Very much not the point. The point is, Stern is charging obscene amounts of money for a product that is not finished. We've seen this behavior in the video game industry for many years now and it's starting to piss people off. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this shit.

is lyman coding this ?

After watching the stream and thinking about it overnight it was with sorrow that I cancelled my LE

The game looks beautiful in video, Thanks Jack Danger for another super cool stream !
I have no doubt the finish will be stunning in real life.

I really like the shot layout and the features. The playfield looks awesome and is certainly a great shooter, Dennis and Greg did a superb job, and I am so happy that subways are back

I know that Lyman will make this a masterpiece with some very cool wizard modes and the best possible code.

The stream shows that the game is in its infancy with code and integration and that the B grade movie concept/storyboard has been developed and appears sound.

The deal breaker for me was audio and video did not grab me or want to engage my emotions at all. I know it will get better 10 fold with more movies and scenes to be integrated but the clips and audio left me feeling flat instead of excited. I understand there is a lot more to come but the way it's delivered now is not for me.
I prefer more dark overtones and hardcore action......... I would like to expand on that but the direction of the audio/video is done and I would be wasting my time.

I wish I had some constructive criticism to add, but I'm left feeling deflated.
So with a heavy heart I'm out of the club, for now anyway

I know that I may regret my decision later with only 32 LE's ( only 2 left ) coming to Australia as I've been pumped and wanting this title for sooooo long.

For those who are in I wish you well and know that if you have a little patience this game will super deep and deliver lots of fun.

Have a great weekend Pinsiders !
Ando

It's not that I don't share the view, it's just that I can't afford the view

Rob

Guys, I gotta say, i have a new pinball machine and its been in my house for 3 years.

The GB code update created an entirely new pinball machine.

Should we thank Dwight and Stern after 3 years? I have no idea but the game now is so great. I've been playing it all night.

Munsters can be updated?

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Despite all the negative BS, some of which is warranted, Stern pinball still creates some amazing pinball.

Congrats GB owners! Yes, Munsters needs some of the same treatment that GB has received. Needs a ton more show content to energize the basis of where it’s currently. Would be a darn (as Herman would say) shame if Stern didn’t do that.

Dude I never said Toy Story is better then Elvira lol. We don't even know if TS is happening. Now you are just making crap up and putting words in my mouth. I said I've become more selective with my NIB purchases, due to today's prices. I have no problem waiting to see how another game turns out (like TS) before making a purchase.

What are all the JJP fanboy comments I've made in this thread? Oh, that one about Stern being insane for charging more for Elivra LE then what JJP charged for POTC LE? Yeah as a Stern fanboy that one must have really bugged ya! I'll say it again, the asking price for Elvira LE is insane That doesn't mean I think the game is bad. I've praised the game as well multiple times. Still considering a premium purchase but will wait until the code is finished. I just waited nearly 33 months for GB code to be completed and I'm in no hurry to go through that experience again with another game.

Toy Story is happening, but with Pat doing it, the bigger concern should be that his design innovation is clearly running on empty. Wonka was a total zero for design innovation, which was ironic for a THEME about imagination. I love Toy Story, but I'm really concerned about another cookie-cutter plug-in-the-features-from-past-hits-and-call-it-good Lawlor game. I know Jack is just happy to have snagged him, but he really needs to challenge him to kick it up a notch instead of retreating to the safety of prior design features.

But that's it for Toy Story. I know this is an Elvira thread...

You hit it right on the nail, no innovation on WW. A good shooter, but that’s it, nothing more. Elvira appears to be not only a good shooter, but has nice amount of toys. Now just wish it would have had a couple of interesting wire-forms that Dennis is famous for doing on his other games. But it has spades of other fun stuff and love the B-movie content.

Well played, sir.... well played.

So I watched the Deadflip video again.

They played the game for 2 hours, and all we saw were 3 10-second intros of Elvira on-screen, one at the start of each of the modes/hauntings.

I was expecting her to be onscreen a LOT more than that. I really hope is a lot more video footage of Elvira going into this!

I wouldn’t say no innovation on ww. The wonkavision, the spinning gobstopper, the lighted wonka sign, which is interactive, and a screen that gives a ton of info. Elvira at the premium, le and sle levels has what? A spinning turret? jjp did better with the house in woz where the witches feet come out.

Stern should have put a better crate in this game (and jjp should have put a better factory) and they should have put something that holds the flashers, like the claws in SS. I have an Elvira premium on order, but after seeing the stream, even I’m having second thoughts. I’ll reserve judgement and a decision whether to cancel after seeing it at expo. With the exception of Munsters, stern has had a very good run with dp, maiden and jp, this one I’m just not sure about. Code can save a game, if happened with hobbit and bm66, both of which are pretty bare, but it took years to get there.

