EM Captain Fantastic - game not starting or it insists on 4 players

(Topic ID: 215537)

EM Captain Fantastic - game not starting or it insists on 4 players


By LarryAF

11 months ago



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  • 20 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 41 days ago by MarkAnderson
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#1 11 months ago

I have an EM Captain Fantastic that was working well until recently, when things suddenly deteriorated. I need some guidance on getting it working again. Everything was working fine until ~3 weeks ago, when it started behaving badly as follows:

1. Pressing game start button causes scores to reset, but a new game does not start. It still says game over. I can push game start until 4 players are lit, but a game still does not start. This was a sporadic problem, and turning the game off and on sometimes helped. Instead, I am more likely to run into problem #2…

2. The game insists on having 4 players. I will press game start for one player, but if it actually starts (see #1), after the first ball is played, it goes to player #2 (even though I select one player). No matter how many players I choose, it still goes through player #2, 3 and 4. However, it never switches from player #4 back to player #1. It will replay the ball over and over in player #4 without changing back to player #1.

I’m baffled. Any suggestions on where to start? I looked through prior posts to this site but cannot find anything similar.

Thanks very much in advance.

Larry

#2 11 months ago

The manual describes the entire startup sequence starting at the bottom of page 2. What's the first discrepancy in your game?
http://www.ipdb.org/files/438/Bally_1976_Capt_Fantastic_and_The_Brown_Dirt_Cowboy_English_Manual_no_schematics.pdf

#3 11 months ago

Check the player up unit in the backbox, sounds like it could be seized up trying to reset back to player one. It’s located between the player one and three score reels. Check for broken wires to the coils & switches. If all is well use the plungers to step thru the 4 positions, if it doesn’t step cleanly You should disassemble and clean it up w alcohol, reassemble and test again.

#7 11 months ago
Quoted from fumbleflippers:

Check the player up unit in the backbox, sounds like it could be seized up trying to reset back to player one. It’s located between the player one and three score reels. Check for broken wires to the coils & switches. If all is well use the plungers to step thru the 4 positions, if it doesn’t step cleanly You should disassemble and clean it up w alcohol, reassemble and test again.

Thanks for the suggestion, fumbleflippers. The player up unit seems to be working. I had already cleaned all the contacts and checked all the wires, coils, etc. When I step through the 4 positions, it seems to move cleanly. But, I noticed that the step up solenoid fires, not the reset coil, after player 4 ends.

Also, the ball in play never advances - even on the rare occasion the reset coil energizes and it goes from player 4 to 1, the ball does not advance. Lastly, keep in mind no matter how many players I select, it does 4. Thanks again.

Quoted from HowardR:

The manual describes the entire startup sequence starting at the bottom of page 2. What's the first discrepancy in your game?...

Thanks, HowardR. I have the manual (and schematics) and reviewed it. It is difficult for me to determine where the sequence fails because I am mainly seeing problem 2 listed above. However, I believe it fails after 2C completes.
Thanks again.

#8 11 months ago

is it a sticky "coin unit" stepper in the bottom of the box ? (how many players are "coined-up")

good cleaning tips here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

#9 11 months ago
Quoted from LarryAF:

Thanks, HowardR. I have the manual (and schematics) and reviewed it. It is difficult for me to determine where the sequence fails because I am mainly seeing problem 2 listed above. However, I believe it fails after 2C completes.
Thanks again.

OK then, concentrating on problem 2 (The game insists on having 4 players). Does the Coin unit reset to single player, or is it stuck on some other number of players?

#10 10 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

OK then, concentrating on problem 2 (The game insists on having 4 players). Does the Coin unit reset to single player, or is it stuck on some other number of players?

The coin unit resets to 1 player and steps up as more players are added as it is supposed to do. If I select only one player, the coin unit stays at 1 player and does not step up, but player 2 still comes up after player 1. After player 4 is done, the player up unit not reset to player 1. Instead, the coil that steps up the player up unit is fired.

Also, if it ever does switch correctly from player 4 to 1, the ball in play does not advance.

Thanks!

#11 10 months ago

Look at the Coin Unit disk and this switch on the motor.

Pinball (resized).png

3 weeks later
#12 10 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Look at the Coin Unit disk and this switch on the motor.

