(Topic ID: 209025)

Houdini is tough!


By Russell

1 year ago



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#101 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

curious if anyone has a mock up of the Jpop Expo design shown vs the production Balcer one?
Would be nice to see side by side

Here's Popdiuk's layout if you want to put a mock up together.

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#102 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

So when you get new information or people give you new perspectives and opinions you just stubbornly stick to your first take, no matter what? And you never apologize?
Man, it's weird what some people are proud of.
I personally find it a sign of intelligence when you're able to change your mind when presented with new information.

I personally find it a sign of intelligence when you're able properly analyze a situation and come to a rational decisions before flying of the handle or making an uneducated comment. Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with his initial comment, but don't think he should have to apologize for it.

#103 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

There was (there's even video of it), but it is not remotely even the same game. It did not flip, no coils
were working (or even attached?) and there was no way for the ball to get to certain shots. Hey, like Magic Girl! Literally a "box of lights". I quite liked the art style on it, but in retrospect it owes a lot to Circus Voltaire, and based on how AP redesigned the game
From scratch, the new art style
Fits quite a bit better.
Here it is: » YouTube video

I personally like this art style much better.

#104 1 year ago
Quoted from NintenBear:

I still have 5 (all you can play for an hour) cards at level 257 .

is that a new card option? didn't see it when I went there. Seems like a good option, if they get a new game. No one can go up to a new game, not knowing the rules and hope to get a replay.

#105 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Here's Popdiuk's layout if you want to put a mock up together.

Everyone has been talking about how ridiculous it was, and no-one has recently posted pics of it (that I've seen).

I'd forgotten just how utterly stupid it was. A total joke.

Going from JPop and this to what constitutes the production machine in a year is a real feat. Not even so much the fast turnaround on the machine itself, but recovering so quickly from the fiasco. They started out with some really awful decisions, then clearly made a series of good ones.

#106 1 year ago

I had the chance to play last night and I found it very difficult overall not since GB have I had a machine consistently make me look bad but I still really liked it.it was beautiful, played fast,so many cool features and rules but tough as nails.if I had new in box $$ I would consider Houdini as an option because other than its tough!!!! I loved it and I think I'm ready for something tough in my collection.but if it was my only game I would probably smash it to pieces.

#107 1 year ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

but if it was my only game I would probably smash it to pieces.

#109 1 year ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

...but if it was my only game I would probably smash it to pieces.

LOL! That made me laugh. You may be right! I have put in about 10 games on the prototype (not the shipping version), and had a really long game at the Allentown show, the timer ran out. Just had one of those super lucky games. I really did not find the shots to be that tight. I'm going up to play it again on Sunday. At allentown had a really long conversation with Rosh and Balcer, and they were just going into so much detail, it made the game all that much more fun to know the behind-the-scenes (not the Jpop drama, but the engineering that went into it). That is for sure one of the reasons I'm so high on this game.

#110 1 year ago
Quoted from Caucasian2Step:

