(Topic ID: 19317)

EM - Latest Project - Big Indian Questions

By wizzardz

11 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by wizzardz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

My latest “project” (not really a project as it’s a great playing machine as is) is shopping a new Big Indian. The cabinet front has been redone at some point with a new door, frame and brace. The backglass is a repro in great shape. The cabinets sides are the worst of it, but not horrible. Someone had already done some work on it, but it wasn’t known to the seller (who rescued it). A number of switches had been replaced, one of the bumpers had been rebuilt, flippers aren’t that old. The game meter has 111K on it. I cleaned up a bit with ME and alcohol along the left side of the bonus feathers, and the colors came out looking bright even though the pf doesn’t really look that bad (right side of the bonus) to start.

The only real pf wear is a spot by the left flipper. I love these older pf with areas of solid colors – much easier to work with. I’ve seen pages where others have touched up the pf, but none I’ve found go into detail as to what paint/color was used. Anyone know of color match info for a Big Indian/Brave?

Would I necessarily have to clear the whole pf after touching up this area? I’m sure I’ll eventually clear the whole thing (after filling the inserts), but now’s not the time. Of course I could just clean, polish and wax, and wait until I clear to touch it up.

The paint under the pop bumper mylars (loose) wasn’t bad at all. I was going to put new mylar down when I rebuild the bumpers. Any advice/experience as to loose or adhesive mylar here? Though there was some crud under the mylars, the loose ones seemed to hold up and not beat on the paint much.

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#2 11 years ago

Hey is that a hollywood Heat to the left there? Awesome.Anyways, Big indian is a fun game . You might want to try just buffing this playfield , It could come out real nice . Some of the playfields I've buffed look like they are clearcoated after and they play real good . You'll have to use differnt compounds and pads but the resaults are nice and if your not planning on clearing it now anyways try this . As for touch up alot of people use acrylic paint and eye match the colors . I use automotive paint and have a color map book match the color on a chip and make that exact color . I would also repaint the whole area , so in pic the Red arch near bottom has wear I would paint whole area all the way up into lanes . Time consuming but end resault looks good.

#3 11 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Hey is that a Hollywood Heat to the left there?

Yep, fun game but hard on the eys. Its a donor for a re-theme project.

Quoted from trilogybeer:

ome of the playfields I've buffed look like they are clearcoated after and they play real good

This one looks to have some of the original mask clear over the original paint, and the cleaning I've done so far didn't eat thru it much. It should polish up nice.

#4 11 years ago

Evil Dead was a retheme of hollywood heat , that came out nice. Seems like a good pin to retheme but the original is really funny allthough probally meant to cash in on the popularity of miami vice . and really the whole thing just makes me laugh I don't know whats funnier if thats their attempt at copying miami vice or if they did a parady and knew it was cheesy and were laughing the whole time they made it . But yeah accually a fun game to play. And yeah polishing the big indian is the way to go I think it will come out nice . Be carefull with the alcohol , I'm sure you know but it can go bad real quick.

#5 11 years ago

Big Indian was probably the best game I ever had - lots of fun

#6 11 years ago

I'm also looking for suggestions on replacing the pop bumper light sockets - perhaps to a blade socket - for an older Gott EM.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from wizzardz:

I'm also looking for suggestions on replacing the pop bumper light sockets

pbresource has them for sure

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

pbresource has them for sure

Sourcing them is the easy part. The questions is more along the lines of which to use as an alternative, if any.

#9 11 years ago

Cleaned it up this weekend. Eraser and alcohol followed by a good polishing. Didn't lose much paint at all. Then a number of coats of wax. The difference in the cleaning can be see in the white areas where the posts were. I've gone as far as I can until the tumbling post screws polish up.

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#11 11 years ago

Looks Great! I love these old EM games, just picked up a few for projects! What did you use for polishing?

#12 11 years ago

Looks good . Have fun I love that game.

#13 11 years ago

Wow! Looks good. Got a nice shine on it now. Now get it back together so I can come play it! JK

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from justjoe:

What did you use for polishing?

Novus 2 and some auto-finish polish (the latter has a bit more cut to it). I have a powered polisher, but didn't use it here for fear of burning thru the already thin art. So I just used foam/terry applicator, some polishing cloths, and elbow grease.

Quoted from action76:

Now get it back together so I can come play it!

I guess I already had it torn down when you were over last. I'm hoping to get it back together this week. However PBR (all of it) took the week off, and I'm not sure if they shipped my last order (from Thursday) beforehand. Guess I'll find out today. If not, complete reassembly might be delayed since the order included all the coil sleeves and some bumper springs. I might perhaps have to reorder as they seemed to have simply dumped all orders not filled and those that came in while they were closed.

#15 11 years ago

Any good resources out there on how to polish a playfield? My Hot Shot table isn't bad enough to require a full restoration.

#16 11 years ago

Thanks for this thread wizzardz. And thanks for showing us the Big Indian.

That looks like a wonderfully fun game to play. So many things to shoot for- and the playfield items look pretty balanced between both flippers. On my first glance it looked like the right flipper would be the busiest but a 2nd look noticed all the things for the left flipper to do.

Gawd I love the drop target positions... way up there!

I don't know if you want to use acrylic to touch up the red or not, but I thought I'd mention that I just touched up my Spirit of 76 and it looks like it might use the same red. http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/first-em-pin-in-30-years I used Liquitex heavy body paint with Cadmium Medium Red Hue and Cadmium Yellow Deep Hue. The red paint was too red and the playboard was more orange so I added a slight dab of the yellow for a near perfect match.

Thanks once again for the thread and maybe- just maybe you might upload a youtube video when finished? Oh how I'd love to see this pin in action.

