EM bingo blowing 50 volt fuse


By Drpullit

2 weeks ago


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  • Latest reply 1 week ago by bingopodcast
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    #1 15 days ago

    Just new to the site and hope someone can help. I have a Bally Miss America Deluxe, had it for many years and it has worked great with no issues. Had not played it in a while. Started and played game and it seemed the magic lines did not work. At the end of game started a buzzing and I “bumped “it and caused a tilt (most likely the tilt bob) and it apparently blew the 10amp 50 circuit fuse. I replaced fuse and when I plug in it immediately blows fuse. So as I started to troubleshoot, every time I try to start up the fuse blows. I got a 5amp breaker to further try to find fault. On doing a (dark room) test the anti-cheat relay sparked on the part that says it goes to trip relay. I put paper in this contact and it still blows fuse. Also after the fuse blows I held down actuator and this caused the tilt light to go out and relights the numbers on the cards. Also the button safety relay pulls in and holds when I hold anti-cheat relay down. I put a 9 volt battery to all the coils and they pull in,but the anti-cheat relay does test at 1.9 ohms. I don’t think that is causing the spark in the leaf springs though. I hope some of you can help!

    #2 15 days ago

    Magic lines unit may have something wrong - at the start of a new game, it will recenter each line.

    Alternatively, the trip relay for tilt may be causing an issue.

    If anti-cheat draws a big spark, then you likely have a short somewhere. Start by reading the manual for that switch or let me/us know which switch it is, and then try to identify what appears on the schematic at that location. There are only a few things that should be happening when you turn the machine on. If the fuse blows before the start relay engages, then you have a big short.

    #3 15 days ago

    Give me a call even though my one of my best friends here on pins side is Nick which is a technical engineer I will walk you through a process that will cut your time down dramatically even though he does not suggest it but it's how I cut and save a lot of time give me a call please

    #5 14 days ago

    I have moved my post to the EM tech sub-forum as it may be best there, so please follow it there. Really hope for help.

    #6 14 days ago
    Quoted from Drpullit:

    I have moved my post to the EM tech sub-forum as it may be best there, so please follow it there. Really hope for help.

    OK - I'll try to link that one to this one so that people can at least try to help you that are trying to help you here...

    Have you been able to identify the switch in the manual? Can you provide me with the switch number?

    #7 14 days ago

    Bingopodcast, I posted the area of the schematic on the EM tech thread, does not show any switch numbers.

    #9 14 days ago

    I just need the switch pair from the manual - I'll help with the schematic, just want to know which one is causing trouble. I can make a guess, but if you could provide that information I can help from there.

    #10 14 days ago

    Here's my guess... try turning the game on, and lifting the plate underneath the tilt relay (just that plate). Let go once it clicks into place. Does it immediately drop?

    Something is probably shorted to something in the tilt setup. There is a slam switch on the back of the coin door. Make sure nothing metal is touching the solder tabs on it. The EB button can be placed very close to it, and if the wood has weakened that the switch is screwed into, you'll blow the 50V fuse.

    #11 14 days ago

    All the slam switches are good and open. I don't see a tilt relay, there is the tilt trip on the trip bank. The switch on the anti-cheat relay that is sparking is the B switch on that relay and manual says it completes circuit to tilt trip sw

    #12 14 days ago

    OK good. That is behaving as it should.

    The Anti-cheat is unable to close because the tilt is tripped. If you hold it down, the fuse will blow, hopefully before the tilt trip coil fries (it doesn't take long to fry those trip relays).

    Latch the tilt relay and let me know if it drops immediately. If it does, then manually reset your timer unit and try again. Once it stops tripping, then try to start the game and see if the 50V fuse blows.

    My initial guess, based on your description, is something in the Magic Lines. But we are ruling out potential problem areas.

