do you have the start switch on the bottom of the re set bank?
a few photos and the name of the game is going to help a lot from owners/previous owners

From Mr. Pinball:
Mr. Pinball Tip:
The following information is taken from the August 1973 Gottlieb Jack in the Box manual. This may be helpful when debugging a startup problem with this or other Gottlieb 4-player games from the same period.

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'SB' relay and the total play meter are actuated by switches on motor 1A and motor 4B through a switch that has been closed on 'S' relay.
5. When 'SB' relay is tripped, the reset relays 'Z1', 'Z2', and 'Z3' are energized in sequence to reset the score units and the 'player' unit. 'Z3' opens the circuit to 'Z2' and 'Z1' until all the 4th player score units and the 1,000's and 10,000's score units of the 3rd player are reset through motor switches. When these units are at zero 'Z3' falls out and through a normally closed switch on 'Z3' reset relay 'Z2' is energized. 'Z2' opens the circuit to 'Z1' until all the 2nd player score units and the 10's and 100's score units of the 3rd player are reset through motor switches. When these units are at zero 'Z2' falls out and through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' reset relay 'Z1>' is energized. 'Z1' stays energized until all the 1st player score units are reset through motor switches. At the same time the player unit steps up to its zero position through a motor 1A switch in series with a switch on 'SB' and a run-off switch on the 'player' unit (P5B).
6. The control bank is reset by a switch on motor 3C through a switch on 'U' relay.
7. Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will actuate the 2nd player relay (PB2) through motor 4B switch; the 3rd player relay (PB3) through motor 2C and PB2 switches; and the 4th player relay (PB4) through motor 1D and PB3 switches; in that order.
8. Place the ball in the outhole. The outhole switch completes a circuit to 'E' relay. A witch on 'E' relay completes a circuit to 'F' relay through motor 3C. When 'F' relay energizes it closes a switch that completes the circuit to 'O' relay if the bonus unit is at zero position.
9. 'O' relay locks in through its own switch and a switch on motor 2B.
10. When 'O' relay is energized the motor starts running.
11. Motor 4C actuates the ball return coil (which kicks the ball onto the runway) through a switch on 'O'.
12. The ball is now on the runway and is ready to be put into play.
13. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in 'P' relay. 'P' relay runs the motor. Switches on 'XB', 'ZB', motor 2C, 'P', and motor 1A advances the 'Player' unit the required number of steps determined by the 'Player' unit switches and the player relays (PB2, PB3, PB4).

Look at step 2.

It appears your S relay is not locking on, so inspect/clean the hold switch on the relay and the motor 2B switch.

You will need to consult your schematic for the exact colors etc. on these switches. Without knowing the name and having a copy of the schematic myself, I can't be of any more help.

The Gottlieb reset bank includes several important relays that are crucial to starting a game. This includes the Game Over relay(s), Reset relay, Tilt relay, Start relay, and on four player games, player2, player3, and player4 relays. Make sure all these relay's switch contacts are clean and adjusted. In order to see any reset bank relay switches, you have to loosen the two wing nuts at each end of the reset bank, and "flip up" the bank.

Unfortunately, flipping up the reset bank is deceptive. When the bank is in operating position, many of the switches rest against the reset bar. But when the bank is flipped up, the reset bar is out of the picture. This can give false switch contact adjustment readings. Just be aware of this.

Found here from here ----> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#reset <--more info.

I had one I had to modify (Gottlieb 1959 4/player)

Ignore the part about removed wire modification. ( personal repair i did on that)

IMG_1951_(2).jpg

Yep

The key to it is to see how far you get in the startup sequence. I don't have a Jungle schematic, but for the Jumping Jack, the S relay stays pulled in until motor 2B opens and cuts power to it.

During the time it is closed (on), it should pull in the SB2 relay and start the motor running long enough to reset the reset bank.

You mentioned the SB relay. Do you mean SB2, or is it an SB (in which case I don't have a good schematic handy).

