(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1324 Explanation of paints used for screen printing Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)

Post #1325 What happens when white is used as a base in paint Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)

Post #1331 Double screening on playfields Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)


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#500 3 years ago

Re-restoration (is that even a word?) of my "returned" EBD "Classic" #527 (as I call it), 12 years after I built game from spare parts.

Cabinet #1088.
Backbox #321
Internal Parts #527
Backglass #866
Playfield #128

Playfield does not look too bad for a 32-year old game and thousands of plays.

I wish there was a play meter on this particular machine, easily over 50-60k total plays. Probably more.

IMG_20160303_202149_(resized).jpg

#506 3 years ago

"Frankenstein" plays VERY fast with a TZ Powerball™.
Mini "cue ball" per say.

Putting the game back up on a 2X4 with full height 3 inch leg levelers makes the game virtually unplayable.
Pushing close to 10 degree incline.
(Tilt switch has to be adjusted severely).
10-15 second ball times.
I used to to do this to tweak off people who said they were good at pinball.
They get humbled quick.

Cabinet repaint continues.
This photo was taken about 3-4 weeks ago.
Back to stock colors and now "redux" full color was started.
Working on the lower cabinet french curves after the new side rails, rear glass channel and cabinet fixes, and then back to the top again to finish the two color skin tones.
Then back again to the lower cabinet to work out the dark yellows again (the flash washes the colors out).
Then back to the blacks for pinstriping and clear coating.
A whole lot of hours here and not even close to clear coating.
Still need to do some small clean ups on the playfield as well.

25d4b374fd699e8fbde2757e440eece38beecc0f_(resized).jpg

1 week later
#508 3 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

I'd like to redo the apron on my EBD Classic version. Are there decals to be had out there anywhere?

No such animal for the black "Bally-Midway" version has ever been made to my knowledge.
Too low in production numbers to make it worthwhile.
Only the original decals and actual aprons themselves.
Possible to replace with a used EBDLE black apron, or have someone make a scan and recreate.
Recreation would be fairly direct, but would be relatively inexpensive with vinyl with backing adhesive, similar to when someone needed to recreate an "unobtainium" backglass.

#512 3 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

I have the same version EBD. Black apron with Bally-Midway on it. Gold over red. I'm working on it...

Always good to see reproduction parts remade for purpose, even if in small numbers.

1 week later
#518 3 years ago

EBD "Classic" cabinet repaint continues.
This gives a better idea of what the final product will look like in time with shading.
6 color lower cabinet, 11 color backbox.
You can see on the backbox where no work has been started.
I flip back and forth on both sides to keep everything identical.

EBD_Cabinet_Transform_(resized).jpg

#526 3 years ago

I don't recommend removing D1M on games that are over 30+ years old, and in some case less than 20 years.
However, it depends on the experience of the restorer, the title of the game, and the type of mylar coating used to cover the PF.
Not all removal methods work on different types of mylar coatings, but the majority of time bad results are purely due to lack of patience.
The results can be absolutely disastrous, as the inserts and surrounding paint layers can be "heat welded" to the the mylar due to feature lighting and age.

Dependent on polishing skills you can bring D1M nearly up to CC standards, but it takes a ton of work and significant amount of hours.
Several hundred hours of polishing can make it go truly "clear" again.

I actually have seen someone try to CC over a D1M PF, and that was even worse concept.
When the glue on the mylar lifts the CC is destroyed and then the PF is very hard to repair.

In the case of the above playfield, I would not touch it.
I already see signs of bubbling on inserts.

#533 3 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

Can anyone recommend the best place to buy replacement blue star posts and the nylon nut covers for above the plastics on an EBD Classic?

The factory original posts are "finned" (blue or red).

http://www.pbresource.com/plastic/bly-c952-1.jpg

Higher in cost, harder to find.

Modern "star" posts are common in quantity and color at all major primary suppliers (PL, PBR, MS, BAA, etc)
Depends on what you want to do.

#541 3 years ago

"First round" EBD cabinet restoration completion before final color edging, fine detail pinstriping, side black painting touchup, and clear coat.

Getting closer.

IMG_20160329_015803_(resized).jpg

#544 3 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

Looks fantastic! Did you just paint over the decal, or did you strip everything down to wood and start there? I have an EBD Classic that could use some touch up, and this has me inspired to take to a higher level.

This is stencil and hand painting.
Stencils for things like French curves and edging.

No strip down, just clean up.
The challenge was finding the right colors for contrast and fading while still keeping with the game factory "roots".

#546 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

.

From every example I've seen over the years, the 1984-85 Midway "Classic" edition used the translucent blue star posts with nylon acorn nuts while the earlier versions used the traditional Bally ringed posts with the rubber post caps.
I won't say that's absolute but it's the way it's been from my experience.
Marco Specialties as well as most other suppliers should have the blue star posts.

I dont recall seeing a classic with ringed posts either. I thought the poster had an LE and needed ring posts, but does look Blitz has a '84. I like chome acorn nuts in games too instead of nylon.
Personal preferences, although I generally go stock with a few exceptions.

