Eight Ball Deluxe
Bally, 1981
Eight Ball Deluxe
Bally, 1984
Eight Ball Deluxe Limited Edition
Bally, 1982You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ksuwildcatfan.
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Member of the club, at least for now — not because I don’t love the game, but because I’m hoping for one that’s a bit nicer.
My backglass is bubbling and the PF has not-so-great touchups under old mylar. Probably a new PF or hardtop candidate if I end up keeping long-term. Great game!
4C7BF10E-E787-49C4-8CF2-F56E00D9D258 (resized).jpegC2EA148F-2FEF-42D3-A7DC-92DACECD4BDC (resized).jpegQuoted from Mathazar:Nice lineup.....
Not bad. Wish I could let myself part with Af-Tor, because it’s frustratingly difficult (for me, anyway—lots of bad bounces)..but I can’t.
With that hardtop for EBD maybe coming this year, I may hold out a bit longer. My cab isn’t bad..glass can be replaced..it’s just the beat playfield!
Quoted from tominator:DITTO!
Agreed. EBD was supposed to be that “this game is nowhere $2000+ of fun to me” game that I could easily sell to buy something else. Then I played it. Suffice it to say, I was wrong.
EBD absolutely has that “one more game” draw to it..and usually one turns into at least 5. Agreed there are multiple ways to score big points. Mine is in need of some serious TLC and it’s still a blast. That’s the real sign of a great game. An average game wouldn’t be interesting at all if it were a less than stellar example—imo.
Quoted from Barkz:I’ll try this tomorrow - thanks for all the help so far. I just want to get this running so I can see how great this game is...hopefully worth the effort!
It is, 100%, worth the effort.
Can someone tell me what the behavior SHOULD be, in multiplayer, for the ball drop targets? Seems it’s tracking them fine with lights, but it’s doing all sorts of crazy nonsense with the drop target bank itself.
Works perfectly in single player but iirc it doesn’t drop/raise any targets between balls, it just leaves the bank as-is.
Waiting for a hardtop, myself. My cab isn't nearly nice enough to justify a full playfield swap. But a hardtop.... Easy day one purchase.
Quoted from DigitalJB:Looking to track down light boards for my 8BD, does anyone know where I can track these down? Finally secured my CPR Play Field and want to get all the parts necessary before the transformation begins.[quoted image]
Oooh, those are spiffy
Quoted from orangegsx:Can’t wait! Think I might replace inserts as well[quoted image]
Ooh lah lah!
Quoted from Lovef2k:Practice makes perfect!
I just need to not butcher the shooter lane on this one. I don't anticipate any issues from the hardtop itself!
Wordy post, sorry in advance!
My friend talked me out of selling my EBD (it was slated to be my next hardtop, and given the nightmare my high speed has been, I'm just not feeling it now) because he volunteered to do all the work on it without completely gouging my eyes out from a cost perspective (eg $300-400). It's got a decent cab, but it's not perfect. It doesn't need a full on repaint, but a light touch on 'refreshing' it could do wonders. Anyway, I'm not planning on doing anything with that, at least right now.
So, scenario time:
I've got $1015 in it as it sits (machine+hardtop cost) so clearly I've got some leeway in bringing it back. It has the following issues:
-backglass is delaminating in BIG sections; thinking this is likely past any sort of reasonable repair. The Shay backglass is the best I've seen and will run me about $375.
-plastics are junk and need replaced. CPR set is $150, Shay is $170. No idea which is 'better' as Shay doesn't have any pictures
-already has an Alltek board but the other boards are stock and likely haven't ever been worked on. Probably need to send those out to my board guy to check out/repair any issues. I want to LED anyway so I assume the lamp driver board will need attention.
-Everyone knows the '81 lamp sockets are heinous, so those will be replaced also. I was planning on going with bayonet, unless there's some reason not to?
-several wiring hacks soldered directly on to the boards to undo/repin with new connectors etc
-Legs are gross painted black; I could have my powdercoat guy make them beautiful.. Should I? Anything else I should have him do while it's apart? Rails, lockbar, etc?