I finally was able to get back to this today. I looked at both the switch on the motor and the coin unit. The switch on motor seems ok, but I cleaned switches anyway. I also took the coin unit apart and cleaned it. After I cleaned the coin unit and put it back together, I noticed it was sometimes not resetting all the way to zero position (with finger wipers not all the way to "1"); this would cause wipers to go past "4" when 4 players were selected. I did not notice if this occurred before I took the unit apart. See photos of coin unit, at reset position (image 2222) and when 4 players are selected (image 2223). I took it apart a 2nd time, wound the clock spring titer, cleaned everything again and made sure all screws were tight. After putting it back together it is resetting properly; finger wipers align correctly.

It appears this fixed one problem (#2, insisting on playing 4 players). The number of players seems to be correct now.

However, it still does not always go from player 4 to player 1, or player 4 repeats after ball 5 instead of ending the game. In a prior post (#7 above) I mentioned the step-up solenoid in the player up unit fires, not the reset coil, after player 4 ends. I suspect this is why it does not go from player 4 to 1, but I am not sure why that would happen. Thoughts?

Thanks very much.

Larry

EDIT: Correction - problem #2 is not fixed. I went back to test it and it still often insists on 4 players. And the coin unit looks OK. Question: in image 2224, the finger wipers are not perfectly aligned with the contact underneath. Could that be a concern? I do not know how those wipers would have become misaligned but not the others, too.

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#13 10 months ago
Quoted from LarryAF:

it still does not always go from player 4 to player 1, or player 4 repeats after ball 5 instead of ending the game. In a prior post (#7 above) I mentioned the step-up solenoid in the player up unit fires, not the reset coil, after player 4 ends. I suspect this is why it does not go from player 4 to 1

If the Ball Count Unit Step Up solenoid doesn't advance when the 4th player drains the ball, diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires.

Pinball (resized).png

4 weeks later
#14 9 months ago

I finally had a chance to work on this further. I am happy to say I eventually got everything fixed, thanks to the suggestions posted. Much appreciated!

Another question... While assessing all the relays i noticed some have rubber washers, some do not. Some of the rubber washers need replacing. Can I ask why some relays use these washers? I am trying to see if I have to order replacements. I assume they're there for a good reason, but wonder why some relays have them and others don't. See attached photo. Thanks very much for everyone's help.

LF

IMG_2583edit (resized).jpg
#15 9 months ago

I think those are for coin chute relays & the rubber grommets were to help prevent the machine getting picked up then slammed down to award a credit.

so YEAH you need 'em or some hooligans will come over and start playing for free

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from chas10e:

I think those are for coin chute relays & the rubber grommets were to help prevent the machine getting picked up then slammed down to award a credit. so YEAH you need 'em or some hooligans will come over and start playing for free

Haha! Thanks very much for the reply.

2 months later
#17 6 months ago
Quoted from LarryAF:

I finally had a chance to work on this further. I am happy to say I eventually got everything fixed, thanks to the suggestions posted. Much appreciated!
Another question... While assessing all the relays i noticed some have rubber washers, some do not. Some of the rubber washers need replacing. Can I ask why some relays use these washers? I am trying to see if I have to order replacements. I assume they're there for a good reason, but wonder why some relays have them and others don't. See attached photo. Thanks very much for everyone's help.
LF
[quoted image]

What ended up being the issue that resolved the problems? Having something similar happening.

#18 6 months ago
Quoted from cjs001:

What ended up being the issue that resolved the problems? Having something similar happening.

Same here.

#19 6 months ago

I got the issue resolved today on mine. I found if I manually activated the self hold switch on the Coin Relay the player unit would finally reset. It appeared like the Coin Relay was not getting a strong enough pulse to engage the self hold switch. I cleaned its contacts checked gaps and went and cleaned switch stack 7 on score motor (cannot remember what made me look there too) and noticed one of the make breaks on that stack ( switch C) was only making right at the peak of the lift of that stack so I adjusted to the make the make and break happen sooner. (I am not great with schematics yet so those two may not be related to each other but that fixed the issue) My issue was self inflicted, the game was 100% working but filthy, I removed the lower board in the main cabinet to clean it up and clean switches. Prob arose after I reinstalled it so I knew the problem at least for me was localized to the bottom board. Hope this info can help you some.

5 months later
#20 41 days ago
Quoted from LarryAF:

Haha! Thanks very much for the reply.

what was the resolution to your issue?

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