Between Lucky Hand and Jacks Open, I like LH the best. But JO is no slouch game either.

You can't always say the AAB is better than the replay version or vice versa.

Mike O.
Team-EM

Here is a shot of my Gemini since it seems to be in the news lately.

Mike O.

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A few more of Gemini.

Mike O.

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Close ups of the playfield.

Mike O.

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I like the wedge head rut you are stuck in!

Mike O.
Team-EM

If you are that concerned by a used replacement score motor. They come up on ebay all the time. You should be able to get one for less than $60 at the outside. In fact, here's one right now:

ebay.com link: Gottlieb Crescendo Pinball Score Motor Multi Products spec 658

Many have sold for much less than that:

ebay.com link: sch

Mike O.
Team-EM

Atlantis is the best 70's EM hands down. Grab it if you can.

Mike O.
Team-EM

I had several of this same receiver channel rechromed a little over a year ago. I sent mine to Mike Chestnut in TN. I don't know if he frequents here but his work is outstanding. He is a pinball guy and his own games are exceptional to match his work. He has been doing WPC game habitrail plating for going on a decade now.

He charged me $35 each which included some repair on most of them where there was rust/pitting. They all came back amazing. I did have to cover the shipping on top of that both ways.

Let me know if you need contact information for Mike.

Mike O.
Team-EM

Your handle could be interpreted that you are in the Kansas City area. Is this true?
If so, do you go to either of the monthly pinball leagues?

Mike O.
Team-EM

Not to burst your bubble but 60,000+ plays is a well maintained route game in my book. The condition on the coin inserts and coin door would be your best indicator along with the play meter. Unless they changed the play meter out at some time but then why would you do that to a HUO game.

It's an exceptional example, HUO or not.

Mike O.

Ron,

That sure is a lot of home use play.

Mike O.

Ron,

Which plastic do you need? I have the leftovers from when I put an NOS set on my SW from several years ago. But looking at IPDB I see I am missing the two slingshot(?) plastics.

I have the following:
B-17954 big one on left with five eyes on it. - split near bottom hole but all there.
B-17592 top left. split near hole on blue green end but all there.
A-17591 right side near outlane with one single eye - 100% complete.
A-17593 upper right side - bottom left corner chipped off.

If you need one of these you can have it. Just let me know.

Mike O.
Team-EM

I wasn't at York but I believe the game Don was working on about that time was a Gottlieb Hit n Run.

Mike O.
Team-EM

Nice work on the El Dorado. I would be proud to own that game.

Mike O.
Team-EM

I have owned and played the game. It is a decent player. Definitely better than some of the 70's multiplayer Gottlieb EM's.

I've actually owned two of them. I sold mine last year when I found out how much I could get for it.

Here are some pictures of it.

http://www.weirpinball.com/gallery/index.php/MikeO/Gemini

Mike O.

Is this the same game that Jeff in Indy owned previously?

Very nice game.

What I find interesting is how solid even the 50's games play in HUO condition over what the routed versions play like. The operators really got their money out of them on route in the day.

Mike O.

Hey Tim,

Long time. It's good to hear from you. I'm also glad to see you get into the EM games. It's nice that there is something new to experience.

I like your handle - DryHeat - very appropriate for later in the year. I could live with a little dry heat right now. They are predicting 12"+/- of snow this weekend and highs of 20 where we should be seeing highs of 50.

Mike O.

Don Murphy had the playfield, plastics, and instruction cards. It was probably 8-9 years ago. Surprisingly some of the playfields were readily available. I got his last Gemini Playfield. The right timing I guess. I believe he had Golden Arrow and Hit the Deck playfields also that I passed on.

The backglass came from Mayfair. It was not perfect but was worlds better than what came in the game.

I was only on the tail end of the last of some of the NOS parts.

Mike O.

I know of a HUO Sittin Pretty out in California. The game played very solid and looked gorgeous.