Agree with a lot of this - with the exception of not including Munsters in the good run of games. I like the way Munsters plays. Everything doesn't have to be a deep journey codefest for me to enjoy it. Heck I'd probably enjoy the new Elvira pin if I'd put one in my basement but what I have seen and pricing drives me off big time. I'd have been in had there been a pro model.

I agree Elvira's crate or trunk looks a bit subpar. The animations on the lcd hopefully will change... Nobody in the stream seemed too excited playing the game which is unusual. Makes me wonder how the game will play in person. I'll try to get to expo to see it first hand. I imagine it will be there.

Agee, my only complaint is not seeing enough of Elvira, she could be used so much more, the best part of scared stiff is her call outs.

If the ball doesn’t interact with a toy, like gobbstopper, wonkavision, lighted wonka sign, spinning house with feet coming out, do they even count??? The trouble I have with items on a PF that the ball doesn’t even touch, they’re not real toys. They are just mods. I’d rather buy your mods for a whole lot less money and install them myself.

On Elvira, the ball touches and interacts directly with the toys as they change state. That is what pinball is all about. Otherwise, spinning items or lights that the ball does not directly interact with are not real toys, with zero kinetic feel for the game. They just look nice, that’s it. Elvira does a much better job of kinetic satisfaction IMO, because the toys and the ball are actually connected in a fun way. Just like MM castle changes state or BM66 crane’s ball interacts with the players steel ball. Interactive toys have tons more satisfaction, than spinning, lighted, non interactive decorations like your example of WW or WOZ. Exception is the flying monkey that picks up the ball, now that is cool or POTC cannon, that is wow, as it flies over and hits the other ship.

What are the good amount of interactive toys then in Elvira by your definition? The up / down ramp doesn't count then, nor the spinning top on the house, heck not even the bash target. So what's left, gargoyles? Those shouldn't count either then as the ball only hits stationary targets in front of them. Guess theres no interactive toys? Lol.

What you are failing to realize is even items that don't directly interact with the ball add to a games world under glass. Many of those items still light up, move, interact with game modes, and are critical to making a game fun. Even non moving items such as detailed 3D molds are critical to a games world under glass. Adding a bunch of cheesy 3D printed mods or gaudy action figures isn't the same thing. 3D printed mods and action figures don't interact with game code either. Please let me know when you can replicate the detail of the Wonka Vision toy, and all of the code integration it has with the camera and game.

Anyone complaining about the callouts does not understand how Lyman Sheets codes a game. The call outs will come, but when it is closer to done.

They prob should not have rushed the stream. If I was involved in this pin I would hate reading all the comments on this thread.

You think the game is going to be that different (from the stream) in 2 weeks?

Wish I shared your optimism.

You’re kidding right??? Nothing that does not interact with the ball is critical. The world under glass can do without decorations. What directly interacts with the ball is the only thing that matters in pinball. Everything else is just decoration. WW is full of nice decorations that do not interact with the ball. Elvira is loaded with toys that interact with the ball. Come on get real. I don’t need to point them all out, you can see them. Lol, youre using wonkavision as an example? It does nothing with the ball nor is it critical to the game in anyway. What does popping your face on a screen do? Nothing and becomes tiresome after the first few times. No one wants their mug on the screen while they’re trying to enjoy pinball. I’m sure you’re joking again or realize what you’re saying makes little sense, but only has entertainment value. So thanks for that.

I've only bought one NIB pin (Munsters Premium) but I learned a hell of a lot from doing that. NIB financially makes no sense. Final code will take years to be delivered and I just can't justify paying 8k for something that might have potential down the road.

We all thought this pin was baking for 2 years, in reality it was sitting on a shelf and it was too early for even a stream based the amount of issues and level of code.

From now on I'm sitting on the sidelines and waiting to see how the code develops for other games and then getting HUO.

We can bitch on a forum all we want, but until people vote with their wallets and say NO, Stern will continue to milk us. LEs sell out before basic game play reveals happen. That's ridiculous.

I have no problem with their pricing, but for what we pay all we get over the years are pooling/ghosting playfields, splitting cabs, and slow code support. No thanks.

Using your own definition of interactive toys it looks like Elvira has none! Again you are missing the point of toys that don't interact directly with the ball interacting with the game, with game code, and the player.

Your favoritism towards Stern and hate towards JJP is downright gross by the way. You know it's true, the post below you made proves it. Damn lol.

Capture (resized).JPG

It took Lyman 2 years to finish Batman. While I don’t think he will take that long, I don’t expect much for a few months and probably a year until it’s done. Call outs will be added with each release. Usually they are about 4 weeks or more apart with him.

