(Topic ID: 310478)

Elec engineers/ smart people Help??? (alert system for unsecured truck load)

By Beechwood

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by pinzrfun
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    #1 2 years ago

    What: a system to sense a pallet when loaded in my pickup, with an alert system in cab(light/buzzer) that can only be deactivated by a manual switch

    Why: to help make sure pallet is strapped. A buzzer/light alerts me to walk to back of truck, Visually confirm load is secured, then hitting a deactivating switch on back of truck to silence buzzer/light.

    How: This is where you come in. I have limited knowledge on what it takes to make this inexpensively, simply as possible, and reliable as possible. Early research has me thinking a proximity switch, flush mounted in bed of truck, that turns on the alert in the cab when it senses a load. Alert stays on until manual switch is activated manually, thereby silencing the alert. When load is removed and the proximity sensor opens, the circuit needs to reset so it will be ready to activate when it senses the next load.

    Should I use a PLC with logic? Obviously driven by 12 volts. Is there a way to use relays instead of logic?

    Again, I am going for RELIABLE, SIMPLE, inexpensive (in that order).

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    #2 2 years ago

    How bout just strapping the pallet down as soon as it's put in the back of your truck.

    #3 2 years ago

    Do a walk around before you start the truck…problem solved. Make it a habit. Put a post it note on the dash that says “ is load secured dummy?” Something quirky to make you laugh a little but make you do a double check. If just becomes a habit it will be no problem to take the extra few seconds to look at the load to see if it’s secure…..secondly loads can shift and depending on how far you are going you should check the load anytime you stop to make sure it is still secure. A manual shut off sensor as you described won’t help to remind you of that.

    #4 2 years ago

    I'd think any kind of proximity/limit switch flush mounted so the load completes the circuit. Picture instead of a leaf switch in a slingshot firing a solenoid it just turns on a light/buzzer instead.

    A backup/ trailer camera, even better, keep an eye on it. 12 volt, starting at $15.99 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Backup-Reverse-Ultra-wide-Viewing-High-definition/dp/B09SWPDLJQ/ref=sr_1_omk_4

    Do you have people randomly putting pallets in your truck that you somehow don't notice?

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pickle:

    Do a walk around before you start the truck…problem solved. Make it a habit. Put a post it note on the dash that says “ is load secured dummy?” Something quirky to make you laugh a little but make you do a double check. If just becomes a habit it will be no problem to take the extra few seconds to look at the load to see if it’s secure…..secondly loads can shift and depending on how far you are going you should check the load anytime you stop to make sure it is still secure. A manual shut off sensor as you described won’t help to remind you of that.

    The problem comes when the warehouse guy takes the truck. I need him to double check, as he is glued to his phone and easily distracted before he gets on the road. Just trying to make it as hard as possible to leave without securing the load.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    I'd think any kind of proximity/limit switch flush mounted so the load completes the circuit. Picture instead of a leaf switch in a slingshot firing a solenoid it just turns on a light/buzzer instead.
    Do you have people randomly putting pallets in your truck that you somehow don't notice?

    The reason I don't want a mechanical switch sensing the load is it would have to be raised from the bed, and the pallets are pushed front to back/ shifted side to side when loaded and it would break a mechanical switch.

    And LOL to the people randomly loading pallets

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    The problem comes when the warehouse guy takes the truck. I need him to double check, as he is glued to his phone and easily distracted before he gets on the road. Just trying to make it as hard as possible to leave without securing the load.

    Fire the wearhouse guy. Eliminate phone usage on the job.

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    The reason I don't want a mechanical switch sensing the load is it would have to be raised from the bed, and the pallets are pushed front to back/ shifted side to side when loaded and it would break a mechanical switch.
    And LOL to the people randomly loading pallets

    Backup camera mounted on the back of the cab.

    #9 2 years ago

    You would need a load plate installed…think of the plate on a load scale for pallets…that’s the only thing I can think of that would handle loads being dragged over it and not get destroyed. This could be expensive but would be a practical way to rig up what you are wanting.

    Sounds like you need a driver that can put the phone down and do their job. It’s not that hard….I would just find a driver that can do the job. An alarm is only as good as the action taken. Your driver would most likely just leave it turned off since it’s manual.

    Since your driver is on his phone make them take and send a picture of the load strapped down BEFORE they drive off with the load. Problem solved. Every company I know that ships stuffs takes pictures of all loads for this reason.

    #10 2 years ago

    Can this be adapted to a toilet seat so I remember to wipe my ass?

    #11 2 years ago
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    #12 2 years ago

    If you make such a system then you will also risk bugs or false reports by the system which could actually cause a mistake. It’s a bit of a Rube Goldberg. Seek the simplest solution would be my advice.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from GLSP3022:

    Fire the wearhouse guy. Eliminate phone usage on the job.

    He's a good worker. His has to call customer ahead, program address in GPS, etc.

    #14 2 years ago

    Backup camera mounted on back of cab...final answer.I

    Not only see if there's anything there, monitor for movement during transit.

    #15 2 years ago

    Require him to take pictures of the load secured….don’t know the guy but if he can’t remember to secure a load (pretty important part of the job)….then how good is he?

