I too would like pf pics
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I think the LE pf looks pretty barren to be honest. Looks like a standard fan layout and more what I would expect in the PRO model.
Funniest thing out of all this is the Spooky Haunted House Party name for Danesi #2. Make you wonder which cam first?
Quoted from jfh:I suspect MSRP is 7899/9599/15k for Premium/LE/Signature Edition (not Super LE)
Indeed similar to Batman (three levels/no Pro/same playfield features) but no topper. Despite the price, I think the SEs will sell out pretty quickly to Elvira fans, though I can’t personally make that $5k leap.
I’ve been told the leaked pictures don’t do the game justice, so I’m looking forward to see what comes next.
I am really bummed to hear it will be BM66 type pricing. I mean that has been the rumor forever, but I was hopeful we would see the pro model (esp after the leaked pics sure look more pro like)
Maybe that castle does some super cool toy feature?
I like the theme and idea, but when I have to compare to WONKA in price then Wonka is gonna win out for me.
Quoted from MikeS:KME team or Lyman on software
the real question... will be ever see the dream team on a game?
and when we do... will it actually be a theme worth their efforts? (seems they like to use the name of the designer/code team to sometimes sell a less desirable game)
Quoted from MikeS:If Sega didn't make a Sonic game in the 90's, I doubt we'd see one now. I don't think the Sonic property has aged as well as Mario/Nintendo.
i would LOVE a sonic game!
granted, I dug sonic more back then than the brothers, but I was a sega nut.
Quoted from MikeS:I am looking forward to the day that Lyman codes another cornerstone game as these more expensive games aren't as likely to be found on route and are too expensive to justify for home without a more affordable Pro option.
agreed and hoping Jim gets one for us to play on route! He got BM66, so would hope this is in his budget also.
Another great thing about having 2 local operators that put out and maintain the new stuff; better chance that we all get to play everything.
Hell, between Madison Pinball and Jim... I dont remember the last game that has not been put on route in town.
Quoted from robotron:funny how distributors said the same about beatles. they are almost sold out!
yet people seem to still trust them when they say it time and time again...
At this point, I think the most important question to confirm is 'WHO is on code and how far along is it?'
*well beyond the obvious question of 'has the pf issue been fixed?'
Quoted from benheck:(granted probably just the LE)
I though these are all identical from a gameplay perspective?
wasnt BM66 all the same?
It does not give me much confidence when distributors are saying they "heard" clear coat is fixed, but then also only accept non-refundable or contestable forms of payment.
"I heard clear cost issue is resloved. payment Cash, check or bankwire"
I think it would be smart for Stern to actually issue a statement IF they have found the root cause of the issue and have addressed it.
From the general consensus I am getting the idea that lots like what they see (besides the price) but are not buying until they have confirmed the clearcoat/pf issues are resolved.
Quoted from Bud:I’m just mad I can’t justify one of these for my route, that’s all.
same brother
Just keep in mind that some of these people claiming le and sle are selling for even more... are the same people that told you Beatles was sold out everywhere...
Quoted from DJNOEL30:I know there is a lot of criticism around the hype of these games especially with the play field issues that are being reported here on Pinside. With that said as a home use buyer of these games and having purchased quite a few NIB Stern games since diving into this hobby I have yet to have any of the issues I have read about on these threads. The only adjustment to these NIB games that I make are factory add on’s like mirror blades or a simple lighting mod that is supported by the game. I’m really looking forward to getting the LE in the house, my first machine was Elvira and Party Monsters so I’m definitely a fan of the theme. I think this game will do really well and I can’t wait to get it here!
Happy for your excitement.
Since you have been one of the few lucky ones that has bought multiple NIB games and had zero issues, would you be willing to post up a bunch of pictures of your playfields and also your lifetime play counts?
I am curious if we can identify that your pf are made by a different manufacturer? also if you have limited plays so it is possible things are not appearing yet but may in the future.
I would guess it is a chance of both.
