(Topic ID: 40695)

EM Resto: Black rings around inserts...Sharpie, paint, or other?

By Old_Hutch

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by ne1
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

2013-02-14_13.45.56.jpg
2013-02-14_13.57.36.jpg
soccer_22.jpg

#1 11 years ago

I'm getting set to do cleaning, rubbers, bulbs, etc. on Soccer. I wouldn't mind touching up some of the black rings around some of the inserts before waxing. This machine will never be an heirloom, hopefully just a nice player's machine. I'd like to make it as nice as I can without going crazy. I've seen a couple of mentions of using a Sharpie for things like this, and I've seen some "Sharpie like" pens that say they dispense paint, which looks to be oil based acrylic. I will be buying some water based acrylic for backglass touchup after I Krylon triple thick it. So I'm hoping to get some insight/recommendations from some of you folks that have previous experience...Would you recommend Sharpie, paint dispensing markers, or attempting to brush these rings? Thanks in advance for any input.

Hutch

soccer_22.jpgsoccer_22.jpg

#2 11 years ago
Quoted from Old_Hutch:

I've seen a couple of mentions of using a Sharpie for things like this, and I've seen some "Sharpie like" pens that say they dispense paint, which looks to be oil based acrylic.

I use an Acrylic black fine point paint pen (that to me is anything but fine) but works well on the inserts. For real fine lines an Ultra fine tip Sharpie does the trick for the Playfield lines that were wiped away by the ball. Having a small ruler handy to keep the lines straight is a must.

Ken

#3 11 years ago

Wouldn't enamel wear less?

#4 11 years ago

If you dont have a steady hand the paint pens will work - stay away from the 'ink' ones & use the 'paint' pens. personally I have no love for the steel point type never could get them to work right

#5 11 years ago

NEVER USE A SHARPIE ON A PLAYFIELD, EVER!

If you, or the poor sucker who buys the game from you, ever decides to protect it by clearcoating, the Sharpie runs into the clearcoat, ruining it.

Don't use Testor's enamel paints either, they do the same thing.

Use acrylic paints (like Createx), or make some water slide decals.

#6 11 years ago

I saw that coming- I knew the Vid-man was gonna get you! Anyway, I use the dreaded....craft paint. Even though I know it's not as good as Createx, it works great here as it still looks pretty black to me-esp. after filling the cupped inserts and a few coats of Varathane. That being said, I have learned the hard way to avoid sharpies....

#7 11 years ago

What vid said.
Is you're gonna clear I would go water slide decal or acrylic paint.

-Jeff

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

NEVER USE A SHARPIE ON A PLAYFIELD, EVER!
If you, or the poor sucker who buys the game from you, ever decides to protect it by clearcoating, the Sharpie runs into the clearcoat, ruining it.
Don't use Testor's enamel paints either, they do the same thing.
Use acrylic paints (like Createx), or make some water slide decals.

I have a machine that I bought last year and started working on before I read about using acrylic paints on this forum. Unfortunately, I used yellow enamel paint to repaint worn areas around the pop bumpers and black enamel to repaint the rings around the inserts. Is Varathane going to cause the paint to run, the same as auto clearcoat? Will these areas run if I use a light spray of Varathane to protect the playfield? If Varathane is a problem, can I paint OVER the enamel with acrylic and stop this from happening? Is there anything else I can use to coat the playfield that won't cause the enamel areas to run?

Post edited by pabilo21 : another question added

#9 11 years ago

I can't believe nobody has has come through with mylar sheets in various sizes of circles. How great would that be - send me a sheet of 1" and a sheet of 1.5" to finish a playfield. Too bad I suck at graphics or I'd do it.

Frank

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from pabilo21:

Unfortunately, I used yellow enamel paint to repaint worn areas around the pop bumpers and black enamel to repaint the rings around the inserts. Is Varathane going to cause the paint to run, the same as auto clearcoat?

Yes, although not a bad as 2 part iso.

Quoted from pabilo21:

If Varathane is a problem, can I paint OVER the enamel with acrylic and stop this from happening?

No, that has been tried.

Your best bet is that if the enamel is really old, it may be completely cured.

Last year I cleared a quad-copter drone that a guy had sprayed with enamel, BUT the enamel was a year old. I dusted it with an almost dry coat, then 10 minutes later another super dry coat, then finally, a nice coat.

I believe that 2 things worked in our favor on that drone.

1. The enamel was very thin because it was sprayed on.
2. The enamel was old. Had it only been a few months old, I'm sure it would have gone south.

#11 11 years ago

Maybe I just need to put several coats of wax on the playfield and use it.

#12 11 years ago

If the outside of the ring is intact, I will touch it up by hand with Liquitex acrylics. If not, I use a variation of this method:

https://picasaweb.google.com/118003252068396696045/PopACircle

Usually, now I find the center of the circle by putting down a small piece of tape and striking 4 arcs from the edge of the circle. This will locate the center. Then I put down friscut and cut the circle using the center that I just found. I also bought a few nice compasses on flea bay.

