(Topic ID: 250453)

EM Pinball Machine Complete Circuit Description #2 - Bally Monte Carlo

By xsvtoys

4 years ago


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  • 62 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by xsvtoys
  • Topic is favorited by 44 Pinsiders

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There are 62 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

I did draw it completely from scratch. For this project I used Adobe Animate, which was formerly known as Flash. Other possibilities to do it in vector format could be Microsoft Visio or LibreOffice Draw. I don't think I would attempt something of that scale in a bitmap format.
I use Flash for a number of reasons. First, I have been using it for many years so I am very familiar with it. It is known as an 2D animation tool which it does very well, but it is also an underrated vector drawing tool. Once you get the hang of it, you can work quickly in the vector environment. A key feature is the ability to draw something once, then save it to a library as an object. This is critical for any situation where you need to use the same object over and over. You can then just pull it from the library any time you need it and place it where you want. So that is great for drawing things like switches that are used over and over in one of these schematics.
All that said, I wouldn't recommend it unless it was something you were really interested in doing and really desire the end result. It is quite a bit of work, even if you are experienced. Once I started this one I couldn't stop of course, but man it took a long time to finish. These pinball schematics are full of quite a bit of information. The Flash file is quite large, and it has more than a dozen layers. You have to be organized and focused on the details to get it done right. I did do it in sections, and I tried to be as careful as could be as I went along, but even then I would come back to it and spot obvious errors I made. You can drive yourself crazy putting in all of those wire colors and switch numbers.
I recommend having a look at the redrawn Bally Wizard schematic which is uploaded at IPDB. That one is particularly nice IMO. I don't know who made that, or how they did it, but it would be interesting to know how that one was made. Particularly notable is that all of the wires are drawn in their actual colors. In theory it should be somewhat easy to do this in Flash/Animate as you should be able to one-click a line and change its color, but I haven't found an easy way to make the 2-color dashed lines and that is the main reason I didn't do it.
PS if anyone does have access to the latest version of Adobe Animate I can send the native FLA file if you want to see it. PM me an email address. The file is 22MB in size.

What an awesome guide! I found this by coincidence since a friend of mine has a Monte Carlo from 73, which when only playing 1 player, randomly anvances to player 2 after a ball has drained.

Sometimes even when ball 2 drains, it could be advenced to player 3s score field... Hopefully this can shine some light onto why that could happen even thou he only insert 1 coin.

Thanks alot for taking your time and writing this!!

Regards from Sweden

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from bytestorm:

I found this by coincidence since a friend of mine has a Monte Carlo from 73, which when only playing 1 player, randomly anvances to player 2 after a ball has drained.
Sometimes even when ball 2 drains, it could be advenced to player 3s score field... Hopefully this can shine some light onto why that could happen even thou he only insert 1 coin.

Interesting coincedence, I just fixed the exact same problem in my Space Mission using this guide to understand how it should work (starting at post 44). I'd suggest using a test light and seeing if the ball count step up is firing. From there you can backtrack down the path until you find what's not firing. In my case it was the score motor switch that connects the ball count branch (3B in this game). Every time it failed it wasn't closing - it has worked perfectly ever since adjusting it to close reliably.

I'd love to do this same kind of guide for Space Mission. The circuits aren't exactly the same, and of course some features are different. But this guide made it a whole lot easier to understand some of the mysteries like the game reset and ball drain sequences.

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from LeChuck:

Interesting coincedence, I just fixed the exact same problem in my Space Mission using this guide to understand how it should work (starting at post 44). I'd suggest using a test light and seeing if the ball count step up is firing. From there you can backtrack down the path until you find what's not firing. In my case it was the score motor switch that connects the ball count branch (3B in this game). Every time it failed it wasn't closing - it has worked perfectly ever since adjusting it to close reliably.
I'd love to do this same kind of guide for Space Mission. The circuits aren't exactly the same, and of course some features are different. But this guide made it a whole lot easier to understand some of the mysteries like the game reset and ball drain sequences.

Thanks for the tips! What kind of light test are you referring to?

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from bytestorm:

Thanks for the tips! What kind of light test are you referring to?

