(Topic ID: 336504)

EM Pinball Repair: Where to Start? (First time)

By SantaEatsCheese

1 year ago


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There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

BLUF: Could you guys direct me to the recommended resources to getting a complete EM pinball machine up and running? Just looking on where to start.

Long version: I freaking love pinball. I decided to pick up a "summer project" for the garage, and picked up a complete Vulcan at the Allentown pinball show from the flea market. I've only ever had one E.M. (El Dorado) and it was working when I got it so keeping it running was fairly straight forward. This one is a four player (obviously not ideal to learn on) but its in nice shape and minus a wooden backdoor as opposed to a metal one seems to be in really nice condition. I have not put much time into it yet (still gotta bring my other show pins downstairs) but did get it put together this morning.

So far it lights up! The first few times I pressed start I felt something try to move, but it doesn't do that anymore. I threw some credits on it and I see things under the playfield move and the credit reel try to turn, but nothing happens when I hit the start button and flipper buttons. I'm not in a rush and have time to learn, but wanted to know what you would recommend me look at first, and if there was a standard "bringing dead pins back to life" list of things to check. Thanks!

Vulcan (resized).jpgVulcan (resized).jpg
#2 1 year ago

I started with this over 20 years ago and still refer to it for solving issues that come up.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm

This is a good place too:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/EM_Repair

#3 1 year ago

Hey man, I'll join your journey. My wife forbids me from buying EMs but I need a project as well. I've gotten a couple EMs to work and passed them on, but I would like to do a more thorough deep dive into one. I will pick one up here in a couple weeks and tag behind.

I'm looking at a 4 Queens for sale locally, but who knows what will pop up.

#4 1 year ago
#5 1 year ago

Did the pin come with the manual? Unfortunately Gottlieb's are still under license but they can be purchased.

There are two ways to approach an EM. For those just starting it is recommended to get the game running by going through the start-up sequence stated in the manual. The general Gottlieb start-up is also found on the previous links provided. Taking one issue at a time is beneficial to understand the basics.

Many of the pins that have been sitting could have gummed up stepper units as well. Usually a good idea to step them manually to see what condition they are in. More often than not you'll see someone has put grease on them at some point and now it's a gummy and sticky mess.

Biggest issue with Gottlieb's is the short throw switch stacks an the Ax and BX relays, can be finicky. And the AS steppers can be as well.

For some of us, we prefer to tear down the machine entirely if it has been sitting for an extended period. Don't even try to start a game, just rip it apart and clean everything and put it back together. For me, it easier to remove the bottom board as it allows better access to work on, clean up and I can easily see proper fucntionality of relays and steppers.

Your Vulcan playfield looks to be in really good condition too! How does the backglass look? Gordon did some very cool artwork for Gottlieb.

Start a thread when you're ready to dig in. There are quite a few people on this forum that provide excellent advice on trouleshooting. They will try to lead you to water but want you to drink it in order to grow your repair skills.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Did the pin come with the manual? Unfortunately Gottlieb's are still under license but they can be purchased.
There are two ways to approach an EM. For those just starting it is recommended to get the game running by going through the start-up sequence stated in the manual. The general Gottlie start-up is also found on the previous links provided. Taking one issue at a time is beneficial to understand the basics.
Most of the pins that have been sitting have gummed up steeper units as well. usually a good idea to step them manually to see what condition they are in. More often than not you'll see someone has put grease on them at some point and now it's a gummy and sticky mess.
Biggest issue with Gottlieb's is the short throw switch stacks an the Ax and BX relays, can be finicky. And the AS steppers can be as well.
For some of us, we prefer to tear down the machine entirely if it has been sitting for an extended period. Don't even try to start a game, just rip it apart and clean everything and put it back together. For me, it easier to remove the bottom board as it allows better access to work on, clean up and I can easily see proper fucntionality of relays and steppers.
That playfield looks to be in really good condition too! How does the backglass look? Gordon did some very cool artwork for Gottlieb.
Start a thread when you're ready to dig in. There are quite a few people on this forum that provide excellent advice on trouleshooting. They will try to lead you to water but want you to drink it in order to grow your repair skills.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Garrett:

For some of us, we prefer to tear down the machine entirely if it has been sitting for an extended period. Don't even try to start a game, just rip it apart and clean everything and put it back together.

