(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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Post #1324 Explanation of paints used for screen printing Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)

Post #1325 What happens when white is used as a base in paint Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)

Post #1331 Double screening on playfields Posted by KevinCPR (2 years ago)


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#1813 1 year ago

Wondering if anyone could help me with a playfield light issue on my EBD Classic? A couple of weeks ago, an issue started with the billiard ball lights on the playfield. In Player 1 mode, as balls 1 thru 7 start to light up as a result of targets dropping, balls 8-15 start lighting up dimly and progressively get brighter (when 8-15 should be all off). Conversely in Player 2 mode, as balls 8-15 light up as a result of targets dropping, balls 1-7 start lighting up dimly and progressively get brighter (when 1-7 should be all off).

In addition to this occurring during gameplay, a very similar thing occurs when the playfield lights are in attract mode in-between games. Here's a short video to see exactly what I’m talking about:

I’ve tried re-seating all of the connectors on the Alltek LED light board in the back box. I visually inspected the wires to the LEDs and I don’t see anything loose or in need of re-soldering. Any suggestions to point me in the right direction? Thank you!

#1816 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I would try putting the incandescent lamps back in and see if anything changes. Also contact Alltek support and explain the issue. They are usually quick on the reply. Is jumper installed from alltek to switched lamp bus as per alltek instructions? Verify switched lamp voltage is in spec.

Quoted from gorgar007:

Alltek board requires the extra jumper wire to connect directly to a controlled lamp. Did that get disconnected?
Without the jumper wire installed the controlled lamps definitely behave strangely.

Thanx, guys. I put back in the incandescents, no change. I confirmed that the jumper wire from TP13 on the Alltek board is still attached to the control lamp on the back box. I've got a VM, but I'm a newbie at pinball ownership and am not sure where to check voltages or what the values should be. Can you point me in the right directly for that?

The Aux Lamp Driver Board in my EBD is still the original Bally one - should that be updated to the Alltek LED/Lamp Driver board as well? The configuration I have now did work flawlessly for about 3 months till I hit this issue.

Thanx again!

1 month later
#1841 1 year ago

I'm really hoping someone can help me with a playfield light issue I'm having....

I converted a 1984 Bally Eight Ball Deluxe "Classic" pinball machine from standard lamps to LEDs using a new Alltek Lamp Driver board. Everything worked fine for about 4 months. Now, when a certain number of lights illuminate in the "rack" on the playfield (the Middle Playfield Light Distribution board), the remaining lights (which should be off) dimly illuminate.

See the video I posted on YouTube which illustrates the exact problem and includes photos of all the PCBs in the pin:

I've tried:
- Replacing the 4-month old Alltek Lamp Driver board with a new one (TP13 is installed/attached to control lamp)
- Replacing the original Bally Aux Lamp Driver board with a new Alltek (tried with TP3 both attached to and detached from control lamp)
- Replacing the original Bally Power Rectifier board with a new Gulf Pinball board
- Cleaning the traces and solder joints on the original Bally Middle Playfield Light Distribution board.

What I haven't done:
- Replace the original Bally Middle Playfield Light Distribution board (I don't have one / can’t find one)
- Re-pin any Molex connectors. On the surface, it doesn't seem necessary as the behavior is acting like a "crosstalk" power issue affecting multiple (all) lights on the Middle Playfield Light Distro board
- Replace any LEDs (for the same reason as above)
- Re-solder any connectors (for the same reason as above)

Have any of you guys seen anything like this before?

Thank you in advance for any help/guidance you can provide!

1 week later
#1848 1 year ago

Can anyone tell me if there are supposed to be two pieces (upper and lower) to the Left and Right Ball Guide Assemblies? I just noticed my EBD has only the one metal one and some plastic replacement kits I've seen come with clear plastic ones. Can't find a clear picture of this area of the playfield on the internet, but some I've seen looks like it has both the clear plastic (on bottom) and the metal (on top) separated by posts. If that's the way it's supposed to be, does anyone know where to get the proper posts? I have the clear plastic pieces on the way to me - meanwhile this is what my EBD looks like in its present Left and Right Ball Guide configuration. And yes I'll be replacing the rubbers soon and the playfield could use a good cleaning as well:

IMG_5565 (resized).jpgIMG_5566 (resized).jpg
#1851 1 year ago
Quoted from BigLebowski:

there should be a plastic guide underneath the metal guide using the same bell posts

Quoted from chalkup8:

Correct,it keeps the ball from touching and running down the metal ball guide piece.

Thanx, guys. So I can just use the existing posts and stack the metal piece on top of the plastic piece? I don't suppose you could snap a pic of what the proper finished assembly looks like? I should have the plastic pieces in hand by Wednesday.

#1853 1 year ago

Thank you, Shawn. That helps very much....so much so that it confirms that I think I'm still missing some pieces besides the plastic. I appear to have only that top part of the post/standoff from the screw head down to the top of the plastic piece. I need to find, somehow, the post/standoff from the underside of the plastic to the playfield. So far I've come up short with Marco's, and my EBD OPS manual doesn't call out the post/standoff pieces with part numbers. I'll search some more today.....thanx again.

#1855 1 year ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

You are not going to find it because the "topcoat" post you are looking for is part of the plastic!

Aha! I guess I'll find out Wednesday - I ordered the complete EBD plastics set from CPR last week. It's hard to tell from CPR's pictures if the post is there on the underside....I hope sure it is. Thank you!

ebdplastics (resized).jpg
#1858 1 year ago

Thanx - that's kinda what I feared/figured. Bally must've used that ball guide design on other pins of the same era which should hopefully widen up the search. I'll keep looking!!