    Put that sticky on the dash “ hey Dummy! Secure the load. Just kidding and don’t call him a dummy. But seriously companies have procedures in place for employees to do their jobs. If there is not a loading procedure then there needs to be one created. If it can’t be followed then disciplinary action should be taken. Employees that can not follow procedures are usually not employees very long.

    As Smokey the Bear says “ Only you can prevent forest fires.” If this is a continuous problem it’s like throwing lit matches down in the forest.

    #16 2 years ago

    Let's imagine for a moment that the worker is not the subject here.

    Does anyone know how I can construct a system as I originally laid out?

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Does anyone know how I can construct a system as I originally laid out?

    You are trying to solve a process problem with a mechanical solution. Easiest solution is to hold your employee accountable.

    Solution: buy a simple pressure/force sensor, an Arduino, a box, a power supply, a 5V cigarette converter, some LEDs, a large push button.

    The pallet is set onto the truck, the pressure sensor sends a signal to the Arduino. The Arduino lights the LEDs, program the the Arduino to turn off the LEDs when the switch is pressed. The code needs to reset state when the load is lifted.

    This won't guarantee the pallet is strapped down properly.

    Google: pressure sensor projects, LED projects, Solder Skills, etc.

    #18 2 years ago

    I deal with this sort of thing at my work all the time. Good labor is hard to come by right now so sometimes you need to come up with idiot proof solutions.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from Friengineer:

    You are trying to solve a process problem with a mechanical solution. Easiest solution is to hold your employee accountable.
    Solution: buy a simple pressure/force sensor, an Arduino, a box, a power supply, a 5V cigarette converter, some LEDs, a large push button.
    The pallet is set onto the truck, the pressure sensor sends a signal to the Arduino. The Arduino lights the LEDs, program the the Arduino to turn off the LEDs when the switch is pressed. The code needs to reset state when the load is lifted.
    This won't guarantee the pallet is strapped down properly.

    Google: pressure sensor projects, LED projects, Solder Skills, etc.

    Thank you! This is the type of answer I am looking for. I will explore this option as well as any other I can gather.

    And yes, I am trying to find a mechanical solution to a process problem

    #20 2 years ago

    If only pallets were actually “set” onto trucks but that is far from the truth….most places don’t have long forks and pallets are set and usually pushed the rest of the way into the back of pick ups…unless it’s a solid load plate sensor designed for that abuse it will be destroyed quickly.

    As mentioned…it’s a process problem. While a mechanical means can aide in alerting to the potential problem this device will not take action to correct the issue of a load not being strapped down. That will require action on the driver. This is a very simple issue to correct though you may not like what others have already said……

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    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from GLSP3022:

    Fire the wearhouse guy. Eliminate phone usage on the job.

    100%agreed before he costs you

    #22 2 years ago

    If you want to consider something very simple this could be done with a couple well placed limit switches that the straps would hold in/activate when they are tightened.

    https://au.rs-online.com/web/c/switches/industrial-switches/limit-switches/

    I am thinking roller arm limit switches mounted so that when the ratchet strap is pulled down/tightened, the vertical parts of the strap going to the top of the load depresses the actuator arm of the switch

    A couple relays and a buzzer would complete the circuit

    If you wanted to get fancy you could wire off the normally open circuits and make it fail safe/ wire a relay as latching with a push button reset etc etc

    If you are interested I can draw up a schematic later on

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Meldenhut:

    If you want to consider something very simple this could be done with a couple well placed limit switches that the straps would hold in/activate when they are tightened.
    https://au.rs-online.com/web/c/switches/industrial-switches/limit-switches/
    I am thinking roller arm limit switches mounted so that when the ratchet strap is pulled down/tightened, the vertical parts of the strap going to the top of the load depresses the actuator arm of the switch
    A couple relays and a buzzer would complete the circuit
    If you wanted to get fancy you could wire off the normally open circuits and make it fail safe/ wire a relay as latching with a push button reset etc etc
    If you are interested I can draw up a schematic later on

    Thanks for your input.

    Roller arm switches wont work for this application due to the layout of the ratchet straps. I have already looked into that and many other means of sensing the load. I have narrowed it to a capacitive proximity sensor as the best option. When the sensor registers a load present, it should trigger the buzzer/ light, and a manual push button should turn off the buzzer/light. When the proximity sensor registers the load is no longer present on the truck, everything should reset so when another load is placed, it triggers the buzzer/light again.

    I understand how it should work but not sure how to diagram this out. I am electrically deficient lol.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    The problem comes when the warehouse guy takes the truck. I need him to double check, as he is glued to his phone and easily distracted before he gets on the road. Just trying to make it as hard as possible to leave without securing the load.

    The most reliable method is an incentive.

    Like make his payment contingent on texting you a picture of the secured load before you pay a “load bonus”.

    Or lock the ignition with a code (simpler than a reliable load detection) until he texts a picture of the secured load.

    He seems to like his phone so texting should be his thing.

    #25 2 years ago

    Optical sensors. Think IR beam across the truck. There is a receiver and a emitter. Once the pallet slides in and breaks the beam that triggers the light or alarm. Which then can be de-energized by a simple switch somewhere.

