With all this delay on more machines and price increase, I wonder if the topper will still be rerun...
With all this delay on more machines and price increase, I wonder if the topper will still be rerun...
Kind of a moot question as there are no NIB EHOH to be had...and with all this backlash about the $500 increase they likely won’t even run it again. The game will probably never break 1100 total units.
Quoted from Happy81724:So how much is a decent price for a nib ehoh now?
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:I can’t even imagine where another ramp would even fit in this game. Any idea what the original design looked like?
It wasn’t a third ramp but a “Hollywood Hills” drop as part of the left ramp on the upper left. I think Dennis called it the double D ramp. He said it was removed because it didn’t flow as well as they liked (wasn’t convincing to me) but it sure looked cool and was a nice homage to the ramps on EATPM and SS.
There are better pics (I can’t find them at the moment) but you can see the sharp dips before the crate.
34E343ED-6FDE-4913-8DC7-2FC19680D6B0 (resized).jpegC72D9A6E-FFC8-4AB4-925F-25A25840CB46 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from RobertWinter:EHOH has three motors. Lift ramp, Crypt and Turret.
Actually four motors. You forgot the house diverter motor.
Dennis briefly mentioned there were ramp changes made by Stern after he submitted his design. Would love to hear details on what the original ramps looked like as well as what other things might have been removed from his original design.
As is the game is packed with mechs. It definitely has a higher BOM compared to other recent Stern premium games.
Quoted from docquest:as well as what other things might have been removed from his original design.
The other big item removed was a physical wheel of fate below the lower left outlane.
I mean, the game is still worth it even with a $500 price increase. It's the best, most complete Stern game in years. It's expensive, but compared to what else you can get for the price, I think it competes well.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Kind of a moot question as there are no NIB EHOH to be had...and with all this backlash about the $500 increase they likely won’t even run it again. The game will probably never break 1100 total units.
Wait, so they are never making them again if I ordered one even for 500 more?
They should have used that idea for the topper instead of the $1k paperweight haha
Quoted from jfh:The other big item removed was a physical wheel of fate below the lower left outlane.
Quoted from RobertWinter:EHOH has three motors. Lift ramp, Crypt and Turret.
I honestly can’t imagine those extras adds a ton to the cost for those extra motors per game. Would be nice if Stern actually said why we are charging an extra $500 dollars to fulfill orders from last year. No F ing way things changed 11 days into 2021 to justify this increase.
Just saw you posted some screen grabs showing the orignal left ramp. That looks wild. I'm assuming those are from the Expo talk. I was there but forgot about those pics. Maybe a clever modder with plastics experience can try and replicate that ramp?
Quoted from jfh:The other big item removed was a physical wheel of fate below the lower left outlane.
I think the wheel shown in that prototype pic looks pretty big and would make that part of the game overly crowded. I think the LCD version they have now is a nice compromise and works well.
I like the drop ramp design and would have made the game even better and really can’t see it costing much more but that is probably why they cut it a few pennies more cost not flow!
Quoted from docquest:Just saw you posted some screen grabs showing the orignal left ramp. That looks wild. I'm assuming those are from the Expo talk. I was there but forgot about those pics. Maybe a clever modder with plastics experience can try and replicate that ramp?
I think the wheel shown in that prototype pic looks pretty big and would make that part of the game overly crowded. I think the LCD version they have now is a nice compromise and works well.
Yes, those were from the Expo talk. Unfortunately I was too far back to get good shots.
I agree with you on the wheel - I don’t think it really fit the game and that the virtual version works better. But I was very disappointed the ramp got changed.
Unique game specific mechanisms and motors add the bulk of manufacturing costs for Stern. That’s why they avoid putting them in games hence everyone complaining about how “bare” other titles are or crying about the lack of “toys” if it’s not a magnet, spinning disc or a simple coil powered mech (ex. Lifting ramp / subway vuk) it’s expensive to add to a game.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:I honestly can’t imagine those extras adds a ton to the cost for those extra motors per game. Would be nice if Stern actually said why we are charging an extra $500 dollars to fulfill orders from last year. No F ing way things changed 11 days into 2021 to justify this increase.