1 month later
2 months later
#1886 1 year ago
Quoted from tenjuna:

I must have pleased the pinball gods, as I scored a 1981 EBD for $300 over the weekend. Definitely in player's condition, will need a new playfield at some point, but otherwise in fair condition. I figured it needed a new rectifier board, but in an even greater stroke of luck it was literally a fuse. Plays perfectly fine.
Will be doing a mild restore on it besides the playfield which will need replaced or maybe CPR will do a reprint on it when they get that service going.

Congrats on that find! I hope the pinball gods are as kind to me someday - I'm keeping my eyes peeled for similar scores in the Denver area but everything lately seems to be overpriced DMDs.

#1888 12 months ago

Looking for some guidance on how to address this minor problem. About 2 times out of 10 on average, the outhole kicker can't get the ball to the trough - the ball falls back to the kicker and it's retried (see video below - kicks #6 and #8 fail). The only time it really aggravates me is when it does it several times in a row, which has happened a few times.

Are there any adjustments that can be made? Replace the coil? Thanx for any input!

#1891 12 months ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Had that exact issue on my Flash Gordon. It took quite a while to find. I originally thought it was the kicker head hitting the ball off center which I have had before. Then I replaced the coil sleeve assuming it was just too slow. In this case it was the drain switch wireform, it would not go down enough not to lift the ball slightly. It has a lower limit and if incorrectly set it can hold the ball up a bit. If the ball sat in the "U" shape at the bottom of the channel waiting to be kicked and got over the wireform it would push out of the way to the left (when looking from behind), let the ball sit down properly and get kicked correctly. If it entered just so, the ball could lean on the uphill side of the "U" and on the wire form holding the ball up just a bit. The ball would then be slightly to the left when watching from behind waiting to see it get kicked. The ball movement had enough wobble to not make it over the hill. On my FG, it would occasionally misfire, then sometimes have to try 5 times in a row before it succeeded.

Thanx for that....I'll take a closer look when I'm home from work tonight!

#1892 12 months ago
Quoted from g94:

I had some clear plastic protector sets cut out with the laser from 2mm thick acrylate.
There was some free space on the plate and I filled it up with a few sets of clear inlane guides for Eight Ball Deluxe. They are an exact copy of the original clear plastics that were in my game. Here's how the new set looks once installed:
[quoted image][quoted image]
In case somebody is interested in a set (of 2 guides), then send me a PM with your address.
For good understanding: I'm not setting up a business, just trying to help people with yellowed or broken plastics. I only have a limited amount of sets. I'm charging 8€, worldwide shipping included (in an enveloppe). This is a photo of a new set (obviously here with blue protective film still on, the actual plastics are crystal clear of course...).
[quoted image]

Wow...your playfield, side boards, apron, etc. look super vibrant and pristine. Care to share some additional hi-rez pix of your entire machine? Part of me would love to see it, another part of me not so much as it'll make me feel bad about my own EBD.

#1894 12 months ago
Quoted from g94:

Well thank you sir! Here it is:
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I restored my EBD about a year ago. It took me about 200 hrs if I recall well. Here is the restoration thread.

Absolutely gorgeous. And thank you for your restoration thread - the attention to detail in both your machine and documentation is outstanding. And, as I feared, I'm now feeling inadequate about my EBD.

#1895 12 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Looking for some guidance on how to address this minor problem. About 2 times out of 10 on average, the outhole kicker can't get the ball to the trough - the ball falls back to the kicker and it's retried (see video below - kicks #6 and #8 fail). The only time it really aggravates me is when it does it several times in a row, which has happened a few times.

Are there any adjustments that can be made? Replace the coil? Thanx for any input!

Issue resolved (or worst case, made a lot more reliable)! Upon closer examination of the kicker assembly, I noticed the little plastic shroud around the coil mounting backet post was a bit loose/wobbly. Because of this, the kicker arm would rest back closer to that post. When that happens, the part of the kicker that touches the ball would not be square with ball and instead be off to the side a bit (a bit like bjm-maxx described). I'm thinking this is what might be causing the occasional "misfire" on my machine.

I took the cotter pin off the post and removed the plastic shroud. I then cut down and wrapped some electrical tape around the post, then forced the plastic shroud back down over the taped post so it's nice and tight and reinserted the cotter pin. It's solid now....no movement on the post. And this forces the kicker to be square up on the ball.

Before applying this bit of jury-rigging, the kicker would fail to launch the ball into the shooter lane about 2 times out of 10 on average. After, it's worked 50 for 50 so far. Time will tell how solid this is, but I'm pretty happy for now. Unexpected side benefit - the kicker action actually seems a lot quieter now.

Kicker.jpg
3 months later
#1957 8 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Interestingly, the left post had two other holes drilled (it was set in the middle position), but the right post had no additional holes.

Weird that right sling doesn't have all three holes. Mine does (1984 version) - here's the diagram if it helps anyone. Also, the manual has the recommended scoring options based on the same post settings (Conservative / Medium / Liberal).
EBD '84 Panel Parts.jpg

#1962 8 months ago
Quoted from Calipindave:

Hey guys. Joined the club yesterday with a project machine. I’m so excited to get started. Brought home a good example of an early production game with white caps. Playfield is a bit worn but not horrible. Backglass has some peeling paint. The game is completely disassembled. The cabinet is empty except the powered board and transformer. It came with a bin full of parts. Looks like everything is there. More importantly the package included a new CPR Playfield and shay backglass. Cabinet and head are decent. At some point will likely strip and paint them but the initial phase will be to clean everything up and restore all the guts, swap the Playfield , get it running and then play the hell out of it for a while. Thanks pinsider Cheddar for everything!
A few pics. You can see the side of the head where someone added some cream paint over the original. A little ME and alcohol pulls that up without disturbing the paint underneath.
Dave
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Welcome to the club! Have you thought about starting a new thread and documenting your rebuild/restoration process? I know a lot of folks (myself included) love watching other people's work. Great for learning and getting new ideas.