I came down to meet Russell at the 1up Colfax when I heard that he drove up from Colorado Springs to give this game a shot. I was also there when they unboxed the game and set it up on location. Playing this table with Russell (a few doors down from Batman, The Dark Knight) was the second time I had played this game. This game will probably need some tuning as each copy right now is a hand crafted piece of work. Before I wrote my review on this game I came down to the 1up to play this copy of this deck. I did this only after I sessioned it out because I wanted to give an actual review after playing an actual game. Russell is my friend and an incredibly intelligent, considerate thoughtful and overall damn fine human being. I don't hang out with just anyone. I surround myself with the best people I can and do everything I can to earn my valuable time with them. I ended up reading this string twice because the format that we have here does not communicate emotional content very well. Friendly ribbing can be easily seen as more harsh intentions. People can say whatever they want to about his opinions and that is fine. People can like or not like whatever games they want to. That's allowed. The title of the string is "Houdini is tough!". This is an accurate description of this layout. It is a shooter's game. As in... it's a pinsniper's game. EVERY shot was 1 1/2 inch wide other than the ramp (which has a strange apex that leads to inconsistent paths when the ball does not make it all the way around the curve. All in all this game is really tough. The pin-masochists and the people who see more frames per. second (I spoke to Daniele Acciari on facecrack about this after I got to play the table) will have a great time with a layout that appeals to their mindset and talents. I'm don't see as many frames per. second as Daniele does, and my tolerance for pin-pain is relatively good. This game made me look SILLY! To summaraize:
"The Takeaway:
This is a great start that American Pinball has given us. Joe Balcer may be the dark horse that the industry of pinball that people may have to start to take notice of. Look at titles that he has worked on: The Simpsons Pinball Party, High Roller Casino, Starship Troopers, Godzilla and one of the best earning pinball games of all time (while not a fav) South Park (which led to TSPP). I understand that he is traditionally known as an engineer. Which is super old school. This is how designers of the past came to be. They learned how to build a pinball game AND THEN design pinball games. Congrats Joe. This game was originally laid out by John Popaduik. I would be interested in seeing the original layout for this design.
As this game stands right now. Playing Houdini is not fun. Pinball is supposed to be fun. If playing the game is not fun, people will not play it. You can have a weak theme/license, not so great art and a game that plays great (The Shadow, Tales from the Crypt, Laser Cue and for some players, the pointy people games of Marche and Kelley, intelligent) players can get past this and enjoy playing the game. But a game that does not play well is an unforgivable sin to go into production. I hope we have a better layout with Oktoberfest. I will be updating this review after more mileage. Best of luck to the entire team at American Pinball. This is a great start. I see them learning from their experiences and making better pinball in the future."
For me it is simple. Right now the layout is SO tighteous that is is not fun. Pinball is supposed to be fun. Will this opinion change after more mileage? It very well could. This table would probably be best in a larger location/collection where it's qualities can be compared and appreciated by those who enjoy being steeled into a better place playing pinball. I like many games like this (x-men again), but for me this game was not fun to play. Pinball is supposed to be fun and that is why we play it. When a pinball game is not fun, it does not get played. Maybe some more tourney players will dig it, but unless you have the funds to put one in your basement, you are probably not going to dollar/play a game on site (certainly most casual players will not) when you get pimped out in less than 2 minutes. This is shown right next to your score. Right after we played Houdini, we went to another location and played No Fear. No fear was a cakewalk compared to playing Houdini. For reals.
No amount of software will save a layout that isn't fun. For me, this game was not fun. It was a beatdown. I will also admit to the fact that I work on my aiming more than anything else playing pinball. You can't really backhand the light lock and lock shots with consistency. The layout is designed for dangerous across the playfield shots. I WILL be spending more time on it as I know it is going to turn up in tournaments and I must be able to perform well on it to win. I have to. Will I enjoy my time getting there, only time will tell. But right now. Houdini is tough! It is so tough to shoot that it is not fun. Who else wants to play a pinball game that is not fun?

So if I understand you correctly, you think Houdini is fun, right? Ok, I’m being a smart ass. If nothing else Houdini definitely pushed some of your buttons to get so under your skin. I started to count how many times you said that it’s not fun but I gave up. That’s cool, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I’ve read many of your previous reviews and I can say I respect your opinion more than most on this site but in this case I respectfully disagree, Houdini is incredibly fun. Or I should say it is fun to me. That’s my opinion and when it comes to opinions I’m right that it’s fun for me and you’re right that it is not fun for you.

Keep flipping.

#111 1 year ago

Kevin and Russell

I'll be at the One Up around three today if you two knuckleheads can make it.

#112 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Kevin and Russell
I'll be at the One Up around three today if you two knuckleheads can make it.

I wish I could. Have fun. Will be interested to see your Houdini review.

#113 1 year ago

I have to wonder how much of the reviews are based on the specific machine in each case.

Seeing some well respected players and reviewers on the complete flip side of the coin from others tends to make me think things are just variable on these initial production run going out the door. ?

I will say my experience on the beta version at MGC last year was that it was tough and not much fun for me. I replayed it at Expo and also walked away underwhelmed. I attempted to play the one locally on route the day after it arrived and was unable to due to some issues. I need to get back over there to see if now that the bugs are worked out, the production game is more appealing to me.

#114 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have to wonder how much of the reviews are based on the specific machine in each case.

Definitely a factor with our local test machine at Level 257. Played it on Saturday, and everyone I was with said it was too shallow and slow. Someone in my group (not me for once, I swear!) crawled under it and raised the back levelers. Huge difference, much more enjoyable. Three days later (last night) I played the same machine again, and the flipper strength had been turned down frustratingly low. Right flipper shot that would have hit the stage alley was now limping into the far left milk can shot. WAY off. Lock backhand became nigh-impossible.

I've heard that the designer likes his games to play at a very shallow pitch and with, let's say, "gentle" flippers. Both of those things could not be further from my taste in pinball.