#554 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I check the CPR site every 6 months or so just to see if they will serve the clamoring masses with another EBD pf run. Am I reading this right? Are they cutting new boards?? And if they are, did I miss out (again)??!! Possible aaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh.....

You can buy mine at cost, if I decide not use it. It still will be at least 6-9+ months before they are ready, and if these have all proper inserts stocked.

1 week later
#565 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

What's the going price for a nice EBD LE now days?

Depends on what you are considering in terms of quality.

A fully restored game (1981) with NOS or repo PF, re stenciled cabinet, all new boards, new plastics, and near perfect backglass?
Playfield $1000 (factory clear coat)
Re Stenciled rebuilt cabinet $1000 (I mean perfect, including wood rebuild)
All new boards including power supply $800
New plastics $135
Perfect backglass or reproduction $350-450 (if found)
Restoration work $2000+
Easily over $5k, but can go much higher dependent on your location.

If you want a superb example, around $2000-2500, but will have sort of flaws like minor playfield wear, or cabinet scratches, probably not overly noticeable.
Players quality game you can get for under $1500, closer to $800-1200, dependent on condition.

#576 3 years ago

Something I always found interesting about this specific title was the number of clones, conversion kits, and copycats that most are not even aware of during the early 80s.

I just had to remind myself of a couple of examples.
Let's see if you recognize the playfield and backglass designs...

Sure Shot (Taito Brazil, 1981) - http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4574
Pin Ball Pool (Bell, 1983) - http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=3310

There are a couple more as well, I just cannot remember their names and manufacturers overseas.
I know they are not listed in the IPDB, and I would have to find photos in my archives.
One backglass would make an interesting head turner at a pinball show if it was swapped out for a joke.
"WTF is that"?

#579 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Hey guys. Got a nasty hum on the EBD audio. Odd thing is that it comes and goes (usually some baseline buzz actually). I'm guessing that it's the PS caps or possibly a bad rectifier. Is this where you guys would start looking ?? Tnx...

Cap kit first, if not already rebuilt.
Next can be simply be the pot, clean the wipers with mini screwdriver adjustments to both directions (carefully and deliberately).

After that, more testing, and return if required....
Rectifier is down on the list, not generally the cause.

#583 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Anybody know where to score the big caps (C26,C23) on the EBD voltage regulator module? They are 160 MFD,350V and 11700MFD,20v respectively. Tnx..

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/
Pinball Repair Kits--->Bally--->Regulators
You can get them from other sources as well.

#586 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Anyone know what kind of switch I need at the outhole? Mines all beat up and I want to get a new one in there as it acts flaky from time to time. I'm sure it's just a generic switch but want to make sure I get the right one.
Thanks!

Single contact, normally open, short length leaf switch with return resistance bar.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1981/index.html
Switch #ASW-A1-143

I am assuming you are not talking about the rollover wire.
In essence, a WMS style flipper EoS switch used for the outhole (by reversing it) or part of a pop bumper switch, in a pinch.

Might want to test your solenoid expander board under the playfield first, as these go bad over time and cause outhole kicker issues that are unrelated to the switch, but will make it look like the switch is bad when it is not.

#590 3 years ago

I recommend a contact file for burnishing, as I am not a fan of dremels as they are too aggressive.
That switch still has life in it yet, unless there is some type of electrical arcing causing corrosion that should NOT be occurring.
If it does give up the ghost, you can pry it apart and rebuild one with other sized leaf switches, if you cannot find an original.
You can even use a small drop of solder on the contacts to build up the surface area, but that is only for temporary purposes.

burnishingtool_(resized).jpg

#600 3 years ago
Quoted from kjgolf:

I've had this EBD for several months and we still can't get it to play. The playfield fuse keeps blowing and burned up the pop bumper coil. Disconnected it and tested all diodes. Still no luck. Also no sound. Can't find new board but can change all the capacitors, but hate to work on that if it won't fix it. Any suggestions?

WHICH FUSE on the power module?
Solenoid power?
Display high voltage?
Please be more specific.
Disconnect the solenoid, sound, and lamp boards. Use only the MPU for initial testing. Are getting full flashes up to solenoid start up?
Then add the solenoid driver board.
If you accurately tested the diodes by removing on lead from each coil, you still have a coil short.
You will need to test them individually in sequence to find the short in test mode, if the game gets to its game over sequence. It It does not, you have a "dead wire" short on the playfield.

Additionally, have you tested the voltages coming out of the power module first?
Bridge rectifiers...

#606 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Hey guys. Couple of questions. The "C" rollover is no longer registering on my machine. Burnished the contacts, checked the gap and tried a jumper across the contacts w/ no joy. Seems like it might be closer to the brain. Ideas? Second, lesser concerning problem is some lifting and flaking of the black paint along one edge of the back glass. Is it cool to carefully remove the flaked portion and repaint? What paint? Thanks as always...

Molex connector on MPU.
Seal backglass with triple thick or use acrylic clear coat with brush, DO NOT peel!

2 weeks later
#655 3 years ago

I had a conversation with Sam Harvey at Pin-A-Go-Go about some of the above EBD "facts". He was decisively vigilant that EBD was the best early SS ever made at least in gameplay. It was a very friendly debate, and unusual since he normally is focused on EMs. He really needs to put together a "will" based on his vast repository.