#1964 8 months ago
Quoted from Calipindave:

Thank thank you Mathazar. I thought about it but I was thinking there are plenty of similar threads and I’m just a home hobbyist average guy. I would like to do a thread so maybe your encouragement we’ll get me to do it.
Dave

I'm just a home hobbyist as well....been a player for 40+ years, but didn't buy my first pin until this time last year (EBD). A few months later, I bought a NIB Star Trek Pro Vault. The next month, I bought a Black Knight. Over the summer, I started doing my own maintenance on the old solid states (I have an electronics background early in my career) and I got enough courage to buy not one project Mata Hari last month, but two. Neither worked and picked them up for a few hundred each. Goal is to restore one for keeps and get the other to a working player's condition and flip. I'm by far no pro, but I'm starting to document my journey on the keeper Mata Hari - will be putting up a dedicated thread on that soon. I'm going to get it working 100% first (almost there), then do a topside tear down for a hard top install, and then put it all back with new plastics and a tasteful LED conversion. After I play with that for a while, I'm going to tear everything out again and get it down to a naked cabinet and backbox and have a local guy repair the wood and repaint (that's out of my comfort zone). While the cabinet is out for paint, I'll tumble the smaller steel pieces for a nice shine and try to revive the bigger pieces by hand. Then it's re-assembly and hopefully a permanent place in my game room lineup.

Good luck with reviving your EBD, Dave!

Kris

#1972 8 months ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Anybody have problems with saucer shots sometimes skipping over and past the saucer? It is aggravating especially when lit for big points or special. It’s an NOS pf and new plastics all from many years ago. I’ve tried pushing the outer clear guide plastic as far inward as it can go while tightening it down which seemed to improve it but still happens sometimes. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Yes - this happens to me on mine as well and quite often...probably 5 or 6 times out of 10. I remember having the same issue as a kid in the arcade back in the 80's, so I just figured it's a tough skill shot on this game. On the bright side...the saucer hole is in nice shape, not beat up at all.

#1979 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Ughhh. I just got done switching over the playfield lighting (and under the playfield) to LEDs, and some of them are flickering, even though they're supposed to be non-ghosting.
Also, the right target bank is not popping up at all. I don't think I bumped anything but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Are you running the original Bally lamp board? If so, your LEDs will flicker (including non-ghosting). You need an Alltek lamp board (https://www.allteksystems.com/alltek-products-led-lamp-board.html), or Flicker Eliminator Adapter (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/MB-07-010) or put resistors on each control lamp socket one by one.

#1981 7 months ago

Holy crap - this shop wants $6K for an EBD LE!

ebay.com link » Eight Ball Deluxe By Bally Limited Edition Original Pinball Machine 1982

How hard is it to put the correct drop targets in when trying to collect $6K? And there are 15 Watchers....I'm hoping they're watching to see which fool drops $6K on at best a $2500 example.

#1985 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

They seem fine. I'm wondering if I knocked a wire loose somewhere when I was installing the LEDs.

I would pull the fuses out and check with a DMM to be sure - only takes a few seconds. I've been bitten a couple of times by visual inspection and learned my lesson the hard way. Spent an hour or more looking for problems elsewhere after looking at a fuse and thinking it's ok only to find that it's actually open/blown after pulling it out and putting a DMM on it.

#1987 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Ok, this is weird. Although the 7-drop-target bank doesn't reset (pop back up) at the start of the game, or for a second player, it does pop up when doing the solenoid diagnostic test. That implies there is power to the assembly, but why isn't it popping up as it should during the game?

While in game mode, drop each target with your finger. Does each target score?

1 week later
#1998 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

I have a strange problem with the 2x and 4x multiplier on my EBD (1984 version).
When I hit the 2x, sometimes the LED under the playfield briefly lights the green 4x before switching to the 2x LED. Other times it lights up the 4x and doesn't switch to the 2x indicator. If I actually get to the point of hitting the 4x target, the LED doesn't advance to that (it stays on 3x), and no sound indicates that any change occurred.
The wiring doesn't look like there is any problem, but if I trace the wires back to the board is there a way to know whether they are connected to the appropriate socket? Is there a diagram that shows where each wire (2x and 4x) should be connected?

See the red highlighted areas on the EBD Wiring Diagrams for the Playfield and Lamp Module below. Even if they look good visually, I'd recommend re-pinning them. The ones in the left most red box are the address lines and the ones on the right are the multiplier lights. And you can confirm that the wires are in the correct places on the connector by looking at what wire colors are in what pin location.
EBD Wire Color Code.jpgEBD Wiring Diagram.jpg

EBD Wiring Diagram (Lamp Module).jpg

#2019 7 months ago

Here are a few pix from my the underside of my EBD (upper left corner) - use the rollover as a frame of reference to match up with your pix.

Rollover 01.jpgRollover 02.jpgRollover 03.jpg
1 week later
#2022 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

First, the announcing of "3-ball" at power on means that the machine is set to 3 ball play (doesn't have anything to do with your 3-ball problem). If the machine was set to 5 ball play, it would announce "5-ball" at power on and so on.

Is this target issue you're having new behavior (did it ever work)? Was there any recent work done on the machine?

#2023 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Are there ANY other odd target or lamp behaviors, or is it ONLY the 1 and 3 combination and 9 and 11 combination?