#115 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have to wonder how much of the reviews are based on the specific machine in each case.
Seeing some well respected players and reviewers on the complete flip side of the coin from others tends to make me think things are just variable on these initial production run going out the door. ?
I will say my experience on the beta version at MGC last year was that it was tough and not much fun for me. I replayed it at Expo and also walked away underwhelmed. I attempted to play the one locally on route the day after it arrived and was unable to due to some issues. I need to get back over there to see if now that the bugs are worked out, the production game is more appealing to me.

I think this might be one of those games much like Dialed In where it takes a good amount of tweaking to get it set up just right. I know the game here in Madison was one of the first on the line and I know they had to do quite a few small changes and tweaks before it played right. When I played it (after the tweaks) I thought it played great and I had no problems hitting any of the shots. I'm sure as more games are released the consistency and the amount of tweaking you need to do will go down.

#116 1 year ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Your points are more than valid when it comes to pinball and Houdini, but i have to disagree with this comment. Lyman Sheats, Dwight Sullivan, and Keith Johnson continue to prove time and time again that software is key to a good and fun machine, no matter the layout.

I don't agree with this. Good software can turn a boring game into a great game. But software can't fix bad shots. (I haven't played Houdini, not saying it has bad shots). If a game is clunky and not fun to shoot then it's gonna stay that way, even if the objectives grow in stature.

I think we've become somewhat reliant on this notion that "you can fix it in software", and it's a bad mentality for manufacturers, but it's also not great for consumers.

Why not start with a great layout, that's fun to shoot, and then put great code on top of it?

#117 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't agree with this. Good software can turn a boring game into a great game. But software can't fix bad shots. (I haven't played Houdini, not saying it has bad shots). If a game is clunky and not fun to shoot then it's gonna stay that way, even if the objectives grow in stature.
I think we've become somewhat reliant on this notion that "you can fix it in software", and it's a bad mentality for manufacturers, but it's also not great for consumers.
Why not start with a great layout, that's fun to shoot, and then put great code on top of it?

I'm not sure anything is clunkier or less satisfying to shoot then LOTR, yet the sound and code turned it into a game most people love.

#118 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I think this might be one of those games much like Dialed In where it takes a good amount of tweaking to get it set up just right. I know the game here in Madison was one of the first on the line and I know they had to do quite a few small changes and tweaks before it played right. When I played it (after the tweaks) I thought it played great and I had no problems hitting any of the shots. I'm sure as more games are released the consistency and the amount of tweaking you need to do will go down.

If you want to head back over sometime, then LMK.

Would like to try it out now that it is working better.

#119 1 year ago
Quoted from DngrWillRobinson:

So if I understand you correctly, you think Houdini is fun, right? Ok, I’m being a smart ass. If nothing else Houdini definitely pushed some of your buttons to get so under your skin. I started to count how many times you said that it’s not fun but I gave up.

10 times. (But who's counting eh?)

Despite this, I don't think that caucasian2step was necessarily saying that Houdini isn't fun. I think his point was simply that its gameplay is just less enjoyable than that of other games that he considers to be fun.

Yeah ... that's the ticket! Houdini remains on my wishlist!

#120 1 year ago

Ours arrived this morning. The shots are tight but after a few games they come easier......Looking forward to some quality time with this puppy.

#121 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't agree with this. Good software can turn a boring game into a great game. But software can't fix bad shots. (I haven't played Houdini, not saying it has bad shots). If a game is clunky and not fun to shoot then it's gonna stay that way, even if the objectives grow in stature.
I think we've become somewhat reliant on this notion that "you can fix it in software", and it's a bad mentality for manufacturers, but it's also not great for consumers.
Why not start with a great layout, that's fun to shoot, and then put great code on top of it?

well I don't agree with this obviously, code can't fix everything. But some programmers know how to move the shots around so to speak to get the player to play it more fluently, add in exciting and rewarding light shows and sound, and it can in essence make the player feel more accomplished which in turn typically = fun! Good programmers, who are also good players, seem to know how to focus on the strengths of a layout while slightly deterring away from its weaker assets.

An example of this In the case of Houdini (now keep in mind I haven't played it so some of what I say here could be me speaking out my ass) would be getting the board to light up faster so there's more to do and more going on at a faster rate, Get some stacking earlier on and not so much chase 1 or 2 shorts and I guarantee it'll have a more fun appeal. Case in point, ragetilt stream - one of the bearded brothers (forget their names) started getting deep into the game and finally after watching so many games of Zach just playing mode after mode (one or two shots active), ragetilt had an active and very appealing board with many shots to aim for, then started multiball - I think even Zach did this once too while streaming. People who don't like Houdini probably have not seen or experienced this because it takes so much effort to get it going. There's a ton of shots in Houdini and from what I can tell, only a few shots are active or do anything at one time. Some tweaking and fine tuning of software can stretch the legs more and make it more appealing. These types of examples go for a lot of pins.