Before you start adjusting every switch read this section from pinrepair.com:
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#clean

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

BLUF: Could you guys direct me to the recommended resources to getting a complete EM pinball machine up and running? Just looking on where to start.
Long version: I freaking love pinball. I decided to pick up a "summer project" for the garage, and picked up a complete Vulcan at the Allentown pinball show from the flea market. I've only ever had one E.M. (El Dorado) and it was working when I got it so keeping it running was fairly straight forward. This one is a four player (obviously not ideal to learn on) but its in nice shape and minus a wooden backdoor as opposed to a metal one seems to be in really nice condition. I have not put much time into it yet (still gotta bring my other show pins downstairs) but did get it put together this morning.
So far it lights up! The first few times I pressed start I felt something try to move, but it doesn't do that anymore. I threw some credits on it and I see things under the playfield move and the credit reel try to turn, but nothing happens when I hit the start button and flipper buttons. I'm not in a rush and have time to learn, but wanted to know what you would recommend me look at first, and if there was a standard "bringing dead pins back to life" list of things to check. Thanks!
[quoted image]

You’ve been around long enough that you should know there’s about 5 thousand pages with this exact title! The search function would answer all of these questions, noobs post “how to fix Em?” at LEAST once a week!

EMs are EZ. Pinrepair is the place. Is there a ball in the trough? Credits on the wheel? Are there any stuck switches on the playfield?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

You’ve been around long enough that you should know there’s about 5 thousand pages with this exact title! The search function would answer all of these questions, noobs post “how to fix Em?” at LEAST once a week!
EMs are EZ. Pinrepair is the place. Is there a ball in the trough? Credits on the wheel? Are there any stuck switches on the playfield?

Thanks! I also just discovered I have not seen any EM repair threads because I had them as "hidden" on the main page. Part of my problem. Wasn't really looking for specific answers to my problems, more "read this thread/website" which I've gotten. Thanks! This is all enough to get me started. I may start a spcific thread if it isn't an easy fix.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Did the pin come with the manual? Unfortunately Gottlieb's are still under license but they can be purchased.
There are two ways to approach an EM. For those just starting it is recommended to get the game running by going through the start-up sequence stated in the manual. The general Gottlieb start-up is also found on the previous links provided. Taking one issue at a time is beneficial to understand the basics.
Many of the pins that have been sitting could have gummed up stepper units as well. Usually a good idea to step them manually to see what condition they are in. More often than not you'll see someone has put grease on them at some point and now it's a gummy and sticky mess.
Biggest issue with Gottlieb's is the short throw switch stacks an the Ax and BX relays, can be finicky. And the AS steppers can be as well.
For some of us, we prefer to tear down the machine entirely if it has been sitting for an extended period. Don't even try to start a game, just rip it apart and clean everything and put it back together. For me, it easier to remove the bottom board as it allows better access to work on, clean up and I can easily see proper fucntionality of relays and steppers.
Your Vulcan playfield looks to be in really good condition too! How does the backglass look? Gordon did some very cool artwork for Gottlieb.
Start a thread when you're ready to dig in. There are quite a few people on this forum that provide excellent advice on trouleshooting. They will try to lead you to water but want you to drink it in order to grow your repair skills.

Dang it. No manual included and I was just at a show where they had manuals and schematics. I thought $40 was a bit steep when I could just pull them online. Next time...