#2030 7 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Refer to post #2000 previous page about the multiplier drop targets. To add to that, try closing the 2X target switch by hand and see if it does the same thing. If the game is scoring the 4X target, then the switch for 4 must be closing somehow, maybe contacts too close or problem with matrix. Not sure what you mean by schematic not matching, can you explain?

It's interesting that the 2x and 4x multiplier switches are on the same wire in the matrix as the 1-9 and 3-11 targets, respectively. Don't quite know what to make of that yet.

Switch Matrix (resized).jpg
#2035 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Where would this switch matrix be in the machine?

The switch matrix is "logical" in that the schematic represents how all of the switches are physically connected/wired, not necessarily where they reside on the machine itself.

I'll take a look at my EBD tonight to see if I can get any inspiration on next steps. I've stared at the switch matrix in the schematic for a while hoping some commonality would pop to me that explain all of the odd behavior. It's likely we're dealing with >1 issue.

Run thru the steps that lovef2k provided above for going thru the self test on switches and report back. That could help us with the next move(s).

#2037 7 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

when I look at the wiring under the playfield, I see that the 2x multiplier has a white/green wire coming from it.

Can you post a good clear picture of that wire connected to the 2x multiplier? Are you looking at the 2x switch (drop target) or 2x lamp? Do you have a DMM to confirm the start and end points of the wire are indeed the same wire? FWIW, the Alltek MPU board (and Alltek Lamp board if you have one of those in your system as well) is pin for pin compatible with all of the machines it supports, including EBD. The connectors (and keys for the connectors) all line up.

In the schematic above, references to connectors on "A4" are the connectors on the MPU board (for example "A4J2-8") whereas references to connectors on "A5" are the connectors on the Lamp board (for example, "A5J1-27").

#2043 6 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Here's the video showing the Multiplier problem. When the 2x is hit, it briefly lights the 4x lamp before switching to the 2x lamp (occasionally the 4x lamp stays on and doesn't switch to the 2x lamp). It scores as 4x though. Once the 3x is hit, the proper lamp lights up, but it still scores as 4x. When the 4x is hit, no sound is made, the 3x lamp stays lit, and scoring stays at 4x. When 5x is hit it does advance scoring to 5x and the proper lamp is lit.

Makes me wonder if the x4 drop target switch is shorted somehow. Would be interesting to "remove" it from the equation and then see if the preceding 2X and 3X drop targets then act/score correctly. Do you have a pin removal tool? As a test, you could remove the pin from the A4J2-10 connector on the MPU board, put the connector back on the MPU, and see if the behavior of the x2 and x3 drop targets gets better or has no affect.

Or instead of removing A4J2-10 from the connector, you could temporarily unsolder the White with Orange stripe wire from the 4x drop target switch and see how the x2 and x3 targets behave.

#2045 6 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

I don't have a pin removal tool, but would I be able to bend the pin 45 degrees to test without it and then bend it back, or are they more brittle than that?

Depending on how well/poorly it aged, it could be brittle. Do you have a soldering iron? It would take mere seconds to desolder the White with Orange stripe wire from the switch, then test, then another few seconds to solder the wire back.

#2055 6 months ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Are you saying to unplug this connection?
[quoted image]

Yes - pretty sure vec-tor is suggesting to eliminate the circuitry on the coin door (which is what is on the MPU J3 connector) for a test. If things start to behave, something on the coin door (slam switch, perhaps) is interfering. A few folks here have seen that before.

#2082 6 months ago

Looks green-ish in the photo with red decals....could be a Mata Hari apron.

#2083 6 months ago

I found and fixed this issue on my EBD this afternoon and thought I'd document it and share in case someone runs into something similar. I've had this EBD for a little more than a year now and tinkered around with it enough so that it has been extremely reliable for the last 9 or 10 months (including re-pinning most of the connectors into the backbox PCBs). It gets daily use and is one of my favorite machines.

This afternoon, we noticed some lights were out on the playfield. When the machine turns on, you can see all of the lights flash and sequence for a few seconds. Then, the X and the second E in DELUXE flicker and go out. When those go out, all of the lights in the left orbit lane go out and stay out as does the Special and 70K lights for the in-lane and all the white strobe lights except for the top ones. Plus the pop bumper lamps as well. Watch the short video for a visual.

Same lights don't turn on in the Lamp self test.

Since all of these happened at once, I did not suspect burned out bulbs or loose sockets or anything like that. There had to be something common between these lamps and whatever the issue was, it was somewhat intermittent as cycling power always got them to work for a few seconds, then the same lamps would go out again and stay out.

I eyeballed all the wires and sockets under the playfield that controlled the affected lamps. I wiggled wires, wiggled sockets, and pressed on connectors for the lamp boards underneath the playfield. I did find some poor wiring jobs from previous owners under the playfield that I did not like but I'll sort those out later as they likely don't have anything to do with this current issue.

I pulled out the schematics to see if there was anything electrically common between the affected lamps thinking maybe all of them were on the same connector or something and I could focus on that. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case - looking at A9 Aux Lamp board where all of these lights live, it was spread across 2 connectors (J2/J3). Still, it was possible there are multiple connectors with problems but it just seemed unlikely that this would all happen at once. As I stared at the schematic some more, a pattern jumped out at me that connected all of this together - the same sequence of lights that work and don't work appeared on each of the 4 decoder chips U2, U3, U4, and U5. See the diagram below - I put red hash marks next to the lamps that don't work. Notice there are 7 lamps for each decoder chip, and the sequence from top to bottom for each chip go 2 not working, 2 working, 2 not working, 1 working. This is an addressing problem! Looking at the binary bits for each of those 7 lamps on each of the 4 decoder chips:

000 (doesn't work)
001 (doesn't work)
010 (works)
011 (works)
100 (doesn't work)
101 (doesn't work)
110 (works)

Anything with "0" for bit 1 doesn't work. If a wire is open, it'll default to high (on or "1") which would explain why some lamps work and some don't, and it's the same lamp position on each of the 4 decoder chips.

