(Topic ID: 259636)

Eight Ball Deluxe Tilting for No Reason?


By PinballGurus

9 days ago



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  • 18 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by PinballGurus
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#1 9 days ago

This machine tilts when the 3X is down and the right rollover lane is triggered. Any ideas?

#3 9 days ago

You need to test all of the diodes on the switches that are affected and form a rectangle on the switch matrix. This includes the tilt switch and the D rollover.

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#4 9 days ago

Also, which bumper is popping? That might be a clue as well. If the right one, check the diode there and at the saucer.

#5 9 days ago

This one is easy. I could answer it but I'll give you a hint and see if you can guess. Yea I'm sadistic I know, but I love switch matrix problems.

Take a look at the matrix above posted by Nokoro. Read it like a road map. To make the game tilt you have to travel from ST0 to I6.
You already figured out you will be passing through the 3x target and the D lane switch.
One corner of your route is missing? That's the bad shorted switch.
Hint there are game switches without diodes that are not shown on the playfield schematic. Pencil them in and you'll solve the puzzle.
Good luck,
L.

#6 9 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

This one is easy. I could answer it but I'll give you a hint and see if you can guess. Yea I'm sadistic I know, but I love switch matrix problems.
Take a look at the matrix above posted by Nokoro. Read it like a road map. To make the game tilt you have to travel from ST0 to I6.
You already figured out you will be passing through the 3x target and the D lane switch.
One corner of your route is missing? That's the bad shorted switch.
Hint there are game switches without diodes that are not shown on the playfield schematic. Pencil them in and you'll solve the puzzle.
Good luck,
L.

It would seem like the unmarked switch to the right of 3x may be shorted, but I had assumed there is no switch there. Am I wrong?

And, yes, you really are sadistic, you know. But, at the same time, you sometimes learn better by trying to puzzle things out on your own.

#7 9 days ago

Ah! Left coin switch on the door?

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#8 9 days ago
Quoted from PinballGurus:

Diodes on switches test good.

That's great but the diodes are not what usually fails on a classic Bally. Nearly 90% of the time, it's some of the disc capacitors that fail, not diodes. Bally used some very low quality caps back in the day. Use the switch test along with the chart above to determine that ONLY ONE switch # is triggered when you test each switch in the game. I fought a problem on my EBD for years and it was only sorted out after getting 4 or 5 shorted disc caps removed.

#9 9 days ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

That's great but the diodes are not what usually fails on a classic Bally.

In this case, please read post #5 by BigAl56 (shorted switch with no diode..)

Quoted from BigAl56:

That's the bad shorted switch.
Hint there are game switches without diodes that are not shown on the playfield schematic.

#10 9 days ago

Yeah, coin door switch. I remembered what 3 switches are in that blank space

I keep meaning to merge all the cab switch schematics with the playfield to make stuff like this easier.

Also, the pop bumper popping is probably a red herring, it likely needed its ceramic cap replaced (they occasionally can pick up back EMF through the air from a help of flipper I've found.... when I had a black pyramid it was pretty consistent, hold right flipper up, when you let it down the right sling would fire. I lived with not having a cap on that sling)

#11 9 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Ah! Left coin switch on the door?

Correct. That's the answer! Because the coin and start switches are in the cabinet they leave them off the playfield matrix schematic. You have to pencil them in to troubleshoot. There is no diode on a coin switch. It took us years at Bally to figure out how to add a diode to a coin switch. Therefore if/when a coin switch gets stuck, a common occurrence, it causes matrix problems like this.

So in this case the signal leaves ST0 passes up through the down 3x target, backwards through the stuck left coin switch (with no diode to stop it), then back up through D lane to I6 resulting in - Tilt.

Wasn't that fun?

#12 9 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

In this case, please read post #5 by BigAl56 (shorted switch with no diode..)

Right, switch test would reveal the problem simply looking at 2nd pic. in post#7 and with no tools in about 5 seconds. Typically, people new at pinball repair do not realize how the switch test can help solve things very quickly. Learning how to use that test is so important with early Bally machines. Most people that own these machines don't even realize that there is a SWITCH TEST.

#13 8 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Wasn't that fun?

Yes, actually. But, it is easy for me to say because it wasn't my game.

It's also nice to learn things, and this time, I learned about unmarked switches in old Bally games.

Quoted from BigAl56:

There is no diode on a coin switch. It took us years at Bally to figure out how to add a diode to a coin switch. Therefore if/when a coin switch gets stuck, a common occurrence, it causes matrix problems like this.

I guess there isn't much need for a diode on a coin switch. It would be pretty rude for someone to reach around the player and try to put a quarter in while they were playing, so it's pretty low risk that the switch is going to be closed during game play, unless of course, like here, its broken or shorted.

Good luck, OP! Hopefully this gives you the information you need to fix your pin.

#14 8 days ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Right, switch test would reveal the problem simply looking at 2nd pic. in post#7 and with no tools in about 5 seconds. Typically, people new at pinball repair do not realize how the switch test can help solve things very quickly. Learning how to use that test is so important with early Bally machines. Most people that own these machines don't even realize that there is a SWITCH TEST.

Good point, as long as none of the other switches 1-9 are closed or broken, this could have helped narrow down the problem. None of this is intuitive, though, so it is nice to have pinside as a place where people can talk you through it.

#15 8 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

This one is easy. I could answer it but I'll give you a hint and see if you can guess. Yea I'm sadistic I know, but I love switch matrix problems.
Take a look at the matrix above posted by Nokoro. Read it like a road map. To make the game tilt you have to travel from ST0 to I6.
You already figured out you will be passing through the 3x target and the D lane switch.
One corner of your route is missing? That's the bad shorted switch.
Hint there are game switches without diodes that are not shown on the playfield schematic. Pencil them in and you'll solve the puzzle.
Good luck,
L.

Great advice delivered in an awesome way. Good Pinsider bump!

#16 7 days ago

FYI follow up here. If you wanted to add a diode to the coin switch move the wire soldered to the 'common' connection to the unused NC lug on the coin switch and solder the diode between NC and Common.

#17 2 days ago

Final result was the coin door button was wired incorrectly to always be on. Thanks everyone!

#18 2 days ago

Sorry I had forgot I posted this and didn’t respond sooner.

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