Does the reset bank pull in?

The key to it is to see how far you get in the startup sequence. I don't have a Jungle schematic, but for the Jumping Jack, the S relay stays pulled in until motor 2B opens and cuts power to it.

During the time it is closed (on), it should pull in the SB2 relay and start the motor running long enough to reset the reset bank.

You mentioned the SB relay. Do you mean SB2, or is it an SB (in which case I don't have a good schematic handy).

Does the reset bank pull in?

Must be something with that S relay. Is the start relay supposed to stay locked on when powered up? I'll spend more time on it tomorrow.

The key to it is to see how far you get in the startup sequence. I don't have a Jungle schematic, but for the Jumping Jack, the S relay stays pulled in until motor 2B opens and cuts power to it.

During the time it is closed (on), it should pull in the SB2 relay and start the motor running long enough to reset the reset bank.

You mentioned the SB relay. Do you mean SB2, or is it an SB (in which case I don't have a good schematic handy).

Does the reset bank pull in?

JumpingJack.jpg

The key to it is to see how far you get in the startup sequence. I don't have a Jungle schematic, but for the Jumping Jack, the S relay stays pulled in until motor 2B opens and cuts power to it.

During the time it is closed (on), it should pull in the SB2 relay and start the motor running long enough to reset the reset bank.

You mentioned the SB relay. Do you mean SB2, or is it an SB (in which case I don't have a good schematic handy).

Does the reset bank pull in?

Check the armature on the start relay switch?

So what you said here is that when you do that ^^^^ it will allow you to play a game?

Versus this below which tells me a dirty/misadjusted contact is not getting a signal to the
SB (reset control relay),maybe give it another look.

I pulled the bottom board out and put it on my bench so I could inspect, clean and adjust and literally cleaned every single switch and looked at every solder connection on the motor, reset bank and other relays.

Yep, you can do this 100 times and still have a piece of crap in a visually good switch. EVERY single machine I restored needed additional troubleshooting after going through the procedure you are describing.

Here are your symptoms:
1. The S relay pulls in for a split second
2. The motor spins for only a very small bit
3. The reset bank NEVER pulls in.
4. R (hold) relay pulls in.

At this point, what happens with the SB is irrelevant. You need to get the reset bank to pull in.

S pulls in even momentarily likely means everything along the yellow line is good, this includes the Anti cheat switch and motor 2B.

NOW, the circuit switches over to the "hold" function. This is indicated by the orange line below. The S relay is held in via the circled S switch and the motor 2B as well as the anti cheat switch. But the S relay would never have pulled in the first place if motor 2B or the anti cheat switch was bad. So your MOST LIKELY culprit is the hold switch on the S relay.

BUT the other thing you need to consider is the timing of the switches on the motor. If the motor 2B switch is making crappy contact and bounces off too early, this could be the issue as well. Also, from your photo, I noticed your motor etc. is very shiny. This indicates to me that you may have disassembled the motor switch stacks to clean. If this is the case, you may have misassembled the switch stack on the motor. You may have put the switch dog in the wrong hole or not have it lined up right, but without seeing it in real life, I can't say for sure. You need to make sure the dwell on that switch is adequate.

So, really, I'm like 90% sure the problem lies in the hold switch of the S relay or motor 2B. You may have to jumper this or hunt down with a test light to verify.

JumpingJack4.jpg

Don't know if this helps, but I have a Jungle schematic, and the section you've been showing from the Jumping Jack is identicle except for a V relay, which is listed as the "Replay Button Relay". If I can help more, let me know.

img018.jpg

In this snip-it, V pulls in when the start button is pressed.
A switch on V itself closes, providing power to S.
S pulls in, and seals itself in via a switch on S itself.
Nice...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Chris is saying.. (correct me if im wrong Chris)

There is a V relay which is activated by the start switch.
The V relay must activate before the S relay activates as the V relay switch provides power to the S relay.

