(Topic ID: 230752)

EM Help - Gottlieb Ship-Mates Start Analysis

By Big_Bob

5 years ago


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  • 11 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Big_Bob
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

I am working hard trying to figure out this start circuitry on the schematic...Therefore maybe someone can help explain how this works...

When I activate the coin relay the start relay (SB) should activate, according to the 1960 Gott Start Seq.
In the picture attached I just do not see how this will happen through the motor switches since the motor is not running yet? All motor switches are normally open so even if one is closed I need at least 2 closed.
I have highlighted the SB relay and motor switches in the attached picture.

Thanks for any help

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#2 5 years ago

The coin relay is K.

#3 5 years ago

Take a look at the section of the schematic that shows the score motor. It will show all the switches that can start the motor running. Can you post a clip of that section?

#4 5 years ago

Picture of Input power

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#5 5 years ago

Picture of Score Motor...

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#6 5 years ago

First, does the score motor take off running if you manually rotate it counterclockwise? If so, let's continue down this path. If not, we need to figure that out first.

Ok. Notice all the switches in the score motor circuit. One is "k". This indicates a switch on the coin relay that is normally open. When the coin relay "k" pulls in, it will close that switch and start the score motor running which will in turn, close those motor switches 1A, 3B, 2C. If that isn't happening. Then we need to start looking for opens in wiring or switches.

#7 5 years ago

With the game power up if I manually engauge the coin relay, K, the motor will turn 1/3 turn. If I hold it in it continues to turn.
Score reels are set to 0 and I hear the bank relays reset.
The 130V Hold relay, R, does not pull in which seems odd.
R is on the last pic I posted just above the transformer.

Another thing, the 130V relay, R, will stay in if I push it in it will hold.
TIA, Bob

#8 5 years ago

Ship Mates is a great game with cool rules considering how old it is. It is also a great multiplayer game because of all the point and extra ball stealing. I had major headaches getting mine up and running.

When you first power it up the playfield will not be lit until you put a coin in or push the start button. That sets the 115 volt hold relay. My 115v relay was burned, so I hard wired it on. I also drilled a hole in the bottom of the cabinet and installed an on/off switch in the normal position. This makes the game behave more like a newer game from that standpoint.

Anyway, here are a couple of things that I found on my Ship Mates. First of all these old games really rely on the score reels and their switches being clean and properly adjusted to make it through the startup sequence. Once I got that fixed, my game would not advance the steppers in the backbox properly to start a game unless I stepped it manually until the control bank reset at the Player one/ball one position. I could then play the game, but it would not advance ball or player at the end of a ball unless I cycled it manually. I had already cleaned and adjusted all of the easily accessed switches in the game. It turns out that two of the most heavily used and important switches on the score motor are the ones that are buried the deepest and hardest to see! Look at the score motor for the two hardest to get to switches. Pretty sure they are on 1A. Mine were black and totally corroded. They made no contact even when I held them closed. Cleaning them made the sequencing work. There is also a funky switch under the start relay on the control bank. It is literally under the relay instead of in the normal switch stack. Make sure that one is cleaned and adjusted.

On my machine I don't think it had been working for decades, so I ended up simply cleaning and adjusting every switch in the game and cleaning all of the steppers so they run smoothly. The game plays 100% and is reliable as heck now. I realize this is a brute force method, but in this case it was needed due to the corrosion on the switches and gummy old grease in the steppers. I replaced every coil sleeve in the game while I was at it. It was a lot of work, but totally worth it.
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#9 5 years ago

When you manually engage "k" relay, the "r" relay should pull in and stay in AND the "k" relay should stay engaged too. If this isn't happening, check the resistance of the coil for "r". I think it should be around 25ohm. Anyone out there who knows better, please correct me on this. I'm going on schematics alone.

#10 5 years ago

Hi Big_Bob
in post-1 You mentioned the "1960 Gott Start Seq." Can You please post a link to this Start Seq. ?
In here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#start I see 1960s & 1970s Seq. and it says: "The S-Relay will start the score-motor running.".
Here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Start_Up_Sequences some others.

I show a snippet from a GERMAN Ship Mates - maybe of help (?) - strange, the R-Relay is shown below the transformer - running on 115 Volts ... And in the list of Relays: H-Relay is 30-Volt-Hold-Relay. Is Your pin an domestic one - or an re-import from Germany ? Greetings Rolf

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2 weeks later
#11 5 years ago

To provide some closure I replace 2 coils in the start area and adjusted a few switches and it resolved this issue. I have another issue that I will start a new topic for. Thanks for all the replies!!!

Bob

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