Another great example. BM66. Complete clunkfest and turd out of the gate - sprinkle Lyman fairies dust on it and look at it now.

How about WOZ; besides a minority of fanfare supporters, that game was considered a mess of a layout with no satisfying shots early on. Now it's complete magic and feels oh so good - one of my favorite pins.

Software can make or break a game - look at guardians, sweet ass layout, but ugh......Not all games, layouts, or code integrations are for everybody; but software can make a bad game good and vice versa.

#122 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Sorry but this is incorrect. The AP Popadiuk design was completely discarded and Balcer began from scratch.

To clarify, the original project had a JPop design and layout. And you are correct Kim, Balcer took the project over and made it his own.

#123 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I have to wonder how much of the reviews are based on the specific machine in each case.
Seeing some well respected players and reviewers on the complete flip side of the coin from others tends to make me think things are just variable on these initial production run going out the door. ?
I will say my experience on the beta version at MGC last year was that it was tough and not much fun for me. I replayed it at Expo and also walked away underwhelmed. I attempted to play the one locally on route the day after it arrived and was unable to due to some issues. I need to get back over there to see if now that the bugs are worked out, the production game is more appealing to me.

I am cheering American pinball on. I want them to succeed. Joe has knocked it out of the park before. But my opinion of the game so far is what it is. Who knows... This game may grow on me and I am definitely going to give it a chance and then some. I love being wrong when pinball is right!

#124 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Definitely a factor with our local test machine at Level 257. Played it on Saturday, and everyone I was with said it was too shallow and slow. Someone in my group (not me for once, I swear!) crawled under it and raised the back levelers. Huge difference, much more enjoyable.

The tech at the 1up had to Gooch it higher with longer levellers on the rear legs.

#125 1 year ago

I got over to the One Up today and played the same machine that Russell and Caucasian2step did. First let me say that both of these guys are far superior players than I am and I have mad respect for them both and their opinions. I'm more of a banger and these two are artisans with finesse.
But what I lack in playing skill, I can make up for in other areas like tweaking a machine.

My first game and half was brick, brick, brick on the right inner loop shot. It was so frustrating that I think it ruined any of my other shots and I did not enjoy myself. I stopped and leaned over close to the glass and by sight, I determined that the opening was barely wide enough for a ball to pass and near impossible. Lucky for me the operator (Dan G) was there and I know him.

I asked Dan if we could slide the glass and bend both of those targets slightly outward to open up the entrance. Dan is one of the best operators around and he knew what I was talking about. He reached in (big guy with meat paws) and using his thumb, bent each of them as I had asked. Visually I could see immediately it was an improvement and I muttered that I could drive a truck through that.

My very first shot I nailed it and like an awestruck small child, I turned to let Dan know. I went on to making a high percentage of those shots after that and I really began to enjoy it. It's still a challenging shot but very makeable now. I played seven games, which I don't consider enough to fully critique it nor do I consider myself gifted enough to do so. But I think I'd agree with most of Ezeltmann's review in comment 53 of this thread.

Bad news is the catapult only made one of about seven shots into the box and needs adjusting. The playfield is stunning and Houdini is still on my list of possible purchases. I wanna play it more before I pull the trigger but I found it unique and interesting on my first outing.

And I'll want to consult further with both Russell and Kevin (Caucasian2Step) as I do value their opinions.

Edit/Add: For clarity, it was more of a straightening of the targets rather than bending. They looked very natural at the entrance afterward, where before they looked bent in some.

#126 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

My very first shot I nailed it and like an awestruck small child, I turned to let Dan know. I went on to making a high percentage of those shots after that and I really began to enjoy it. It's still a challenging shot but very makeable now. I played seven games, which I don't consider enough to fully critique it nor do I consider myself gifted enough to do so. But I think I'd agree with most of Ezeltmann's review in comment 53 of this thread.

Thanks for the additional insight Kim! Just to be clear though, would you officially proclaim it as being fun?

#127 1 year ago

It was the most fun I've ever had without getting naked.

(yes, it was fun)

#128 1 year ago

Excellent! I can only imagine how fun mine will be then when I play it while naked!!!