I have yet to find a paint marker that doesn't bleed under a cc, especially a 2 part auto clear.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from newmantjn:

If the outside of the ring is intact, I will touch it up by hand with Liquitex acrylics. If not, I use a variation of this method:
https://picasaweb.google.com/118003252068396696045/PopACircle
Usually, now I find the center of the circle by putting down a small piece of tape and striking 4 arcs from the edge of the circle. This will locate the center. Then I put down friscut and cut the circle using the center that I just found. I also bought a few nice compasses on flea bay.
I have yet to find a paint marker that doesn't bleed under a cc, especially a 2 part auto clear.

nice.

#14 11 years ago

Thanks very much for all of your input. I will not use a Sharpie, I promise vid. I'm not planning to clear, but I don't want to do anything that would hose it up so that it couldn't be cleared successfully in the future either.

I did see that Liquitex is coming out with paint markers in March.
http://www.liquitex.com/paintmarkers/
Guess I'm not sure if you guys think the paint quality in markers causes running when you cc, or if it's the application method of a marker that makes it less permanent.

Thanks newmantjn for the circle masking tutorial, if I don't use it this time, I'll definitely save it for future reference.

I'm buying an acrylic paint set anyway to touch up the backglass after I triple thick, so I'll take a hard look at these insert rings and see if I feel comfortable freehanding it.

Quoted from vid1900:

se acrylic paints (like Createx), or make some water slide decals.

I do have an interest in the water slide decals, if not for this application, then for possible future applications. Not trying to be lazy, but if there is any good info that you folks already have I would appreciate it.

If I do go with water based acrylic paint, do you guys think it is robust enough to hold up with a few coats of wax over it, or should I plan on coating it with varathane or something similar after it cures?

Thanks again,
Hutch

#15 11 years ago
Quoted from Old_Hutch:

I did see that Liquitex is coming out with paint markers in March.
http://www.liquitex.com/paintmarkers/

Great News!

Hopefully they make a truly fine point paint pen as I have not found one yet.

Ken

#16 11 years ago

I'm using a vinyl cutter to make stencils. First, after measuring, drawing, remeasuring, redrawing, etc., I came up with this:

2013-02-14_13.57.36.jpg2013-02-14_13.57.36.jpg

#17 11 years ago

After cutting, it looks like this:

2013-02-14_13.45.56.jpg2013-02-14_13.45.56.jpg

#18 11 years ago

I bought a bunch of circle punches in various diameters, and I use these to create templates with masking tape or frisket. I paint with Liquitex black and a fine-tipped paintbrush.

Example:

http://www.amazon.com/EK-Success-Shapers-1-Inch-Nesting/dp/B00161O9QI/ref=sr_1_4

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from Old_Hutch:

I do have an interest in the water slide decals, if not for this application, then for possible future applications. Not trying to be lazy, but if there is any good info that you folks already have I would appreciate it.

There is some info on page 3 of this post, but a complete guide to waterslide is coming up within the week.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from Old_Hutch:

If I do go with water based acrylic paint, do you guys think it is robust enough to hold up with a few coats of wax over it, or should I plan on coating it with varathane or something similar after it cures?

It will hold up for a while, especially with a brand new ball in the game.

But if you want "forever" you are going to need to clear the playfield.

Don't use Varathane, or any other water or oil based clear - these kill the "punch" of the art because they don't dry totally clear (and oil tends to yellow). ALWAYS use 2 part auto clear coat.

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Don't use Varathane, or any other water or oil based clear - these kill the "punch" of the art because they don't dry totally clear (and oil tends to yellow). ALWAYS use 2 part auto clear coat

For ***very*** small areas, I will spot clear with acrylic lacquer, if that was original to the machine, or for ****very****very**** small, a quick swipe with clear nail polish, which is essentially lacquer.

Another option for very small areas is to slap some mylar on it. The removable stuff is best, but it appears Mark Clayton is still not up to speed since his illness. You can use clear vinyl laminating film as a removable mylar as well.

A total clear coat is the best overall solution, if it is required.

#22 11 years ago
Quoted from johninc:

I'm using a vinyl cutter to make stencils. First, after measuring, drawing, remeasuring, redrawing, etc., I came up with this

What is the material you are using, exactly?

How do you position it? This looks promising. I think the cutter may be overkill and I would likely use my cutting compass, but I would like to maybe try it with the material you use.

Thanks.

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Don't use Varathane, or any other water or oil based clear - these kill the "punch" of the art because they don't dry totally clear (and oil tends to yellow). ALWAYS use 2 part auto clear coat.

I disagree.

Varathane is the closet match you will get to the original lacquer clear coat from a can on an EM with exceptions such as some import games (Sonic, Playmatic, etc). The art looks great when Varathane is applied properly as well.