I finally got a chance to watch some of the dead flip reveal and I have to say I can’t believe so many people are whining and complaining about the deadheads. The deadheads seems to be a good concept to me and very integrated into the theme. The whole premise of the game is to get the 12 villains back into the crypt. It seems pretty logical to have their head bouncing around on the screen like a ghost while you’re doing that. What other options are there really? I didn’t think it was bad at all. I do think they could make it much cooler if they made the deadhead fade a little each time you hit a shot to put them away like a real ghost, I think that would look awesome plus then you wouldn’t see the bright image the whole time of the dead head. On the pool floaties I kind of agree they don’t really fit the theme but they’re not annoying they’re just out of place. It looks like the pop bumpers have creatures on them perhaps they should just change the floaties to those creatures popping on the screen each time you hit a pop. And since we know they can trigger each individual switch to a video response they could make each pop show their own character. Other than that I thought it looked great and I’m excited to get my LE.

I watched most of the stream live. I am a huge Elvira fan and have owned my Scared Stiff for close to 8 years. I was super excited to see this game in action. The game looks fun to shoot and has potential, but as it stands it's a let down. Code looks embarrassingly early considering the game is about to ship (which is par for the course with Stern). I thought it would be much further along since Lyman hasn't done a pin since BM66.

The biggest issue for me currently (outside of the early code) is the lack of Elvira! This game needs a lot more call outs and her presence. For me, that's what makes Scared Stiff... All the fun double entendre and witty/campy dialogue (not to mention it's a fun game to shoot). I really hope they have A LOT more Elvira to come as the code matures. Until that time I'll kick back, watch what happens, and play my Scared Stiff.

This is 100% dead on. It's pretty
clear that a lot of folks are not familiar with the history here.
They already made Scared Stiff -
This seems a lot closer
To
What it should have been all along...

I wasn't that psyched about the game at first
But reading the TWIP
Synopsis - it is REALLY ambitious. Awesome

I hope you are right. And I don't presume to know how Lyman or anyone else codes for pinball. I don't have the imagination needed to think about modes or rules. I do think its fascinating to listen to the programmers talk through their games. But, I know I would be rubbish at making code. So I hope you're right. The only thing that does scare me though is the fact these games are ready to ship out soon. So the state of the code now and shipping I don't think much can/will change. Wish it was more on point before they ship.

yeah the bouncing heads make sense as they represent where you're at in the graveyard mode, i agree that it would be cool to seem them fade and become ghosts as the shots progress, but it's really not as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

the pop bumper area is a pool. the bumpers represent floaties. I enjoy the sounds it makes when it goes into the area because it makes you feel like you're hanging out in the pool area for a brief moment. if you replace the float animations with bats you lose the immersion I feel these artists are trying to create.

this looks incredible. a beautiful and well thought out Elvira machine that you can put Billions of points on.

Anyone considering cancelling a deposit based on stream shoot over a pm.
She looks as good as ever to me.

Lyman games have always changed a LOT after release. Not so much for Dwight (except GOT and GB), Elwin/Rick, Sexton, or Tanio.

Based on Pinside history, I'm presuming you're new to this hobby (seen new Pinsiders that have been here 1 yr but in the hobby for 25+).

That being said, TWD was known as the Walking Dud because the code honestly was "meh" upon release. About 1.25 years later with Lyman reportedly working on the game in his basement at home (never verified it), holy shit, TWD became a powerhouse monster which shined when Bowen did a tutorial for it in....2015 October if I recall correctly. After that video was released, you couldn't find the fucking game for like half a year because everyone was ordering "quantity 2" at their fave distributor.

EHOH, 3lvira, E3, wtfever-it's-called will shine when Lyman calls is "done." He tends to make a BIG release, and then some "polish it up" code releases come further down the road. Give it about 1 year from now, and the game will rock (code), unlike how long it takes other games. Great example:

GB....was that almost 3.5 years, guys? Some of your kids prolly finished high school and went off to college in that time, not to mention a different President was in office, MCU Civil War had just come out, etc.

Is there an official announcement showing all the models ?

50 super LE,s ?

I’m lost

Yes they announced 50 SEs and 400 LEs

https://sternpinball.com/game/elviras-house-of-horrors/

Premium
Limited Edition (400)
Signature Edition (50)

There’s a freaking flipper on the spinning house in Woz, and you loop the ball around the house. Doesn’t get much more interactive than that.

Not to mention the other upper playfield with full sized flipper and knock open doors + loop. And a bashable witch that moves up and down. And a crystal ball with video.

Have you ever even seen a Woz? Or a Dialed In? How about video in line drop targets, among other things? Not just interactive but innovation.

Stern makes fine, fun games. But stay in your depth. They can’t touch JJP for innovation.

Shhh, Let them learn the hard way.