I would also guess that some home owners with high end LE stuff are not actually examining their games for these issues fully.
(not saying you are not, but IME some collectors rarely play game and even more rarely take off the glass to work on/get in close to see these issues)
Quoted from DJNOEL30:I have all the games that I have owned listed on my profile both current and prior collections. I typically carry 4-5 games at a time since that's all I really have room for. Other than the group get together's at the house I am the only player of the games, kids bang on it occasionally as well. I typically average 1500-2500 plays on a game before switching it out. I still have my Monster Bash LE (Sort of Stern) that I have put a little over 2000 plays on if pictures of that will help. My next two Sterns that I will have in the coming weeks will be JP Prem and Elvira LE.
of your current and previous games list, GB is the only one that had any issues and thise were very different (ghosting inserts)
Your MBle is actually made by CGC and Stern has nothing to do with it. CGC current pf seems very good, which makes sense since they have been doing it longer than anyone.
Keep and eye on your JP and EV3, as those will be the most suspect.
IME, Maiden and onwards are when things became much worse and it has gotten worse with each successive title.
finally got a chance to watch the stream a bit.
Only real comments are that the inner tube animation looks very odd, the game appears to shoot nice, the code is obviously still shallow, and the price seems high for what you get. I am guessing this will take a solid hit on secondary like Beatles has.
IF there are any pf issues then things will go very bad for this title (marketed to high end home collectors, premium and up, and the $ are big which brings bigger expectations for quality)
Lyman will be the backbone of this game.
played a bunch of games on ours yesterday. Fun to shoot but man is the code buggy and needs more to it SOON!
Long ball times and lots of multiballs from the first session.
Need to be able to turn OFF attract music in settings.
Ball search needs to be fixed so it actually frees stuck balls. I have a feeling those of us operating are going to be spending a lot of time with the glass off the first few months while we find and tweak things.
Quoted from robertmee:In the one long game I played today, had to intervene 3 times....Twice the ball sits behind the upright target and ball search doesn't release it. I think it was triggering the lock switch which raises the target, but the ball was falling out and sitting behind the target. The other time, the ball coming back down the left ramp, somehow ended up on top of the ramp where it curves back into the inlane.
But scoring seemed to be fairly well balanced.
Yeah. Game is pretty much a mess for current code and some pretty big design flaws. Two major things I have found. One is the opto under the main ramp that goes to cellar VUK is poorly designed and easily gets out of alignment. Once out of alignment that means you have to disassemble the whole house to get to topside opto. Just a really poor design.
The second appears to be a fatal Design flaw likely the result of sticking to BOM limits rather than caring about design. The drop target is not a controlled drop. And it acts as a pretty big stuck ball spot. The lock shot has a turn around ball guide that Has a flat spot which along with the one way gate causes slow rolling balls to get stuck. Then ball search kicks in and brings the drop target up which cause the ball to roll down behind it and become permanently stuck.
Lyman, if you are reading this please remove the drop target coil from ball search. There is no reason to ever bring it back up in ball search. Without a control coil to take it back down it becomes a permenant ball stuck spot.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:The fatal flaw you mentioned is a simple tweak to the tension spring on the wire gate under the left ramp. This is the gate before the opto lock in the garage. It was set to firm from the factory and traps the ball. Once corrected you'll never have an issue again. Yes, the gate has a spring on it. It is mounted on the left side of the gate. You can get to it if you remove the long left plastic ramp. Takes about 5 mins to correct.
yeah, I adjusted the tension steel spring on the one way gate to essentially make the spring a non-factor. There is still a good chance for stuck balls at the flat spot in the turn around and gate combo, esp w a slow moving ball.
Sadly, no adjustment is going to correct the lack of control coil on the drop target. That spot is still a poorly designed stuck ball situation.
A single controlled drop would be all that is needed to remove that ball stick. Then a ball search would always free a ball trapped behind the drop target.
Honestly, this is a really poor design and pretty frustrating on any game, let alone a game this expensive.