Backglass is a little worn in the skin. I was offered a new shay backglass for $250 along with it at the show but I'm trying to keep this one cheap so I can pass it along cheap when the weather cools off.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Dang it. No manual included and I was just at a show where they had manuals and schematics. I thought $40 was a bit steep when I could just pull them online. Next time...
Backglass is a little worn in the skin. I was offered a new shay backglass for $250 along with it at the show but I'm trying to keep this one cheap so I can pass it along cheap when the weather cools off.

$750 for a non-working EM is steep in my opinion, and all Gottlieb Manuals are licensed and must be bought from Steve Young’s
Pinball Resource or found secondhand. I bought most my Gottlieb manuals at the show.

Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks! I also just discovered I have not seen any EM repair threads because I had them as "hidden" on the main page. Part of my problem. Wasn't really looking for specific answers to my problems, more "read this thread/website" which I've gotten. Thanks! This is all enough to get me started. I may start a spcific thread if it isn't an easy fix.

Ah yes, reminds me of when I got my first Capcom and realized after a while that I had Capcom threads hidden.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

$750 for a non-working EM is steep in my opinion, and all Gottlieb Manuals are licensed and must be bought from Steve Young’s
Pinball Resource or found secondhand. I bought most my Gottlieb manuals at the show.

Ah yes, reminds me of when I got my first Capcom and realized after a while that I had Capcom threads hidden.

Eh... I'm in it $708 including the new leg levelers I got for it. You live, you learn. I'm sure I could have gotten a working one for not that much more, but half the fun in this one is learning more about how they work and how to fix them. Assuming I can get it running 100% and get my money back out in 6 months I'm happy. I didn't buy a toy... I bought a puzzle that turns into a toy, while destroying my back. Seriously... my El Dorado was SOOOOOO much lighter.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

...Seriously... my El Dorado was SOOOOOO much lighter.

Ha i was just telling someone I remember thinking "why even have 2 player games, make them all 4, duh!"
Then I got a 4 player and felt the diff'rence!

Pinside should add a back hurting emoticon

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Ha i was just telling someone I remember thinking "why even have 2 player games, make them all 4, duh!"
Then I got a 4 player and felt the diff'rence!
Pinside should add a back hurting emoticon

One of the reasons four players used to be the real bargains.

Use to be....

#15 1 year ago

Mike! I'm late to the thread. The links Flipsteen posted are great. Let me know if you want me to come over to your house tonight to look at it and get you started on things. Having an ultrasonic cleaner really helps with the score reels, but you can get them working again without that. I wouldn't worry about the price. You will be able to get this thing working again for not much money. Place an order with The Pinball Resource for a schematic and manual. You could also put in an order for new rubber bands, but I also like the translucent rubber bands that come in a big container from Pinball Life.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Eh... I'm in it $708 including the new leg levelers I got for it. You live, you learn. I'm sure I could have gotten a working one for not that much more, but half the fun in this one is learning more about how they work and how to fix them. Assuming I can get it running 100% and get my money back out in 6 months I'm happy. I didn't buy a toy... I bought a puzzle that turns into a toy, while destroying my back. Seriously... my El Dorado was SOOOOOO much lighter.

That's a very fair price for that game, they aren't very common, and even EMs have increased in price. And it's a pretty fun game.

Turn on the game and:

I would try to spin the score motor manually (give it a little nudge clockwise) and see if it turns.

I would also manually press in the start relay at the bottom of the cabinet and see if that does any thing.

Read over Clay's pinrepair doc...print it out if you can, read it in your spare time. You simply need to learn how these things "think" and the logic behind it all.

I will say that the latch trip relays (AX) tend to be the source of countless startup and game over issues on these games. It's a shitty design on gottlieb with VERY little travel so the switches in the relay all need to be just right.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Mike! I'm late to the thread. The links Flipsteen posted are great. Let me know if you want me to come over to your house tonight to look at it and get you started on things. Having an ultrasonic cleaner really helps with the score reels, but you can get them working again without that. I wouldn't worry about the price. You will be able to get this thing working again for not much money. Place an order with The Pinball Resource for a schematic and manual. You could also put in an order for new rubber bands, but I also like the translucent rubber bands that come in a big container from Pinball Life.