#657 3 years ago
Quoted from Jgaltr56:

Hello,
Posting some photos of my EBDLE back glass here. Hoping to get some feedback on its condition and whether I should attempt a repair or just leave it alone. I know there is some debate on using triple thick to seal it vs. doing nothing. I'd like to touch up the black but not if it will makes things worse. It will stay in a temperature controlled, clean environment for the rest of its days. Thanks in advance!

This backglass can be repaired fairly easily as it is "in the black" due to the lock latch wear rubbing.
The other pin hole damage is very minor.
It needs to be sealed at the top anyway to prevent additional damage.
You do not require a full seal with Triple Thick.

Let me explain your best option:

Take enamel based black gloss *glass* paint and coat the top of the backglass with only a small overlap on the edges.
You will need to use multiple coats and let each layer dry.
Use a LED flashlight to determine the translucency errors in the black painting.
Once you can a good solid coat, use mirror silver paint to finish the job of the spot touch area with acrylic clear with brush.
Do not paint the coat of the mirror silver until AFTER you acrylic the rub area.

Repair order (top area):

1) Clean the area of any residue, but do not touch existing ink screening
2) Decontaminate the area with rubbing alcohol
3) Paint the upper area black with enamel glass paint
4) Recoat until area is non-permeated with light
5) Seal area with brush on acrylic clear
6) Paint with mirror silver paint to match surrounding ink screening

If the latch area is rubbing, adjust the lock if needed.
Additionally, you may need to use a *small* mylar circle on top of the silver mirror paint.
If this is required, coat the silver mirror coat with acrylic clear in the that area FIRST.
If you take your time, this area with be restored to original condition, and the damage will be unnoticeable.

I cannot see the pin holes well at the bottom, so I do not know how many colors are involved as they are close to GI bulbs.
If this area is done poorly, people will spot the work, and it will look like a$$, so I would probably leave it alone.

1 week later
#667 3 years ago

"Standards" (loose term):

Early EMs and wedgeheads, 3 degrees
Through the 70s (EMs), 3.5-4 degrees.
Early 80s, 4.5-5.5 degrees (including EBD)
Late 80s-90s, 6-6.5 degrees
Modern games, 6.5-7.5 degrees (The latter end is a little extreme on route games especially if flippers are weak)

Personally, I prefer a powerball ("cueball") in my game at 6.5 degrees.
You have to use a wood slat to get this angle.

#670 3 years ago

There was a short period where aftermarket decals were made for 1981 version of the game somewhere in the early 2000s.
They were complete garbage quality, but some brokers/dealers slapped them on a game for a quick sale, and it worked.
Many faded within just a couple of years, and the ink quality was poor.
Once proper stencils began to made no one looked back, and collectors generally repainted their games themselves as it was straightforward on a 3 color design.
Many sanded those decals right off the games.
Any time you see a "shiny" EBD cabinet, it was either those decals, a 1984 version or the owner clear coated the cabinet, if an inspector does not know the difference between models.

1984 original EBD "Classic" decals don't "peel", they "crack", mostly due to the particle board sides.
The artwork color is completely different than the 1981 and 1982 models.
There is no aged gold in the 1984 version, and the "8" in the eight ball is not split in design its solid.

1982 LE started the change for the insert lamp socketed boards in the late part of the run, and Bally Midway used them on all 1984 EBD "Classics".
Latest Mr. Pinball Price Guide puts EBDC up to 2568 units produced which surprised me as prior reports listed around 1500.
Trend prices of the 1984 version have overtaken the original, but this is most likely due to the increase of 1984 models "coming out of the corners" in response to continued desirability of the title, not necessarily based on condition.

3 weeks later
#705 3 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

Hello all, I just bought a player's EBD 2 weeks ago, as seems to be the trend lately I buy a game, it comes to my house and takes a big dump.
I'm trying to get the sound working again. Can someone post up a few pics of connector J1? It's the 18-pin connector along the bottom. Look how nice mine was before I re-did it. lol

Why not just use the manual schematic to crosscheck the wiring?
The color coding is on the page along with locations.

If you do not have one, download the pdf.
The reason I say this is you should check ALL connectors on the sound board anyway when upgrading to MOLEX.

#712 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Hi all, I received the repro plastics from Pinball Heaven.
Where does this piece go? It wasn't on my machine before, and I can't figure out where it's supposed to go. Haven't started putting it together as I'm still waiting on LEDs to arrive... maybe when it's going together it will be obvious, but I haven't found a home for it yet.
Thanks!

That is for the corner pocket (eight ball target) left side clear lane that was used on some machines. Most had the multi curved piece with grooves for the ball around the target an pinch point at the top saucer from the factory. Those that did not used this piece, with different drill holes. I cannot tell you how many had the variations, as I have only only seen a couple with this style.

#715 3 years ago
Quoted from pindude80:

Hello all, I just bought a player's EBD 2 weeks ago, as seems to be the trend lately I buy a game, it comes to my house and takes a big dump.
I'm trying to get the sound working again. Can someone post up a few pics of connector J1? It's the 18-pin connector along the bottom. Look how nice mine was before I re-did it. lol

This is my J1 when I got my EBD Classic back about 5 months ago after 12 years being gone.
Looks like when I originally restored the game I did not have an 18 pin MOLEX connector after rebuilding the board.
I am pretty sure this is what it looked like back in 2004.