Quoted from jfh:Yes, those were from the Expo talk. Unfortunately I was too far back to get good shots.
I agree with you on the wheel - I don’t think it really fit the game and that the virtual version works better. But I was very disappointed the ramp got changed.
Here's another pic of the original ramp vs the current one.
ramp1 (resized).pngQuoted from mpdpvdpin:Unique game specific mechanisms and motors add the bulk of manufacturing costs for Stern. That’s why they avoid putting them in games hence everyone complaining about how “bare” other titles are or crying about the lack of “toys” if it’s not a magnet, spinning disc or a simple coil powered mech (ex. Lifting ramp / subway vuk) it’s expensive to add to a game.
That all seems reasonable enough. However, what is not reasonable is that the exact same game with no new mechanisms or changes has been $7999 up until 2 days ago and as of yesterday it is now $8499. And that there are many of us customers who put down $2000 deposits months ago on this game at the $7999 price but have to now pay $500 more as of yesterday. It’s just simply bad business. What is the price going to be on it next week, another $500 more? I realize that I have a choice and can simply cancel my order. But this is not good treatment of loyal customers nor is it a good, ethical business practice in my opinion. This is to say nothing of the roll of the dice with no guarantee on whether the playfield will be of acceptable quality and not chip apart within a few hundred plays. I have won and I have also lost with this crap shoot with stern new in box games. I think many of the newer games are really well designed and are very fun. But after this recent move and decision that they’ve made with Elvira and Batman I am really starting to feel like the customer does not matter to them at all. Not trying to be too dramatic, it’s just quite disappointing.
Quoted from Macca101010:Here's another pic of the original ramp vs the current one.[quoted image]
Interesting. Looks like the left ramp had a diverter that sent it around the back of the house to the right inlane. The other path with the dip reminds me of White Water. Would have been cool, but still great as is.
Quoted from BeeGee6533:That all seems reasonable enough. However, what is not reasonable is that the exact same game with no new mechanisms or changes has been $7999 up until 2 days ago and as of yesterday it is now $8499. And that there are many of us customers who put down $2000 deposits months ago on this game at the $7999 price but have to now pay $500 more as of yesterday. It’s just simply bad business. What is the price going to be on it next week, another $500 more? I realize that I have a choice and can simply cancel my order. But this is not good treatment of loyal customers nor is it a good, ethical business practice in my opinion. This is to say nothing of the roll of the dice with no guarantee on whether the playfield will be of acceptable quality and not chip apart within a few hundred plays. I have won and I have also lost with this crap shoot with stern new in box games. I think many of the newer games are really well designed and are very fun. But after this recent move and decision that they’ve made with Elvira and Batman I am really starting to feel like the customer does not matter to them at all. Not trying to be too dramatic, it’s just quite disappointing.
Really is a dick move to pull this on is who put down a deposit and already paying more than the normal premium cost point of $7699 by over $300 now plus another $500. That’s bull sh!t.
I agree with you that it is bad business. They ought to have asked $8499 at release or retired the title if they felt it was too costly for them to continue production.
Quoted from BeeGee6533:That all seems reasonable enough. However, what is not reasonable is that the exact same game with no new mechanisms or changes has been $7999 up until 2 days ago and as of yesterday it is now $8499. And that there are many of us customers who put down $2000 deposits months ago on this game at the $7999 price but have to now pay $500 more as of yesterday. It’s just simply bad business. What is the price going to be on it next week, another $500 more? I realize that I have a choice and can simply cancel my order. But this is not good treatment of loyal customers nor is it a good, ethical business practice in my opinion. This is to say nothing of the roll of the dice with no guarantee on whether the playfield will be of acceptable quality and not chip apart within a few hundred plays. I have won and I have also lost with this crap shoot with stern new in box games. I think many of the newer games are really well designed and are very fun. But after this recent move and decision that they’ve made with Elvira and Batman I am really starting to feel like the customer does not matter to them at all. Not trying to be too dramatic, it’s just quite disappointing.
