(Topic ID: 253144)

Eight Ball Deluxe Switch Matrix Issue


By ShootForSlrValue

60 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 55 days ago by ShootForSlrValue
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 60 days ago

    Hi everyone.

    I’ve got an Eight Ball Deluxe with a switch matrix issue that has me chasing my tail.
    I have a typical phantom switch issue, but my attempts to fix it have not worked.

    So, when the “2” target and “5” target switches are closed and the left slingshot is hit, it activates the collect bonus saucer. Whenever the “5” target and “6” target switches are closed, the left pop bumper fires. No other combination of switch closures on the target bank give me problems (i.e. 1-2, 1-3. 1-4. 2-1. 2-2. etc).

    I removed J2 from the MPU and verified that this is not a board issue; no switches showed closed on the switch test.

    I replaced the diodes on the 2, 5, and left slingshot switches with no resolution.

    I replaced U10 on the MPU with no resolution.

    I replaced all remaining diodes on the target bank with no resolution.

    Where should I go from here?

    Thanks.

    #2 60 days ago
    Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:

    Where should I go from here?

    Put the game in switch test mode.
    Make sure all drop targets are raised and remove the ball from the game so no switches are closed.
    Grab the manual and go to the switch test display numbers page (PDF page 12, paper manual page 17)

    Activate each switch one at a time starting from switch 40 and work your way to switch 01. It's important you do it backwards because switch test mode will only report the lowest switch number closed. Raise the drop targets after you've lowered them before moving to the next switch. See if any switch closures report the wrong numbers.

    Then repeat the process, but this time after lowering the drop targets, leave them lowered and move to the next switch. See if any switch closures report the wrong numbers.

    If you can, post some clear high res pictures of the drop target switch stacks.

    #3 59 days ago

    This scenario would occur if the #5 target diode were shorted, missing, or backwards.

    Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:

    So, when the “2” target and “5” target switches are closed and the left slingshot is hit, it activates the collect bonus saucer. Whenever the “5” target and “6” target switches are closed, the left pop bumper fires.

    #4 59 days ago
    Quoted from BigAl56:

    This scenario would occur if the #5 target diode were shorted, missing, or backwards.

    He said he replaced them with no change.

    "I replaced the diodes on the 2, 5, and left slingshot switches with no resolution."

    Wasn't there similar issues with early SS Bally when the mylar/ceramic disk caps were bad or broken?

    Thanks
    Blake

    69abbae5355ca203ca76ee9d107619022069e685 (resized).jpg
    #5 59 days ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    Wasn't there similar issues with early SS Bally when the mylar/ceramic disk caps were bad or broken?

    The phantom issues that are happening sound more like an issue with the #5 drop target diode as bigal56 said - it might not be the diode itself, but rather that switch stack is improperly put together shorting the diode. This is why closeup pictures of the switch stacks will help.

    #6 59 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The phantom issues that are happening sound more like an issue with the #5 drop target diode as bigal56 said - it might not be the diode itself, but rather that switch stack is improperly put together shorting the diode. This is why closeup pictures of the switch stacks will help.

    Right on. You mean the spacers might not be in there proper positions? Or an issue with wiring?

    You do recall similar problems with the caps though correct?

    Thanks
    Blake

    #7 59 days ago
    Quoted from Blake:

    You mean the spacers might not be in there proper positions?

    Yes I suspect the spacer between the diode lugs is missing/in the wrong position effectively shorting the diode.
    It could be a capacitor problem but we need the O.P to come back with more info.

    Performing the switch test mode tests using the procedures mentioned in post #2 will reveal more.

    #8 58 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Yes I suspect the spacer between the diode lugs is missing/in the wrong position effectively shorting the diode.
    It could be a capacitor problem but we need the O.P to come back with more info.
    Performing the switch test mode tests using the procedures mentioned in post #2 will reveal more.

    Right on.

    OP lets see some pics.

    Thanks
    Blake

    #9 58 days ago

    Hi all. Sorry for the delay; work and home life have kept me pretty busy. I forgot to get pictures while I was down there today but I do have one from the other day that likely isn’t helpful to determine wether the spacer is appropriately positioned.

    However, I think this is likely the cause. When I first started to diagnose this issue, whenever I tested the diode in circuit, it would give me voltage with my leads on either side of the banded side of the diode AND when the leads were reversed, to the order of 0.02 - 0.03 volts. If I clipped a leg of the diode off the switch, I get the expected 0.4-0.6 voltage drop with common lead on the banded side and no reading with the leads reversed.

    Even more interesting is that this issue is totally intermittent. You can play 1 or 2 games with no issues, then on the 3rd every single time this scenario comes up and hit the left sling you get what are basically little jackpots. In some cases after this happens, the MPU gets lost, either adding balls to the game (game will go to ball 4 after ball 3 even though it’s set for 3 ball) or activating the left star rollover a bunch of times. I also found today they may having the 6 and 7 targets down followed by a left sling causes both the left and right pop bumpers to fire, and 5-7 causes only the left pop bumper to fire.

    There are also no caps on the drop target switches 1-7.

    I will get close up photos tomorrow. This is the only one I have on me. Top of photo is switch for #7 target.
    48D39807-B91D-47D1-8EB1-182D453B6BF3 (resized).jpeg

    I’m sick of looking at the thing

    #10 58 days ago

    look around your stack switches for solder splash.......i have seen it before.......

    #11 57 days ago

    Not sure if this could cause the issues, but check the switches carefully. Looks like the tensioner leaf (the middle leaf of the stack that gives one of the leaves added stability) may need to be bent back into proper position. It's possible some of those could be screwing with the switch matrix, so I'd check them all for good measure.

    Edit: looking at the pic again, the drop target might be down, which might make it appear the tensioner is further out of adjustment than it really is. Still worth checking though, with the drops up and down.
    1118678858.png

    #12 55 days ago

    Reporting back! I’m fairly certain I’ve spotted the issue. While taking pictures of the switch stacks to post here, I noticed a shiiiiiny little piece of solder splash on the “5” switch that (SO HELP ME GOD) I have missed the past 5 or 6 times I’ve been in this game. Unscrewed the switch from the bracket, cleaned it out with a dental pick, reassembled and played several games without issue. I’ll report back if it recurs.

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