Did you rule out switch issues?

No he meant switches on the playfield. if you have a manual read the section on self test. Red button inside coin door. For switch test you must remove ball and make sure all drop targets are reset.
Each switch has a number assigned to it. Look for chart in manual or in back box. Coils are also assigned a number. If you have no switch errors you should get a flashing zero in the match/credit display and ab audible sound with the flash. Going by switch chart close each switch one at a time and make sure the number of switch coincides with the chart. If you get a switch number showing in the display with all switches open then you need to investigate said switch. if you more than 1 stuck switch the display will show the highest number first.

I wanted to add that the leaf switches on the horseshoe bank are sometimes bent over due to the close proximity to the edge of the pf and prop rod hitting them. Verify that they all open when reset. Look for any shorts of the diodes and caps there.

Years ago my EBD was missing some sounds, and recaping the sound board fixed it. Since you’ve tried other stuff and already have an altek MPU, that seems like the next thing to try.

Sorry, I missed the part about already recapped it. Reseat the ribbon cables then!

Oh wait, can’t use that one here lol. Sorry, I’m out...

What do you mean by "4.0" when you say the sound board is working?

Are all solenoids working in solenoid test mode?

Please give some examples of exact switches that cause the "shoot the 9 ball" and switches that cause the "shoot the 7 ball" speech.

When you press the sound test button on the Squawk & Talk board in this machine, does it playback all the speech phrases?

Back to that opposite flashing of lamps during lamp test check the connections at the solenoid expander board and make sure there’s a working lamp in the socket adjacent to it. If the relay on that board is chattering during lamp test repin the connector. Try wiggling during test to confirm first.

I just reread your original post. So both S&T boards work in one machine. So the problem is in the game somewhere. There's a setting for sounds on page 7 of the manual. If you changed the MPU, the setting will default to 0. on coin door settings #18 you want option 3 for all electronic sounds and speech. First thing to do is clear the MPU if it's a Alltek and was used in another machine prior. Second, verify the dip switch settings are for EBD. The game speech should call out "eight ball deluxe 3 ball" if game is set for 3 balls or "eight ball deluxe 5 ball" if set for 5 after boot up.
Next do the self test for switches. Remove ball from trough, reset all drop target banks. With game in attract mode. Press the red self test button 5 times slowly to enter the switch test. If a 0 appears in the match/ball display window, you are off to a good start. Page 17 of the manual has a chart with the switch number assignment. Starting at #1 and close the corresponding switch and observe the display. Use the ball to activate the roll over switches and pop bumpers and slings. The rest can be done by hand but you will need to reset each individual drop target before going to the next The number of that switch should appear in the display. Don't forget about the tilt and slam switches. Take note of any switches that don't register.

Please report your results here. I still suspect and problem on the 7 bank DT area.

Looks ok, do all the solenoids work properly in self test? that expander board has given me fits in the past and caused all kinds of wacky problems. Sound is an issue I’m having as well. Does anyone know which device creates the -5vdc for the sound on the squawk and talk. Have you checked test point 4 for -5vdc we may have the same problem.

The -5VDC supply is created from the G.I AC wire that goes to the S&T board (on pin 7) that has a voltage doubler circuit (CR7, CR8, C37 and C38) which produces -9VDC (from memory). This -9V goes into the 7905 regulator at VR2 (which is a -5VDC regulator) and outputs -5VDC accordingly.

When you go to sound test mode on both machines, do they playback the same sound effect?

After powering on the game, what does it announce when entering attract mode?

Can you list all the lamps that are flashing opposite?
Are they opposite in full brightness or half brightness?
Are you running LEDs or incandescent lamps?

Sorry let me be more clear. Question was about the machines sound test mode, i.e. when you press the red self test coin door button 4 times. This helps tell us if the MPU board is correctly communicating with the sound board.
There are 4 signals between the MPU board and sound board that are used to select which sound/speech should be played. The protocol is that two commands are sent in quick succession to specify which sound/speech.
The first and second sound commands for "7 ball" are the same and ditto for "shoot the 9 ball" and also "You've got Solids". So from that it seems the S&T board isn't receiving/recognising *different* quick succession sound commands for other selected sounds/speech.
The result of the machines sound test mode might give another clue.

I'm glad you are getting closer to getting her 100%. You're a considerate father, I would have turned the volume down and kept going as this would be bugging me until I figured it out.