#129 1 year ago

My pinball buddy was the first to get a Houdini in Canada and he invited me over tonight to try it out.

While it is tough and the shots aren't easy, I really enjoyed this machine. The playfield was gorgeous & the catapult really blew my mind!!

Looking forward to playing this pin more often!

"Don't quit your day job!" lol

#130 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It was the most fun I've ever had without getting naked.
(yes, it was fun)

Absolutely...it's 7k, with a beautiful PF, LCD display and cool toys, not to mention color changing lights and an excellent rule set. Win x 2.

#131 1 year ago

My Houdini has been in my house for exactly one week. The game it's self is very beautiful. It's been fun since day one out of the box.After some adjusting to suite my personal tastes through the easy to use API cockpit, my impression of this game has increased 10 fold!
Looks ... Fun...Code... Modes.. Call outs this games a winner! I'm thinking that those playing in an arcade environment are just not seeing the full potential that this game has to offer!
It's tough but fun!

#132 1 year ago

After playing some more Houdini tonight I have come to the conclusion that I am playing the wrong copy of the game. That, or it could just be me. Yeah, that's it.

It's me.

I'm no fun.

#133 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'm not sure anything is clunkier or less satisfying to shoot then LOTR, yet the sound and code turned it into a game most people love.

I don't know what game you played, but LotR is nowhere near clunky town. It is quite stop and go, but that's different than clunky.

#134 1 year ago

Some of my Current Customers have them at locations.

Quoted from FatPanda:

I like it tight, but not like this
On a serious note, there are games that shoot well and there are games that don't. I played the proto once at MGC last year and didn't feel the urge to wait in line for it again. It was tight then. If the production machine shoots like it did then, I'm gonna take a pass. I'll play a few if it happens to show up on location but I don't feel incredibly excited for it. This game doesn't appear to flow incredibly well and that's part of the fun of a good shooting machine.

Geeks Mania (Madison) has one I sold them.

Quoted from valgalder:

DMen Tap in Chicago has the only one so far that's in the city. Plays great.

Gavin's Game Service has one at Dmen to play

Vidgameseller has one at Padavans in St. Louis

Analog in Davenport Iowa

I have one @ Tylers Tender in Schererville, IN

And of course there is one at level 257

Pincades
JT

#135 1 year ago

Yes it has some tough shots. There are some shots that can be made from a back hand as well.
I shot the prototype for over a total of 3-4 hours prior to TPF in 2017.
I can tell you as my first impression (as a player NOT as a distributor) was what a awesome looking game, but that first ball was just okay. The further I got into the game the more I kept coming back for more and more after completing things and achieving momentum deeper into the code of the game.

The video mode: Kicked my A%@ the first time. But what a creative mode!

All in all the deeper you get into the game rules, the more it will bring you back for more and more.

As far as location games, everyone has there own rhymes or reasons to there liking.

I prefer to set show games up with a non aggressive pitch with plenty of flipper strength, so when a new player (whether it be a child, adult, etc.) to the game or hobby, has fun and does not get discouraged and walk away.
To a seasoned player it may seem lofty and boring , but to a newbie it makes it easier.

Location games, a different story, they are there to entertain you, but as we all know to make money.
If your at a location and it seems to need a adjustment, mention it to someone or leave a note on it.

Im sure there will be more In the wild soon!!!

Enjoy and happy flipping

Pincades
AP Dist.

#136 1 year ago
Quoted from Caucasian2Step:

After playing some more Houdini tonight I have come to the conclusion that I am playing the wrong copy of the game. That, or it could just be me. Yeah, that's it.
It's me.
I'm no fun.

I think it is more that you are a competitive player and evaulate things with a more detailed eye/critique. The opinion of guys like Russel and You are very important and valid. Dont worry that Pinside has lots of people that become fanboys and defensive or attacking; it is just how it works on Pinside.
I value your opinion on it and you are the best game reviewer on Pinside, period. You have earned the right to tell it like you see it.

-2
#137 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I don't know what game you played, but LotR is nowhere near clunky town. It is quite stop and go, but that's different than clunky.

Yes it is, I've owned 3 different ones and one was even a HEP restore. It's a clunky as they come. Still a fun game though.

#138 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think it is more that you are a competitive player and evaulate things with a more detailed eye/critique. The opinion of guys like Russel and You are very important and valid. Dont worry that Pinside has lots of people that become fanboys and defensive or attacking; it is just how it works on Pinside.
I value your opinion on it and you are the best game reviewer on Pinside, period. You have earned the right to tell it like you see it.