Addressing is controlled by AD0, AD1, and AD2 (upper left corner of the diagram). AD1 is for Bit 1 addressing, and it may be open. AD1 is Pin 1 for the J1 connector on the A9 Aux Lamp Driver board. And it's one of the board connectors that I DID NOT re-pin last year when I got the machine. I pulled off the connector, pulled out the wire and pin, and sure enough the clip on the pin was brittle, oxidized, and bent. I re-pinned just that one pin and put it back...works like a champ now.

Family is getting a lot of use out of this machine during Spring Break this week, so I'm going to leave it as it is (working) for now and will plan on re-pinning the rest of the connectors soon.

While the above is documented for EBD, the basic principle can be applied to any SS game, Bally or other, and not just lamps (solenoids come to mind, like when you have seemingly random or out of sequence fires). It's just good practice to re-pin *everything* on these 30-40 year old machines, something I get reminded of often.
Aux Lamp Board (resized).jpg

1 week later
#2129 6 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

To make a Bally game have "free play" with the Alltek, the left dip switch setting must me turned on.
https://www.allteksystems.com/pdfs/dip_ver8.pdf

I've got Allteks in a couple of my Bally's, but I don't use the free play feature. Part of reliving the arcade days of my youth is to try to drive up the credits by winning free games during game play, kind of a "game outside of the game" approach to the fun. The wife thinks I'm silly since every game is free anyway, but there's such a satisfaction for me to making that knocker knock, especially getting the three-in-a-row knocker spelling out D-E-L-U-X-E on EBD or setting a new score on Mata Hari. Sometimes on Mata Hari I can get into a zone where dropping all of the targets scores a game, making the A-B loop scores a game every other loop, and hit one of the high game score thresholds all on one ball. The other night I got 9 free games on one ball and set a personal best high score for a total of 12 credits for the game. I felt like I was 13 again.

I'll set the maximum credits to 40, and then start off with 15 credits with the goal to try to run the credits up to 40 without getting to 0. I'll leave the Extra Ball and Free Game settings at factory defaults to be fair, set the first free game score to a setting just above what I usually average, and the other two free game scores to scores I don't achieve that often.

#2131 6 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Just to be clear, you can have free play enabled on the Alltek, and still set scoring thresholds to trigger the knocker. This is what I do.
I have thresholds at 1 Million, 2 Million and 3 Million, and set Specials to be a replay. This gives me the nice knocker feedback for doing well, but makes it so that there are always credits available (especially if my kids have friends over).

Gotcha - but I also like running up the number of credits based on pin play. Good to know about the knocker noise preservation, tho!

3 weeks later
#2157 5 months ago
Quoted from srose007:

Hi All,
Just bought a 1981 EBD and it has a weird issue with the playfield lamps/1-7 and 8-15 ball (horseshoe) drop targets:
First of all, while all the targets are all standing, the 2, 5 and 6 ball lights next to the targets are out, and down at the bottom above the flippers, it shows the 2, 6 and 13 balls lit. For the second player (shooting stripes), it shows the 9, 10, 13 and 15 balls out and down below, the 13 ball is lit.
When the horseshoe drop targets are hit, it does the following:
Target Top, Bottom
------- ---- --------
1 Stays lit, 9 lights up
2 Out already, 2 goes out (instead of lighting up)
3 Properly goes out, 3 properly lights up
4 Properly goes out, 4 properly lights up
5 Stays lit, 1 lights up
6 Stays out, 10 lights up, 6 goes out
7 Properly goes out, 3 properly lights up
The striped balls have similar issues.
Any ideas of what may be causing this? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'd prefer not to spend too much (if any) on a pinball repair specialist coming to the house.
Best to all, and start chalking!
Steve

First impression to me is a lamp matrix addressing issue. I'm assuming it's never worked for you since you just bought it....do you know the repair/upkeep history of the machine from the previous owner? First thing I'd do is re-pin the J4 connector on the Lamp driver board (which contains the four lamp matrix addressing wires). Prior to that, you could try pulling off the connector and re-seating it, and/or while the game is running try wiggling that connector and see if the behavior changes. If it does, that's your culprit. If it doesn't, I'd still repin that (and pretty much all) connectors on the nearly 40 year old machine. Re-pinned connectors often fix many squirrely issues.

#2170 5 months ago
Quoted from srose007:

All I can say mathazar and lovef2k is that YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES!!! I pulled off a couple of the connectors on the two lamp boards, simply plugged them back in, and VOILA, EVERYTHING WORKS AGAIN!!! Well, at least with the mapping of the horseshoe drop targets and the corresponding billiard ball lights. AMAZING! You didn't just make my day, you made my month!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you to Pinside as well.
OK, now that you're my go-to techs, I have a follow-up question for you:
A couple of the playfield lamps are still out and they remain out during the self-test. I would presume that they are simply bad sockets since I've tried replacing the bulbs multiple times and nothing happens. Should I clean the pins on the connectors that go into the lamp boards or leave well enough alone there? And if I need to have someone replace the sockets, do you have a recommended seller for those?
Take care,
Steve

Glad to hear you're making progress! There's nothing quite as satisfying as getting something that's not working on your pin working again with your own two hands.