Not to hijack this thread, but a quick response.

Wonkavision/wonkavator is BS. They could have EASILY been better feature by substituting mini hyper-ball sized balls when you shoot a large ball toward the wonkavator, creating the illusion that wonkavision shrunk the ball, then reversing it when the balls are released.

The gobstopper is essentially the ToM trunk. No innovation there.

A screen? You're citing a screen that provides extra information as innovative? C'mon now. They COULD have added another camera or two at playfield level and put up video of the ball live on that screen and then saved cool clips for attract mode on the big screen. That would have been imaginative.

Based on his work at JJP. Pat is out of actual new ideas. Well, I guess he had one - putting the headphone jack and controls by your knees instead of leaving it in the coin door where it was much more convenient. But that idea objectively sucked, so it doesn't count. Jack needs to challenge him to see if there's any actual new ideas in his head instead of blowing smoke based on his iconic design history in B/W days.

Thank you for making another point so well, referring to the upper right WOZ flipper more appropriately; naming it a “freaking flipper”. Freak is correct: what does the upper right ”freak” flipper do with the ball in WOZ? It just circles around ad nauseam. It does absolutely nothing with the house. Zero point to just flipping it around and around the house. Never touches the house and becomes very monotonous. On Elvira the ball hits for example the crypt and it changes state time to time: it has a reason being there for the ball, not just a decoration like your WOZ or WW examples. There are other ball interactive examples on Elvira I don’t need to list here.

You point to the WOZ witch that just pops up and down: again the ball never touches the witch. There is almost no innovation there. In WOZ the ball is mainly shot straight up the middle, so much so, they had to put a post in the middle of the drain to help stop the tons of STDMs. Could go on about the geometry shot mess on that table. WOZ geometry is just plain poor. WW geometry is much better, even though it lacks any real ball interactive innovation. But this is an Elvira thread, so let’s continue this discussion if you and Panzer would like to via PM. Let’s not hijack the Elvira thread with all your JJP talk. Just PM me please.

(The post by Vireland right above this post makes many of my same points.)

.

Now you’re just talking out of your ass. Everyone loves Maiden because of the looping shots. People criticize Beatles but, wait for it, they love them looping shots, and wish Sea Witch could loop like that. Woz has a mini flipper that loops a ball around a spinning house. It’s rad, and you just don’t get it.

JJP talk on a new Stern pinball thread.

Came here looking to read the sh@t about Elvira. Can the JJP apologists and supporters move on to another thread?

True Ice

But I'd rather have owned something fun for the last 3 years.

I put Elvira on my wishlist. Which is really just a list of games that I wish to eventually end up with solid QC & code.

Hope to see this evolve into something great!

(I am jealous you're getting this game)

Dude! Totally agree! What a freakin blast finally!

I’m a sucker for haunted houses ! Lyman will get it done nicely

Absolutely. If you watch the stream, Lyman stated that the code was linear and minimized for the purpose of the stream, that there is far more to the production code. Perhaps Dead-Flip should have put a disclaimer about the code upfront...that this code is not representative of the current production code.

Jack did say that more than once during the stream.

Yes, you hijacked the thread with your bizarre passive aggressive behavior due to not being able to handle any criticism against Stern. This is a general game thread. Comparisons between other games and companies will be normal. Elvira LE is nearly $10k, yes $10k, so at that high price again comparisons between other similarly priced games is normal. To not question anything regarding features, toys, quality, etc for the price isn't the way this works. The same thing happens in general game threads for games made by other companies.

Questioning any of the items above doesn't mean that a game sucks. Many of us agree today's NIB games look like fun but also question what we are getting for that price. A critical discussion about that topic is not only normal but also warranted. If you don't like that type of discussion I recommend sticking with club threads.

No. I bet it will be a good game. The house looks incredible. Ghostbusters, for example, ranks wayyyyy lower than monster trash. That game is pretty, but not fun at all. Ghostbusters should be a top 5 game. Munsters isn’t the best game I’ve ever played but I’m not sorry I got it. Elvira will be fun, I am sure

The disclaimer that they put the machine into a “linear” mode to simplify the stream/presentation doesn’t resonate with me. If the code was mature they would show it. Can we honestly envision a conversation a day before the steam where someone suggests they should remove or hide functionality because they’re worried consumers will be confused? In some ways, the fact they tried to spin it worries and annoys me more than they’re taking a game to market with immature code. It’s the cover up that gets you....

Do we have faith in Lyman’s ability to make a great game? Yes.

Do we have faith that Stern will give him the time to do that before moving on to the next thing? I’m not sure.

And the plastic simple ramps? At this price point? Wtf.

I have an LE on order. I’m not a huge Elvira fan. I was drawn to the haunted house, but I’m leaning towards canceling.