Thanks so much! Let me have at it a week first as I'm just getting started. I'll send an invite next week and you can check out Xenon too (got it 100%) or whatever else you'd like.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's a very fair price for that game, they aren't very common, and even EMs have increased in price. And it's a pretty fun game.
Turn on the game and:
I would try to spin the score motor manually (give it a little nudge clockwise) and see if it turns.
I would also manually press in the start relay at the bottom of the cabinet and see if that does any thing.
Read over Clay's pinrepair doc...print it out if you can, read it in your spare time. You simply need to learn how these things "think" and the logic behind it all.
I will say that the latch trip relays (AX) tend to be the source of countless startup and game over issues on these games. It's a shitty design on gottlieb with VERY little travel so the switches in the relay all need to be just right.

I will try this tonight.

Just sourced a copy of the manual with a pinky promise not to share it so I've got some more troubleshooting to do.

Thanks all! I have plenty to read and get me started. I just didn't know where to start, and this link http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#top is exactly what I needed.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks so much! Let me have at it a week first as I'm just getting started. I'll send an invite next week and you can check out Xenon too (got it 100%) or whatever else you'd like.

That works for me. I hope you enjoy getting it working again. It's a fun feeling of accomplishment. I'm not one of the EM super-genius guys around here, but I'm happy to help out if you get stuck.

I agree with CrazyLevi. Like he was was saying, you can't just punch in the local Facebook Marketplace and find 20 Vulcan pinball machines for sale.
Once you get it flipping again (probably for $50 or less) you should be able to sell it without any problems to someone on pinside, or at the York show in October.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Thanks all! I have plenty to read and get me started. I just didn't know where to start, and this link http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#top is exactly what I needed.

Yes this is the bible of EM repair and one of the single greatest public contributions to the hobby. When I bought my first game, Argosy, in 2002, this was the first thing I printed out, and I still have that copy at the shop.

Even then, you can't just read your way into figuring this shit out. EM pinball is a ton of trial and error and especially process of elimination.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's a very fair price for that game, they aren't very common, and even EMs have increased in price. And it's a pretty fun game.
Turn on the game and:
I would try to spin the score motor manually (give it a little nudge clockwise) and see if it turns.
I would also manually press in the start relay at the bottom of the cabinet and see if that does any thing.
Read over Clay's pinrepair doc...print it out if you can, read it in your spare time. You simply need to learn how these things "think" and the logic behind it all.
I will say that the latch trip relays (AX) tend to be the source of countless startup and game over issues on these games. It's a shitty design on gottlieb with VERY little travel so the switches in the relay all need to be just right.

I agree regarding the price especially since the playfield is in good shape. If you can pick up an EM for under $800 these days that aint bad especially if in pretty good condition. I've seen far worse go for far more.

#21 1 year ago

She lives!
After reading the material you guys linked to (thanks) I manually put some credits on the wheel. The longer I play the better it works. Just finished a 4 player game. Some sticky score reels and starting a single game uses all credits, but those can be fixed and I'm going to try to figure out how to get it on freeplay. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction so I could get started. Neat game!

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#22 1 year ago

Get the lighter fluid on those scoring coils.
Cut a little bit off the springs back there if you need to get some snappier action.

#23 1 year ago

Sweet! Way ahead of schedule on this one!

#24 1 year ago

And you can set it on freeplay with an alligator clip? She's playing smoother now. Gotta figure out how to crank up the flippers and get those score reels going smooth.

20230509_194122 (resized).jpg20230509_194122 (resized).jpg
#25 1 year ago

Like any other old game your flippers need a rebuilt.

But a quick cheat is to hi tap your game. Definitely will add some pep.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I would try to spin the score motor manually (give it a little nudge clockwise) and see if it turns.