#17 11 years ago

Finished adding back all the pf gear. Rebuilt the flippers. Cleaned and gapped all the switches. new bulbs, rubbers, posts. tumbled everything. Had to lay the new plastics out as well - but won't secure them until the pop bumpers are in. So now its a wait for the mail tomorrow to see of PBR got my order out.

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#18 11 years ago

Lookin' sweet so far Wizz

#19 11 years ago

Yes, that looks really great.
Some of the inserts look to be concaved such as the "Double Bonus when lit". Do you plan to fill/fix them if that is the case?

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

Some of the inserts look to be concaved

Actually I think all the inserts are cupped to some degree. I opted to do a good shop job on it rather than a full pf restore (fix cupped inserts, retouch wear, clear) as I have too many other project machines and wanted an EM up and running. I'll monitor for worsening wear. If it gets too bad too quick, then I'll likely need to look at doing something further.

1 week later
#21 11 years ago

I finally got the parts in from Steve on Saturday. After getting the pop bumper light sockets soldered in, I decided to do a quick light test. The light worked fine, but I noticed that the B&G lights were tripped at the start of the game. No worries, has nothing to do with the bumpers.

I get the bumpers in and decided to give a quick gameplay before putting the plastics on. I very much dislike the Gott acorn post setup, and have no interest in having to take the plastics off any more than necessary. Started playing the game and noticed the same B&G lights tripped at the beginning (lit bumpers and rollovers score as expected). When the I lane was made, the GI lights dimmed and the insert lights went out. I turned if off. The B&G tripping at start ended up being the head of the relay having come off the end of leafs. The I lane was still a problem and was toasting the 10a fuse if left – but I could manually trip the relay at this point.

With the schematic I traced it to the relay, but couldn’t find anything. Knowing I had a couple other issues (player two oddness, slings=100 in player 3 & 4), I was not looking forward to tracing a bunch of little issues. I had already gone thru adjusted not only the new switches but most of the original switches, so I wasn’t going to have luck figuring it out if it was something I did.

I remembered that the inside was pretty clean when I got it, but I hadn’t vacuumed/blown it out. Fire up the compressor and gave it a quick once over. Closed it up and turned it on and it came up just as it should. The B&G behaved as they should, the I lane didn’t fry a fuse, two player game played at is should and slings scored correctly again. Only adjustment I had to make after that was the lower G lane would score points but wouldn’t trip the light. I love pins that get fixed by blowing on them.

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#22 11 years ago

Played a bunch of games on it, tweaking switches and such. No problems with anything ... until ...

I decided the flipper ends were sitting a bit too low. It was difficult to hold the ball as the flippers fully up were just above horizontal. I adjust the flippers just a bit, and the I lane problem came back. Same symptoms - completing the I lane causes all insert lights to go out and the GI lights to dim. Eventually the 10a fuse goes. I'm hoping the problem is actually around the flippers as that's the only area I was messing with before it came back. Otherwise, I'm hoping another couple shots from the compressor fixes it again.

#23 11 years ago

Question about your lanes.

When the ball travels through any of the lanes, does the corresponding bank relay energize then de-energize and remain down in the latched position as it should- or does the corresponding bank relay remain electrically on? (Maybe the "I" bank relay?)

As you probably already know, the initial game reset sequence mechanically unlatches all the bank relays. As the ball rolls over the lane wire, that particular bank relay energizes with the rollover switch. The energized relay gets mechanically latched and the relay electrically de-energizes as the ball rolls past the lane's rollover switch.

If I were to guess, one of your lane rollover switches is sticking causing the bank relay to remain electrically energized which does a couple things. It makes other lights dim because the relay coil draws a lot of current when left on and eventually blows your fuse. If this is the case then I would think the effected individual bank relay coil will get hot if left on for a period of time.

If the relay is electrically sticking on then I'd remove the lane's wire form to clean both the wire and the slot it operates in, and the area on the wire form that pushes the switch leaf to make sure there's no old cruddy wax or dirt causing a bind, and ensure there's plenty of spring adjusted in the switch to reliably operate the wire form.

Your slings:
I assume that you are talking about the two directly above and near the flippers. Are they supposed to always score the same amount no matter what or is the player able to complete a game sequence to increase their value? Is your game designed so the slings score more if set to 3 balls versus 5 balls?

My SO76 does not have slings but I believe the design flow may be the same as your BI and I'll take a look at my schematic later if I have the time and see if I might get an idea about your slings.

#24 11 years ago

The I lane relay does stay energized (until I manually disengage it), so I'm guessing its a stuck I lane rollover switch as well.

The sling problem hasn't come back since I blew the cabinet out. I'm glad as it really didn't seem as it'd be an easy one.

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from wizzardz:

I decided the flipper ends were sitting a bit too low. It was difficult to hold the ball as the flippers fully up were just above horizontal. I adjust the flippers just a bit...

I'm sure it's a silly question but do you know what the standard angle here is for a Gottlieb machine? The flippers on my Hot Shot seem a bit too low as well, they only come up slightly 8 degrees above the horizon line.

Also, are there any tips to adjusting them?

#26 11 years ago
Quoted from BallPtPenTheif:

do you know what the standard angle here is for a Gottlieb machine?

I don't, and haven't found anything in my searches. I had started with simply setting them parallel to the wire guide in the pf behind them. I've since raised the end about 1/4 inch on each, but the return of the I lane issue kept me from testing the change.

When I adjusted them, I simply unscrewed the two set screws just enough to be able to move the bat, but still allow the screws to hold it in position to tighten it. Other than that, I just get it set and hold it in place while tightening. It took a couple tries to get them even, but that was more a matter of not having a good way to get them both aligned relative to each other than the process itself.

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