^^ This, well done Hilton.

Kevin, I only played it once but now I'm really anxious to meet you guys there and compare notes. And I did have some backhanding issues I'd like to explore with you. Like I said, not enough experience for me yet. - Let's find some time.

#139 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'm not sure anything is clunkier or less satisfying to shoot then LOTR, yet the sound and code turned it into a game most people love.

LOTR was one of the best shooting pins ever played or owned. The sounds/music benefited from Gomez having full access to movie sound material which he only had with IJ.

#140 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

^^ This, well done Hilton.
Kevin, I only played it once but now I'm really anxious to meet you guys there and compare notes. And I did have some backhanding issues I'd like to explore with you. Like I said, not enough experience for me yet. - Let's find some time.

Kim,
Tuesday I am having a birthday party pinball tournament at the 1up Colfax. 3 strikes, made some trophies. A lot of pinheads will be there if you are available. 6:30 pm is the start time we are hoping for, depending on traffic from the Fort. I get off work at 5. Would be able to spit ball opinions on it from a lot of people then

20180129_141436 (resized).jpg

#141 1 year ago

Thank you very much. I'm flattered you would include me and I would love to be there. Thanks!

#142 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think it is more that you are a competitive player and evaulate things with a more detailed eye/critique. The opinion of guys like Russel and You are very important and valid. Dont worry that Pinside has lots of people that become fanboys and defensive or attacking; it is just how it works on Pinside.
I value your opinion on it and you are the best game reviewer on Pinside, period. You have earned the right to tell it like you see it.

Thank you. You made my day.

-3
#143 1 year ago
Quoted from hAbO:

LOTR was one of the best shooting pins ever played or owned. The sounds/music benefited from Gomez having full access to movie sound material which he only had with IJ.

You are the only person I've ever seen that things LOTR is a great shooting pin. It's not bad but it is clunky and it has the typical Gomez clunky feel to it. To say it is one of the best shooting pins is crazy to me, there's tons of games that shoot smoother then it.

#144 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You are the only person I've ever seen that things LOTR is a great shooting pin. It's not bad but it is clunky and it has the typical Gomez clunky feel to it. To say it is one of the best shooting pins is crazy to me, there's tons of games that shoot smoother then it.

Saying tons of games shoot better doesn't make it clunky. I'd put it in the middle of the pack.

#145 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You are the only person I've ever seen that things LOTR is a great shooting pin. It's not bad but it is clunky and it has the typical Gomez clunky feel to it. To say it is one of the best shooting pins is crazy to me, there's tons of games that shoot smoother then it.

LOTR is a great shooting pin. Thats why i thumbed you down before.

#146 1 year ago
Quoted from Caucasian2Step:

It was a beatdown.

Well, since I'm not married, that's how I like my pinball. Where do I sign up?

#147 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You are the only person I've ever seen that things LOTR is a great shooting pin. It's not bad but it is clunky and it has the typical Gomez clunky feel to it. To say it is one of the best shooting pins is crazy to me, there's tons of games that shoot smoother then it.

Yeah, I didn't think that was even up for debate. Outside of the smooth Monster Bash left ramp, it's a total clusterclunk. Code is apparently so awesome that people are blind to its physical sins.

-1
#148 1 year ago
Quoted from Jdawg4422:

LOTR is a great shooting pin. Thats why i thumbed you down before.

Hate to ruin your fun but I'm a positive pinsider these days that has thumbs down turned off.

Lotr is a great game, it still shoots clunky though and has lots of odd feeling shots. Same as my BM66 which I also like.

#149 1 year ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

Kim,
Tuesday I am having a birthday party pinball tournament at the 1up Colfax. 3 strikes, made some trophies. A lot of pinheads will be there if you are available. 6:30 pm is the start time we are hoping for, depending on traffic from the Fort. I get off work at 5. Would be able to spit ball opinions on it from a lot of people then

Damn I want to catch the next flight for one of those trophies.

#150 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Hate to ruin your fun but I'm a positive pinsider these days that has thumbs down turned off.
Lotr is a great game, it still shoots clunky though and has lots of odd feeling shots. Same as my BM66 which I also like.

I owned LOTR for 7+ years. And I agree it’s a clunky shooting game but not necessarily in a bad way. Besides the legolas shot, the ball rattles around as it makes its way through just about every shot. Still one of the best pins ever, and certainly not the clunkiest game around, but it does have a fair shake of clunk to it.

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