-I'm sure there will be various parts that need ordered to replace worn or non working components. Figuring $100-200 here.
So with the backglass, plastics, misc parts, and labor costs I'll be around $2000-2200, and more if I do board work, powdercoating, etc. I definitely don't mind being invested in this game for "what it's worth" but I always worry about going overboard and being way upside down. Say this were to stretch out to $2500 or so but at the end of it I had a hardtopped '81 EBD with new plastics and glass plus nice powdercoated accents, fully LED with sockets swapped and fixed/reworked boards... $2500 isn't bad at all, right? I mean, it's certainly 'up there' by pinside historical numbers but iirc none have been recorded sold with hardtops yet.
Thanks for reading my ridiculously long post 
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:If it makes you feel any better, I've got about $4500 into mine.
-Paid $2000 for the base game. Yeah, too much but it had mostly new boards, the back glass was nice and it was local.
-paid $500 to have someone else stencil and paint the cabinet. I spent close to 40 hours prepping it.
-I installed new playfield and plastics. I also replaced all the lamp sockets.
-New legs and side rails.
-All new displays and many other parts.
-Was given an 84 version playfield with lots of parts that I used many of.
-I repinned every connector. That alone took 8 hours over two days. After 4 hours of it one day, I had to take a break.
I've got over 120 hours into the restoration and I don't think I'd ever do another from that era. It was a lot more work than I was used to.
$2500 with a hardtop doesn't sound all that bad if everything else is fairly nice.
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I had planned on this being a super cheap build since I got the machine for $667, but I've completely butchered the hardtop prep on my high speed and I said I absolutely wouldn't do the same to my EBD--I'd sooner sell it than let that happen. But my friend stepped up and made my decision on what to do a lot easier..
EBD is one of very few games I will voluntarily let myself potentially be upside down in but I can't get too crazy. Money is always tight on this and I have to pay attention where I am as I go along. Bleh.
Doesn't look so bad in pictures but I'm actually... It's pretty rough in a lot of ways. Cabinet is fairly decent though. There's potential...
IMG_20190815_145525 (resized).jpgIt's funny, because when I got this machine (it came as a package deal with meteor and Black Knight 2000) I thought it looked like the most overrated thing ever and I was intent on dumping it as quickly as I could. Luckily I didn't get it sold before I brought it home and tried it out. Mine plays like absolute crap (all I did was adjust one pop a bit, but otherwise it's in as-found condition still) and it's STILL fun to play. I think that says it all.
I fully intend on keeping it long term and plan on it being well out in front of some of my other machines in terms of which order I'd potentially sell them if I had to. So I guess that alone makes the long-winded post a bit moot. But tbh it sounds like $2500 with all the touches I mentioned isn't egregious by any means, and I guess that's what I was going after.
Thanks to both of you for your candid responses, I appreciate it!
Quoted from phillyfan64:I paid over $3000 for mine. Cabinet and playfield are pretty nice. I’ve since replaced the backglass with the Shay repro. Replaced the crummy legs with repros from PBR. Boards are new. I easily have over $4000 tied up in mine. I plan to upgrade the displays. I’m in way too deep but have no intention of selling it. I’d say go for it.
The way I see it, I have 5 machines (with F-14 coming, so 6).. as far as titles I really don't want to NOT have in my collection, Eight Ball Deluxe would safely find itself in the top half--safely ahead of High Speed and probably also in front of F-14 (no idea until I put some plays on it) and pretty equal but slightly ahead for me with Meteor and Space Shuttle. The only game I have that might be ahead of EBD in terms of overall desire to keep might be world cup soccer 94.
EBD is awesome. Once I have a nice one, it's going nowhere and will be played, a LOT. I think I could stomach having up to 3000 in it, with absolutely every 'wishlist' item checked off. Seems a common theme for EBD owners to go completely off the rails.. There's good reason why.
I guess I've danced around a bit on my position here. You all goated me into it with your big numbers 
Nicely done. I'm no longer concerned, LOL
Quoted from Mathazar:Wow...new gold standard to compare our EBD's to. $7500 but I don't think I've ever seen a nicer one:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/89466
Yikes. It's definitely beautiful though.