    #26 2 years ago

    Omg, seriously, nobody can get behind the idea of a friggin camera pointed at the bed of the truck?

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    Omg, seriously, nobody can get behind the idea of a friggin camera pointed at the bed of the truck?

    If they are on the phone what are the odds of them looking at a monitor in the cab? And how would you tie an alarm in to that per his requirements?

    #28 2 years ago

    I’m on a flight so you are getting a “quality” schematic sketch

    Simple latching relay circuit that is latched on by the input (load sensor) being made.
    It latches the relay on which will close the circuit activating the buzzer/lamp on the second contact of the relay.
    You don’t “need” the push to make button as the input is your load switch but it’s good to have it as a test button to check the circuit.

    The “push to break” butting will unlatch the circuit and stop the buzzer

    Any 12v DPDT relay will do

    I have made the assumption that everything else in the circuit is rated to switch at 12v and the load cell input is open when no load is present.

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    #29 2 years ago

    I see where the OP is coming from. If a buzzer goes off, and the only way to shut it off is to get out and throw a switch at the back of the bed, then at that point there is no excuse to "forget" to strap down the load. To be any more foolproof, the cutoff switch would have to be part of the strapping down mechanism, but I suppose putting that much engineering into a one-off would probably be excessive.

    I like the idea of an optical load detector, over something having to withstand sliding pallets. Something strong enough to bounce the beam back with a mirror, to save having to run wires on both sides. A laser, probably.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Meldenhut:

    I’m on a flight so you are getting a “quality” schematic sketch
    Simple latching relay circuit that is latched on by the input (load sensor) being made.
    It latches the relay on which will close the circuit activating the buzzer/lamp on the second contact of the relay.
    You don’t “need” the push to make button as the input is your load switch but it’s good to have it as a test button to check the circuit.
    The “push to break” butting will unlatch the circuit and stop the buzzer
    Any 12v DPDT relay will do
    I have made the assumption that everything else in the circuit is rated to switch at 12v and the load cell input is open when no load is present. [quoted image]

    Thank you! I will test this out soon.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    Omg, seriously, nobody can get behind the idea of a friggin camera pointed at the bed of the truck?

    Here is the point, I never asked for other solutions to the core problem. I simply asked how one could simply and reliably build a system that I outlined above, as I have limited experience in the area.

    (Best solution is to have metal pallets and a huge electro magnet in the bed of the truck that activates when in gear )

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Here is the point, I never asked for other solutions to the core problem.

    The core problem is you - you have a careless employee that you continue to empower by creating workarounds to cover for his shortcomings.

    Quoted from Beechwood:

    He's a good worker. His has to call customer ahead, program address in GPS, etc.

    Seriously - stop making excuses for this guy and hold him accountable for his job. Check the load, get in the truck, program address, call customer and tell them you're on the way, set phone down. Once delivered, recheck load, program next address, call next customer, set phone down.

    Are you gonna install retinal scanners on the building because he forgets his keys too? Or put air fresheners everywhere because he forgets to shower or wipe his ass?

    #33 2 years ago

    Simple solution-fire him and have a no phones policy.

    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    The core problem is you - you have a careless employee that you continue to empower by creating workarounds to cover for his shortcomings.

    Seriously - stop making excuses for this guy and hold him accountable for his job. Check the load, get in the truck, program address, call customer and tell them you're on the way, set phone down. Once delivered, recheck load, program next address, call next customer, set phone down.
    Are you gonna install retinal scanners on the building because he forgets his keys too? Or put air fresheners everywhere because he forgets to shower or wipe his ass?

    100%

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    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    Seriously - stop making excuses for this guy and hold him accountable for his

    Maybe it's not that simple, maybe it's family or charity or something else.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from Meldenhut:

    Simple latching relay circuit that is latched on by the input (load sensor) being made.
    It latches the relay on which will close the circuit activating the buzzer/lamp on the second contact of the relay.
    You don’t “need” the push to make button as the input is your load switch but it’s good to have it as a test button to check the circuit.

    The “push to break” butting will unlatch the circuit and stop the buzzer

    Any 12v DPDT relay will do

    How does the system reset after the first load is unloaded?

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from Friengineer:

    How does the system reset after the first load is unloaded?

    This has been my biggest sticking point. When the proximity sensor opens as the load is removed, it needs to reset into a "ready" state.

    #37 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    The core problem is you - you have a careless employee that you continue to empower by creating workarounds to cover for his shortcomings.

    Seriously - stop making excuses for this guy and hold him accountable for his job. Check the load, get in the truck, program address, call customer and tell them you're on the way, set phone down. Once delivered, recheck load, program next address, call next customer, set phone down.
    Are you gonna install retinal scanners on the building because he forgets his keys too? Or put air fresheners everywhere because he forgets to shower or wipe his ass?

    There is much more involved in this that I can't divulge. But in theory, I totally agree with you.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    There is much more involved in this that I can't divulge. But in theory, I totally agree with you.

    That's different then, you're obviously trying to help the guy out. Kudos.

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