(Topic ID: 252126)

Elvira's House of Horrors - The Owner's Club

By RobertWinter

3 years ago


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  • 11,801 posts
  • 715 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 23 hours ago by Plungerboy
  • Topic is favorited by 334 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Do you currently own other Elvira machines?”

  • This is my frst Elvira machine 325 votes
    65%
  • Also own Elvira and the Party Monsters 29 votes
    6%
  • Also own Scared Stiff 97 votes
    19%
  • I own all three now! 47 votes
    9%

(498 votes)

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#11701 11 days ago
Quoted from Boatshoe:

For all of us waiting 100 years for EHOH orders, Bond is 9.7k.... so EHOH will be.... ??? 9.7? 9.9? 10.1?

SWAG: 10.5

#11702 11 days ago

I have asked my distro every couple of months about a price increase and so far, he's only hit me with the one from about a year ago (to $8700). I haven't heard anything recently at all about another bump, though I'm mentally prepared for it. How much it goes up will definitely play into how willing I am to still get it. I'm not paying $10K base price for a pinball machine, not for a premium. I'd consider $9500, but going above that might be too large a pill to swallow. I've got debts to pay, man, lol.

#11703 11 days ago

They keep promoting a game that they aren't making and (worse) aren't finishing the code for.

#11704 11 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

They keep promoting a game that they aren't making and (worse) aren't finishing the code for.

I think the code is pretty complete.

#11705 11 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

They keep promoting a game that they aren't making and (worse) aren't finishing the code for.

The game is coded. Could there be more, sure but what game has more meat on the bone than Elvira. I would take a Lyman coded game revision 1.00 or greater over any other pinball coder out there. Lyman’s code integration is the best. I really don’t see Stern promoting this any more. They have moved on to their shiny new titles with greater appeal. The game is going to the line one last time and that will likely be it.

#11706 11 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

I had to leave it for bed. I feel like i looked everywhere on it. I hope there's not something on the bottom of the playfield as I've also laid the house forward to have better angles.

javagrind888 I don't know if you managed to do this in the end, but I had to remove the left ramp too, as my 3 garage optos were permanently locked on. There are two nuts underneath the playfield (pretty much under the ramp entrance flap) holding the front down, and 2 screws behind the backboard holding the back of the ramp in place. I also had to remove the little plastic to the left of the ramp entrance as it wouldn't quite fit past it when lifting the ramp out.

Also, once I had done it, I found all my optos were aligned ok and nothing blocking... So went back to the under-playfield wiring and eventually found one little connector slightly pulled out, I assume it was for the receiver board - but it was just really hard to spot as the connection is hidden up inside one of the bulb inserts (basically looked like it was plugged in ok because the connector was held in place by the cut out).

#11707 10 days ago
Quoted from jhallsuxatpinbal:

I'm really hoping they actually make these in November. Things have been moving around so much and rumors swirling about next year or not even making the game again at all. I've been on the list for a year and just hope they turn these things out in November on schedule.

I hope they make them on time in Nov also, but I'm going to take a guess and say it'll be March.
Sept is gone. Oct will be gone with Bond going to sell really well. Nov is gone with LZ and TMNT final runs. They have to slap in the Bond SLE's somewhere, and squeeze in more GZ before no one wants them anymore.
The EHOH people have already been waiting a year at least, and the whole allocation is already sold out. We're a sure thing. Making them faster doesn't do a thing for Stern and they know it.
The year is toast, with another new title coming in Dec/Jan..... EHOH will be in March (IMO).

#11708 10 days ago
Quoted from PinStalker:

I hope they make them on time in Nov also, but I'm going to take a guess and say it'll be March.
Sept is gone. Oct will be gone with Bond going to sell really well. Nov is gone with LZ and TMNT final runs. They have to slap in the Bond SLE's somewhere, and squeeze in more GZ before no one wants them anymore.
The EHOH people have already been waiting a year at least, and the whole allocation is already sold out. We're a sure thing. Making them faster doesn't do a thing for Stern and they know it.
The year is toast, with another new title coming in Dec/Jan..... EHOH will be in March (IMO).

sept 2023, with higher price

#11709 10 days ago

Wasn't sure if buying my 2nd hand Elvira was a mistake if I could have just waited till Nov and got a NIB one. Sounds like I made the right choice, not only because of an increasingly inevitable delay, but highly likely I would have being paying more too (without any extras).