Two nice machines! I believe that's the first one I've seen hardtopped. Mine is headed south to get worked on very soon. Seeing yours makes me even more anxious to have it done and back in my lineup!
It looks outstanding. I really like the hardtop product. My Space Shuttle plays fast as hell. I can't wait to play an EBD that's nearly as fast. My only real experience is with a neglected game with half working flippers... Lol
Quoted from Lovef2k:I don't think that you can put too much money into ebd. I have done 3 high end ebd restores. They sold between 4800 and 5300 in the early 2010s and in 2018 for 7750. There's always a good market for ebd. A good investment imo. I have 3 more ebds to do and look forward to see what they go for.
Good perspective. I wish my cab were a bit nicer. Overall it's pretty decent, and could possibly be freshened up some, but the back box has a bad chip in one corner and that would take some reworking for sure. Generally I'm not a huge condition collector anyways--most everything gets somewhat bruised going down my stupid staircase anyway--but still.
I'm excited to get rolling on this. I think it's heading south on Saturday and the legs/rails/lockbar are headed off for powder.
Quoted from BlueIrocGuy:I’ve got a question for those folks that have done an Ebd restoration and replaced the light sockets. What did you replace them with? The original 555 style or a 44/47 light socket and any particular reason for choosing one over the other?
Thanks in advance!
I'm going with bayonet style on mine. I absolutely hate wedges. Not going to use those any time I get a choice.
I changed 3 bulbs in my EBD and broke two of the posts. What an absolute turd setup with the original configuration.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Yes definitely bayonet. Except for me on EBD Gi lamps on the upper play field I kept the 555 sockets where you can see them under the clear plastics to keep the original look. It's hard to find bayonet sockets that will keep the bulb above the pf surface without the side of the socket being visible.
Good point. I'll probably leave the top PF and back box ones as wedges, even though I hate em
Can someone who is absolutely 100% sure their '81 has original legs show me what theirs look like? I'm trying to sort out among three sets from a high speed, a meteor, and the EBD I got and I want to be certain I'm powdercoating the right set. All three of these sets were painted -- poorly -- and I'm not sure what goes where, ASSUMING any of them are even original.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Bally EBD legs are 28.5 inches. No ribs along the outside 90 degree edge. The bottom where the leg leveler screws on the bottom will not be rounded off like Sterns. Will be a sharp 90 degree angle.
Original color charcoal grey.
Meteor about the same except the bottom plate is rounded off. Medium grey or black.
HS originally were chrome.
Yeah I'm pretty sure nothing in that lot had proper legs for high speed. I ended up giving it the legs from my World Cup Soccer 94 (they are fairly close imo) when I bought brass replacements.
I'm guessing that I have EBD and meteor swapped partially. My rear legs are rounded/front sharp square bottom, vice versa on meteor.
These were on high speed. It came along later, several months after i had brought BK2K/Meteor/EBD home.
Meteor now has the rounded edge bottom.
Really I'm not obsessed with making sure they're original, but I figured I'd send the RIGHT ones off for powder if I had them.
IMG_20200131_162214 (resized).jpgIMG_20200131_162218 (resized).jpgMmmmm... Possibly. I think HS looks okay with the WPC legs I robbed off my WSC, so I'll probably just leave them be. I don't think I'm gonna go stupid with powdercoating on that one because I'm not entirely convinced it's a long term keeper once (if) I finish this hardtop. Looks close enough to what the ad showed for my tastes.
3dd00f0c71c3dbdee88f76ed1a4504661991acfb (resized).jpgIMG_20190929_000959 (resized).jpgIMG_20200131_191327 (resized).jpgQuoted from Lovef2k:Ha, I know what ya mean. I have 2 HS to restore. One will be a nos pf and the other is a hard top. The Nos I had auto cleared since the factory clear was crap.
