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(Topic ID: 283077)

EM Pin Needs A Voice

By JRC6000

3 years ago

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14 posts
10 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 3 years ago by JRC6000
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Hot Line Williams, 1966

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#1 3 years ago

JRC

Hello all. I've been working on a Hot Line machine that has been in my wife's grandparents place forever. I'm sure it hasn't been played in 25+ years. I'm working on a video showing what I've done. It's not perfect, but it's my first one so I'm proud of it.

I do have a question about the sound. Clearly someone silenced it in the past as there is nothing to strike the bell and the knocker is missing. I'm trying to figure out how to give it it's voice back. Is there any way to know if this coil is working or not? If it is, I think I should just need the plunger. Or would it be best to replace this whole thing? Also, I think the knocker attached to those two open wires (but there is no knocker to be found). Does that sound right?

Any thoughts would be helpful. I'm brand new to both this site and working on pins in general. Thanks!

IMG_0536 (resized).JPG

#2 3 years ago

DK

Pinball Naples

12y 155K 4,876 129 3

Do you have a multimeter? If you check between the 2 lugs and it is under 3 ohms, presume a dead coil.
My guess is there is no plunger on that assembly.

#3 3 years ago

ACE

paulace

Pinside+ Frequent

Charlottesville, VA

6y 72,300 1,403 8

According to this, the resistance should be 4.5 ohms. As MenaceFire said, if it measure much lower than that, replace it. And you do need a plunger.:

A2-23-750 coil (resized).JPG

The schematic is available at ipdb.org - maybe this snippet will help you. If you know where it was mounted, you should be able to see where the two loose wires were connected - they're not too long - you won't have many options. The replay unit must be somewhere close by.

knocker circuit (resized).JPG

#4 3 years ago

ARF

AlexF

Pinside member

Edgerton, WI

11y 116K 5,764 9 8

Congratulations on the Hot Line. It's a great game. I'd guess the coil is probably fine. Then sometimes go bad if they get locked on but that one doesn't look like your typical smoked coil. The wrapper would be crispy brown.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-5387

#5 3 years ago

JRC

JRC6000

Pinside+ Frequent

3y 55,650 167 13

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Looks like my first step is to get a multimeter. They aren't too expensive and I'll probably need it in the future anyway.

Those open wires are orange/blue and black/white, so they must go to the knocker. Hopefully pinball resource will have one.

#6 3 years ago

???

phil-lee

Pinside member

8y 91,550 4,215

The Williams small bell is great. The large one needs a small towel draped over it and the combination is better than Gottlieb chimes, which are great.
The Bally knocker that slammed steel against a strike plate on the cabinet is best, but get that original working.

#7 3 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

Olympia, WA

12y 83,400 5,965

Your picture shows the bottom portion of a Williams 5" bell assembly. You've got the coil and bracket. You need the gong assembly and bell plunger if you want the bell to ring.

As to the knocker, you need a complete knocker assembly. This is what it would have had (just cut off the diode):

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-8047

#8 3 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Kansas City, MO

10y 79,550 4,023 22

Quoted from phil-lee:
The Williams small bell is great. The large one needs a small towel draped over it and the combination is better than Gottlieb chimes, which are great.
The Bally knocker that slammed steel against a strike plate on the cabinet is best, but get that original working.

Hot Line only has one bell that rings for the 10s, 100s and 1000s. No bell for the 1s. You just hear the 1 point relay clacking away. Interesting that they did that for a game that has all those 1 point rollover buttons. It's been said that it sounds like a popcorn machine and that is so true.

You can buy the bell and the knocker assembly whole from Pinball Resource. You don't even have to worry about the coil since the Gottlieb coil coming with the assembly is 25v and Hot Line is a 25v game.