I owned a HUO Gottlieb Mustang for about a week. It played great but this title does nothing for me.

Mike O.

Was at a friend's house tonight putting a new plastic set in his Black Knight. His real love is EM's. He humored me letting me take a couple of pictures.

Not in the pictures are another handful of 60's wedgeheads - Central Park, Sing Along, and Ice Revue.

Mike O.

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Thanks, Ken. It wasn't so much fun as frustrating. Getting the plastics into Black Knight was uneventful. But he had just finished shopping his Buckaroo which turned out great so I was playing a bunch of games on it. Looks great and plays even better - except I'm finding it hard to like Buckaroo. His game plays like a dream but it is hard as hell to hit the roto targets and win getting four in a row.

Mike O.

Getting the 4 was not that much of a challenge. On one game I got it on the drain. On others I was able to hit it. But being able to consistently hit other numbers was a real challenge. The openings at the roto numbers are too small and at the outlines are too big. I had a better chance of getting an A-B-C-D special than getting a four in a row replay.

I've owned a couple of decent Spin Outs, AKA the poor man's Buckaroo. From a play standpoint I like it better. The openings are fair. The shots through the upper side lanes flow better making the roto spins safer and easier. No way is it as pleasing to the eyes. Just seems more balanced.

Mike O.

Thanks, Dirt. I'll ask Kevin if he has the posts positioned for the largest opening possible on the roto. Every little bit helps.

Mike O.

Nice pick up Dane. Will we be seeing another "Super Shopping" thread? I look forward to it.

The cabinet is fixable to make it solid. Litterally making some thin strips and gluing them to the portion that is left to hold the bottom panel in.

While the webbing on the head is more dense, that was par for the methods they used back then. Sometimes it was heavy and sometimes it was light.

Mike O.

Yes.

BTW, did Lonnie introduce us at TPF this weekend?

Mike O.

Nice score. And they look to be pretty decent condition. You have a lot of fun in your future.

Mike O.

To each his own.

Mike O.

Here are pictures of a Big Casino that I owned about 10 years ago. It looks nicer than it plays. Your hands get worn out grunching the game to keep the balls from draining through the lanes between the flippers.
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Mike O.

Nice score on the Capersville. Looks like a fun game.

Would you be offended if we call it the poor man's Fireball?

Mike O.

Nice line up. I like your taste in games.

I've been trying to get the spinner to work/score right on my Outer Space lately and am anxious to play it again and seeing yours motivates me all the more to get it right.

Mike O.

So you got to see the hearse hauler?

That looks like a nice example of that game.

My first game was and Out of Sight, the two player versiOn of Far Out.

Have fun with it.

Mike O.

I noticed Dirt commented how lucky you are to have the top drop target playfield plastic in one piece. If you want to keep it that way I recommend you double ring behind the drop targets. You will thank me later.

Also, I had Mike replate a half dozen of the playfield glass receiver channels a couple years ago. I had him chrome plate them thinking that is what original was. Got them home and found they were originally nickel plated. The chrome plating stands out compared to an original. You mention nickel plating above. Is he going to nickel plate it for you? If so, I may send mine back and have them redone in nickel.

BTW, nice work on your game.

Mike O.

Be patient. The right buyer will come along.

So when did you get a K&Q?

I did a full playfield swap on my Gold Strike the last couple of weeks. Found a fully populated GS playfield several years ago that had incurred a small fire on the bottom side and was taken out of service early in its life. I'd say the playfield it replaced was an 8 and this one is a 9.5. Turned out great.

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I have always struggled with the new ones that PBR sells and can't figure out the best approach to take. The new ones always struck me as being just a little too small in hole diameter to fit correctly on the posts and went on extremely hard - so much so that I was afraid I might over torque the post. For that reason I have never used new ones. I've had enough games come through here over the years that I have replaced the original PAL nuts with the rubber nuts on some of the games I've sold so I have some original stock for my keeper games.

