(Topic ID: 325356)

EM schematic help

By barakawins

1 year ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Garrett
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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coin-lockout-coil-2-sm (resized).jpg
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#1 1 year ago

Hi all,

I'm working on a 1975 Bally Wizard. I’m a little confused on how to set the relay contacts for the 5000 point relay. I understand that the relay should be normally open based on the schematics. However on the same line there is a closed contact at 10c scm. What does this mean?

97CD4282-1BF4-419D-AF78-038742EABC90 (resized).jpeg97CD4282-1BF4-419D-AF78-038742EABC90 (resized).jpeg
#2 1 year ago

It’s a switch on the score motor.

That switch will open when the score motor is running, causing the 5000 relay to de-energize (as its job will be complete).

There may be a panel on the schematic showing the score motor details you can reference.

The 5000 target will initially energize the 5000 relay. The relay is then held open by the 5000 relay switch (normally open but now closed when the relay is energized) until the aforementioned score motor switch opens and releases it.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

It’s a switch on the score motor.
That switch will open when the score motor is running, causing the 5000 relay to de-energize (as its job will be complete).
There may be a panel on the schematic showing the score motor details you can reference.

ah ok. So all switches on the 5000 relay should be open then right?

#4 1 year ago

That's a normally closed (NC) score motor switch at score motor position 10C. The 5000 point relay switch in the image is a "lock" switch that will send continuous power to the 5000 relay coil when it's initially energized from another circuit switch, which would be from the 5000 target switch. As soon as the 10C score motor switch opens, it will turn off power to the 5000 relay coil, and, in turn, will open the 5000 point relay switch.

#5 1 year ago

You can tell just by looking at how the switches are stacked, and moving the relay, what state they “should” be in. Absent a manual documenting it, the only way to know for sure is to track down every switch on the schematic.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

You can tell just by looking at how the switches are stacked, and moving the relay, what state they “should” be in. Absent a manual documenting it, the only way to know for sure is to track down every switch on the schematic.

Thanks!

#7 1 year ago

The Bally Score Motor switch decoder ring, to locate Score Motor switches, is at:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sky-kings-power-free-play-and-top-hole-issue#post-4457680

/Mark

#8 1 year ago

If you work your way over to the 1000 point relay you will also see another switch on the 5000 point relay which is NO. When the 5000 point relay is activated it becomes locked on by the switch discussed above until the switch on score motor disc 10 opens from its NC position. The design of that disc 10 is such that this switch won’t open until the score motor is almost finished with its rotation. In-line with the switch connected to the 1000 point relay you will see another NO score motor switch on disc 2 in that same circuit. Disc 2 has 5 nubs on it that are positioned before that disc 10 switch, so therefore that disc 2 NO switch will close 5 times, hitting the 1000 point relay 5 times and that’s the classic 5000 point scoring circuit.

There is another NO switch on the 5000 point relay that is in line with the score motor, so when it closes that’s what triggers the score motor to turn.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

If you work your way over to the 1000 point relay you will also see another switch on the 5000 point relay which is NO. When the 5000 point relay is activated it becomes locked on by the switch discussed above until the switch on score motor disc 10 opens from its NC position. The design of that disc 10 is such that this switch won’t open until the score motor is almost finished with its rotation. In-line with the switch connected to the 1000 point relay you will see another NO score motor switch on disc 2 in that same circuit. Disc 2 has 5 nubs on it that are positioned before that disc 10 switch, so therefore that disc 2 NO switch will close 5 times, hitting the 1000 point relay 5 times and that’s the classic 5000 point scoring circuit.
There is another NO switch on the 5000 point relay that is in line with the score motor, so when it closes that’s what triggers the score motor to turn.

Thanks for all this info. I'm going to dig into this deeper after received my flex stone to clean the contacts. 2000 grit sand paper didn't do the job and I'm not getting the results I need.

#10 1 year ago

OK. Turns out the 5000 point relay wasn't screwed down at all. Screw missing. Installed new screw and the solenoid pulls as it should now. I do have one question, the lock out coil is buzzing, aside from snipping the wires, is there a way to fix this so it doesn't buzz?

#11 1 year ago

I just snip them. The old coils are usually pretty burnt up. You can replace it if need be.

#12 1 year ago

I agree, give the poor thing a rest. If you are on free play and not using quarters, you don't need it. Even if you are using quarters, you still don't really need it, since you can open the door any time (but you will need to force over the reject lever arm if its in there). I like to unsolder the wires to the relay and cap them, that's easy to reverse in the future if you want to.

Here's the one from my Bon Voyage, it has served its time nobly.

coin-lockout-coil-2-sm (resized).jpgcoin-lockout-coil-2-sm (resized).jpg

#13 1 year ago

I think the consensus is snip them. Do you cap them or just snip and tuck away behind the coil?

#14 1 year ago

Cap for safety

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