For reference, this game is using a Squawk and Talk P2948-446 AS2518-61 Rev D board.
Your game may be using a different revision, but essentially they are the same, with reliability improvements.

The individual that mashed up your J1 did not have a proper IDC tool, and used a flat head screwdriver.
I am not going to comment on the use of solder to splice wires together as a "method", as it should be apparent regarding my opinion.

20160629_171943.jpg

1 week later
#738 3 years ago
Quoted from Pmaino:

Has anyone installed an Alltek Ultimate MPU in their Eight Ball deluxe?
I did today and noticed that some of the sounds are incorrect. My game loads up properly and all the sounds are correct up to that that point. Once I start a game some of the top rollover lane sounds are now chimes and the left rollover targets sound is incorrect.
I cleared the memory on the MPU board and made sure I have the correct dip switch settings for eight ball deluxe. This did not help. I put back my old MPU and the sounds were correct.
Any suggestions here?
Thanks,
Pete

This is not a hard MPU dipswitch setting, it is a game adjustment setting.
When you swapped MPU it reset the feature by default.
It is detailed in the manual.
This applies to nearly all early Bally games from 1978-1984.

Go to diagnostics.
Press red self test button to #18 in credit display.
Change setting to "03".
Cycle through remaining settings until reset.
Sounds restored.

Chimes actually sound better on some games, but not EBD.

#739 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Is there really supposed to be a post under the metal ball stop?

The part is called a "left rebound ball gate with flap".
There is a blue post underneath the left side gate used during the ball plunge.
I have a tall blue post version installed, manual does not specify height.

#742 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

My manual (yellow cover) doesn't specify post locations. It also does not differentiate between metal or plastic posts. Any idea where one gets that info?

Based on memory there are only two physical manuals for the game, the original '81 and '82 LE.
The '84 Classic used the original manual with a different Bally-Midway cover, even though there were wiring color differences.

Neither describes exact post height (or quantity), as you stated, which means it then has to be cross referenced BACK to the actual part in the Bally parts catalogs, sometimes that annotated the parts in a game specific fashion annotation.
That is how it was done during that period for "generic" parts, but was also done often even today with "master parts catalogs" used by Stern.
That is where the information is contained.

I have the parts manuals in my library, but I am trying to give you a direct link to pdf versions which just do not exist, if they were never scanned.

PPS has a version in its weird "book" website application.
Eight Ball Deluxe is the the 1981 Bally Parts Catalog.
The Bally "generic" one is not even listed for review.

http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=BOOK

Post Long is Bally Part No. C-952-7
Post Short is Bally Part No. C-951-7

If it somewhere else in reference, I have no other leads for the *factory* configuration, as the line up of the plastic height determines the height of the post required.
The data will not be contained in the generic catalog.
If the plastic (clear or screened) is "bending downwards" that mean you are using the wrong post height for that location.
EBD post height normally is determined by the clear plastics locations.
This is not relevant for the post under the left rebound ball gate flap as both work equally.

2 weeks later
#773 3 years ago

EBD "Classic" #527 full color cabinet repaint complete with clear coating.
11 color backbox, 7 color lower cabinet.
Playfield photo was from an older posting.
Photos were shot with my phone, so this was a quickie.

A few black clear coat touch ups, and the game gets folded and put back in storage.

Tools used were predominantly, stencils, painters tape, french curves, protractor, multiple brush types, steady hand, and patience.
Paints used were oil, acrylic, and enamel, based on what I was trying to accomplish with nature of work, and the need to ensure ability to correct if a mistake was made.
Enamel was used for base coats.

Not being color blind was another advantage.

EBD1R.jpg
EBD2L.jpg
EBD3.jpg

EBDPF.jpg

1 week later
#795 3 years ago

Joe Kace at Laserific could crank on these clear plastic inlanes. He has the proper laser cutter, no handwork. Whatever thickness required acrylic or PETG, within reason. I did not realize they were so problematic. He did "one shots" for me on other games, which protectors will never exist.

#802 3 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

I'm assuming the original EBD and EBD LE playfields are identical and interchangeable.
Is this correct? Thanks.

You need to measure the playfield widths closely.
From my memory, EBD LE is a hair narrower just like Centaur II.
EBD and EBD "Classic" are the same width.

#804 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

What pitch do you have your games set at? Mine is cleared so playing faster. I'm getting many more outlane drains AFTER the clear, so I'm playing with table pitch.
Sling posts are set to the top spot.

My game was set at in insane angle of 10 degrees (full height 3" casters and a 2×4) and I use a Powerball as well. I call it EBD "Rapid Fire", and surprise people.

Most experienced players choose between 5-6 degrees a little lower than modern games. Anything less than 4 degrees and the game plays like a woodrail.

#812 3 years ago

Check the pop bumper spoon and switch for vibration activation first, before switch matrix. You may get a surprise.