I'm pretty sure that should be counter-clockwise

#27 1 year ago

Hi tapping is a must

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Like any other old game your flippers need a rebuilt.
But a quick cheat is to hi tap your game. Definitely will add some pep.

Quoted from TheLaw:

Hi tapping is a must

Search function. High tapping. Another project!

#29 1 year ago

What's hi tapping?

#30 1 year ago

This video talks about the Vulcan transformer hi-tap for improving the flipper power.

#31 1 year ago

There is plenty of discussion about high tapping elsewhere in the forum. The high tap or output on the transformer was provided at a time when the line voltage across the continent varied considerably. The high tap was a way to compensate if you operated your game in a part of the country where the voltage was lower than average. Today the line voltage is pretty consistent across geographies so the intended use of the high tap is no longer necessary.

Opinions vary widely. Some like to high tap their games to give them more pep. Some would never consider doing it to keep the game original, reduce the risk of breaking things, etc.. Some choose to clean, rebuild and tune their flippers, pop bumpers, EOS switches, etc.. Some remove windings from specific coils like pop bumpers.

The down side of high tapping is that you're putting more energy not just into the flippers but into every 24 volt device including relays, steppers, motors, chimes, etc. which makes them all run hotter and more aggressively than they were designed to. It's kind of a big hammer to address issues that often have other ways of being addressed.

What's the right answer? You get to decide.

/Mark

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

What's the right answer? You get to decide.

Too True

Quoted from Gryszzz:

What's hi tapping?

I don't think you played a VFW EM that wasn't hi tapped Gryszzz

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

And you can set it on freeplay with an alligator clip? She's playing smoother now. Gotta figure out how to crank up the flippers and get those score reels going smooth.
[quoted image]

The pinrepair.com EM section has a chapter on how to set your machine for free play by simply adjusting a switch on the credit unit so that it’s still closed at zero credits. I prefer doing that over using an alligator clip that could possibly come off over time with all the machine vibrations. It’s also cheaper! Plus, it’s easily undone by adjusting the switch back so that it opens at the zero position again.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

What's the right answer? You get to decide./Mark

The only times that I tend to use high tap are when bringing an EM machine to a show for the free-play area. The first time I bought a machine to Allentown (a Gottlieb High Hand), it started playing incredibly "sluggishly" as more machines arrived, so I took out my mulitmeter and measured the voltage on the line that it was plugged into... it was down to around 107-108V. I had my soldering iron along so I opened up the machine and moved the wire to high tap. It still wasn't playing as lively as at home, but at least it was now passable. The line voltage at some of the newer halls might not require it, but this one did.

#35 1 year ago

I can understand why some pople high tap although I do not. The example stated above is a case in which I would but otherwise never.

The purpose of high tapping is to increase ball velocity. As EM playfields age they see increased friction from the playfield condition and cupped inserts that will then reduce ball velocity. This is why many do it and it's a quick way to improve ball velocity.

An EM that is properly set up and maintained will provide fairly quick gameplay without being high tapped.

When EM's were new the gameplay was surprisingly fast.

The ultimate solution is a clearcoated playfield. Having gone down this very laborious road, there is no better end result. And I know this is something most people never want to do and I totally understand why.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to high tapping, it's your pin and your choice.

#36 1 year ago

I used to hi tap all of my EMs but I got tired of doing it as I started moving more games in and out.

It's not really necessary, but there's no denying it adds some pep. And in about 10 years of regularly hi-tapping EMs I never saw any evidence that the game was more prone to damage, so I think that's probably a fallacy.

Any game where hi-tapping it is gonna cause a drop target to snap in half probably has 50 year old drop targets on it that need to be replaced anyway.

It's SUPER quick and easy to do and reversible so no reason not to try it. And I really think that new EM guys - used to the fast games they've been buying and playing - will appreciate it. That's pretty much why it was mandatory for me, when I bought my first game(s) which were 70s games, not being able to afford the 90s williams games I was used to at the time.