#11710 10 days ago

Was told by my distro today… Elvira delayed until Q1 of 2023. Price increase incoming but not yet determined. Super disappointed.

#11711 10 days ago
Quoted from PinStalker:

I hope they make them on time in Nov also, but I'm going to take a guess and say it'll be March.
Sept is gone. Oct will be gone with Bond going to sell really well. Nov is gone with LZ and TMNT final runs. They have to slap in the Bond SLE's somewhere, and squeeze in more GZ before no one wants them anymore.
The EHOH people have already been waiting a year at least, and the whole allocation is already sold out. We're a sure thing. Making them faster doesn't do a thing for Stern and they know it.
The year is toast, with another new title coming in Dec/Jan..... EHOH will be in March (IMO).

Dont think there are more LZ in Nov, but they do still have Bond, TMNT, SW, GotG and home versions of JP and SW.

Really seems like they hate making Elviras. If they’d just made them a year ago with this years prices I think people would have been upset at the price but at least they’d have their games.

If Elvira is pushed to next year, given it’s always been more expensive than other premiums, it’s going to be over 10k

#11712 10 days ago
Quoted from Ceemunkey:

javagrind888 I don't know if you managed to do this in the end, but I had to remove the left ramp too, as my 3 garage optos were permanently locked on. There are two nuts underneath the playfield (pretty much under the ramp entrance flap) holding the front down, and 2 screws behind the backboard holding the back of the ramp in place. I also had to remove the little plastic to the left of the ramp entrance as it wouldn't quite fit past it when lifting the ramp out.
Also, once I had done it, I found all my optos were aligned ok and nothing blocking... So went back to the under-playfield wiring and eventually found one little connector slightly pulled out, I assume it was for the receiver board - but it was just really hard to spot as the connection is hidden up inside one of the bulb inserts (basically looked like it was plugged in ok because the connector was held in place by the cut out).

Thanks, I got it figured out over the weekend with the help of another Pinside member over pm. Rocking and rolling now!

Quoted from docquest:

I think the code is pretty complete.

I'm sorry, but the code is nowhere complete as long as the movies on the backglass and playfield (including the main character centered, Eegah) are in the game. Two of them even had menu options. Elvira stated that she's done the call outs for not only all of her original movies, but was called back to do all of her new ones too. Other than the missing translite and playfield movies, rest would just be butter really, but I'm into this game for the movies theme wise.

Also, I haven't seen any rules or coding for "Beast Booster" and no one can tell me that the entire house turret mech was for simply to dance during multiballs. There are even light up inserts on each side. My theory is that they were meant to change the movie lineup of the windows, a new set of movies for each turret side. That probably would have been code at 200% maybe, but I'm betting that was the intention of it.

#11713 10 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

I'm sorry, but the code is nowhere complete as long as the movies on the backglass and playfield (including the main character centered, Eegah) are in the game. Two of them even had menu options. Elvira stated that she's done the call outs for not only all of her original movies, but was called back to do all of her new ones too. Other than the missing translite and playfield movies, rest would just be butter really, but I'm into this game for the movies theme wise.
Also, I haven't seen any rules or coding for "Beast Booster" and no one can tell me that the entire house turret mech was for simply to dance during multiballs. There are even light up inserts on each side. My theory is that they were meant to change the movie lineup of the windows, a new set of movies for each turret side. That probably would have been code at 200% maybe, but I'm betting that was the intention of it.

I really wish they'd finish these last few movie modes too, Wasp Woman, Eeegah, Don't go into the Basement for example. The turret is an add-a-ball during (at least) House Party MB; you send a ball into the house when the eyeball is front and center. No idea on Beast Booster.

Since there's supposed to be one more run of the game, there's still a small chance they may actually update the code. Long shot without Lyman, but let's hope !

#11714 10 days ago
Quoted from javagrind888:

Thanks, I got it figured out over the weekend with the help of another Pinside member over pm. Rocking and rolling now!