For the lamps that are out, it could be any number of things (including the socket you mention):

1 - Bad bulb. I think you've eliminated this possibility.
2 - Bad socket. 35+ year old sockets indeed can give you fits and they're not very expensive. You can source them at Pinball Life as well as Marco's and most other online pinball parts suppliers. Before pinning your hopes on that solution, tho, I'd recommend a test if you've got any experience with a soldering iron. Swap a non-working lamp socket with a known working one under the playfield. If the original lamp location continues to not light and the swapped lamp location does light, the problem is not with the socket and you need to focus elsewhere. If the not-lighting socket continues to not light in its new location (and the swapped socket lights in the original location), you indeed have a bad socket and can be confident in buying a new one (they're only a few bucks each).
3 - Broken or corroded wires. This issue is VERY common on these 35+ years old machines as you've experienced by playing with connector insertions and getting some things to magically work again. I'd still recommend re-pinning all of the connectors.
4 - Bad SCRs (transistors) on the Lamp Driver Board. This is another common failure. There are procedures for determining which SCRs are bad if you have the ability to desolder the old bad ones off of the PCB and solder in new ones (SCRs are a couple bucks each). Alternatively, you can buy a new replacement Lamp Module Board from Alltek for about $120 or a refurbished original Bally for around $75.

There's another good troubleshooting step you can take for #3 and #4....for about $50, you can get a Lamp tester PCB from Pinitech. With this lamp board tester, you remove the cables from the lamp board and plug the test board directly into it. When you do the Lamp test from the coin door on the pinball, it will flash LEDs on the test board instead of the playfield. If any of the LEDs on the test board are stuck on or stuck off, the board will tell you exactly which SCR transistor is responsible for that lamp and you know what needs to be changed. You'd also know that the wiring isn't playing a part in the failure. Conversely, if all the test LEDs on the Lamp tester board are working with no problems, you've then confirmed that you've got wiring (connector) issues with the wire harness.

Isn't this fun?

Welcome to the hobby!

#2173 5 months ago
Quoted from srose007:

Well, I'm not the handiest guy around but willing to try soldering the sockets on and off it you think I won't ruin anything. Do I need a heat-sink or anything like that to make sure I don't screw things up? I don't remember too much from high school electric class, but remember the heat sink thing!
Thanks mathazar

Honestly, I can't tell you if you'd anything or not without knowing your skills. You can get some basic pinball soldering tips here....don't forget to be careful and not get solder blobs dropping into/onto other parts of the playfield underside:

1 week later
#2185 5 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Every early Bally playfield has those dimples next to the flipper tips. They are there to help you align the flipper bats. Do not fill them in..
See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/centaur-clubmembers-only/page/20#post-4965425

My EBD (1984 version) doesn't have those dimples. Neither does my Mata Hari (1977).

#2188 5 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Umm, did you forget that you installed a hardtop on your Mata Hari:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mata-hari-club-em-and-ss-all-are-welcome/page/8#post-4939789
And the photo of the sanded playfield before the hardtop install shows the dimples:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mata-hari-club-em-and-ss-all-are-welcome/page/7#post-4877169
Lets see some clear pictures of your EBD.

quench - that's just too funny....great memory you have. When I checked for dimples on the Mata Hari, I indeed went straight to the one that I put the new hardtop in! And I just checked my other Mata Hari project....there are indeed little dimples there as well.

I double checked the EBD...no dimbles. Here are some photos (Mata Hari w/ hardtop, Mata Hari no hardtop, and the 1984 EBD).

Flipper Dimple 01 (resized).jpgFlipper Dimple 03 (resized).jpgFlipper Dimple 02 (resized).jpg
#2191 5 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

You might be right on that one. However the left flipper dimple position is covered by the flipper rubber in that picture. Care to take another picture with you holding both flipper bats up?

Bats up....

Flipper Dimple 04.jpg
#2193 5 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Thanks. Looks like yours were weakly punched but the dimples are there: Have a look at your third left side flipper for a dimple too.
[quoted image]
If you look real close (zoom in), these two pics in the gallery have them in the same position:
https://images.pinside.com/c/59/c5922963d15d6c0f4b34ad0c58b2a527175a21de/resized/large/c5922963d15d6c0f4b34ad0c58b2a527175a21de.jpg
https://images.pinside.com/a/45/a45c29a5e608ebd6419b02a0a8448c816d42285e/resized/large/a45c29a5e608ebd6419b02a0a8448c816d42285e.jpeg

Nice eye, quench. I'll have to have a closer look at the third flipper when I'm home later tonight. Learn something new everyday here on pinside!

#2195 5 months ago
Quoted from AgentX:

Alright, pin sharks...got another bit of buggery goin on with my EBD. See linked video.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P7WDlrK8jOEBahQYpa_0J66ldYdLV3OD
All displays flicker and spasm whenever the game is in Game Over/Attract mode, but clear up almost completely after a game has been started. Any thoughts or suggestions? My initial thought is a gunky connector somewhere? Maybe once the game starts, more voltage pushes through, causing the problem to clear up?
Thanks in advance!
Kasey

Couple thoughts:
- If this were affecting only 1 or 2 displays, I'd say the problem was with the displays themselves and would be candidates to have the header pins reflowed with new solder. Still...if these are the original displays and that's never been done, that would be a good thing to do for all 5 displays anyway. And eliminate that as the potential culprit.

- Since this is happening on all 5 displays, my inclination is to look for something common between them and that would be the HV circuit on the SDB. If the SDB is original and has never had rework done on it, that means you've got 38 year old capacitors that had a maximum lifetime expectancy of about 15 years. Very common problem. I'd recommend having your SDB re-capped. If you're a do-it-yourselfer, lots of online places sell very affordable kits that come with all the caps, resistors, and parts you need.

#2197 5 months ago
Quoted from AgentX:

And, by SDB, are you saying Solenoid Driver Board?