My shooter lane was trashed and I went WAY too far trying to make it right.. which it isn't, and won't ever be I don't think...I need to just paint the stupid thing and move forward. It's been an awful experience--to no fault of Outside Edge. I hope it goes smoother once I half ass the shooter lane enough to call it "finished". I've become very jaded lol
I was ready to--reluctantly--dump this EBD just at the thought of having to do this again 
Quoted from Lovef2k:Well I think you won't have as much work doing the hardtop on EBD. It only has 1 star roll over not 2. No ramps or habitrails to deal with. Less weight than HS. I don't recall the issue with your HS shooter lane. If you're not happy with, try stripping to bare wood and use a wood bleaching product, this may remove the dark stains. It's worth a shot. There may also be a vinyl product similar to contact paper that has adhesive that you can apply if you can find it with a wood grain pattern? I'm going to look into that...
EBD just got dropped 2 hours south, with a friend of mine. He wants to suffer through a hard top and I was all but resigned to selling it and buying a different one later. It's in far better hands with him than it would have been with me.
I snagged the metal pieces to drop for powdercoating.
On HS I just got way too aggressive and I've been trying to dig my way out. I'm sure it'll be fine, but it's not been a fun experience. I'm just going to paint the ball trough and clear it. Who cares at this point, I'm over dwelling on it.
received_678950349307334 (resized).jpegDidn't sell. Took my friend up on an offer I couldn't refuse and farmed out the work. He's far better suited to take it on. I'm going to try to lightly touch up a few spots on the cab when he's done--hoping to avoid completely repainting--but we'll see how it goes. He's got a lot ahead.
Here's the laundry list:
-hardtop
-bulb socket swap to bayonets
-board bulletproofing (MPU already replaced with an Alltek)
-powdercoating rails/lockbar/legs/rear glass channel, high gloss black
-cabinet touch up / restencil if needed
-new plastics, planning on buying the CPR set
-new backglass, planning on buying from Shay
-whatever else pops up along the way
I figure this will take a while--i told him not to make this a priority. But I'm over the money worries, and I'm ready to make this thing gorgeous. 
Whoops, yeah, forgot to include 'fixing the wiring'. It's got some hacks and a lot of the connectors are just... Yuck.
I fully expect this job to take a while, so I'll miss EBD while it's gone but it's going to be so nice when I get it back!
My friend is saying that since I dropped off my EBD he's had no sound (he says there's a hum but nothing else?). When it was here the sound worked fine but the pitch was a bit high -- not alvin high, but higher than it 'should' be. Alas, no sound now and he's pretty sure everything got plugged back in correctly. Does the pitchiness hint at any particular reason why it might have altogether stopped working when I drove it 2 hours south to deliver to him? I'm a bit stumped tbh
AFAIK that connector has been that exact amount of burnt the entire time I've owned it, and probably for yeeeeears before. I noted that when I was looking it over upon bringing it down to my basement. Weird it never had any sound issues until I brought it back up and delivered it elsewhere but I'm not surprised to hear the boards could need some work. I highly doubt they've ever been worked on.
I'm buying a new set of plastics since I have a couple that are broken; I might have some useable extras. I'll check and get back with you.
Assuming pcbs are still (now and forever) unobtainium, I'm assuming my best option forward to rid myself of the awful '81 wedge setup for controlled lights is to just swap for bayonets.. Yes? Any suggestions where would be best to buy enough in bulk, for a reasonable price?
Quoted from Alan_L:Pinball Resource. I just ordered new bayonet sockets and wire. Sockets are part # A2916, .92 each, and the wire is on the Tools/Supplies tab under Material. Part # is MAT-PF-BRAID, .20 per foot. I ordered 20 feet, I have no idea how much I'll need.
You should also order one each of the A2913 and A2914 laydown sockets. The A2913 goes right underneath the upper drop target bank reset coil, and the A2914 goes under the star rollover on the left side.
Thank you!
Random question but was there a 1981 EBD variant that had a bluish tone on the eight ball? My cab was clearly black/gray but I noticed the CPR glass is decidedly bluer and the Shay glass is more like my original.. Anyone know for sure?
Screenshot_20200221-124231 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20200221-091722 (resized).jpgreceived_589598554932521 (resized).jpegOh I know that. I thought the same but the last bluish one I saw the guy claimed to be OEM and purchased in the 80s so I wasn't sure.