So back to the lamps. It seems that you may have a few that are locked on? Meaning they stay lit the entire time the game is on after boot up. This is an indication that the driver (SCR) for those lamps are shorted, or stuck. This is common in these old games but it's an easy fix if you can solder. You can ID the faulty SCR from the manual schematics. Since there are so many feature(switched) lamps on EBD, they added an auxiliary lamp driver behind the lamp insert panel of the back box, see page 10 of the manual, main lamp driver = A5 and aux = A9. Page 23 shows the parts list for A5 driver board. SCR's are "Q' for transistor. The A5 driver uses 2 different types of transistors so you will need to reference page 23 to see what one/s you need to replace.

The A9 board is on page 31. It has 28 SCR's but only uses one type. Wright down which lamps are stuck on and also any not lighting after you verified that the bulb and socket are good. If you have a VOM with an audible continuity feature, buz out any the lamps that are not lighting from the colored wire from the socket all the way to the corresponding connector at the driver board. Doing this will ensure that the SCR is actually bad and you're not replacing good parts. The schematics will help you with that. Once you ID the bad lamps, refer to the A5 lamp driver schematic page, W-1182-32c on the lower right corner of the page. On the right you will see the list of lamps. For example, J1 pin 18 is 1 Rack, follow trace to Q14. And so on.

If you didn't see the lamp you were looking for on A5, then it should be on A9. The A9 schematic is page W-1207-6c. Do the same here to ID the SCR in question.

Oh I forgot to mention, if ant lamps are not lighting, press on all of the connectors on both board while in attract mode to see if they light. This would indicate that the header pins need reflowing or the connector pin is bad.

Another reason for locked on lamps, but this is more rare, is something shorted to the switch matrix. Go over the playfield underside. Look for anything touching bare wires. Example, bent over lamp socket tab touching wires or metal. Disconnect the coin door plug after you start the game and look for any changes. Again, take a good look at the row of switches on the 7 DT bank.

Also the SEB will click in unison with the lamps in self test mode, first press of red button. If it chatters or clicks inconsistently, you may have a voltage problem or bad relay.

Ok, I guess that makes sense. Running the MPU board at double speed broke the sound command protocol. The second part of the sound select command being sent too soon to the S&T board caused it to drop the first part of the sent command resulting in the wrong sound being selected.

So there are 20 lamps in total that are flashing opposite in lamp test mode? If you can post a video showing attract mode and lamp test mode it would be very helpful.

Those 20 lamps are controlled by the main lamp driver board. Might be an idea to take that main lamp driver board from that suspect machine and put it into your good machine and see if the problem follows the board.

The lamps you listed as problematic are connected off the A5 main lamp driver board. I'd find it very unusual that you'd have 20 faulty SCRs on that Alltek A5 lamp driver board - hence you should first temporarily swap that board into your good game.

The Solenoid Expander Board (SEB) is for switching banks of solenoids. You mentioned that all solenoids are working. This SEB relay is actually controlled by the lamp driver board. The clicking of the relay during display test mode is an issue upstream from the SEB with the lamp driver board activating the relay. This is not a fault with the SEB/relay.

No that I know you have an Alltek lamp driver here are some easy things to check.
1 is the board grounded to the back back via screws to the mounting brackets?
2 is the grounding strap from the base cabinet attached to the grounding post in the bottom of the back box?
3 are you using LEDs in this game? If so, is the jumper from the lamp driver board connected and what is it connected to?
Add pic of connection if possible. If it was tied into the GI circuit that may cause big problems.
4 verify the connectors on the lamp driver are not off by a pin. I know they are keyed but you never know if a key fell out or someone had changed a connector in the past.
Run switch test when you get a chance. It won't take but maybe 10 to 15 minutes.

This is perfectly normal.
If you disconnect the J3 connector off the rectifier board, then TP3 will measure around 11.9 volts as listed on the rectifier board schematic. The J3 connector carries that 11.9 volt power to the solenoid driver board in the backbox which puts a large capacitor on that supply rail that stores energy and raises the voltage (generally between 14.5 volts and 17 volts).

Note, SCRs and transistors are two different beasts. A SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) is basically a DC switch, a transistor is a current amplifier.

This just keeps getting weirder. So yes, the SEB gets it's signal from the main lamp driver, J311 from lamp driver to SEB under pf lamp and then to J1 pin1 of the SEB. It should not be clicking while in display test mode. Perhaps disconnecting each display one at a time and see if the SEB stops clicking and/or the lamps start working correctly. You probably want to power down the game between disconnecting the displays due to the high voltage on these.

