(Topic ID: 172760)

Eight Ball Deluxe-Pop Bumper and Slingshot solenoids not working

By vibby3

5 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by bjmclrn
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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bally-color-codes (resized).jpg
EBD-matrix (resized).jpg
ebd-switch-matrix (resized).jpg

#1 5 years ago

Hello- The Pop Bumper and Slingshot solenoids are not working on my Eight Ball Deluxe. All other solenoids are working fine. I checked the fuses and all test out just fine. What is unique about the solenoids for the Pop Bumpers and Slingshots. Is it related to the Solenoid expander Board, which I know was added to this game because of the high number od solenoids used? Thanks for any direction you can give me.

#2 5 years ago

Usually it's the underfield fuse.

Could be a broken wire at any of the coil lugs.

#3 5 years ago

Check fuse, then get your meter out:

Note how power daisychains from one coil to the next.

Find the last coil that has power in the chain, and then you have found the problem.

#4 5 years ago

Well.... you guys were right on the money. Underfield fuse checked out fine so started following the power daisychain between solenoids and found a broken wire on one of the pop bumpers. Got out my trusty soldering gun and yes... everything worked. Brought a big smile to my face when I dropped the ball onto the playfield and everything started popping. Thanks!

4 years later
#5 9 months ago

Have the same issues. Will check the daisy chain this evening. However, for me, the pops and the slings work in Test Mode.. Just not IN Game. Any ideas on that vid1900 ? The solenoid expander board is new, all fuses are good, replaced a few connectors here and there, the MPU is the altex ultimate mpu. I also rebuilt the power supply.

#6 9 months ago
Quoted from Occelot:

Have the same issues. Will check the daisy chain this evening. However, for me, the pops and the slings work in Test Mode.. Just not IN Game. Any ideas on that vid1900 ? The solenoid expander board is new, all fuses are good, replaced a few connectors here and there, the MPU is the altex ultimate mpu. I also rebuilt the power supply.

Go into Switch Test and see if the switches register the correct numbers

If we look at the Switch Matrix, what is common about your Pops and Slings....?

ebd-switch-matrix (resized).jpg
#7 9 months ago

A4J2-5? In switch test (Well, the test that tests for closed switches) I get 02 in the score display. To my knowldge this is the drop target "3X".

#8 9 months ago

Make sure to remove the ball and reset all the drop targets before putting the game in switch test. Do you still get that number coming up on the displays?

#9 9 months ago

The playfield is on it's stomach, all the DT's are up, and the ball is not in the game. The 3X DT is registering closed, even though it is open. I read somewhere that it could be a bad diode? Makes sense.. As that would effectively close the switch.

#10 9 months ago
Quoted from Occelot:

The playfield is on it's stomach, all the DT's are up, and the ball is not in the game. The 3X DT is registering closed, even though it is open. I read somewhere that it could be a bad diode? Makes sense.. As that would effectively close the switch.

Definitely worth getting a closer look there. Make sure it's wired correctly, and if you have a spare diode it couldn't hurt to replace it.

#11 9 months ago

What's weird is... I totally removed the 02 wire (brown w/white tracing) form the MPU. But it still throws 02 in the switch test. When I remove the entire connector from the MPU, I do not get the 02 message. I get 0.

#12 9 months ago

When you remove that wire, you're taking the strobe side out of the equation but not the return side. There's a brown/yellow wire on the return side of the 3x switch. It's at J2 pin 9 on the MPU. Still get the switch coming up with that wire removed?

#13 9 months ago

A bad diode will not cause a switch to show stuck.

Quoted from Occelot:

What's weird is... I totally removed the 02 wire (brown w/white tracing) form the MPU. But it still throws 02 in the switch test. When I remove the entire connector from the MPU, I do not get the 02 message. I get 0.

Switch 02 lives at the intersection of St-0 and I-1. Neither of those is a 65 (brown white) wire. I1 is 63, brown yellow and St0 is 51, white red. Did you repin J2? it sounds like you have wires crossed.

#14 9 months ago

blah sorry I meant brown and yellow. Brown with a yellow tracer coming from 3X DT. I'm suspecting the same BigAl56 . Where did you get those wire colors? I am having a hard time reading and getting info from these schematics

#15 9 months ago

Wire color code is in a box at the bottom of many schematic pages

#16 9 months ago

oh man I know. But these damn EBD specific schematic.. Pain in the ass.

#17 9 months ago

But, I can rule out the lamp driver, aux lamp driver, solenoid expander, and the solenoid driver boards at this point right? Or is there something in the driver boards that control switch logic as well? Again, in test_ all solenoids fire.

