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(Topic ID: 136880)

Eight Ball Deluxe Problems


By troxel

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by troxel
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

P1100966.jpg
P1100962.jpg
EBDflippers.jpg
Ballywirecolor.jpg
P1100961.jpg

#1 5 years ago

Working on an 8BD with a few problems. Game would boot intermittently. Went through Clay's guide and upgraded the Solenoid board and replaced some headers and connectors. Game now boots but the the top left flipper is locking on immediately. What should I check for this?

The other problem is no sound. I don't want to leave the game on with the flipper engaged, so haven't dug too deep into the sound issue, but curious to hear what's the best way to troubleshoot this. Connectors or caps a bigger culprit or neither?

I appreciate any help and thanks!

#2 5 years ago

Start with the header connectors on the Squawk and Talk, inspect for cracks and reflow with fresh solder as necessary. Then check the volume pots on the S&T and the coin door volume pot. Do you get any noise from the speaker now, hum or static when you adjust the volume? If not, the amp could be bad or not getting power.

#3 5 years ago

For the flipper, the likely culprit is a bad diode on the flipper coil. Once that problem is fixed, check the voltages on the S & T board. If one of them is off or not present it's easy to narrow down the problem.

#4 5 years ago

I had problem w/ my sound on 8balldlx.

I replaced all the caps on the sound board. Works great now.

#5 5 years ago

I cut both diodes and both tested good. Measured ohms on the coil and got 0.4 from the left lug (3 wires) to the middle and 3.6 from the middle to the right lug (one wire). Does this indicate the coil is bad? I had an extra solenoid boad, and switched that in and had same problem (flipper immediately sticks up).

Any other things to check for the flipper?

#6 5 years ago

A flipper sticking up is rare on this vintage Bally. When you first turn it on, the flipper enable relay cuts power to the flippers. Does the flipper lock on at Power UP or at Game Up?

Check the lower flipper assembly. Piggy-backed on the lower flipper's EOS switch (the first one that gets opened) is a power feed switch to the upper flipper. This switch should be open and then get closed just as the first switch opens.

#7 5 years ago

Flipper locks on during power up. Looked at both switches on the lower flipper, and both look good.

P1100961.jpg

#8 5 years ago

You should be running around 3.3ohms on the small wire coil and .350ohms an the other one. Sounds like your numbers are pretty close. If the top left flipper is energizing immediately and the bottom left is not it is local to that flipper because they are energized on the same circuit. 1) I would look at the wiring of the flipper coil closely for a short. Even a loose blob of wayward solder can do it. 2) Check that the wiring is accurate. The schematic will give you the right answers there.

#9 5 years ago

I did not see any short and the wiring looks correct. Focusing on A3J1-8&9, A3J2-1&2, and the flipper enable on A3J3-5. Am I missing any other wires?

I unplugged all the connectors from the solenoid board, and the flipper still locks on. Does this narrow my search at all?

Appreciate all the help so far!

#10 5 years ago

OK. Now it's getting interesting. Your 43vdc rail is powered straight from the power dist board (A2) and it HAS to be shorted somewhere. If you disconnected everything from the SDB it must be local to the coil. Can you get a decent picture of it? Things are pretty crowded there. Is there maybe a wire long enough to get crunched when you lower the field down? Put the field up against the back box and try it again. Does it still lock up?

Ballywirecolor.jpg

EBDflippers.jpg

#11 5 years ago

All coils have power immediately at power up. The flipper relay controls the ground path, the flipper button controls the ground path, the normally open EOS switch on the lower flipper controls the ground path, the connectors on the SDB control the ground path.

All of these items are open/disconnected so the problem is not related to the flipper circuit itself.

Look at the upper flipper coil and check the black/white wire. Test and see if it's shorted to the ground braid. If so, follow the wire and see if you can find the short.

#12 5 years ago

Flippers engages while playfield is up or down. I am getting 8.4 ohms from the black/white wire to the ground braid. Here is some photos of the upper flipper.

P1100962.jpg

P1100966.jpg

#13 5 years ago

On a side note, I am replacing the 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x drop targets, and the drop target assembly is taken apart. Could this affect the flipper?

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

I am getting 8.4 ohms from the black/white wire to the ground braid.