Quoted from rockrand:I like the drop ramp design and would have made the game even better and really can’t see it costing much more but that is probably why they cut it a few pennies more cost not flow!
Personally I just don’t think the dip ramp worked correctly. A fast shot would easily go airborne and smack the up side of the ramp. The ramp wouldn’t last long with that type of abuse. I believe that was the real reason why it was pulled.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Kind of a moot question as there are no NIB EHOH to be had...and with all this backlash about the $500 increase they likely won’t even run it again. The game will probably never break 1100 total units.
Does anyone know how many have been produced up to now?
Approximately 1070
Quoted from KrisGonzo:Does anyone know how many have been produced up to now?
Quoted from BeeGee6533:That all seems reasonable enough. However, what is not reasonable is that the exact same game with no new mechanisms or changes has been $7999 up until 2 days ago and as of yesterday it is now $8499. And that there are many of us customers who put down $2000 deposits months ago on this game at the $7999 price but have to now pay $500 more as of yesterday. It’s just simply bad business. What is the price going to be on it next week, another $500 more? I realize that I have a choice and can simply cancel my order. But this is not good treatment of loyal customers nor is it a good, ethical business practice in my opinion. This is to say nothing of the roll of the dice with no guarantee on whether the playfield will be of acceptable quality and not chip apart within a few hundred plays. I have won and I have also lost with this crap shoot with stern new in box games. I think many of the newer games are really well designed and are very fun. But after this recent move and decision that they’ve made with Elvira and Batman I am really starting to feel like the customer does not matter to them at all. Not trying to be too dramatic, it’s just quite disappointing.
Agreed. Terrible way to do business. Screwing over customers is never smart to do but it seems Stern does it repeatedly because they think they can get away with it withittle to no competition. If Stern was at least ethical, they would have at least honored the price for those that have had deposits down for months now.
Stern better hope CGC doesn't decide to hire some of their designers and make NIB games or they will see a mass exodus of customers tired of the greed and BS.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I think the test balloon was the $1000 topper that sold out quickly. At least they didn't try to squeeze another $200 on top of that.
They will.
Quoted from BeeGee6533:This is a horrible way to treat loyal customers who pay insane amounts of money for these machines. It’s wrong. It’s kind of mean-spirited.....
Quoted from cooked71:......and absolutley not surprising given Stern's track record. Just another bend over and take it moment from Stern reflecting the complete lack of serious competition and a hot market.
I’ve been a very loyal customer and supporter of stern(among other companies like JJP). I like their games. I have no hate towards them at all. Quite the contrary. I admire their creations for the most part and give them lots of my hard earned money(I’m not rich, just a big fan of pinball). But one can only take so much before they reach a breaking point and stop being a loyal customer. The playfield situation is bad. It’s a real problem that they don’t remedy properly for their customers...But OK, I’m trying to stay with ya and keep flippin’. The prices are insanely high for premiums that often don’t have a ton of stuff in them...But OK, the code is good and I may enjoy the theme. But now this? Every customer has a breaking point. I guess that breaking point is different for everyone but I’d hope we’re getting close to it with this kind of treatment. Sorry for hijacking the EHoH owner’s thread. I was supposed to be one with my deposit. Not too sure anymore.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Personally I just don’t think the dip ramp worked correctly. A fast shot would easily go airborne and smack the up side of the ramp. The ramp wouldn’t last long with that type of abuse. I believe that was the real reason why it was pulled.
Once the get the vacuforming mold done I doubt a curvy ramp would cost much more than a flat one. I also think the decision to go simplier was probably based more on performance than cost.
Even with the straight ramp a lot of people had issues with getting alignment to the trunk just right. I think that big dip would have made it a lot harder to get consistent good transfers from the ramp to the trunk.