Then check the switch matrix and diodes. ALL switches. Inspect wires closely at plumb bob. Temporarily disconnect the plumb bob and test. Then check the MPU and connectors. Then check ICs.

Stay the path, in this order, and the problem will reveal itself.

#824 3 years ago

¿Talvez algun día puedas enseñarme?

There were several clones and conversion kits of EBD copied in the 1980s other than "Pinball Pool" (Bell, Italy).
I own one of these backglasses.

"Cowboy Eight Ball" and "Cowboy Eight Ball 2" (LTD, Brazil)
Here is a recent video:


This actually has BETTER sounds.
Main tune is kinda catchy.

"Sure Shot" (Taito, Brazil) which was Cowboy Pool with a different backglass, player scoring numeric segments, and sounds.

There were two others as well, but I cannot remember off of my head.
Basically, copyright infringement was nearly impossible to enforce at that time in foreign countries, and Bally did not really care as these machines were almost always sold as conversion kits, low production, and were never competitors in the market anyway.

Both machines above were part of the forefather time of more modern Taito gaming in arcades most people recognize in the mid 1980s.
These two companies were actually "one in the same" but independent for marketing reasons.

The original Eight Ball had 4 clones from foreign manufacturers as well, some of the kits looked like a$$.

#826 3 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Wow, huge difference in music

There actually is ANOTHER sound rom set board for this game as well.
The same owner posted in his other video.

"¡El juego fue asombrosa!", right?
They are actually speaking a touch of dialectal Portuguese in the video, but most of it is Latin/SA Spanish.
I am not entirely sure where the videos were recorded.
There are very few of these games left in the world, particularly due to environmental climate.

1 month later
#843 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Couple of questions guys. Anybody powder-coated their legs? Approximate cost? If not powder-coat, does the old standy-by Rustoleum do a decent job? Tnx as always..

No.
The factory legs were already the proper color and finish.
Grey enamel finish (non-hammer coat) in a can if you must.
You can still source buying them, but I not have looked in some time.

2 weeks later
#859 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Any tips on polishing up the coin door? Our EBD door has a few light scratches but that's about it. Will a cotton buffing wheel on the workbench grinder do the trick? Which polishing compounds seem to work the best? Tnx as always...

Flitz, sheep wool buffing wheel on a cordless drill, and cotton terry towel to finish the job, if you want a high shine.
Same goes for ball shooter frame, coin door frame, lockbar, etc.

Cleaning sponge wheel on a drill if there is lot of work to start off with overall. Polishing with another terry towel first will give you a solid base shine.

This is not going to give you a "chrome" shine, but a "factory fresh" shine.

If you do not want to take the entire door apart you can do it in stages.

07f7d746697dd060d248e667ad6fbdbee645e6a8.jpg

#861 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Tnx TBK. Looks like there are several Flitz products available. To which are you referring?

shopping (resized).jpg

#863 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Tnx as always TBK. WAY COOL 8-ball plunger knob. Gotta have one. Where did you come by that gem?

I bought the shooter rod on Ebay before the creator/seller DOUBLED his price.
It used to be $20.
He sells the best one on the market as the ball is the right plunger size and the number is offset vertically on the shaft so you can always see the number when you walk up to the machine.

You could make your own with tools and drill press with a mini pool ball set and a regular ball shooter rod modified with industrial epoxy.

http://ebay.to/2dMoKXI

s-l1600 (resized).jpg

#868 3 years ago

Archived after 5 days
758 views
Not sold: Decided to keep game
Machine - For Trade
Fully restored (full original status) “I am offering my Eight Ball Deluxe "Classic" pinball machine (Bally Midway, 1984) brass plaque #527 that I built from spare parts and five EBD "Classic" machines in 2004 for TRADE ...”
2016-11-04
Vancouver, WA
Trade

#871 3 years ago
Quoted from eh97ac:

Can an LE be convert back to an original? I figure a backbox, lamp panel and BG are needed but is the wiring harness compatible?

Yes, it can converted.
However, as you suspected the wire harnesses DO NOT match in wire color coding.
You will need to understanstand the schematics of both putting both manuals side by side, and observing the differences.

#873 3 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

That would be interesting. In doing research for building wire harnesses I compared the harnesses for all of the -17 games and most of the -35 games. With very few exceptions, they are all identical. Bally, like everyone else I suspect, kept it as simple as possible so that they would not need to retrain employees.

I only said this because people can make assumptions that things are interchangeable, which many times they are not.
This includes changes during a production run, which is a real kick in the pants.
Most ARE very similar (1977-1984), but I tell people to never take it for granted.
Manuals do not always match the actual game either with wire colors which really is a real PITA.
Sometimes they are misprints, other times they were outright wrong.

When I built my EBD "Classic" for example using a EBD "third run" parts (including a EBDC proper playfield with most of the original harness), the wire harnesses colors did not match to the either the original,LE, or Bally-Midway insert manual (and the harness was not hacked), and I had to physically cross check every single connection to make sure I was not putting "juice" into things that would cause other things to blow up.
The harness most closely resembled the original game.
Even the cabinet wiring was different although it was the right cabinet for the exact game which made me pause initially and scratch my head.