That all said, using the 5/16 nut driver like CactusJack mentioned, I wonder if a PAL nut was originally intended to just be pushed straight down on the post for the first application. This would deform the inner race of the nut and possibly open it up so that when taking it off it would not be so tight. I've not tried this method but have wondered if it has any merit.

Mike O.

I had a Surf Side a dozen years ago.

The upper flippers and roto target, while unconventional, work pretty well together. It's one of the better multiplayer games from this era.

Did you repaint the cabinet? If so, exceptional work. And the shop job isn't too shabby either.

Pop A Card was the game that got me hooked on pinball. Learning the bounces off the slings is critical to do well on this game. I have a Pop A Card also and it kicks my ass so badly I don't want to play it. I need some advice on how to adjust the set up to make it more balanced.

Mike O.

I can't explain how addictive Drop A Card was back in the day, and still is to this day. Even though it was more random than not, getting the upper specials was a treat every time.

That looks kind of familiar.parents bsmt.JPG

That's a pretty nice 300 you have there. I wouldn't worry about the spots at the kickout holes or the backglass(other than finding a better backglass to replace this one with).

Having to take what is arguably in 95%+ condition and get that extra 5% out of it is not what this hobby is about.

Keep the playfield clean and waxed, rebuild mechanisms as needed to get it to play better, keep a new ball in it and play it. Have fun.

This just returned to roost after about 9 years in a friend's basement. Boilerman's cabinet repaint the other day has me jonesing for his skill set to refurb my cabinet. I'll find the time one day.

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It's not really that hard.

Strip the topside of the existing playfield and clean and polish and rebuild those parts as necessary.

Flip it over and strip the bottom side of everything that is left. Pull or cut the ground braid staples but leave the ground braid in place (you will thank yourself for this one) and shift the glob of harness and parts to a piece of cardboard and then from the cardboard to the new playfield. Screw items back in one at a time. You'll be surprised how fast it can go.

The biggest thing is have all of your parts ready to go whether they be replacement, polish the existing, rebuild the existing, refinish the wood side rails, etc. That way all you are distracted with is getting each part back into its position on the new playfield.

As for the ground braid, staple it back down where necessary. You won't have to staple everywhere they did at the factory because the solder connections(that weren't there yet when they laid the braid down at the factory) will hold a lot of it in place.

So what happened?

So Dan made it back to SoCal.

Something tells me you will run out of booze before he beats Big Daddy.

So does that make EM #2?

Sky Jump isn't the best wedge head but it's still a great game. Mine does have some sentimental attachment. I give it more credit than most do.

From an engineering/geometry standpoint, there are a few things to consider here.

1. The second, lower, ring closes the gap, just the smallest bit, between the flippers. So advantage to players' scores.
2. What I have noticed is that the original ring position sits above the ball centerline. Placing the second ring causes the flipper to strike the ball at or just below the ball centerline.
3. Not sure how much the geometry/physics come into play here but with only the ring installed in the original ring position I would expect a hit to the ball to push the ball into the playfield at the same time it is pushing the ball up the playfield. Obviously we see reams of evidence that this downward radiant of force has not caused overly intrusive damage to the playfield finish - among other things capable operators maintained their games so this did not occur. But a theory could be made that putting the contact point at or below the ball centerline can only improve the playfield durability.

I reshot the pink/purple when I had mine with a more brilliant purple because that was the best match available in a rattle can. Frankly the deeper shade went very well with the playfield and backglass colors.

Nice work on finding the replacement Sea Ray plastics. They are a huge improvement.

As for trying to move the standoffs from your old plastics to your new plastics, I'd first try your hand at polishing up the standoff from the new plastics to see if you can make them shine well enough. Removing and reinstalling the standoffs from the old plastics does not come without risks.

If you have the new plastics installed with the standoff that came with them in place your playfield looks amazing.

New bumper caps and it will be the icing on the cake.