Ah, I feel doom coming. My Elvira is leaving on Friday. I sold it under the impression that Stern was going to make another run of these in March, and that 2nd-hand prices would go back down to September levels. Boo. But, I'm a man of my word, and so the deal is done in spite of this new info. Hopefully, Stern will surprise us and not just stop with this upcoming run of games.
I have a hard time believing that they won't run more Elvira's when they're so in demand. Stern's been doing this so long, I seriously doubt that they could've screwed up the BOM on these so much that they're not making money hand-over-fist on them. It is a Kapow game though, so I have no idea how the numbers work on these. I always assumed the extra cost on these boutique games covered Kapow's fees. But maybe not?
Still, I'll be picking up a nice Congo with my Elvira money, so I still have something to be excited for.
Quoted from DakotaMike:Ah, I feel doom coming. My Elvira is leaving on Friday. I sold it under the impression that Stern was going to make another run of these in March, and that 2nd-hand prices would go back down to September levels. Boo. But, I'm a man of my word, and so the deal is done in spite of this new info. Hopefully, Stern will surprise us and not just stop with this upcoming run of games.
I have a hard time believing that they won't run more Elvira's when they're so in demand. Stern's been doing this so long, I seriously doubt that they could've screwed up the BOM on these so much that they're not making money hand-over-fist on them. It is a Kapow game though, so I have no idea how the numbers work on these. I always assumed the extra cost on these boutique games covered Kapow's fees. But maybe not?
Still, I'll be picking up a nice Congo with my Elvira money, so I still have something to be excited for.
Good for you sticking to your word. If only Stern had the same integrity and perspective.
Quoted from BeeGee6533:Every customer has a breaking point. I guess that breaking point is different for everyone but I’d hope we’re getting close to it with this kind of treatment.
Don’t take it too personal. Good to set limits unless you have endless money to burn.
Games will change hands and patience pays off.
Quoted from Vino:Don’t take it too personal. Good to set limits unless you have endless money to burn. Games will change hands and patience pays off.
Good advice!
Quoted from BeeGee6533:Good advice!
Well, I think the secondary market is to blame as much as stern for price increase as well as covid. They should of honored pre sale orders for sure, and I hope people can get their deposits back. However, if you don't have a contract or sales agreement for a set price , it might be difficult to do. Hope it works out for all , its a great game.
Decided to keep my preorder for a premium. Talked to the wife and kids and they want to get it. We won’t lose a lot on it if we decide to sell in the future and my wife agreed.
It’s a great pin and would hate missing out on it and pay near retail or more later for a used one if it comes up for sale near me. Don’t like to gamble and rather get the one with less risk of not happening.
I am pissed they jacked up the price but the pin is so worth getting. No pin is must have as far as life and death, but would hate not having it in our collection
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Decided to keep my preorder for a premium. Talked to the wife and kids and they want to get it. We won’t lose a lot on it if we decide to sell in the future and my wife agreed.
It’s a great pin and would hate missing out on it and pay near retail or more later for a used one if it comes up for sale near me. Don’t like to gamble and rather get the one with less risk of not happening.
I am pissed they jacked up the price but the pin is so worth getting. No pin is must have as far as life and death, but would hate not having it in our collection
You'll not regret it. I finally beat it came from space and it was so cool when,,,,,,,, ,, cant tell ya
Quoted from DakotaMike:It is a Kapow game though, so I have no idea how the numbers work on these. I always assumed the extra cost on these boutique games covered Kapow's fees.
Elvira HOH is not a Kapow game.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:You'll not regret it. I finally beat it came from space and it was so cool when,,,,,,,, ,, cant tell ya
I am not the best player but getting better lol. We played it at Tilt Studios and the family loves it. Even my son with autism said it’s his favorite one there and they have a nice amount of pins Iron Maiden, JP, AC/DC, GOTG, Star Trek, and more.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Sounds soooooooooo much better with a woofer.