So while not a direct connection to ground, it's probably finding a path through another circuit, like the lamp or switch matrix. Follow black/white wire and look for breaks in the insulation, or maybe the wire got pinched under a lamp, switch or playfield mech.

#15 5 years ago

dothedoo--you were exactly right! The black/white wire (and another wire) was underneath a screw and was shorted. The flipper is now working and moving to the no sound issue.

I recapped the S&T board and resoldered the header pins, and still no sound. Adjusting the pots all the way does occasionally make a humming noise, but can't get any sounds or speech. Calling it a night, but wondering what the next step is.

Thanks for all the help.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

dothedoo--you were exactly right! The black/white wire (and another wire) was underneath a screw and was shorted. The flipper is now working and moving to the no sound issue.
I recapped the S&T board and resoldered the header pins, and still no sound. Adjusting the pots all the way does occasionally make a humming noise, but can't get any sounds or speech. Calling it a night, but wondering what the next step is.
Thanks for all the help.

What are you getting as far as flashes on the S&T board on boot up? There's walk-through of the flashes for that board on Pinwiki
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Squawk_.26_Talk_Sound_Board_Troubleshooting

Blink codes are a page or two down. Those will help pigeonhole your problem.

#17 5 years ago

Here's the video of the flashes. I checked the +5, -5, and +12. All were good and the + 12 was about 14. It looks like I am getting 3 flashes? Is this correct? If so, I replaced u11 socket and tried a different 6821 and still getting no sound.

#18 5 years ago

I was messing with the connector and got the sound to boot. Figured the connector was bad and replaced the header and connector, and still getting the no sound. Currently replacing sockets and cleaning chips and waiting for 2 pots to come in the mail.

Any advice one what the next step should be?

#19 5 years ago

Is the board booting completely now with 5 flashes? If so, just for fun, have you checked the physical connection between the board and the speaker? Is the speaker blown out? Sometimes they can be in pretty bad shape with corroded connectors and such.

#20 5 years ago

Still getting three flashes. It booted once, but haven't been able to boot since. Speaker is good. That was one of the first things I checked. Anything other suggestions?

#21 5 years ago

Hmmm. By the wiki, the next thing is to replace the 6821 at U-11 which you already tried. At this point it is starting to look like your flipper problem. Not the usual suspect and hard to find. My next option would be to examine the board very closely. Best done with a magnifying glass and a decent flashlight. Start anywhere it appears work has been done that does not look like factory soldering. Check for solder blobs that are making bridges. Especially if anyone has replaced a chip. I spent several days trying to fix a SDB until I did this and saw where someone had replaced a chip and there were teeny tiny solder bridges between two pins. Once I cleaned that up, it was all good. If all seems good on the back, move to the front. Look closely at the disc caps that weren't replaced, resistors, diodes, etc. If any appear a little wonky, pull and test. Best I can offer for now. Good luck!

1 week later
#22 5 years ago

Still trying to figure this board out. I have replaced all the sockets, caps, headers and connectors, and the 2 pots. Tested the speaker and it was fine. Still getting 3 flashes. I have switched out the PIA and still getting 3 flashes.

I checked the PIA, CPU, and U12 with a probe and found no floating pins. The buffer tested good, too.

Wondering if I need to order u12 (AY-3-8912). Does this chip need programmed or not?

Any other thoughts?

#23 5 years ago

You're pretty much over my head at this point. Sorry.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

Wondering if I need to order u12 (AY-3-8912). Does this chip need programmed or not?

Any other thoughts?

Sound synthesizer is not programmable. You can borrow my S&T and I think I have a spare sound chip you can use too.

#25 5 years ago

Are you getting

Flicker, Flash, Flash

or

Flicker, Flash, Flash, Flash

?

[Edit: Oops, just watched the video]

The first flicker is more of a blink, but four blinks total. That looks like it's at the point of testing U12 by way of U11. Did you move the U11 PIA over to the MPU board to make sure it's good?

#26 5 years ago

I switched out the PIA with one from the MPU. I switched in another just for good measure and still didn't work.

Thanks, dothedoo! Hopefully with another boardset, I can switch some parts around, or at least check some of the signals.

1 month later
#27 5 years ago

Forgot to update this post. Sounds is now working! Thanks to dothedoo for letting me borrow a spare board! I replaced u12 (AY-3-8912) and the sounds came back.

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