(Topic ID: 265033)

Electronics help: How can to quiet chimes and bells with resistors?

By System-J

4 years ago


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  • 40 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by System-J
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#1 4 years ago

Hi!
So I'm isolating in my semi-detached house. I want to play my pins more often but I'm also trying to be courteous to my wife and neighbours (even though my wife doesn't mind too much and I hate my one nutcase neighbour, I still would prefer not to cause any more tensions than we already have--alright, alright, I'll get on with it already):
So, I've heard people refer to the possibility of adding resistors to chimes and bells, but I can't find any specifics. For instance what value of resistor and does it matter what lug it goes on?
So more specifically, and I'm not sure if this matters, but I have a Stern Stars, a Gottlieb Dragon (retrofited with chimes), and a Williams Space Mission. I also have a Black Knight and Grand Lizard I'd like to quiet the bells on.
I've already tried the cloth trick but they're still not quiet enough. I've also added rubber and tape to the bells (and have tried other things) but again would like to try a resistor to find out the effect.
If anyone has advice, I'd love to hear from you. Even if it's just a electronics theory guess.
Thanks ahead of time.

#4 4 years ago

I'm hoping not to have to go that far. Sound is a big part of a game for me. Although I love pinball, I find the sound of a ball rolling around a playfield disappointing.

#5 4 years ago

Ya, I usually use a Terry cloth or something similarly sized. I fold it so it hangs over the chime box a bit and use electrical tape to hold it from sliding off.

#11 4 years ago

Thanks guys for the replies. Very helpful (especially the pillow one ).
So the reason I'd like to find another solution than using tape, rubber, felt and/or towels is because I *think* it might be dampening the sound in a non-ideal way. For instance, when they are not dampened, say in a bar or someones carpeted personal arcade, chimes (and bells) have a sharp PING with a reverberation after. I find using tape and cloth takes this away. Plus the high pitch isn't the sound that travels through wall, it's more of the initial impact (treble vs bass). So, overall, I just want to turn down the volume without losing the sweet PINGS (Besides, putting more flammable things in a pin doesn't seem ideal).
So I want to experiment (safely as possible) on reducing the power of the coil themselves. I found one post from ages ago where someone was recommending a ceramic resistor for a out of control VUK (I think...anyways he was trying to weaken the coil):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-weaken-a-coil
One of the posters recommended trying a 25 watt 4 ohm ceramic resistor. And BigAl touched on this above (thanks BigAl!). What I was hoping for is someone who has already tried something like this to recommend a value and share what the effect was.
I suppose I could look up the ohms of the coil, then get a resistor for however much percentage I want to reduce the sound by.
Looking through my supplies, I only have a 10W680RJ ceramic resistor. I was hoping to try it just to see, but it might be under wattage and too high of ohms. Separately, it seems that 25watts are much less common than 10 watts overall. So does anyone know if 10 watts is too weak, or are people just going overkill with the 25watts? Or even any kind of links to how to calculate what values would be needed?

#23 4 years ago

frenchmarky @ Ya, I'd rather not mess with them either, but they are way too loud for my house. I've even installed rugs on the walls in some spots and added sound absorbing material (fireproof) in empty spots in the cabinet. It's not enough.
Re: raising grommets. Messing with those things also changes the sound. Williams chimes are a good example. They often sound horrible because the fasteners and washers get worn.

@TheWiz: You're awesome to offer and those 8ohm 20watts might work perfect, but I'm up in Canada and shipping up here is more complicated and expensive. I'd pay the shipping but I'd still feel like it would be too much trouble to put you through. But what's your thoughts, theoretically, on what value would be to reduce the force from 30-60%? ...even if it's a guess.

Neal_W : I've heard about and contemplated using a container around the box. It makes sense that it'll work. I've hesitated due to adding any flammable material such as carboard around anything that might arc (I know it sounds paranoid, but I'd rather error on safety. My wife calls me "safety guy"). I'm not ruling out using something less ignitable like mdf, but it seems like a lot more work than soldering on a resistor.

@YeOldPinPlayer: You must be a scientist or engineer. This is defiantly the way to approach this. I'll try to brainstorm and think about those things as I go along.

@Mikat11: I usually use 2 pillows when I sleep making a "head sandwich". But now you got me thinking I'm doing it all wrong. I'll try placing a box over my head tonight--maybe cut a semicircle hole for around my neck.

jibmums :I'm pretty sure that'll have a similar effect to the towels and reduce/kill the high PING reverb.

@slochar: RE:solenoids hitting their coil stops.: Yes, absolutely. I've already done other things such as sound absorbing (fireproof) materials in the box (in empty areas) and rubber feet. You can do only so much for that but the chimes will often still be too loud, they can travel through the house and find thinner wall to go through. On my SS's I have the volume down to under 10% and it's fine. But Pins were made for arcades and the sounds were defaulted at loud to probably attract attention--for some reason they didn't take nostalgic future collectors who have hardwood floors into account. Jerks. Couldn've at least installed a volume knob on chimes and bells.