#18 9 months ago

The switches run up to the mpu, so i would keep my focus there. Do you want to post a pic of the playfield switch connector from the mpu? It's the one at the top right of the board. Maybe a keen eye will catch something askew.

#19 9 months ago
Quoted from Occelot:

Again, in test_ all solenoids fire.

Solenoid Test ONLY tests if the solenoids are working (good coils, good wires up to driver board, good transistors....)

Solenoid Test does NOT tell you if the switches are working.

Solenoid Test will fire the coils, even without the switches connected.

-

So.....if you go into Switch Test, and you find out that everything broken is in a single column, that REALLY narrows down the cause, right?

If I know the pops and slingshots (all in a single column) are all non responsive, I would go to the next switch (rollover button) and see if that works in Switch Test. If Rollover is dead, I'd check the next switch (saucer switch)....

Did the game ever work? Or did it quit working after you redid the connections?

#20 9 months ago

I re-did the connections in hopes to solve this issue.

Here's a little graphic that highlights the issues. The rollover switch registers the "3 ball" target. Can that give us a clue as to what's going on?

I also made a note of the colors in J2 connector on MPU:

(pin: color/trace)

1: White/Red
2: Orange
3:Grey/Yellow
4: White/Yellow
5:Yellow/Red
6: (keyed)
7: (none)
8: White/Green
9: Brown/Yellow
10: White/Orange
11: Orange/Black
12: Brown
13: White/Brown
14: Brown/White
15: White/Blue

Is anyone able to confirm these are accurate? I looked in the schematic and can't seem to find the color codes.

I'm assuming "Single Drop Target" is the Eight Ball DT. I have also buzzed them all out and they all have continuity where applicable. But I suppose I can check that again if it will help.

EBD-matrix (resized).jpg

#21 9 months ago

Every few pages on the schematic has the color codes at the bottom:

bally-color-codes (resized).jpg
#22 9 months ago

Well dang~ Looks like there are some wrong already So I'm guessing the J2-2 is 78, which means Orange w/black?

#23 9 months ago

damn, well it looks like the colors match up.

#24 9 months ago

Trying to wrap my head around how the 3ball would sound if someone hits the roll over target. Because they're in the same row, does that mean one of the diodes could be failed, allowing electricity to flow backward and close the switch?

#25 9 months ago

Sometimes 2 diodes are shorted, or 1 reversed and one capacitor shorted

That's why I asked if the game ever worked in your possession

#26 9 months ago

No I received the game like this.

#27 9 months ago

Go through with your meter and check

Replace ALL original greenish Bally switch caps (in any row, not just the bad row)

Look carefully at the orientation of any diode that's been serviced

Replace any diode that does not read like the others

Look for solder splash on the switch terminals

You'll suddenly find the problem

#28 9 months ago

Thanks. Does it matter which diodes I use? I have a bunch of the diodes that are used for solenoids, however the switch diodes are much smaller.

#30 9 months ago

yep, 4004 will work and are very heavy duty for the job

Quoted from Occelot:

Gunna pick up some of these too..

ebay.com link » Qty 100 047uf 50v 20 Z5u Axial Ceramic Mlcc Capacitors Sa055e473maa Avx

Tayda has them for less than a penny each, and tons of other components for your pins:

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/ceramic-disc-capacitors/10-x-0-047uf-50v-ceramic-disc-capacitor-pkg-of-10.html

#31 9 months ago

Hi,
on a similar but slightly different vane. I have built a gottlieb flying carpet from scratch ie from the playfield up and used microcomputers to replace most of the em stuff. I have the proper gottlieb chimes absolutely fantastic. Here is the problem. All new coils brackets etc 3 pop bumpers from same psu but all three have slightly different power. i have rectified it by using PWM to set pulses so all are the same now. Is this something that i should expect or is something sticking perhaps.

#32 9 months ago

Check the ohms of your pop coils and make sure they are all the same.

Manually work the pops and see if they move effortlessly

Make sure your coil stops are not magnitized

#33 9 months ago

hi thanks i did check all coils are new as are the stops, but i think you have spotted something, there is definately a difference in resistance on moving the pop bumpers. I am wondering if the springs are different strength or maybe rubbing on the playfield, will have look and report back

#34 9 months ago

found the problem i did buy new springs and thought i had fitted them however it looks like a fitted a mix of some old ones and new ones, a right old muddle, fixed now with new springs and fine now. Looked at some online videos of flying carpet and the pop bumpers dont look particularly strong so will dial down mine to be more like how they were.

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