Have fun with Sea Ray - it is a challenging game.

Use Mother's Mag Polish in the paste form and they will turn out exceptional. You'll wonder why you even considered swapping them over.

Dave - any chance the paint for those ACD's are rattle can colors? I'd like to touch up the head cabinet I got from you.

You're slipping Dirt. $2K for an ED COG doesn't hold much interest in any market.

My mistake. My apologies to Dirt.

Mike O.

If the pictures are decent I'd look at it for that price if I was looking for one.

Nice Collection.

Nice work. That came out great.

That's a lot of love applied to a game you plan to sell. Someone is going to have a really nice game.

A bit more suggestive perhaps?

My understanding is they added two more dummy score reels on the right.

Are we going to get to play your Central Park at TPF this month, Dan?

Mine is doubled. I've seen too many Jacks Open/Lucky Hand broken drop target plastics to not double ring it.

I go by experience also. Where the drop targets are a square shot from the flippers, like the upper drop targets on Countdown, they get double rings. Where they are glancing shots, like the lower drop targets on Countdown, they can survive with single rings.

Other examples where double rings are indicated, as witnessed by the number of broken plastics at these locations, is the drop targets on Sky Jump and Big Brave/Indian.

I go conservative and double ring most of my Gottlieb drop target banks. Keep in mind I'm also running 99% exclusively original drop targets also.

Nice game, Dan. I owned a Surf Side 15 years ago. The upper flippers and the roto target work well together. I'd go as far as saying it was the best Gottlieb multiplayer from the last half of the 60's.

Found it in western MI where my parents live. There must have been something in the water there. Four of the first games we found in that area were all great water related titles. Sea Ray, Surf Side, Surfer, and Fathom.

Have fun with it.

There's not much I've found in 60's multiplayer that has drawn me in enough to own.

Two games that I shopped out that stuck with me are Airport and Dodge City.

Dodge City is kept interesting and balanced with the kick out holes changing value and being worth 10 times when lit.

Airport kept my attention as well and I'm not normally a fan of vari target games. The vari target and its point scoring were a good mix of risk versus reward balanced with the other game scoring.

If you get a chance to play one play it.

Majorettes uses a lot of nudging and is a difficult AAB but is very satisfying when you earn extra balls.

Because of the nudging my hands get sore and I replaced the original lock bar with end caps with a 70's lock bar to make it easier on my hands.

I'm not a fan of roto target games. So for me, I would choose Majorettes.

Dan - go to town with Mothers Mag Polish in paste form. $5 at Walmart or most any auto parts store. It will be all you need to bring a shine to that bell - that and some elbo grease. image.jpg

Nice choice/find Ken. I heartily approve.

You can always sand/polish a rusty hinge to make it look better.

So I'm leaving town for work for three days tomorrow and I should be packing but I'm really not in the mood so I decide to play a few games of Atlantis to get me motivated.

I'm playing and not really getting anywhere and I'm really working the game and getting even less. So after about ten games or so I decide to stop trying so hard and let it flow. The second game into this loose mode I'm starting to flow and at the fifth ball I just start hitting on all cylinders and get special and hit a couple replays right away.

I'm thinking I should trap the ball and break out my phone and take a picture to post tonight when the ball decided balance on a center lane wire form in the bagatelle area. You can see it in the picture below. I couldn't have planned it better.

I stop and take my picture and go back to my game. I finished with 109K points and a half dozen replays and all is well with the world.

Atlantis can hand you your ass but when you hand it back its a great feeling of accomplishment.

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Same here, Dan.

You seemed to be in a pinball funk looking for your next great game. I wish you luck in your search. Another game always comes along.

Scuba game play is good for a multiplayer. I don't have much time in on one personally but it gets decent reviews. The hard part about Scuba is finding one with a decent playfield and backglass. The ones I've seen seem to have gotten played a lot on route and the coloring and layout make the playfields prone to wear.