Woof
A46BC1B9-833C-40BE-80DB-0DD00C1D225E (resized).jpegQuoted from Hayfarmer:Sorry to hear of your sons problems. If this game helps, then who cares what it costs? Go for it!
I appreciate that, very kind of you to say. He’s a great kid. I have Parkinson’s and it helps me also with my health deteriorating. Playing gives me a great escape from my problems and just makes me happy to have and play them if that makes sense. Worse things I could spend money on like drugs and alcohol.
I turn 50 on the 17th and we are going to the arcade for my birthday. I can’t wait. Growing old is mandatory but growing up is not.
Distributor just informed me of price increase of $500. Just cancelled my order, get some perspective, they act as if they have you by the balls, $1000 toppers?... c’mon, are you that desperate? grow some balls lemmings, embarrassed that I’m part of this consumer group. When do we take a stand and send a message? Tell em to go fuck themselves... life is too short to be held hostage...ciao!
Quoted from pinrock:Distributor just informed me of price increase of $500. Just cancelled my order, get some perspective, they act as if they have you by the balls, $1000 toppers?... c’mon, are you that desperate? grow some balls lemmings, embarrassed that I’m part of this consumer group. When do we take a stand and send a message? Tell em to go fuck themselves... life is too short to be held hostage...ciao!
Not a lemming and I have balls. But my family and I love the pin a lot. And for me it’s worth looking like a lemming to see the joy and happiness on my kids and wife faces on getting Elvira in the collection.
It sucks what Stern is doing, but this pin is a must have for my family. You can disagree all you want with me, but seeing my kids and wife happy playing will be worth it.
Any other game that will be easier to get I would definitely cancel, but I don’t think many will pop up for sale near me and if they do it won’t be much lower than NIB. price. I love Led Zeppelin but a hard pass on the pin, value not there for me, but Elvira, it is.
Quoted from docquest:Elvira HOH is not a Kapow game.
Damn, that's right. I keep forgetting that. It's a Stern boutique game, but not actually a Kapow one. Though it is kind of a Whizbang production, what with Nordman and Freres on it.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Personally I just don’t think the dip ramp worked correctly. A fast shot would easily go airborne and smack the up side of the ramp. The ramp wouldn’t last long with that type of abuse. I believe that was the real reason why it was pulled.
It's almost the exact same ramp as he did in Whitewater. Worked fine there.
I feel for those of you in a quandary about ordering a Premium (or keeping your existing order) after this unprecedented price hike.
For those worried about losing a non-refundable deposit, don’t. At minimum you had a verbal contract with your dealer (more likely an invoice/email showing price and deposit) which has been broken if the price has changed so, absent a signed contract that says otherwise, you are entitled to a refund.
For those of you that stay in - be relentless with your dealer and Stern if you see any significant issues when you get your game (e.g. playfield defects) and don’t be shy about using the effective 10% price increase as justification for holding them to a reasonable standard. It probably won’t make a difference but tie it to the increase.
Most won’t have a significant problem and will have a build with the production fixes for problems that annoyed early owners (most notably the VUK alignment). You will be getting a game that will be considered a classic of this pinball generation and a game that will have timeless appeal even when the character of Elvira fades. You can’t say that about many, if any, recent Stern games (other than Batman 66). For the most part you may remember the theme in a few years from other titles but you won’t remember the game.
If you really enjoy the game it will likely be a keeper making the sting of the price increase will diminish over time. Remember, you will also have dodged the bullet that every early adopter of a Stern game deals with - “will the code end up being good?” You know how awesome the code is now and don’t have to worry that you’ll end up with a great looking game with a dream theme but crappy code.
I went through a similar dilemma when I was in on an LE day one, cancelled it and then scrambled to find another. I thought the price was nuts and was very worried about possible playfield issues. Today I don’t regret my purchase at all. Elvira may very likely be my last Stern pin - and possibly my last pin - for a number of reasons, but if I was buying now the price increase almost certainly wouldn’t deter me.
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