    #13 14 days ago

    Not sure what you mean by and how to latch the trip relay (not totally sure where it is) and how to reset timer. Got to remember I am new to this but I am studying like a mad man and do appreciate help. Had some other things to try regarding shutter motor to. I am at work now and will try some of this stuff when I can

    #14 14 days ago

    Not a problem. I am always happy to help.

    The trip relays have a plate that is pulled by the relay (coil) itself. Lift the metal plate and it will latch.

    Find the timer unit. Normally on the backdoor, but for this game, may be under the playfield.

    It has two coils - a step up and a reset. Push each plunger. The step up will move one position (or none if it is at the top). The reset will (should) zip all the way back to position zero. There are switches that it hits when maxed out. In this game's case, the tilt relay is not thrown when the timer is at full, but we are ruling something out.

    #15 14 days ago

    The 50Volts goes to a LOT of PLACES........it may take time to find your problem.
    "Divide and Conquer"......... What ?
    You have to isolate the problem some way! I'm guessing your problem is with the 'Magic lines' or
    'Colored Lines', what ever they are called. I'm a 'Magic Squares' guy, so I don't own this Pin.
    I would pull the fuses shown in the diagram here, that way you can isolate the Top from the Bottom
    circuits.
    *** 'Bingopodcast' can probably help more than me though!
    Just my thoughts......

    ScreenHunter_31 Nov. 29 07.04 (resized).jpg

    #16 13 days ago

    Messed with machine some today. Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Still show spark on anti-cheat and in still throws circuit breaker. Started manually holding down some coils on 6 bank relays and somehow it finally started. Played a game all worked well moved magic lines and scored a winner and then the buzzing started and kicked circuit breaker tilt light came on without tilting machine. Now back to square one. Don't know how this info help. Am considering trying to find and replace anti-cheat coil don't know what else to try.

    #17 13 days ago

    Your anti-cheat coil is not fried. But you do have a problem elsewhere in the machine.

    Did the breaker kick during payout?

    #18 12 days ago

    No I recorded the winner. But shortly there after the buzzing started ant the circuit breaker blew. I did not remember the sequence of manually holding relays to get it started. I know theses machines have so many parts and sequences it is really frustrating, with your guys help maybe we'll get her going.

    #19 12 days ago

    Also to state again this last time the tilt light came on when the circuit broke but I did not tilt it. As the tilt light comes on the card numbers lights go out

    #20 12 days ago

    Few things that will help clarify what's going on:

    1) Tilt in a bingo has two different states - 'soft' tilt is when the anti-cheat relay no longer holds. One switch pair on there lites the tilt lamp even if the tilt trip relay has not dropped. 'Hard' tilt is when the tilt trip relay drops. Each have different circuitry involved to get the machine started again.
    2) When starting a game manually, the anti-cheat should hold closed, then start relay pressed.
    3) In order to troubleshoot you will need to track carefully the state of the game. Take a 'divide and conquer' approach.

    The anti-cheat relay is -required- in order for the game to function at all. Because you were able to play it even after manual manipulations, the anti-cheat is not your problem. The problem is something connected to the 50V line. When 50V drops, for whatever reason, the anti-cheat will let go, lighting the 'soft' tilt.
    It could be a misadjusted switch or two in the anti-cheat, but it's definitely not the coil.

    The buzzing you are hearing is a coil locking on. Whatever coil is buzzing is the problem - or the circuit to which it is connected.

    Something is causing that coil to hold.

    Here's what I would do:

    1) Start a game manually.
    2) Play a straight game, no odds or features increase. (one press of the start relay).
    3) Once the game is complete (no winner), start a new game.
    4) If the game doesn't malfunction, put together a winner. Run to the back of the game. Watch carefully any units to see if you can see which one is attempting to step. It could be as simple as the periodic step of the timer unit is not happening because a switch on the control unit is too close. This would happen on -any- complete game as the timer steps to the top.

    I hope that makes sense, happy to clarify if you need further! I am also available to talk you through it on the phone if you so choose, feel free to PM me.

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