(Topic ID: 219468)

EM Puzzle: Williams 4-player tilt switch. Let's fix it.

By NicoVolta

5 years ago


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  • 139 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by CactusJack
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider marvin.
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#82 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Williams also produced solid state machines for a decade across multiple systems with a major design flaw in the power supply that could set your transformer on fire, and so many other things. The problem is pretty obvious, as is the answer.

True, but in that case it was saving them money by skipping 2 screws, 2 fuse folders, 2 fuses, and 4 extra solder points; plus labor. This individually does not amount to much per game but over 100,000 or so games odes add to the bottom line. So why fix it if its making them money and is rarely a problem. In this case it was costing williams money to keep adding a "useless" switch that could also cause problems. I think there's gotta be a reason to keep it in the design all that time. Too lazy to change does not overrule the bean-counters.

#90 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Why'd they fix it later then?

who knows, relatively frequent issues, UL certification, could be anything.

#91 5 years ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Bean-counting and second-guessing has nothing to do with it. This is simply a technical question being solicited for peer review. If Williams had a good reason for installing this switch, then what is it?
I don't see one.
I -do- see an extremely good reason -not- to do it.
With this one switch failure, at least seven coils can fry. Or more.
Figuring out what Norm Clark had in mind 52 years ago won't be possible, as he is sadly no longer with us. Then again, we don't know if he personally drew up that portion of the schematic.
Older games show the evolution of the tilt relay function. One switch used to be the "catch all"... then another was installed further up the line for the relays. But the old location remained in place.
Why?
At this juncture, two philosophies have emerged:
A) I don't know what Williams had in mind, but they must have known what they were doing despite the potential risk.
B) Williams accidentally overlooked a potential safety issue which typically isn't a problem, but when it is, it's a really big one.
I'm in camp B. Evidence to the contrary will move me to A, if it exists.

Of course bean counting isn't why the "extra" switch is in there. If it served no purpose the bean counters would have eliminated it. The fact they did not eliminate it points to it having a purpose.

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Jumper the switch temporarily and put the machine through it's paces for a while. I'd tilt it more than occasionally though to check what, if anything this modification has done. If no adverse effects occur, permanently jumper the switch, but note it on the schematic.
Nic has done us a service by pointing out this potential issue. Take it or leave it. If he receives similar flak in the future, he might just decide to keep his findings to himself, rather than sharing them here. He has his head buried in these games more than probably eighty percent of us here, so I consider his contributions to be valuable. Thanks, Nic.

I'm not giving him flak, I'm just being the devils advocate. I am nowhere near an expert on EM's or any era. I have a few but they have not required major work, lucky for me.
But like the OP said skepticism is healthy. He's skeptical of the design. I'm skeptical that 50+ years later he found an issue that no one else ever did. I think the engineers, ops, techs, and later owners would have found this issue, if it was one. If there wasn't one WMS wouldn't have paid to add the extra part and work.

It's been rationalized that "there wasn't the internet" so Williams, or the public, was never informed when these problems occurred in the field. I can agree with the lack of internet, but WMS would have heard from OPS, and this type of fix (undocumented) would have been seen in games that people have now. Has anyone seen this fix applied to a game they acquired, it does not appear so.

The fact this discussion exists is great.

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