Yes - exactly.

2 weeks later
#2205 4 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Member of the club, at least for now — not because I don’t love the game, but because I’m hoping for one that’s a bit nicer.
My backglass is bubbling and the PF has not-so-great touchups under old mylar. Probably a new PF or hardtop candidate if I end up keeping long-term. Great game![quoted image][quoted image]

Nice lineup.....

#2208 4 months ago
Quoted from joelbob:

Hey guys,
New owner of a project EBD and so far I'm enjoying getting it working. When I picked it up it was dead. Since then I've rebuilt the rectifier board and now we have some life. I can start a game but I'm having a few issues detailed the the following video.

1. Displays are fading/scrolling from left to right
2. Very few sounds (Should I recap or replace the squawk and talk board?)
3. Random lights aren't working. I'm struggling with the schematic to understand if it is something on the board or a connector issue.
I think that is it for now. If I need to start a new thread for all of this I'd be happy to. Thanks!

Congrats on joining the club! After 40+ years of playing and owning several machines, including NIB Sterns, EBD is still my favorite.

*Displays are fading/scrolling from left to right*
I'd start with power as all displays are exhibiting similar behavior. You rebuilt the rectifier board and the pin comes up and basically runs now, so that's good. Have you checked the HV test points on the rectifier to make sure it's at the expected voltages? If so, next move is to check the HV test points on the SDB board. Hard to tell from the video, but the caps on the SDB *look* original....if that's the case, they're 20+ years beyond their expected lifespan and should be replaced. Another note: while likely not the source of the fading/scrolling, it would be good practice (and quick & easy) to reflow the solder on all of the header pins of each display.

*Very few sounds (Should I recap or replace the squawk and talk board?)*
Yes to the re-cap (see above regarding the caps on the SDB).

*Random lights aren't working. I'm struggling with the schematic to understand if it is something on the board or a connector issue.*
First thing that should be done on a 38 year old pin - *re-pin all connectors for all of the boards*. Can't emphasize that enough. I've had many, many weird/random issues on project pins go away by putting on new connectors. It's tedious and it takes a long time, but you'll spend more time investigating each odd symptom. Start with a new, clean baseline with known good connection points, and then start drilling down into the individual problems if they still remain after re-pinning.

#2238 4 months ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Fuse blew - what is BR1?

Bridge Rectifier. The diodes near F3 look pretty crusty, too. I'd recommend a rebuild kit for that AS-2518-54 power supply. Pick up a kit from Big Daddy:

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps54a

#2242 4 months ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Thanks, Ordered. Now the jumper wire I got with the alltek does not reach all the way across the back board to reach under the player 2 score reel. I’m assuming pic 1 shows the correct line I need to attach to. So can I attach down here in pic 2 so I don’t blow anything the next go around?

You don't need to go that far with the TP13 wire from the Alltek. You just need to get to a lamp control line and there's one much closer to the Alltek board. Here's a picture of mine (blue wire) - I'm alligator clipping to the control lamp wire under the D-E-L-U-X-E lights. The wire is long - I used it to test/confirm everything was working right when I put in the Alltek board last year, and I haven't gotten around to embedding it in the wire harness yet.

And before anyone admonishes me for the original battery on my EBD MPU, I bought a few Weebly NVRAM chips last month and will be updating it this weekend or next!
Alltek TP13 Wire.jpg

#2248 4 months ago
Quoted from alimerick:

Are EBD 81 replacement wiring harnesses available? Specifically display harness. This harness is chewed up and covered with electrical tape in the large bundle. Looks like it has been pinched in back box door over time. Can go through and patch am sure but would rather replace. Turned on and displays are missing digits etc. moving the harness in the giant electrical tape bundle fixes this.

The good news is that the EBD display wiring harness is shared between a bunch of other early Bally SS titles (18? 25?) so there could be lots of opportunities to find a replacement. The bad news is that I've never seen anyone selling just a harness, and I don't know of any repro's out there (I've seen repro's for the Bally coin door harness, but not the playfield or backbox harnesses). You may have to find a comparable early Bally SS title that someone is willing to part out or you buy a basket case on the cheap to part out yourself.

2 months later
#2291 56 days ago
Quoted from iluvak9:

Been working on the EBD I picked up this month for a few weeks now and down to a few issues that I am seeking guidance on. I just got a brand new replacement MPU, so I'm assuming (hoping) it is not an MPU problem with either issue:
(1) Once in a while (although happening more frequently lately), the voice will announce that the one ball has been made even though the target has not been hit and remains up. It turns the one target light off and lights up the one ball in the rack even though the target is still up. On the next ball, when the targets are reset, the game will drop the one ball as if it was made on the previous ball. This can happen at what seems like a random point in game play from as soon as the moment one the ball is kicked into the plunger lane or at various other points when the ball is in play. So, the game has some issue that makes it think that the one ball target was made when it was not. Is this likely an issue with the switch for the one ball target that needs adjusting (e.g. closing due to being too close together), a connector/wiring issue or something else? I checked using the test menu and the one ball switch does not show up as being closed, but it is possible it is open, but is it possible the contacts are close enough that it closes randomly due to ball action that shakes the playfield enough to close the open switch temporarily and signal a shot made to the MPU?
(2) When I make either the three ball or the four ball, it will turn off the correct corresponding light for that ball target (either 3 or 4 target made) and leave the other target light lit as it should, but will light up both the three and four ball in the rack. It does not count the ball that was not made in the bonus count, so the game recognizes the other ball target was not made. I assume this is most likely a wiring issue under the playfield or in the connector that is causing both to light when only one should.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
- Brian

If this EBD is new to you and you don't know the history of previous repairs, I'd highly recommend to repin all connectors as a first step measure. It's tedious work for sure, but I can't tell you how many times repinning connectors has resolved strange behaviors in lights, switches, and power. Sometimes the pins at the end of the wires, inside the connectors, are corroded or even broken/bent after 40 years of action. It's the first thing I do when I get a new old SS machine.