The wire colors themselves used in the game were the same, which made things a bit challenging.
"It is a GI, high power solenoid wire, or switch wire"?
Not good if you make mistakes when pinning connectors and manual says it something it is not.

Check everything!

#878 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

The cabinet front on our EBD has taken its share of abuse over the years w/ assorted holes (drilled for ? reason), dings and gouges. Have removed hardware, filled divots and sanded. Now looking to repaint and could use some direction. Spray vs brush? Paint that closely matches the EBD black? Tnx as always..

Preference is always spray due to even coating and no brush marks.
You can make a "window" to spray the front with painters tape and plastic sheets fairly easily with some scrap wood.
If you are only painting very small areas, the best way to avoid brush marks is to use a SPONGE FOAM BRUSH.
You can get multiple sizes in large packs for less than $9, and there is no cleaning, you just throw them away as you use them.
You can even trim them to your specific size needs.
Everybody restoring should have a pack lying around for quick touch ups.

It would easier if you posted a photo of the sides and front of your machine.
The problem is fading.
Even blacks fade over time.
The original paints were high luster satin at the factory, not high gloss.
I cannot give a suggest offhand if you are trying to "blend" in comparison to remaining black on front with the cabinet sides on your machine.
Are you planning to restencil?

For example, my machine is a "classic" and used decals.
I had to go with a semi gloss to match the sides and make the whole thing look right.

If you want direct factory equivalent colors contact "Pinball Pimp".
He should be willing to at least provide the colors without cost.
http://pinballpimpstencils.com/

Your baseline color and cabinet preparation instructions are here (PDF format):
http://pinballpimpstencils.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Pinball%20Pimp%20Cabinet%20Stencil%20Instructions%20v2016.pdf

#881 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Here's the EBD front before some TLC. A number of scrapes, gouges, random holes etc. Fully striped down now and took the opportunity to shine up the coin door and surrounding trim. The black here certainly does not look factory and is sort of a flat - semigloss. The side graphics have plenty of black that look more glossy. Will look at both the semi and full gloss enamels then. Tnx again for the much valued help..

Since this is a EBD "Classic" (1984), I would go with either a semi-gloss or high-gloss dependent on the condition of your decals.
Original decals black was really shiny in comparison to the other game versions.

This will touch up fast.
Jack the game up, take off the front legs, remove the final door mount piece, mask the rest of the front of the cabinet (T molding), screen off the sides from excess paint spray, and hit it with the enamel spray of choice.
Two coats should do the trick.

#883 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

That said, the T molding on the front of my machine has obviously fended off a number of traumas. Is that material hard to come by, remove, replace?? Tnx again as always...

T-molding is cheap, but there is a couple of catches on this one.

First you have to find a source for the "ridged roughened T-molding" as this is a bit more uncommon that most of the arcade games of the period. Most common extruded T-molding is flat smooth. I have not even looked for this type for quite a while. I did have to replace the backbox T-molding on my game due to some operator gouging which I ended up special ordering, but I did this back in 2004 when I originally built the game.

Second, and most important, is the overall condition of your cabinet.
Since the T-molding is partially glued and the cabinet is made from 32+ year old fiber particle board, you may end up damaging your cabinet trying to remove the T-molding out of the machine. It is pretty easy to crack this type of cabinet even after loosening the glue, especially if the particle board is bone dry. Be careful if you decide to go this route. If the T-molding is in good shape, I would leave it alone.

1 week later
#889 3 years ago

This is a *very close* yellow for the cabinet. It is a Decocolor OIL, and it controls very well in application into the decaled surfaced with excellent adhesion and no smearing, runs, or air pocketing. Decal surface must clean with no residue, and decontaminated with denatured alcohol with no excessive rubbing.

The black and white are the complementary matches. White is harder to apply.

If you use this oil paint pen properly, it leaves no "lines" or "brush marks". It may require additionally costs for overlap, but layers must be completely dry.

The paint will still require clear coat overcoat for finishing and protection, preferably sprayed.

You will need 2-3 pens per cabinet side, unless the cabinet is several faded which then will at least double the amount.

I may have some old photos of the completed cabinet before I started full color on my machine, PM of needed. It looked "factory fresh" with black, white, and yellow.

330005---2016_04_22IMG_04052.jpg

#891 3 years ago

As I stated it's a *very close* yellow.
It's hard to use a pen picture for comparison for pigmentation.

Look at "L-U-X-E" lettering during The repaint (deco yellow), not the rest that was being darkened with antique gold.
Two yellowcoats were required to give it the proper full yellow.

The first photo was taken after the full color repaint (factory colors), during the overpaint. The white in the 8 Ball has already been changed to pure white, but the rest remained factory off white.
The second was the finished product.

In the final photo only the the outer edging on all the letters and part if the railing is the slightly brighter factory yellow using Decocolor.

There are plenty of different techniques you use to match up colors. The hardest part is making both sides look completely identical.

13bf781d42857256e8f64e571216eab0f1d96e5e (resized).jpg
05eb9747d7deed272bde778ddb32763fa8961af2 (resized).jpg

#896 3 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Used a Rustoleum semi-gloss black for the front and it looks good. Unfortunately, seems to scratch VERY easily. Assuming that a clear coat will help protect here. Got a can of Triple Thick hanging around. Would work here?