@xsvtoys: My latest project was a BK. Every board had problems! The sound was the last thing I worked on because of parts and going through the game in a methodical manner. The game SUCKS without sound. I would play the PAPA gameplay video when I played it. . Luckily I've got it working now and having Mark Ritchie laugh at me has been my most satisfying Pin repair I've done to date.

#24 3 years ago

Ok, so I've done a bit more coil specific research hoping to make an order for resistors.
So I've able to find the ohms resistance from John Jukes website:
https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

So the stern stars chimes coils (n-31 2000) are 48.8 ohms
The Gottlieb dragon retrograde chimes (a-17876) are 24 ohms
The bk bell (sm-27 1000) is 10.6

Can anyone give any advice, electronic theory, or website leads on how I would go about figuring out what resistance I should try?
And it seems people recommend a high wattage resistor, how would I find out what wattage is being passed through the coils?

Also, I know some basic electrical theory, and I thought it was that the current actually flows from negative to positive. So, I've seen in other posts saying to connect the resistor to the positive lead. Can anyone confirm this is the correct way to install a resistor?

#29 3 years ago

Thanks for the response guys, great advice! I've been taught and have self-learned ohm's law a few times, now I have to do the tough step and to put it into practice. Looks like I've got some homework to do.

barakandl : you only used 3w resistors? Everyone seems to recommend over 20w that I've seen, are they holding up ok?

#33 3 years ago

Man, the replies on this post are getting better and better.

@yeold: Ahhh, I get it. Makes sense. Thanks for the heads up with @barakadl. I've heard great things from friends who've dealt with his business.

@dno: yes! You're definitely on to something here. I've got some extra rubber sheets, I'm going to cut them and try this out. I can't believe I have seen anyone else recommend that in other posts. If you just thought of that, kudos my man.

@GPE: ...I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy! ... But seriously, thanks so much. This fills in some blanks that would've taken me ages to figure out (if ever) on my own.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Resistor clump is about 4.8 ohm and the coil resistance is 4 ohm for total resistance of 8.8 ohm.
No evidence the resistors have been overheated.
I actually did buy the right coil just never got around to proper fix since it works fine.
[quoted image]
Stern Meteor and Stern Seawitch had a power resistor in series with a flipper coil. Probably because an upper flipper so close to drop targets they where getting busted. I can't remember the value Stern used, but it might be included in a wiring diagram.

Those are in parallel aren't they? If that's the case the calculations seem quite a bit more complicated (but if it works, it works, right?). I wonder if in parallel (again, if these are in), if the wattage load is dissipated more than it in series.
https://www.dummies.com/programming/electronics/components/electronics-components-combine-resistors-in-series-and-parallel/

I did an experiment with shimming the plungers (thanks for the lead @DNO) It definitely made a difference, but not enough to remove the towel for my liking unfortunately. I took some amateur db measurements and I'll post it later.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Been watching this thread, interested if this resistor theory will work.
I don’t think you can get the coil weak enough to make a big difference in the sound without the coil being so weak it can’t draw the plunger up from rest.
That made me think that in addition to weakening the coil, I would shim the plungers to have a lot less travel, and that made me think that alone might do what you are trying.
Have you tried just shimming the plunger to only have like 1/2” of travel?
That alone might work.

So, a slight lateral movement on this post due to the great lead DNO gave me. I layered rubber under the classic stern plunger coils and took db measurements as I went. It only made a difference of 5db inside the cabinet (from around 70 down to 65) but with the glass on it made a huge difference. So much that I tried taking off the towels but found it again too loud--but in doing this I also found that the high ping reverb was back! I tried using a cardboard box (but fairly crudely) around the chimes unit but the db didn't seem to change. I also noticed that the box was uncomfortably close to some bare wires so I opted not to pursue this too further. But I'm still planning on trying this again on a bell as I know many people have had luck with this method.
A day after and some thought about it I tried layering wood under my Gottlieb Dragon chimes (a paint stir stick was perfect width). I pried up the foam and placed two layers underneath. Again, a huge difference (so much so, that it felt like each stir stick layer was 2-4 volume notches)! It was so quiet that I removed one of the two towels on the chimes and I noticed it sounded much better, yet still had a quieter volume than with just the towels.
So, ideally, I think there's going to be combination of shimming up the plungers and using resistors (I still haven't done my homework to find the ideal values and make an order) for the ideal sound while needed a reduced volume.
I also plan on trying some different towel/fabric options on top of the chimes now that the volume is lower from the shimming. So far the lighter the towel the more of that sweet pinging reverb can be heard.

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