I'm sorry, but the code is nowhere complete as long as the movies on the backglass and playfield (including the main character centered, Eegah) are in the game. Two of them even had menu options. Elvira stated that she's done the call outs for not only all of her original movies, but was called back to do all of her new ones too. Other than the missing translite and playfield movies, rest would just be butter really, but I'm into this game for the movies theme wise.
Also, I haven't seen any rules or coding for "Beast Booster" and no one can tell me that the entire house turret mech was for simply to dance during multiballs. There are even light up inserts on each side. My theory is that they were meant to change the movie lineup of the windows, a new set of movies for each turret side. That probably would have been code at 200% maybe, but I'm betting that was the intention of it.

Pinball designers are dreamers. They pitch tons of ideas. The art guys need to implement those ideas in to the art package for the game. Also keep in mind that everything in the game but Elvira is open source and doesn’t require a license to use (so the art team had a green light to use everything). This is all done now before the game is coded. The coder then needs to make it all work with what the designers, engineers and artists gave him or her. It is a huge task and things always fall off the plate. Lyman did a great job in my opinion. I think it is his masterpiece. There is always room for improvement but, at this point, I would be worried the new coder might screw it up. The os image for this game is huge for pinball machine. Video files take up a lot of space but Star Wars has tons of video (hundreds of clips) and Elvira is twice the size of Star Wars (file size wise). I totally understand where you are coming from but the path from dream to reality is a difficult one.

#11715 10 days ago
Quoted from Jkaping:

Was told by my distro today… Elvira delayed until Q1 of 2023. Price increase incoming but not yet determined. Super disappointed.

Damnit!

the-office-angry.gif

#11716 10 days ago

I would just love to understand how Stern gets off charging over the quote for a game that we were told would be built almost a year ago just because they decided to delay it. I'm almost pissed off enough to call my distro and cancel. Almost.

#11717 10 days ago
Quoted from Jkaping:

Was told by my distro today… Elvira delayed until Q1 of 2023. Price increase incoming but not yet determined. Super disappointed.

I haven’t heard anything. Who is the distributor? That would be bad news because production would be pushed passed the standard 3 year license agreement. I have no clue what the terms were or if Covid somehow extended the agreement.

#11718 10 days ago

The turret also switches to show which enemy you are fighting in the “It came from space” wizard mode.

#11719 10 days ago
Quoted from Wildbill327:

Just recently I started to have a little trouble with Elvira. When ever I started a mode the ball would just come out of the house and it didn’t lock(hold) the ball. This was a bit frustrating because as she was talking and all the GI lighting was dimmed the ball was hard to see and cause unwanted drains. So I took a look at what keeps the ball locked(A post that’s always down) and it was actually binding on the edge which wouldn’t allow it to go back to the down position. I loosened up two screws and realigned the post and now it’s working as it should. Hope this helps.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Hi Wildbill327,

I was having the exact same issue on my EHOH and then I found your fix posted. Thank you so much for documenting and posting your fix as it 100 percent solved my issue and saved me a lot of troubleshooting time.

Gord

#11720 10 days ago

If Greg hasn’t gotten George to allocate time to implement new features by now (he’s been trying for over a year), I don’t see it happening.

No benefit to Stern - they aren’t going to sell more games. We may see more OS and IC updates but I think any new game code is unlikely. It would have been awesome to see what Lyman would have done to finish the code as he imagined but as others have said this is still a great game as it stands.

I hope those with confirmed orders get their games next year - it is definitely worth the wait.

#11721 10 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I haven’t heard anything. Who is the distributor? That would be bad news because production would be pushed passed the standard 3 year license agreement. I have no clue what the terms were or if Covid somehow extended the agreement.

I'm pretty sure it was already going to be passed that standard 3-year agreement.

From my understanding first games came out in mid-September of 2019.

#11722 10 days ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

I'm pretty sure it was already going to be passed that standard 3-year agreement.
From my understanding first games came out in mid-September of 2019.

B66 had a five year run. So I could see this studio title running 5 as well. Meaning builds in 2023 could be last call.

#11723 10 days ago

My right pop bumper is firing off non stop for no reason, as soon as a game is started. Anyone have an idea the cause?

20220923_175326 (resized).jpg

#11724 10 days ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

I'm pretty sure it was already going to be passed that standard 3-year agreement.
From my understanding first games came out in mid-September of 2019.