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's SUPER quick and easy to do and reversible so no reason not to try it.

Definitely my expererience - I try the hi tap on every game and sometimes It plays better for me and sometimes I don't like it on a game so I reverse it back. Easy enough. And for sure where I have a hi tap for over 20 years - never had broken plastics, etc.

#38 1 year ago

Wow... high tap made a huge difference and took 5 minutes. Jacked the back legs all the way up. Needs a good cleaning and I need to hunt down some things like the bonus multipliers and get credits working properly but this is way easier than I expected.

Rolled the score the first time after tweaks.

Time to rest the back up again to get Weird Al set back up.

Also amazed there are only 3 years between this and my xenon.
20230510_203958 (resized).jpg20230510_203958 (resized).jpg

#39 1 year ago

Hi tap is a way of life

#40 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Hi tap is a way of life

There's a Miller High Life joke in there somewhere.

#41 1 year ago

SantaEatsCheese Awesome that you are finding it, "way easier than I expected." It's a fun process bringing an EM back to life.

#42 1 year ago

Everything seems to be working right mechanically other than sticky reels, so it looks like I'm going to have to take that apart and clean it. I had a couple of spots in the playfield where the inserts were deep enough to "catch" the ball and get it stuck, particularly in the outlanes. I'm filling with Polycrylic and an eye dropper. Dries super clear. The playfield won't be glass smooth when I'm done but the game already plays SOOOO much better than it did. Figured out the whole 2x bonus thing. Turns out every ball 3 is a double bonus round by default so nothing's wrong. Doing a tiny bit of touching before adding the clear everywhere except insert 1 because it was the first and well... I forgot to.

20230515_170553 (resized).jpg20230515_170553 (resized).jpg20230517_065057 (resized).jpg20230517_065057 (resized).jpg

#43 1 year ago

Yeah gottlieb loved a “ball 3 / 5 bonus multiplier” thing.

They cut and pasted more rule sets than Lonnie.

#44 1 year ago

SantaEatsCheese did you remove the playfield from the machine to make it level when filling in the inserts?

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

sataneatscheese did you remove the playfield from the machine to make it level when filling in the inserts?

Lifting the front of the playfield up and resting it on the front of the machine makes it almost perfectly level, but thats a good point and something I should check.

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Lifting the front of the playfield up and resting it on the front of the machine makes it almost perfectly level, but thats a good point and something I should check.

Yep. That’s what I do. Sometimes I need to stick a little cardboard or something to make it level

This guy is like an old EM pro already !!!

#47 1 year ago

Nice work. I use lacquer because it’s similar to what’s already on the playfield and blends well. It’s also relatively easy to level and polish to a shine with a razor blade and a series of increasingly fine grit sand paper. I basically copy the techniques used on repairing vintage guitars. StewMac and Dan Erlewine have a bunch of videos on the topic. Just my approach, everyone has their favorites.

Now if I could just learn to match colors better

Dave

#48 1 year ago

Got the insert leveled, moved the pin into its final spot with everything working, now only the 10s score. It only plays player 2, the balls don't end... it was fun while it lasted. Going back to working pinball a bitter before attempting this some more. You live, you learn.

20230520_143459 (resized).jpg20230520_143459 (resized).jpg
#49 1 year ago

Check the coin unit, lower right side of the motor board, near the chimes. That’s what determines the player count. Even if you’re playing a one player game, it has to cleanly reset and step up to one player. Macke sure that it can smoothly operate, stepping up and down. That unit determines how many clicks the player unit in the back box steps on each new ball (which is how the game does one to 4 players). That also feeds into getting to game over.

Don’t give up. It’s a common Gottlieb multiplayer issue. And steppers are often involved in EM issues no matter which mfg or how many players are involved.

Dave

#50 1 year ago

I've high tapped some, not high tapped others, but I've never broken anything on any EM regardless of the transformer setting.

Only on a SS Joker Poker. I broke three drops before I got sick of it and replaced them all.

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