I actually won that, but after I paid and he was gathering it to be picked up he noticed some condition issues.. So I passed.
Quoted from phillyfan64:Wait isn’t that the CPR version?? I’m confused!
That's what I said when I saw it! But he insisted it was NOS, from the 80s. I have no reason to doubt his claim. Really I had no interest in anything that seemed colors were off.. But for $150 figured I could deal with this.. Until he showed several small bubbles. I already have bubbly glass, noooo thanks.
I was really hoping to fix mine.. But there's no way. It's lifted far too much now imo. Shay glass is the only repro I've seen that meshes with the quality I feel I want. Can't have crummy glass go along with a hard top and powdercoated everything...
IMG_20200124_053153 (resized).jpgIMG_20200124_053228 (resized).jpg
I'm not doing it on my EBD. My friend volunteered to do the work and I agreed. I'm in the middle of hardtopping a high speed and I hate it--but not because of anything to do with the hardtop itself. I got too aggressive trying to fix the shooter lane (which looked awful) and that's had me stalled for a long time. I suspect the hard top itself will be fine.
I bought a space shuttle with a hard top and I really like it. It's punishingly fast.
Quoted from Bohdi:Just a little Novus 2 i think would shine that PF up nicely
Probably just a fuse
3 EBD restores! 
Lol.
I pawned mine off on a friend because I didn't want to take it on... Disheartened by my high speed hardtop (feeling much better about it now) I was ready to just sell EBD and move on when he insisted I didn't and volunteered to do it for me. Kinda miss having it in my lineup.. It's gonna be a bit before I see mine again.. But eventually, we'll be reunited!
Shooter lane woes hung me up for weeks. Self-inflicted pain. Don't be intimidated, but also don't be an idiot like I was and it's no problem. And take lots of GOOD, DETAILED pictures. My pictures are garbage. I've done so much reassembly just to undo and redo.. Sometimes multiple times... But the hardtop itself is fine. Don't let it intimidate you.
Oh, and build or buy a rotisserie. I will complete high speed without having done that and it's been a real hassle. I can see some spots where damage happened (plastic edges of some coils etc--just cosmetic crap). Use my negative examples to do better. Lol
I've only been in the hobby since January of last year so I'm still VERY green.. Not that the majority of this is all that complicated, but I still fumble around a lot.
And for me, good working condition is almost always good enough. EBD felt like way more work than I felt comfortable taking on, especially when at the time I was stuck drowning in quicksand on high speed. But now I'm almost done with it and tbh if ebd were still at my house I'd probably be comfortable giving it a go. But it's already 3 hours south, so...
I've got plenty of other crap to keep me busy after HS is done, so it's probably for the best that EBD made it on to someone else's to do list.
Quoted from pfcjimmy:The three were just a little too big but the others were way too small. Ended up drilling the plastic holes to fit.
Here is my before and after.
New hardtop, drop targets, pop bumpers, plastics, posts, rubber, flipper rebuild, LEDs, and cue ball shooter rod.
Thanks to firefighter for the advice on the hardtop prep![quoted image][quoted image]
Looks great!
Quoted from lordloss:Going to see how much of a EBD I can build up with all these spare parts.[quoted image][quoted image]
Haha. My top right plastic is broken but I plan on buying new anyway..Well, assuming the entire economy doesn't COMPLETELY collapse.. So I guess I'll start a pile also 
Man, my friend got lucky. The saucer and shooter lane actually look pretty good on this (just dirty), unlike my high speed which was BUTCHERED. Kind of surprising considering the other crazy operator hack fixes he's already found on this..
received_211879930150217 (resized).jpegreceived_217401689337703 (resized).jpegreceived_845278325992262 (resized).jpegScreenshot_20200327-080011 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20200327-080048 (resized).jpgreceived_219431485835891 (resized).jpeg
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/PI-1RW
This lil guy?
Quoted from Lovef2k:Yeah that looks like it. Throw in the tumbler if you're using one to shine parts. 2 days at least with medium to fine walnut crushed walnut shell
The lens looks correct.