Rustoleum Clear Enamel.
Matte or Gloss are two good options.

61502088-2667-4722-b44f-aca4807b1f88_400 (resized).jpg

#900 3 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

Finally got my EBD up and runnng, playable and into the game room after sitting in the garage for almost a year!
Anyone with good suggestions on adding LEDs? Brand, colors, etc

If you want to see a comparison night shot with no LEDs.
No color washout.

d28b3392c29e4c1560053056ef0d29172db3affd (resized).jpg

#902 3 years ago
Quoted from Teddy:

My first post on Pinside.com!
I finally started to restore my EBD over the summer. I spent whatever time I could between work, family, vacations, etc. taking a million pictures of the game and ripping every component off the playfield. I had a Bally NOS playfield that I bought about 15 years ago and ordered the cabinet stencils from Pinball Pimp. All of the hardware went into the polisher, I rebuilt the flippers and replaced the coils as well. We've had some nice warm days here in Maryland so before it gets too cold to paint in the garage, I devoted some time to prepping the cabinet. I started with 80 grit, then 120 and finished with 220 and gave the cabinet 4 coats with 220 in between. Here are pictures of my progress so far...
I need to give the first stencil color time cure before I lay down the next color. Even with all of the photos that I took, the playfield is still a bit of a jigsaw puzzle to put back together. Thanks to all that have gone before me and offered their insight on Pinside; It makes the job a lot easier!

Keep up the great work.

#914 3 years ago
Quoted from ronsplooter:

Has anyone done anything with custom music on their EBD?

Yes, LTD over 35+ years ago.

1 month later
#945 3 years ago
Quoted from dragdaily12:

Started making the custom wood apron.

I want to see a unique special backglass in this machine.
It would top off this restoration in wood grain.
I always applaud creativity when done in good taste.

1 week later
#959 2 years ago

The guides are in the reproduction set, or you can template and get them cut by a laser locally in lexan/PETG. Best to make it worth the effort and do some other protectors at the same time. Usually $40-50/hour.

1 week later
#1006 2 years ago
Quoted from MMP:

I'm curious, how did you and others deal with the metal pieces attached to the clear plastics on the repro set?

Read this guide and watch the video, it was made to help new restorers.

http://www.classicplayfields.com/f2khelp.html

1 week later
#1031 2 years ago
Quoted from Shannyman:

Got a question. I have a 1981 Ebd. I bought a overlay from classic arcades. The problem is the 15 ball has a brown stripe. Did the 1984 or the le have a brown stripe on the 15 ball. I just don't want to tear down playfield to find this overlay won't fit. Thx for info.

All factory EBD playfields are the same, including the 1984 version.
All 15 balls have a red stripe, however the reason it should look darker it is "dither patterned" with black dots.
The 11 ball is solid stripe red, the 15 ball pattern shaded stripe red.
It most definitely is not brown, or even reddish brown.

If the overlay has a 15 ball brown stripe, it was printed incorrectly, because it is not an ink screen process, it was digitally printed and the color and image changed to make the process simpler and cheaper.

I cannot speak for every single reproduction playfield that has been made since the 1990s including IPB and CPR, only the originals.
Reproduction playfields started out WAY back in the 1990s with limited runs.
I do not recall when people started making overlays for this game, as there were several manufacturers.

Classic Arcades is known for color and quality inaccuracies on their products, many "purists" will not buy his products and use other sources, or have the parts made themselves.

Attached is a photo extract from my 33 year old EBD "Classic" 1984 playfield.
This one was D1M.
The dot "dither pattern" on the 15 ball does not easily show up in any photo, because the dots are small to trick the naked eye into seeing a darker color and the lighting that is used to take a photo.

EBD ball photos (resized).jpg

#1033 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBellMan:

Yep. Email is the best way to order from them. It's true they don't have great web based buying, but if you can get past that, they have great service, products and prices.
Pinball Resource is good people!
Good luck!

Yes, Steve Young is undeniably a critical resource for parts (which makes me wonder what will happen when he is gone to be able to get all those EM parts), but here is a word of advice for new enthusiasts that have not used him or have an established account:

Don't "shuck and jive" him and absolutely positively do not waste his time.
Be direct with your order, know what you want to buy (know the part#), and pay promptly.
Anything less will just piss him off, and liable to get you blacklisted or ignored.

Granted, he will probably allow one mistake, but never two.

#1038 2 years ago

Part of the upcoming Episode 3 - Eight Ball Deluxe "Classic" (Bally, 1984), History-Features-Gameplay Tutorial Review on Youtube.

EBD Scoring Visual Guide.jpg

#1041 2 years ago
Quoted from Bohdi:

Got a question or 2 on installing drop targets.

Most full restorations, the complete assemblies are dropped out of the playfield and a new set of MOLEX plugs is added.
It is whole lot easier to work on the assemblies on your bench, upside down, in better light, and parts not falling into the cabinet.
Even if you are a "purist".
It also lets you clean the ENTIRE assemblies properly, and let you test the functionality manually with the targets on their side.