I have one in my parents basement in Michigan but have not gotten it up and running yet. It's about a 7 all around.

Kind of stuck in a rut right now.

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Abra Ca Dabra heads.

Yes, one of those is the cabinet you sent me.

I actually had accumulated two ACD's. One with a rough head and backglass and another with a great cabinet. The plan was to make the best of two into one. Then a third ACD showed up in exceptional condition. The third will be my keeper with only 29k plays on the meter. The best of the original two are just now getting play tested before it ships off to a collector in the northwest.

The funny part of the story is the third game which will be my keeper came with strings attached. I had to also buy his Asteroids upright video, a jukebox, a cheesy worn out foosball table, and a stop light. It took almost a year to get the deal consummated because he was asking way to much for the package deal and took that long for us to agree on price. And I still paid a premium for the ACD.

My thoughts exactly.

If original that is the nicest Gulfstream I've seen since back in the day.

Well done.

That's a game you don't see every day.

If you are talking a discreet skill shot then there are limited Gottlieb EM games that offer this. The examples that come to mind quickly are both Soccer/Super Soccer and Top Score/300 where if you hit the rollover at the top a stand up target lights for a Special if you hit it before scoring any points.

But, to me, the skill shot on any EM is the shot that gets you more points than the other alternatives. While not a disappearing skill shot, they are skill shots nonetheless.

Here are several examples:

1. On Surfer/Surf Champ one rollover lane is lit for 2 bonus where the unlit lanes provide only one bonus. To me the lit lane is the skill shot.

2. On Jumping Jack/Jack in the Box the lit hole is the skill shot. It also ups the value of drop targets/bonus by 10x.

3. On Spirit of 76/Pioneer there is a less obvious skill shot which is the center C rollover since that is the only place on the game you can get it. It doesn't cry out skill shot but it is the skill shot nonetheless.

4. On Quick Draw/Fast Draw either the A or C top rollover is the skill shot to me due to the fact that the B rollover is duplicated at the inner rollover lanes above the flippers. These B lanes are much safer to get than the adjacent A and C return lanes because any ball that hits at the A or C return lanes can rattle into the respective outlane.

5. On Drop a Card one of the two lanes at the top is lit for extra points.

6. On Slick Chick your skill shot is one of the top lanes for SLICK or CHICK and 50 points. If you already have SLICK as you plunge the next ball the CHICK lane is your skill shot and vice versa.

7. On any single player Gottlieb wedgehead where you are trying to unlight a letter or number at the top to complete a sequence the skill shot is a letter/number that you need. As you collect/unlight the letters/numbers the remaining letters/numbers become your skill shots. Ice Revue and North Star and Crosstown and.......

I'm ready for the controversy to fly now.

Nice start.

Mr. Obvious chiming in here but either the legs on TA and B are too tall(should be 27.5") or the legs on FL are short (should be 31").

I don't ever have a problem with bent legs, broken wood, or broken glass when I ship a game.

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Not that the moving guys aren't nice capable people, they are at my place 10 minutes tops on a pick up.

You're welcome, Larry.

Here is the start of the finish. My Ken Head repainted North Star cabinet came home today.

Thanks, Ken!!

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Most of my games are original condition. This one made the decision easy because the cabinet was painted over in mildly slathered on white enamel. There was no recovering the original finish so a quality repaint was a no brainer.

Had I found a second North Star with a decent original cabinet I would have just swapped them out. That's how my Slick Chick evolved.

The flippers are the horizontal rings just above the out hole. Funny how they created their own configuration after the main manufacturers came out with the original 2" flipper design. Kind of like Gottlieb and Williams shared but United was not in the club.

The current queue.

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Left to right.

Outer Space
North Star
Kings & Queens
Crosstown

Dan - I thought you already traded Slick Chick away around TPF? Did it come back home to roost?

You should have no problem finding a willing trader of zipper flipper game(s) for your SC.