(Topic ID: 53714)

Em: Count unit wear option?

By Pin-it

10 years ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Chrisbee
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IMG_3486_-_SS_B_P_Unit.jpg
IMG_1567_SS_BP_Unit.JPG
#1 10 years ago

Anyone ever have a bakelite material/rivet receding issue?
Curious what you think the best option to go with? short of another less worn unit.
Here is what I have ,the continuity of the shoe to contact rivet is sometimes hit or miss,so I was thinking of drilling a small dimple hole in the center of the tubular rivets of which some are below the level of the bakelite material.
Thinking of soldering new contacts over the existing ones, bringing the height of the rivet to normal level.
Anyone see any good or bad doing this type of repair,or have done one?
Either going to use the gold flashed contacts or the tungsten type contacts Pbr sells for their leaf switches to make this repair.
Was thinking new shoe springs would push them closer to the contact rivet? But it still would feel like a pothole for the rotating shoe avoiding continuity.
I have adjusted the assembly as close as possible,using spacer washers which helped a little but still not enough for good contact.

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks, Pin-it

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#2 10 years ago

PBR sells these rivets new so as long as you have the rivet tool and a drill you are in business.

Another option I used to repair on my Gottlieb 4 Square on the rivets which had the same problem was to use solder. You will have to get the Bakelite flat to do this then you will have to pool the solder on the rivets then use a file to make them flat. Worked fine for me.

Ken

#3 10 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

the rivets which had the same problem was to use solder.

Any adhesion problems with the rivet or was the rosin core flux strong enough for a good bite?

Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

pool the solder on the rivets then use a file to make them flat.

Ok that sounds easy enough to do,solder gun from the back had enough heat transfer but not too much to burn the bakelite?
The standard rosin core solder holds up well to the abrasive nature of the shoe?

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

The standard rosin core solder holds up well to the abrasive nature of the shoe?

I would use a High Tin solder, like 60% tin, this will give you a longer ware period. This type of solder will not be flux cored (Roofing type solder) available at most hardware stores in stick form. And use bakers Flux, also readily available. To use clean the rivet, warm up the rivet then coat with Bakers flux, rewarm the rivet and flow the solder. You may find the wire connected to the rivet will come free, as the high tin solder has got a bit high melting point than the wire solder and this is a good thing.

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

I would use a High Tin solder, like 60% tin, this will give you a longer ware period.

This sounds like a better solder as I just used the standard electrical solder with rosin core flux as that's what I had on hand and the adhesion was excellent. Not sure on the long haul as I sold the pin but I figure as long as you use the Teflon Gel for lubricant there should be no wear anyway.

Don't worry about the Bakelite as it can take the heat as I used my high heat solder gun with no discoloration of the material.

Ken

#6 10 years ago

I use 'silver solder' for building up worn out rivets when needed. It's considered a hard solder, and can really take a beating. I think I got mine at Radio Shack, but it's not too hard to find.

Then a light layer of Super Lube, and all is well.

#7 10 years ago

+1 for solder. Much easier than replacing the rivets. I've got a couple of EM's that were done 20+ years ago, and are still holding up well.

#8 10 years ago

First thing I'd do is price out the rivets and necessary tools at PBR. If the cost doesn't make sense then I, too go with a high tin solder and a container of flux. I most definetly would *not* use solder designed for electronic circuits because the lead content is too high making it too soft. You can even dent the stuff with your fingernail.

Good part with rivet replacement is it was designed by the factory that way. Proven over millions of machines to be very reliable. Solder is comparatively very soft and it's inevitable the shoes will wear into it. On the other hand you can re-tin the rivets when problems develop because of it.

If you go with solder make sure the board is horizontal and level so the bead is even.

#9 10 years ago

Thanks everyone ^^^ I admit the rivets would be the best option ,but the Silver solder seemed pretty hard to resist ,so after a good cleaning and a using paste flux, heated up the rivet till the flux boiled then started a light feed to the rivets.
Well it worked pretty good as you can see,just had to hold back on the flow as you could get carried away with it (had to remove a little from some using bare stranded wire)but after i got used to how it leveled out ,it didnt take long to do.

Silver solder is Lead free to boot = no lead poisoning!

Put it back together w/Superlube and it works like new. Looks pretty stout too.
Thanks again, Pin-it
Oh yeah, the only drawback was keeping that hershey kiss look on top of the solder application,just had to play with the hot tip to flow it out,and a light sanding helped finish it.
IMG_3495_After_soldering_SS.jpgIMG_3495_After_soldering_SS.jpg

#10 10 years ago

Side angle shot.

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#11 10 years ago

Looks like it came out great.

After playing mine for a month I had to go back and clean the disc again as it got dirty again but most likely because of the softer solder I used.

If it is dirty Just use the usual Scotch Brite pad with alcohol and Teflon lube again and you should be good to go for quite a while as it seemed to be part of an initial break in period.

Ken

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

If it is dirty Just use the usual Scotch Brite pad with alcohol and Teflon lube again

Yeah thats what i did when it would act up ,so its something that fairly easy to do if it shows up.
Ill play it a lot and see how dirty it gets.

Was looking into the rivets and tool and found them at Marcos and PBR.
The tool is the pricey piece but the rivets are cheap enough.
I have an arbor press and was thinking down the road to fabricate a rivet tool for it,and use it for riveted targets to be changed, maybe get some rivets and some bakelite to practice with too.

Marco_rivet_setter.JPGMarco_rivet_setter.JPG Pinball_resource_rivets.JPGPinball_resource_rivets.JPG

#13 10 years ago

I have one of those but forgot where I bought it and for how much as it was a couple years ago. Funny thing is I used it for setting a target rivet once but mainly use it to peen a Switch contact to a Switch leaf which I do a lot.

I just use the flat metal part, lay on concrete, rag between the face of the contact and the metal to not scratch the contact surface, couple bangs with a hammer, add solder to the back of the leaf where the nub is, and done.

Works Great and worth the money as it has a dual purpose, at least! Small too so it's easy to store.

Ken

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

I use 'silver solder' for building up worn out rivets when needed. It's considered a hard solder

Just checked the properties of Silver solder, it is still typically Very high Tin, the reminder is Silver and in some case contains copper. So it sounds like the better choice, with a melting point of 220C
From Wikipedia
Sn95 Ag5 Melting point 221/254[48] Widely used. Strong lead-free joints. Silver content minimizes solubility of silver coatings. Not recommended for gold. Produces strong and ductile joints on Copper and Stainless Steel. The resulting joints have high tolerance to vibration and stress, with tensile strengths to 30,000 psi on Stainless.[48]

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