1 week later
#1066 2 years ago

Episode 3 - Eight Ball Deluxe (Bally-Midway, 1984) Tutorial Review

History-Features-Gameplay Tutorial of this undeniably outstanding and infamous Bally designed pinball machine. The final game production run, Eight Ball Deluxe 1984 'Classic' edition, is reviewed in great depth of detail.

"Quit talking, and start chalking!"

Episode 3 BONUS - Eight Ball Deluxe (Bally-Midway, 1984)

The EXTENDED history review of Eight Ball Deluxe "Classic" Edition detailed from Episode 3.
Two parts, primary production differences between the 1984 "Classic" edition and the 1981 original game and my personal game comparison/history/details to factory production games.

#1069 2 years ago

I always heard the third version being called as the "swinging door" model until less than 20 years ago. "Classic" edition sounds better.

I have never seen an unique flyer, but I would like to find one if it exists.
I saw it advertised using the the original flyer in the 80s by distributors.

3 weeks later
#1094 2 years ago

Although, I just read the postings, most likely the new 8 Ball target has a bad mold lip and insufficient depth causing edge slip. If you measure the catch edge with a electronic caliper, I am sure you will see a difference in dimensions. An incorrect height on the target can also cause this effect unrelated to the spring tension.

As mentioned you need a new target, the mold was incorrectly poured.

3 weeks later
#1140 2 years ago
Quoted from Hiram:

My shortfalls are going to be a backglass and a new play field.
I saw that Bay Area just sold out of the backglass.

Shay Group produced a run of the original 1981 EBD backglasses that were released in DEC 2016.

Check to see if there are still some left in stock.
They were not posted on the website during updates or well advertised when he finished GTB Spiderman at the same time.

3 months later
#1314 2 years ago
Quoted from Bohdi:

There are more differences but those are the obvious ones.

I noted about 30 differences I noted so far between the 81 and 84 versions. Many are showcased in my video tutorial review. 82 LE has a different set of differences.

The only thing people need to remember is the "swinging door" backbox to identify the 84, although I have actually seen some mix 'n match games (84 backbox on an 81 lowercabinet) over the years based on parts not just on improper painting with stencils or a few poor quality decals made in the 90s.

Every game version has a different wire harness configuration. Owners need to remember this when restoring this title.

#1319 2 years ago
Quoted from sudsy7:

Unless I missed it, this time I didn't even see a CPR post announcing that the EBD playfields were shipping. I was just curious why inks were used that would cause these "effects" for lack of a better word. Seems it could have been avoided by just using an opaque ink of the same color instead of semi-transparent. I agree with you though that they are beautiful playfields nevertheless.

You might want to subscribe to their monthly newsletter that just got started.
Stu, Kevin, and "crew" are starting to pump out serious backglasses.

SoF mirrored conversion just hit the streets in the last two days.
BK2K was less than two weeks ago.
Skateball less than a month ago.

More playfields are are to follow for other titles.
This includes dropping that pre-order email immediately when posted as open, if you really want something and are completely serious.
The EBD list closed as full in less than 6 hours.
Potential buyers just need to be cautious and understand potential "blacklisting" if they renege repeatedly on pre-orders.

#1335 2 years ago
Quoted from KevinCPR:

Oh, and just to SHOW what happens when you add base (white) to a pure tint based ink mix... illustrated below.

Moderators I recommend tagging these key series of posts this regarding playfield construction and process of ink screening for education.

It might help dispel against future misunderstandings.
This has the potential for owners to have another "playfields don't dimple" approach, if owners are unhappy.
I will send a PM.

I look forward to receiving my EBD PF in the next couple of days.
Although I will most likely in this case, provide it to a previous requested owner who needs it.

#1347 2 years ago

Classic Playfield Reproductions (CPR) did a good job after evaluation with their latest rerun of Eight Ball Deluxe playfields using the Fabulous Fantasies design films. This is despite some of the small color anomalies with "freckles" (as I have always called them) through the ink screening pantone layers.

CPR EBD PF.jpg

#1351 2 years ago

The Bally reference part number #ASE-2836-2 for mini-posts, however as has been done in the past, you have to count the total number of 1 1/16 and 1 3/16 inch posts used in the game, which I cannot remember off hand, but I guarantee has been done many times.
I am sure another will chime in if they desire.
They are easy to identify on inspection otherwise.

Something that was not mentioned in the question was the version of the game for the playfield swap.

All '81 and '82 versions used "finned" or "ringed" mini-posts, many times there blue color turned to red (or pink) due to dyes that absorbed UV light badly, so some did not realize the original color. Xenon was the worst offender in terms of titles. I have seen several that did use red posts from the factory, which was a complete oddity on what was on hand at the time at the time of production.
The '84 version actually quite a few with "star" or "jeweled" mini-posts used from Bally-Midway, but I also saw a few that had "finned" posts as well from the factory dependent on when the playfields were constructed, but transferred to the "classic" production run.
That is why some '84 games actually shipped with the prototype white pop bumper caps, based on overrun of the playfields, but the final wire harnesses are different, as well as the '82.

Most "purists" prefer the "finned" mini-posts which are more expensive, usually in the color blue.

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