When the S relay activates it should hold itself closed via its hold switch which has a orange white wire.

This is the switch i would focus on.

--Jeff

On Super Soccer, once the S Start relay pulls in, it closes contacts to the bank SB1 coil through a motor switch and another S relay pair of NO contacts.. The SB1 and SB2 are series relays, so SB1 coil trips both SB1 and SB2.

Your schematic shows two SB1 contacts in parallel that run the motor.

Once SB1 releases, this pair of contacts both run the motor, along with the continued closure of S relay contacts, which are self-closed (S coil pulls in, closing contacts to the S coil (OR-WH, to, probably, RED-WH, but is off screen to right, probably is power rail to anti-cheat switch and relay board bounce switch.)

Please take another picture of your schematic, showing the SB1 coil, and showing what is to the right of the S and coin circuits (V, etc)... would also be nice to see the schematic where the Z1 switches are shown (or whatever is used to reset the score reels.)

What is needed is "what provides power to the SB1 coil?"

I'd surmise that, on your machine, the SB1 is powered by a motor switch and the S-relay contacts, also, but a picture would answer.

In any event, you should look closely at the contacts on the S-relay.. one, to see if the S-coil "lock in" contacts are doing their job, and, two, to see that the SB1 will release on coil-powered demand... recall, you tripping the SB (SB1 and SB2 pair) lets the game run.

Manually reset the bank.

Take a clip lead, connect one end to the bounce switch RED-WH (25VAC fused hot rail) wire on the bottom board, just in front of the score motor. Tap the signal lead lug (*NOT* THE BLACK WIRE LUG) of the SB1 coil, to see if the SB1 coil will release the SB1-SB2 latch.

Disconnect signal wire from SB1 coil and measure resistance of the coil.

What you should have observed is the SB1/SB2 relay actuator release from reset, latched state... not sparks. You should hear a single crisp 'clink' sound as the latch releases and the leaf actuator bars snap down.

I think your SB1 coil is shorted. Coil number is prolly A-1118. Coil should read about 4 ohms.. PBR has the coils.

You could swap the coil, but 3.5 ohms is *within reason* for SB1. The posted resistance is 3.8 ohms.

Same as step 3, below, if you place ac voltmeter across SB1 coil leads, do you ever see power during startup? You can follow the power from source to coil, as:

Set the ac voltmeter with one clip on BLK (return transformer rail) to:

1. BL-WH on S contacts. Then manually activate S or press start button. Should see voltage as soon as motor runs a cycle. (Motor contacts indeterminate, off right of picture)

2. If voltage at step 1, then move voltmeter clip to OR-GR (either at Motor 3B ,Total Play Meter, or ZB Make/Break common leaf lug). Then manually activate S or press start button. Should see voltage pulse.

3. If voltage at step 2, then move voltmeter clip to signal lug of SB1 (uh, not BLK). Manually activate S or press start. Should see voltage pulse.... you could cut to the chase and do this step first...

If voltage present at step 3, then power is present to the coil, and the coil is somehow not working... dunno how, but 3.8 ohms is correct for that A-1118 coil, and powering that coil should produce a magnetic field that is able to release the actuator plate latch

Happy New Year!

Gonna go play some pinball.

Just a reminder...short your test leads together and get a base ohm reading. You could be getting 4 ohms in the leads/connectors/selector switch on the meter. Get a base reading on the meter, then subtract that from the coil reading to get actual coil resistance.

One or more contacts on that chain of series contacts is either dirty or barely contacting.

You should see 25vac at the coil when SB1 powers on.

Just to the right of the score motor is a "service" jack. It's just a single pin connector with a hole beside the connector that goes nowhere. If you move the motor wire to the "service" jack, then the motor doesn't receive power.

This allows you to manually rotate the score motor without it running a cycle.