If you want to take a more targeted approach (no pun intended), you could look up in the schematic the wires and pins for the misbehaving ones and see if you can force the misbehavior by wiggling those wires in the connector (to the corresponds boards in the backbox) and/or gently pound the playfield with your fist near the suspect targets.

#2299 51 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I have my Eight Ball Deluxe thresholds set to 600,000 and 1,100,000 for the first 2 levels. The 600,000 correctly adds a 1 free credit but the 1,100,000 doesn’t do anything. Alltek MPU board. Does something need to be cleared out here? Also what’s the most common 3rd threshold level setting? Thanks

My EBD, MH, and BJ all have their original Bally MPUs but I did use a spare Alltek MPU in all three machines while fixing the original Bally boards. I always got in the habit of doing the Memory Clear Function on the the Alltek whenever I moved the MPU from machine to machine and never had any trouble with the high score thresholds issuing credits when hit.

FWIW, when I have my EBD set for 5 balls I use 1,000,000/1,750,000/2,500,000 and for 3 balls I use 700,000/1,200,000/1,700,000.

#2301 51 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I hit the clear button to clear just the 1,100,000 setting then resetting it to the same value. It did not work. I did not do an entire memory clear. I’ll try that next.
Will I lose all my bookkeeping settings? If so I’ll make a list before I try it.

Yes, pretty sure all the bookkeeping settings will get reset.....

#2305 50 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Yes but I just found the issue. Dip switch 29 was off. If it’s off, only 1 credit per game will be added. I turned switch 29 to on so ALL credits will be added. There’s so many settings and switches this was an easy one to miss.

Woohoo! I was just reading the switch charts in the manual to see if I could find it....glad you got it.

1 week later
#2323 41 days ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Probably a dumb question but what is the difference as far as gameplay goes between the original eight ball deluxe and the other two that followed? I just picked up the 1981 version and the guy had two balls of the playfield of course game doesn't work so I'll be fixing it. Is this game a multiball game?

No gameplay difference between the three versions. I also believe the playfield is the same between all three versions but on the '81, there are individual lamp sockets whereas on the '84 the lamps sockets are on PCBs. The LE had both I think. Backglass on the '84 is slightly smaller than the '81 and on hinged door.

#2327 40 days ago
Quoted from DigitalJB:

Question 1: Do other 8BD owners like the switch over to LED'S?
Question 2: What has been the life of the newer boards so far? Any major Issues?
Question 3: Since I am not sure if the boards were original that came with it do they hold any value? Should I have them redone for originality reasons
Question 4:Does anyone have a copy of the original owners manual I could purchase, get a copy of somehow?

Welcome! EBD is by far my favorite machine...it'll never leave my gameroom.

I did switch to LEDs. I didn't go super bright and left it tasteful. I really like the look of the inserts with the LEDS.

I have an Alltek lamp board in mine and a Rottendog rectifier board....so far so good after 1.5 years. I used an Alltek MPU in it for the first few months while I repaired the original MPU, then put the original MPU back in once it was working. I now use the Alltek in my other Bally pins when I'm troubleshooting stuff. The original boards do hold value - do a search on eBay and you can see how much working and non-working ones sell for (provided there is no battery corrosion damage).

You can get the owner's manual here (PDF): https://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=eight+ball+deluxe&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#762

Have fun!

1 week later
#2344 31 days ago
Quoted from iluvak9:

I turned the game off and back on again, and found the game was not able to restart and it appears that the MPU flash test only gets through four or five flashes before it stops and the game freezes in the same state as it was in when it went crazy during the lamp diagnostic test.

Is it the 4th or 5th flash? I'm not familiar with the Weebly MPU, but for the original Bally 2518 (from http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index2.htm#flash):

Fourth Flash:
The Fakers Guide: no fourth flash means U10 (6821 PIA) is bad.

Techno Guide: The U9 CPU chip now tests the first 6821 PIA chip. There are two of these chips on the MPU board, which are identical and interchangable. The test for both is the same.

To determine if a PIA chip is good, the U9 CPU does the following:

- The CPU accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2 each of the two full byte registers used to store the port initialization information. If does this, one register at a time. After it completes the first register, it repeats for the second. It goes through 256 tests similar to that used to check each byte in U7 (second flash). If each time the CPU writes a word into the register, it can read the same word back, it continues to test until completion.
- The CPU accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2, each of two full byte registers used as data output registers when PA0 to PA7 and PB0 to PB7 are used as outputs. It does the same type of test on each register as described just above. Again if no faults are found, the test is continued until completion.
- The CPU then accesses, by means of input RS0, RS1, CS0, CS1 and CS2, the two ports CA2 and CB2. The port is initialized as an output. The port is then written into to see if it can store a "1" and then a "0".
- A total of 4 x 256 + 4 (=1028) test steps are required to test the PIA chip. However, there are internal buffer amplifiers used with the PB0 to PB7 output registers and CB2 port register which can not be tested by the CPU. Access is only to the register; if the buffer is open, it does not interfere with the registers ability to be written into and read from by the CPU. It is this uncertainity that reduces the accuracy of these test to 99.5%.

Fifth Flash:
The Fakers Guide: no fifth flash means U11 (6821 PIA) is bad.

Techno Guide: Same test is performed on U11 as was performed on U10. See above.

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