If you search the forums for "test light" you'll see what I mean - literally just a light bulb (or two) connected to alligator clips. You can use it to quickly check circuit paths to see if they're open or closed. I just bought this one off Amazon for $5 USD and it works perfectly with a bright red LED for both coil and lamp testing (I use a 1 meter set of alligator clips as extension so I can leave it hanging outside the game where I can see it):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017RHOKO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01

For example with this issue - start with the light connected across the ball count step up relay. When it's working correctly, you should see it light up after the ball drains; when it's not working (and advances the player instead of the ball count) then you'll see it not light up. Take the clip that is on the switch side of the relay and start moving it down the path that leads to the relay - on the other side of the coin unit, on the other side of the player unit, on the other side of the score motor switch, etc. Once you find the first place that lights up when your problem occurs, then you've found where the switching has failed. You can isolate problems in minutes, very efficient way to trace the game logic.

Of course for maximum effectiveness, you need to understand how the game logic is supposed to work - which gets back to this thread!

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from LeChuck:

If you search the forums for "test light" you'll see what I mean - literally just a light bulb (or two) connected to alligator clips. You can use it to quickly check circuit paths to see if they're open or closed. I just bought this one off Amazon for $5 USD and it works perfectly with a bright red LED for both coil and lamp testing (I use a 1 meter set of alligator clips as extension so I can leave it hanging outside the game where I can see it):
amazon.com link »
For example with this issue - start with the light connected across the ball count step up relay. When it's working correctly, you should see it light up after the ball drains; when it's not working (and advances the player instead of the ball count) then you'll see it not light up. Take the clip that is on the switch side of the relay and start moving it down the path that leads to the relay - on the other side of the coin unit, on the other side of the player unit, on the other side of the score motor switch, etc. Once you find the first place that lights up when your problem occurs, then you've found where the switching has failed. You can isolate problems in minutes, very efficient way to trace the game logic.
Of course for maximum effectiveness, you need to understand how the game logic is supposed to work - which gets back to this thread!

Sounds like a great idea . I did actually search for Light Test and got 6032 posts.. but only mentioning the usage of such a tester but not actually showing me what it was :S.

Thanks once again!

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from LeChuck:

If you search the forums for "test light" you'll see what I mean - literally just a light bulb (or two) connected to alligator clips. You can use it to quickly check circuit paths to see if they're open or closed. I just bought this one off Amazon for $5 USD and it works perfectly with a bright red LED for both coil and lamp testing (I use a 1 meter set of alligator clips as extension so I can leave it hanging outside the game where I can see it):
amazon.com link »
For example with this issue - start with the light connected across the ball count step up relay. When it's working correctly, you should see it light up after the ball drains; when it's not working (and advances the player instead of the ball count) then you'll see it not light up. Take the clip that is on the switch side of the relay and start moving it down the path that leads to the relay - on the other side of the coin unit, on the other side of the player unit, on the other side of the score motor switch, etc. Once you find the first place that lights up when your problem occurs, then you've found where the switching has failed. You can isolate problems in minutes, very efficient way to trace the game logic.
Of course for maximum effectiveness, you need to understand how the game logic is supposed to work - which gets back to this thread!

Thanks for the amazon link. I can use this gadget. Great post description on how to use it, too!

#59 4 years ago

Excellent job by @XSVtoys, wish someone would do a Gottlieb 75-77 em the same way,

1 week later
#60 4 years ago

First I would like to thank you for the great information that you have provided about the Monte Carlo game. I picked up one a month ago for $200. It didn't work when I got it, so I have been following the link here and got it to work. But I still have issues that I can't figure out. 1. Wires to one of the coin door switches was broke. 2. Coil on 0-99 unit was burned up and froze. 3. Bent switch on score motor cam. 4.No power to credit button. And bad rubber on play field.
Now I am down to , 1 no ball in play light. 2. Game over coil won't latch without manual help 3. Ball over switch intermittent. The pic attached is where I am stuck. The blue line on the coin relay won't stay engaged long enough. Thanks

0207201800 (resized).jpg0207201800 (resized).jpg
2 months later
#61 3 years ago

Thanks for the amazing write up. Hopefully it will help me figure out an issue I'm having. Machine was working perfect. But I decided to replace the pop bumpers and flippers and now only 2 of the 3 pop bumper score doesnt register and 1 of the chime coils locks on. I suspect I bumped a wire somewhere or something.

#62 3 years ago

I just saw these last posts, Kenanderson and Pinhigh, if you are still having some problems with Monte Carlo, please start a new thread in the EM Tech Forum, and title it with the Monte Carlo name and a short description of the problem(s) you are having. And then, we can all attack it there and work on it, I'm sure we can get things figured out.

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