A bunch of us tried to run this down a couple years ago. Oct 1, 2019 is the earliest recorded build date. A couple of us have games built on that day. I am the only one with a number one under my coin box. I am thinking I have the first production machine. Cool but it doesn’t change much. I am still 1 of 400 LEs made. Ironically, my game is #110. I have made the challenge a few times over the years for someone to prove me wrong. To date, nobody has.

#11725 9 days ago
Quoted from Jkaping:

Was told by my distro today… Elvira delayed until Q1 of 2023. Price increase incoming but not yet determined. Super disappointed.

Really?! Damn. Last week Zach from FNO said that the run was still planned for November according to what he was hearing from Stern.

I was finally starting to relax a bit, as I've been super worried that the run would get pushed again. We should get confirmation on Monday when Zach's newest episode of TPS comes out.

#11726 9 days ago
Quoted from jake35:

My right pop bumper is firing off non stop for no reason, as soon as a game is started. Anyone have an idea the cause?
[quoted image]

Gap on the leaf switch under the playfield is too tight. Bend it a little further apart (but BARELY - too much gap and it won't fire when triggered) and that should fix you up.

This is a JJP tech video, but the principles are the same, even if the switch may look a little different:

#11727 9 days ago
Quoted from iluvak9:

Noticed this item for sale at Target. Thought someone without a topper might be interested in utilizing this as an alternative.
https://www.target.com/p/mack-super-liner-60-sleeper-cab-w-vintage-40-dry-goods-trailer-elvira-mistress-of-the-dark-1-64-diecast-by-dcp-first-gear/-/A-84851234
[quoted image]

I have this Elvira Semi Truck on my EATPM. It’s not very big, but has great detail and makes a cool topper!

#11728 9 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

A bunch of us tried to run this down a couple years ago. Oct 1, 2019 is the earliest recorded build date. A couple of us have games built on that day. I am the only one with a number one under my coin box. I am thinking I have the first production machine. Cool but it doesn’t change much. I am still 1 of 400 LEs made. Ironically, my game is #110.

I have in my notes October 1st was first day of production. I got that from a Stern employee on the Expo tour. I have his card somewhere but forget his name. Don’t know if you have the first, but you have one of the first.

As for your LE number - except for requested numbers the plaques are are just pulled out of a box and are essentially random so #110 is not a surprise.

I’m so glad I got an LE. What a beautiful game!

#11729 8 days ago
Quoted from docquest:

These seem to be pretty rare in my area. I have 4 Targets within 1/2 hour of me and only one store had any. l saw a lot of the similar TMNT gift boxes so maybe there will be more Elviras out there over time.
The UPC code for it is 634482560693, the Target DPCI number is 323-07-8943. I still don't see these show up on the Target website when searching with those numbers.
They also seem to be putting these is a different area than the usual Neca,Funko, etc pop culture collectibles area. If you go to one of the price checker terminal in your local Target and search on "neca" you should see a pic of the Turtles box in the results that will list the aisle number to find it. If your store has it, it would probably be in that same aisle.
Here is an unboxing video that shows what's inside the box so can decide it its worth $50 or not.

The box is exclusively for the US? Oh I really like to have one but not going to happen I'm afraid...

#11730 8 days ago

A little more 3D action from the back-panel. Moon and saucers were there, and I just pushed them out a little.

2022-09-25 09.54.20 (resized).jpg
#11731 8 days ago

Better late then never I suppose. Just purchased a 40th NIB from the local distro. If anyone has any of medisynls mod's they would like to sell please let me know. I was late to the game and missed his last run mods.

#11732 7 days ago
Quoted from PersonX99:

A little more 3D action from the back-panel. Moon and saucers were there, and I just pushed them out a little.
[quoted image]

Niiiiiice! Would you mind sharing a link to the UFO STLs?

#11733 7 days ago
Quoted from markdw:

Better late then never I suppose. Just purchased a 40th NIB from the local distro. If anyone has any of medisynls mod's they would like to sell please let me know. I was late to the game and missed his last run mods.

PM him and let him know. He just stopped selling them like a week or so ago. He might have one left for you. Worth a try.

#11734 7 days ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

PM him and let him know. He just stopped selling them like a week or so ago. He might have one left for you. Worth a try.