A coil that is under 3 ohms is not a dead short. Most pop bumper coils are under that. It's once you get near 1 ohm that you get into that area. I know you didn't say this, it was said above you, but I'd agree with Alex, that doesn't look like a smoked coil. They really only go bad if they lock on and burn up and the wrapper will let you know it's gotten hot. Disassemble that and put in a new sleeve and get a plunger and it should be ready to go. Clean up the jones plug too.

1 week later

#9 3 years ago

JRC

JRC6000

Pinside+ Frequent

3y 55,650 167 13

Good news, I cleaned things up, replaced the plunger, and now the bell works great. Makes playing the game so much better!

Other news, I got a new knocker from PB resource. However when I wire it up, it immediately energizes and stays energized when I turn on the machine. So obviously the circuit is closed when it shouldn't be and I need to figure out how to fix that.

Looking at the schematics, it seems like a pretty easy fix, one side has the 25c and 10c relays that should be closed by default (which they seem to be), the other side should be open by default but I guess it isn't. Problem is I can't figure out where this side is. The schematic labels it as "replay unit E.O.S. "MK"". I've looked all over the machine and can't figure out where this switch is. I can't find anything that is labeled a replay unit. I'm sure there is an easy obvious answer, but I just can't figure it out.

Can anyone help me solve this issue? Thanks so much in advance.

#10 3 years ago

CTO

ArgosySK

Pinside member

Regina, SK

7y 52,900 499 4

E.O.S. - End of Stroke. on the replay unit. It think it is this one. When the replay unit adds a credit when the coil pulls in it should close this switch.

replay (resized).JPG

#11 3 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,220 70

Quoted from EMsInKC:
Hot Line only has one bell that rings for the 10s, 100s and 1000s. No bell for the 1s. You just hear the 1 point relay clacking away. Interesting that they did that for a game that has all those 1 point rollover buttons. It's been said that it sounds like a popcorn machine and that is so true.

I played one at Pintastic and had the notion the game would sound dull with no 1 point bell, I was wrong! I see why Williams left it out, would have been too much.

#12 3 years ago

???

Silverstreak02

Pinside member

Lutz, FL

8y 61,300 1,306 4 7

OP
Quoted from JRC6000:
Good news, I cleaned things up, replaced the plunger, and now the bell works great. Makes playing the game so much better!
Other news, I got a new knocker from PB resource. However when I wire it up, it immediately energizes and stays energized when I turn on the machine. So obviously the circuit is closed when it shouldn't be and I need to figure out how to fix that.
Looking at the schematics, it seems like a pretty easy fix, one side has the 25c and 10c relays that should be closed by default (which they seem to be), the other side should be open by default but I guess it isn't. Problem is I can't figure out where this side is. The schematic labels it as "replay unit E.O.S. "MK"". I've looked all over the machine and can't figure out where this switch is. I can't find anything that is labeled a replay unit. I'm sure there is an easy obvious answer, but I just can't figure it out.
Can anyone help me solve this issue? Thanks so much in advance.

I did a crosstown a few years ago that was missing the knocker. Like you I bought the assembly from PBR and the coil stayed energized as soon as power was turned on. I guess we both discovered why it was missing.

#13 3 years ago

JRC

JRC6000

Pinside+ Frequent

3y 55,650 167 13

Quoted from Silverstreak02:
I did a crosstown a few years ago that was missing the knocker. Like you I bought the assembly from PBR and the coil stayed energized as soon as power was turned on. I guess we both discovered why it was missing.

Totally agree, it definitely would have been easier to leave the open wires! Any idea when the knocker is supposed to work? I assume after you complete the "E" in HOTLINE, but I'm only guessing.

#14 3 years ago

JRC

JRC6000

Pinside+ Frequent

3y 55,650 167 13

Quoted from ArgosySK:
E.O.S. - End of Stroke. on the replay unit. It think it is this one. When the replay unit adds a credit when the coil pulls in it should close this switch.
[quoted image]

Thanks, really helpful. I definitely wouldn't have looked there. I was looking everywhere under the hood. I'll need to pull it out and get in the backbox.

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