I have seen games that are 50+ years old look great with the original finish because the Playfield was always waxed and ball changed out when needed. Varathane should hold up as well if taken care of as the original lacquer finish. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty darn good to me. The original lacquer Clearcoat tends to yellow as well but hard to tell if it is the finish itself or 50 years of being on location with nicotine from smoking patrons.

An Automotive Clear Coat will make a game made in the USA faster, shinier, resist yellowing, sound and play different than the original Clearcoat or Varathane on the Playfield.

I am NOT saying do not use an automotive Clearcoat as it does have the superior finish, durability, and benefits of increased ball speed, but be aware that it will not return the Originality of the Playfield (play and feel) and is just another option.

Personally I like both as I tend to like faster than original ball speed for an EM and tend to install Orange Dot Coils in my Gottliebs.

Ken

#24 11 years ago

It's vinyl, used for making signs and crafty stuff. For instance, http://store.scrapbook.com/qk-silhvinblk.html

To position it, cover it wth transfer paper (like frisket, which is what I use because I have it), pull the vinyl up off of the backing, eyeball it and place it down where you need it, then pull off the transfer paper. This keeps the circles concentric, and the keylines even.

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It will hold up for a while, especially with a brand new ball in the game.

I agree.

Small acrylic paint touch ups I have done and not clear coated look the same over a year later and will most likely last a very long time .

Always waxing and keeping your ball clean is the key to a long lasting EM Playfield, however if you have a poor maintenance routine then it would be best to Clear coat over the touch ups.

Ken

#26 11 years ago

I agree with Ken about the use of Varathane vs. Auto clears on EMs. In the EM (esp. Gottlieb) world, I prefer a game to look and play more like original. Auto clears I have seen on EMs at shows just look and play different. I even go as far as to leave my Varathane finish a bit textured, by sanding with the grain (vertically) to mimick the original wood grain. I still go up to 1000 grit, but there are some sand scratches that act as the original would keeping the ball from 'skidding' and even allowing a bit more 'english'/spin at times. Auto clear is obviously superior for it's durabilty, protection of artwork, etc. but I prefer that on modern games.

#27 11 years ago

I use Fiskars Circle Cutter. Works great for cutting masking material. It's faster and easier than a compass and only costs about $15.

http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-93807097-Circle-Cutter-Replacement/dp/B0006HUJ0S

#30 11 years ago

WOW!! Overwhelming response. Thanks to everyone for all of the information, opinions, and resources.

I need to be honest here, hope it doesn't disappoint anybody, but I don't know if this machine is a keeper yet, and I would not be willing to put in the amount of time and effort that some of you have put into machines unless I was sure that it is a keeper.

This was my first EM. It's a beater that I bought because it was cheap, local, and in decent shape. I bought it with the idea that I could cut my teeth with this machine, so if and when I got the "coveted" EM, I would have enough experience to feel confident working on it. For my history with it, here is a post when I first picked it up.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-1st-em-19720-small-piece-of-history-included

I've got it running good mechanically, so now it's time to do all of the playfield maintenance that hasn't been done to it for years, or decades. I think at this point I'm going to everything that I can do to it to make it a nice player's machine, but avoid doing anything to it that could make a full restoration, including clearcoat, more difficult. That's in case I decide it's a keeper, or if I decide it's not, so the next owner down the line won't have any unforseen problems if they decide to do a total restoration.

I thought I would need to get a set of primary acrylics and try to mix for color matches, but after reading Cliffy's link, maybe I can find near matches already mixed. I'm going to try to paint the insert rings that are dogged up freehand or make templates, and there are two gudges (I know it's not a real word but it's a real word to me) from the kickout holes. After painting, I'll cover the insert rings with wax and cover the kickout hole gudges with mylar and play the heck out of this pin. If I decide it's a keeper, you folks have provided enough info that I would feel pretty confident taking this on as a full restoration.

Thanks again to everyone for all of your good responses!

Hutch

#31 11 years ago

I used acrylic paint with a toothpick on mine. Turned out very nice.

#32 11 years ago
Quoted from Old_Hutch:

I need to be honest here, hope it doesn't disappoint anybody, but I don't know if this machine is a keeper yet, and I would not be willing to put in the amount of time and effort that some of you have put into machines unless I was sure that it is a keeper.

The nice thing is it's here for other people like me who are curious and don't have to start another thread now.

#33 11 years ago

Acrylic paints on mine as well. Have a really nice small brush to work with.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
Protection
From: $ 4.99
Cabinet - Decals
The Pinball Scientist
Decals
From: $ 12.99
Cabinet - Other
The Pinball Scientist
Other
$ 9.99
Cabinet - Other
Maine Home Recreation
Other
$ 15.00
Cabinet Parts
Special When Lit
Cabinet parts
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-resto-black-rings-around-insertssharpie-paint-or-other and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.