He was on the list for months and did get back to me in time (he hadn't logged into Pinside). We had PMd about it last week and I got him in (perhaps he misunderstood).

Messages are going out for the last run within the hour here (EDIT: All messages sent).

Otherwise, the deadline for the list was Sept. 4, and I've stuck to that. All sets being made are now complete (aside from the charity set that I hope to finish in the next couple days). Nothing else will be made.

I had to draw the line somewhere, and it's been hectic trying to juggle these with STh, as STh has proven to be difficult to make progress on with both lines running (each STh set takes about 16 hours to make [recently took another step toward hopefully reducing that a bit going forward]).

#11735 7 days ago
Quoted from Medisinyl:

He was on the list for months and did get back to me in time (he hadn't logged into Pinside). We had PMd about it and I got him in.
Messages are going out for the last run within the hour here.
Otherwise, the deadline for the list was Sept. 4, and I've stuck to that. All sets being made are now complete (aside from the charity set that I hope to finish in the next couple days). Nothing else will be made.
I had to draw the line somewhere, and it's been hectic trying to juggle these with STh, as STh has proven to be difficult to make progress on with both lines running (each STh set takes about 16 hours to make [recently took another step toward hopefully reducing that a bit going forward]).

Awesome! Glad he got in!

#11736 7 days ago
Quoted from PersonX99:

A little more 3D action from the back-panel. Moon and saucers were there, and I just pushed them out a little.
[quoted image]

Where do you get the trees? Do you have a picture standing back further? Thanks

#11738 7 days ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

Where do you get the trees? Do you have a picture standing back further? Thanks

Search on Department 56. I forget which set they were but there are several choices.

#11740 7 days ago

I am not sure everyone realized that Medisinyl Mods 40th anniversary set had a lighting feature (coffin) in addition to a unique paint and sculpt.

Here are the parts needed to pull off the coffin lighting effect in his “standard” release of the mod.

One cool white 44 base matrix bulb available below from comet.

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/quick-connects

One 4” red light strip also available from comet. These are self adhesive.

https://www.cometpinball.com/products/lighting-strips

There is a GI light below the coffin and a factory provided hole in the plastic just above that. It is the perfect place to power the lighting effect for the coffin. That circuit is also dimmed regularly during game play which also dims the coffin light. Looks great and and only costs a few bucks to implement. Just replace the factory GI bulb with the matrix one. Connect that to the red light strip that you stuck to the inside of your coffin on the left wall. Put it back together and you are done.

20220924_072940 (resized).jpg20220924_072950 (resized).jpg
#11741 7 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I am not sure everyone realized that Medisinyl Mods 40th anniversary set had a lighting feature (coffin) in addition to a unique paint and sculpt.
Here are the parts needed to pull off the coffin lighting effect in his “standard” release of the mod.
One cool white 44 base matrix bulb available below from comet.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/quick-connects
One 4” red light strip also available from comet. These are self adhesive.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/lighting-strips
There is a GI light below the coffin and a factory provided hole in the plastic just above that. It is the perfect place to power the lighting effect for the coffin. That circuit is also dimmed regularly during game play which also dims the coffin light. Looks great and and only costs a few bucks to implement. Just replace the factory GI bulb with the matrix one. Connect that to the red light strip that you stuck to the inside of your coffin on the left wall. Put it back together and you are done.[quoted image][quoted image]

The other option is to use the GI light that's hidden behind the gargoyle, and route the wiring along the factory wiring there, which is how it was done for the 40th Anniversary set.

#11742 7 days ago
Quoted from docquest:

If you get the new Elvira House of Horrors Neca box, the exclusive Elvira figure fits perfectly in the back right corner. [quoted image]

Did you use double sided tape or did you use a specific mounting screw to put it back there? Looks great!

#11743 7 days ago

Zach on TPS today confirmed no EHOH run in 2022. Pushed to 2023.

#11744 7 days ago
Quoted from thekaiser82:

Zach on TPS today confirmed no EHOH run in 2022. Pushed to 2023.

Well, not a surprise....... we knew Q1 2023 back in July.

The question now is: Will it get delayed farther into 2023?
I was thinking it'd be a March 2023 build, but they could make it a Halloween 2023 game, they have nothing to lose by pushing it back.