There is a bunch of pretty janky stuff on this game that is prone to failure. Turret motor already confused/broken/ stripped gears. Guessing the up/down ramp and the diverter in the back will also be failure points to look out for.
I really like how the game shoots and lots of cool features. Just frustrated with the really poorly design of "how" for these features and kind of amateur hour for some of the decisions for how to engineer certain things.
The lack of controlled drop and weird opto through the bottom of the mech with no real way to hold things in place are 2 things that even a junior engineer would red flag on day one.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:I’m not sure why you are bashing the turret motor at all. It hasn’t been programmed to do anything yet.
that is good to know. I had assume it was programmed and was supposed to move in a specific way.
Quoted from jfh:I guess I’m unclear as to what gate issue you reference. Can you detail what the problem/fix is if it’s different than adjusting the spring tension?
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:Love the photo. Can’t believe you removed the house. Didn’t realize the “wild women” graphic was even there. The flat spot isn’t hosing me up a bit. A simple mod of a shaped piece of lexan will fix you up if the pitch change doesn’t. The drop target will stay down unless a ball check starts up. The slightest bump should free the ball. I do agree with you that the drop target raise should be taken out of ball search. It is half the solution by itself.
This game is on route. So unfortunately I have been to the location pretty much daily to deal with these issues. Casual players dont know to power cycle the game to restart (nor should they need to: bad business to have a paying customer feel robbed by a game when it does this).
Game is honestly a mess for route play and has needed constant attention and many tweaks.
wrong photo uploaded.
Here is the "celler opto" issue.
When the top receiver moves, then the beam is broken. When the beam is broken, then the game thinks there is a ball in the vuk. The vuk shoots non-stop trying to clear the imaginary ball. This also results in constant points being scored.
Worst part is that this opto misalignment issue combined with the other real stuck balls means constant point scoring = no ball search to free a real stuck ball or send a chase ball.
I cant believe that that engineered this opto switch without ensuring proper alignment at all times.
This issue means you have to take apart the house to reallign the top opto reciever. Since nothing is holding it in exact position, you only have the single nut. It is only a mater of time before it rotates out of alignment and you have to repeat the fix. A little 3-d printer bracket to helkp keep the exact position should be issued by Stern ASAP. I am pretty sure many games are going to have issues with this.
EV3 opto (resized).jpghopefully these picture posts help other to diagnose when they have issues.
The opto issue is likely a cause for many problems (lost balls, confused game state, etc...) combined with the early code and general buggy nature of the code.
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:I do agree with you that the drop target raise should be taken out of ball search. It is half the solution by itself.
yeah, if anyone has the ability to get to Lyman, PLEASE let him know this ASAP.
Would be a big help to just have that addressed in code.
Quoted from jfh:whysnow My old eyes can’t read the text at the bottom of the pic. Can you post the text? Thanks.
just points out that the design of this opto has one side below the Vuk Mech and the beam shoots though a very small hole up to the top receiver portion.
The top reciever is only held in place with the single nut. Since a single point of placement, the opto can move left to right. Once the top portion of the opto moves out of alignment, then the beam is broken. This fouls up the whole game, confuses it, and the game thinks a ball is constantly in the VUK.
Quoted from Jvspin:Power cycling wouldn't clear a ball stuck behind the drop target would it?
no
However, it should help the game go through 4 "balls missing" searces upon trying to start a new game. At that point the game should determine the ball to be lost and adjsut to start a game with the assumption of 5 balls in the trough.
Unfortunately, when it does this then the stuck ball will get freed, resulting in 2 ball play. Then 1 ball drains and the flippers die thinking the player lost their ball. Then the now freed ball drains and the game realizes it is back on 6 ball play.
Essentially from the paying customers perspective, they get 1 game stolen form them with a stuck ball that the game cant recover.
Then they reboot and start a new game, only to have a ball stolen from them once the flipper go dead as it sees the first ball hit the trough (assuming they had freed the stuck ball)
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