Haha I tried to delete that before anyone saw because I felt like a doofus after looking at my reference pic. Isn't that hole in the PF a LOT wider than this? Maybe my PF has some hack job nonsense there...
Quoted from Lovef2k:The red arrow is the correct spot. The hole could have been stretched out if the pin was loose. You can also try a larger size pin if you don't want to fill the hole and drill. The pin is barely visible once fully assembled.
So should that spot with the black arrow just be filled prior to hard top install?
//EDIT I guess I could just have him verify against whatever exists on the hardtop itself.
Also, I guess we're going to just look at replacing all these inserts because they're kind of crummy anyway. Are all the bigger ones 1"? And are all the smaller ones a single size also?
Thanks for helping with all my dumb questions, I appreciate it!
Quoted from FLASHBALL:Tackled the squawk and talk board tonight. Put all new capacitors and sound pots into it.
Shout out to toddsvec at BigDaddy for providing the caps! Process went very smoothly and I'm happy with the results.
Next up is the 25 pin connector J3 on the solenoid driver board. Would someone mind taking a decent picture of theirs so I can see all the wire colors? Someone did a hackjob on this one.
Thanks.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
You mean Chet the chipmunk is no more? 
Quoted from slicknick13:So I grabbed this freebie the other day. It's missing a lot and has a cut harness, but the only spare parts I'm missing are a slingshot and the 7 bank drop target. I have enough bally scrap wire around to make the rest of the harness and I'll just make a molex splice.
I think I can make a game out of it on the cheap. One of those no-rush, grab the parts when I can deals. I'll make a thread when I get more stuff.
At the very least, I can drop it into my Kings of Steel cab until I can get the transformer and cabinet squared away.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Nice! It doesn't really even look all that beat...
Quoted from meSz:Anyone have any used good 555 sockets that would be willing to part with? I am working on an early example of EBD and don't want new sockets. I have several sockets that are beat/broken and I want to swap out! Need maybe 10 long (inserts) and 2 short (GI). PM if you can help out.
Several posts back, someone was selling a complete set.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:That's if you order the specific kit for EBD. I've seen people using the standard 3 piece kit and not getting the other 2 for the aux LDB with no issue. I'm gonna go with the $45 standard kit and see how it looks.
I assume that's what I bought for my meteor (which likely needs board work anyway--LEDs still flicker) so I guess I'll pull those out and ship to my friend to go with EBD, so he can give them a try.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Yes. Most games work with the standard 3 piece kit. And Meteor is a special case. You may need LDB work, but you will likely still need to add a few resistors to problem lamps after that also. I added 8 or 9 resistors to lamps that still flickered after the 3 piece kit and all LDB work was done.
Yeah I've done zero board work on meteor thus far.. Haven't even swapped out the battery..... Oof
Quoted from pinfixer:Anyone overseas making the white EBD caps? Many of us here in the US are in need, but thus far PBR and PPS have come up dry. PPS says they're going to make 'em but alas nothing yet.
Perhaps this would be an OK forum to poll how many people would buy a set of white caps and rings. Steve Young swears there is no market for em. I tend to think differently. If I happen to be right, maybe the poll results would help move him along. Just as an aside, the only other game with white caps was Grand Slam. I've even toyed with the idea of having the white caps 3D printed and then put a decal on them. Doubt that it would look right though.
Anyone have extra white caps or rings? Drop me a PM if you would be willing to part with them.
Just for those of you keeping score at home, EBD white version were the only hot-stamped ring in addition to the cap. Probably why they changed it.....
John
Surely someone is reproing these by now.. Right?
Screenshot_20200508-112733 (resized).jpgQuoted from Lovef2k:Nope. Not enough demand I suppose. I have been looking for years. Even if someone reproduces the cap and ring we still need the hot stamping done.
Man, that's a bummer. I'd pay way over what an orange set goes for to get a set of white repros.
Quoted from meSz:I actually looked into repo-ing these. First I tried to see if Steve at PBR would do them and he said the demand just wasnt there so no plans to do so.
I then had it looked into having them made and it was just under 5k to make 1000 sets. Tooling being the most expense.