No.
It sounds to me with your lamp and SEB issues you've got a communication issue between the MPU board and the lamp driver board. Without seeing a video it's difficult to pinpoint..

Have you got an original Bally main lamp driver board? It'll make it easier to diagnose.
And have you got a logic probe?

Never disconnect/connect displays when the machine is on. Always power off first.

Yes, it looks like you've got a comms issue between the MPU board and main lamp driver board.

Can you please put the factory Bally main lamp driver board in this game so we can start diagnosing.

Do you have a logic probe?

BTW, please ignore the unusual things going on with the SEB, it's just a symptom created by the lamp driver board issue.

The Bally lamp board is simply easier to put measurement tools on plus schematics/diagrams are widely available. Trust me it will make life easier right now.

Looking at your video tells me you likely have an open circuit on the "Lamp Strobe #1" signal (orange-white wire) between the MPU board connector J1 pin 11 and the main lamp driver board connector J4 pin 13.

Since you don't have a logic probe, grab your multi-meter instead.
Set the multi-meter to read DC voltage - we will be working with voltages between 0 and 5 volts.
Connect the black meter lead to test point TP2 (GND) on the lamp driver board and hold it there.
Connect the red meter lead on pin 1 of the U1 chip during attract mode. What voltage do you measure?
While we're there, also measure the voltages at pins:
U1 pin 2
U1 pin 3
U1 pin 21
U1 pin 22

U1 pin 23
U2 pin 23
U3 pin 23
U4 pin 23

Pin 1 on the chips is the bottom left pin counting anti-clockwise to pin 24 which is top left.

Please report back the voltages. From memory you should be getting less than 2 volts on all these pins. Any that are on 5 volts indicates a bad connection between the MPU board and the lamp driver board.

Kiss_LDB-b.jpg

I had all kind of weird lamp issues on my EBD. Mostly lamps not lighting but also lamps lighting when they shouldn't. I was dreading it, but went ahead and replaced ALL the pf crappy lamp sockets with new ones. Once I did this the issues went away. Not saying this will fix everything but it will eliminate a failure point that may be adding confusion to your troubleshooting.

This voltage ^^^ is too high and is signifying that the flood gates to the lamp board are open with it activating lamps when it shouldn't. The MPU board is responsible for closing the gate via that orange-white wire I mentioned previously.

With the machine OFF, set your multi-meter to resistance mode.
Put one of the meter leads on pin 19 of the 40 pin chip at U8 on the MPU board. Pin 19 is the second bottom left pin.
Put the other meter lead on pin 1 of U1 chip on the lamp driver board.
Please report the resistance reading, it should be in the vicinity of 21k ohms.

With the machine ON in attract mode, measure the voltage on that pin 19 of the U8 chip on the MPU board.

The drop bank target requires a working Solenoid Expander Board which is activated by the lamp driver board. SCR Q54 on the lamp board is responsible for activating the SEB, so that SCR might be suspect.

That OEM lamp driver board is not original for EBD, it's from an older late 70's Bally with real chimes. It is plugin compatible though.

This meter test was supposed to be done with the machine off But since you did it with the machine on and the lights worked properly, it confirmed an open circuit on that orange-white wire (Lamp Strobe #1 signal) between the MPU board and the lamp driver board.

You need to investigate where the bad connection is. At the MPU board it's connector J1 pin 11. At the lamp driver board it's J4 pin 13.

Your J4 connector at the lamp driver board has the black cover missing (the only connector at the lamp driver board with the black cover is the one at J2). It means you have access to the connector terminals in that J4 connector.

If the black cover on the J1 connector at the MPU board is in place, slide the black cover up or down to remove it.

Lift both of those connectors off the boards only enough (say 2mm) so you have access to the board pins. Carefully jumper a wire from the respective pin to the exposed connector terminal where the orange-white wire is to find the open circuit. You'll need to do it at both connectors.

Good luck!

Can you post a picture of the J1 MPU board connector clearly showing the color wires?

NOTE, the MPU board connector pins start with pin 1 at the top and count downwards.
For some odd reason the lamp driver board connectors are opposite with pin 1 at the bottom of the connectors and count upwards.
The 11th pin from the bottom of the MPU J1 connector is orange-red, that's actually pin 18 so you're counting from the wrong end