I would go back through that chain, with the voltage probe at the rightmost switch leaf, see steady 25vac, and then move left, switch by switch, checking first the right hand side, then the left hand side leaf. When you see voltage drop, clean and/or adjust that switch, then move left on to the next switch pair. When you get to SB1 signal lead, and the voltage is 25vac, then you'll have this problem ironed out.

That you're reading weird/low voltages may be just the the score motor contact pulses are so transient that you really don't see the true voltage.

Clearly, if you get good power to SB1, it unlatches, as it should.

Something I'll pitch here...

I had a quirk happening where my Match lights 0-9 (00..90, but the right digit is dummy) were not coming on.

I probed for voltage down the chain of switches until I got to the bank XB (Last Ball Relay) contacts.

There I found power on the main power line coming to the switch, and the switch was clearly closed. The outbound switch lug had a little clear tubing spaghetti insulator over the lug/wire solder joint. No power appeared at the match wiper of the 00-90 relay (an AS-type), hence, no match number light would come on.

I touched my voltmeter to both leaves of the switch, though, and power was available on both leaves... yet, no power to the AS, which selects one of 10 and turns on just one lamp.

So, there it was.. switch closed, contacts clean, no power leaving the switch.

I lightly tugged the spaghetti tubing insulator with small needle nose pliers.

The leaf lug, with wire solder joint, was fractured clean, from the leaf... an open circuit. The fracture was exactly in line with the phenolic stack spacer.

Not so weird was that a few days before, the match lamps were working, but were dim.

Now I knew what happened. The lug fractured off the leaf, and was barely making contact, until finally, no contact.

This was an easy fix, just carefully pick the stack apart, make up a new leaf with correct contact, clip it to length, reassemble, and solder the wire back... all was well...

But, it did look functional, but was not.

By the way, you can use the 'switch bypass' method of locating a bad switch, as opposed to 'find voltage' method...and you can go from right to left, or left to right...

Right to left:
A plain clip lead is used, one end is clipped to the SB1 signal lead. Each step, cock the SB1 relay with the reset bar. The other end, in this case, is clipped to the:

1) BL+RED contact at Mot? whatever that is, at right hand side of schematic 14 (common to S contacts). Activate the Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at other side of this Mot? contact set.
2) BL+RED contact on S relay. Activate the Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at the wire from Mot? to S relay contacts.
3) BL-WH contact on S relay. Activate the S relay activator AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at this set of contacts on S relay, BL-WH to BL+RED.
4) BL-WH contact on Motor 3B. Activate the S relay activator AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at the wire from S relay contacts BL-WH at S relay to Motor 3B.
5) OR-GR contact on Motor 3B. Activate the S relay activator AND Motor 3B contacts AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at this pair of contacts on the Motor 3B stack, BL-WH to OR-GR.
6) OR-GR contact at bank ZB relay. Activate the S relay activator AND Motor 3B contacts AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at this wire from Motor 3B stack OR-GR to ZB relay OR-GR.
7 ) Move the clip to the other leaf on this same ZB relay pair of contacts. Make sure the ZB relay is tripped so that the shown normally open contacts are closed. Activate the S relay activator AND Motor 3B contacts AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at this pair of contacts on the ZB bank relay.
8 ) Trace the signal wire from SB1 to ZB. Both are on bank, so there's just a jumper wire from SB1 coil signal lug to ZB contacts. The wire color is not denoted on the schematic. Move clip to SB1 coil signal lead. Activate the ZB contacts AND the S relay activator AND Motor 3B contacts AND Mot? contacts. SB1 should release. If not, look at the jumper wire from ZB bank relay to the SB1 signal lug.

The above procedure will have methodically tested every single component from the right side of Mot? (off right picture side) to the SB1 coil.

The Left to right procedure is the reverse of the above.

Alternatively, you can use the clip lead to bypass a single wire or contact set at a time.

_{Post edited by keith20mm : Showed moticon instead of step item}