I wonder what the price is going to be now

#11745 7 days ago
Quoted from PinStalker:

Well, not a surprise....... we knew Q1 2023 back in July.
The question now is: Will it get delayed farther into 2023?
I was thinking it'd be a March 2023 build, but they could make it a Halloween 2023 game, they have nothing to lose by pushing it back.

And that's the problem. Stern just keeps kicking us in the teeth over and over but they know it doesn't matter because the allotment of EHOH will get sold no matter what. That's a BS attitude to have toward your customers. I was excited in May 2021, disappointed in Nov 2021, getting excited again in June 2022, and now I'm just straight pissed off. It's not a car, it's a pinball machine. WTAF, man!?

#11746 7 days ago
Quoted from Ruenin:

And that's the problem. Stern just keeps kicking us in the teeth over and over but they know it doesn't matter because the allotment of EHOH will get sold no matter what. That's a BS attitude to have toward your customers. I was excited in May 2021, disappointed in Nov 2021, getting excited again in June 2022, and now I'm just straight pissed off. It's not a car, it's a pinball machine. WTAF, man!?

star-wars-I can feel your anger.gif
#11747 7 days ago
Quoted from Ruenin:

And that's the problem. Stern just keeps kicking us in the teeth over and over but they know it doesn't matter because the allotment of EHOH will get sold no matter what. That's a BS attitude to have toward your customers. I was excited in May 2021, disappointed in Nov 2021, getting excited again in June 2022, and now I'm just straight pissed off. It's not a car, it's a pinball machine. WTAF, man!?

All true..... but here's the thing: everything always comes around eventually. While Stern is flying high now, their time in the sun is not eternal.
A couple years or whatever and people will finally have had enough. People may say this is all the same crap and people don't really care about price..... but that's not true. They are passing the Rubicon of 10K on essentially "Standard" machines, which is a big psychological number. It won't stop them immediately, but there will be attrition from here on out. When a real downturn comes, it's going to bite them hard (in sales volume) which actually (I believe) is part of the reason they are hiking so much now. 1st it lets them milk as much cash as they can in the short term while people are still throwing around money carelessly, and 2nd it sets them up as a true luxury item which is produced in small quantities for the rich when the economy goes belly up.

Even with this intelligent positioning, a decade long period of real deflation is going to rock Stern to it's foundations when the rich totally opt out and there are no buyers left at all. At that point they will regret screwing over the regular folk, but it will be too late and Gary could be croaked out by then anyway.

#11748 7 days ago

I have to admit I'm close to bailing. I've had an order for about 18 months, but I think it will be over 10k now.

#11749 7 days ago
Quoted from Boatshoe:

I have to admit I'm close to bailing. I've had an order for about 18 months, but I think it will be over 10k now.

And that's the point.......

I was talking to my distro a few months ago, and he let me know that when the time comes, Stern will call and ask him "how many do you have sold?".
He will be expected to give an accurate # of ONLY games with a sitting deposit. No allowance to have any in stock, no extras.

The more they hike, the more they delay, the smaller the number is going to be. Maybe they only want to do one week of production, and they will make people drop out until they get that target. How long are they making final GOTG and LZ? A week? Two? Single line only of course. Clear out the stocked parts and shut it down.

What would really suck is if they drag it out to mid year and then say "yeah, we're not doing it at all". Then it'd follow STH and Munsters in really crappy endings for in-demand pins.

#11750 7 days ago
Quoted from PinStalker:

And that's the point.......
I was talking to my distro a few months ago, and he let me know that when the time comes, Stern will call and ask him "how many do you have sold?".
He will be expected to give an accurate # of ONLY games with a sitting deposit. No allowance to have any in stock, no extras.
The more they hike, the more they delay, the smaller the number is going to be. Maybe they only want to do one week of production, and they will make people drop out until they get that target. How long are they making final GOTG and LZ? A week? Two? Single line only of course. Clear out the stocked parts and shut it down.
What would really suck is if they drag it out to mid year and then say "yeah, we're not doing it at all". Then it'd follow STH and Munsters in really crappy endings for in-demand pins.

I have had one on order forever since right now NIB is likely still going to be the same or cheaper than secondary. If they never do the run and quit production then secondary prices will soar. Then I will have sadness.

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