I don't like that news at all! Or the broken tabs above... Grooooannnn
I'd dump $100 easy on a set of whites that aren't fragile pieces of crap. Surely I can't be the only idiot out there?
Quoted from Lovef2k:I was offered a set of 3 white caps w/o the rings for $300 but was too much for me to spend. This was years ago.
WOOF. Not surprised though, for originals. No rings though... Jesus.
Quoted from Lovef2k:For this reason even if I had white caps I would only put them on for show only.
Yeah at that kind of price I don't think I could use them in an actual machine. That's a bummer.
Quoted from meSz:Yeah and that's not including the license fee for Rick. Due to these having the EBD on them they would need licensed. Not sure what he charges but need to add that into the cost as well.
Really unfortunate it seems these have so many hurdles that they'll almost certainly never happen.
Any idea if a white cap even exists in this style? I did a quick glance didn't find anything.
Screenshot_20200508-185418 (resized).jpgScreenshot_20200508-185423 (resized).jpgQuoted from DigitalJB:Here she is fellas 'EBD1268" just finished this past weekend.
New Stencil kit and repainted cabinet
New CPR GOLD playfield (Also clear coated)
New Boards throughout
Every light bayonet and light replaced (EVERYONE ONE OF THEM)
New legs and Casters
Original white caps and pops replaced
New plastics
New blue posts
ETC ETC............
Mission Accomplished![quoted image]
Jesus that looks amazing. I know the LEGIT white pop caps are unobtanium and absolutely stupid price... so.. is anyone aware of GENERIC, BLANK WHITE caps? I would be willing to try stenciling the art in place to get them 'close'.
I'm not turning much up in my search for them.. Or are these caps a completely different style altogether? FLASHBALL look at this gorgeous thing!
Quoted from DigitalJB:Took down pics because they were a little blurry, will take better pics and repost.
The White caps were customer made and the graphics were laser printed by the guy who rebuilt the machine for me.
After looking at the original flyer I had to go with the white caps!
I need to make this happen too. Definitely.
My amusing story goes like this:
My first really nice pinball score was a Black Knight 2000, a Meteor, and my Eight Ball Deluxe, picked up at once, for $2000 March of last year. I had contacted her based on finding the Eight Ball Deluxe listing on Facebook for $1000 iirc ($500 for Meteor, $800 for Black Knight 2000) and she said she'd take an even 2 for all. My thought was that I'd keep the BK2K--surely, it was the best.. Right?!--and quickly dump the other two to recoup my investment. I was actually quite bitter about having to drag EBD home to put it together and prove it worked. No way I was keeping it, it just wasn't good enough compared to what it was 'worth'. Meteor surely wasn't any better but it wasn't worth anything so who cares.. Right? 
BK2K hung around for a couple months before I got bored and shopped it around, eventually selling it. Meteor stuck around until I needed to free up space (LOVED that game) and EBD ended up getting new Shay glass and plastics, a hardtop ordered, a Pinball Pimp stencil kit, jet black powdercoated *everything*, and a promise that it was going absolutely nowhere.
It's the only machine from that original pick that hasn't been expendable and it's the only one I deemed worthy of dumping a bunch of money into. And yet, it was the red headed stepchild, for me, from that pick. I look back on this Facebook thread every so often and just laugh because I was so far off.
Screenshot_20200723-153645 (resized).jpgDoes anyone have pictures/part numbers/whatever handy on just how the heck the pop area is assembled? I have absolutely no idea if I ordered all the necessary parts and I'm pretty confused on how those giant holes are covered. I was going to try adapting a different set to my game but without understanding how it assembles I'm kind of up a creek on both sides. The manual wasn't particularly helpful..
Quoted from Mathazar:The user manual is kinda bare with regards to parts info....there are specific Bally part manuals available online:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Parts_Catalogs
Thanks a ton!
Now to figure out how to adapt this thing...
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Somewhere deep in the HEP thread, Chris put different pop bodies and caps on a Centaur (which uses the same modular bases) and there is a bit of a how to. Search in there.
Thank you a bunch! I'm gonna go dig for that.
Welp. No luck. Maybe I'm not looking in the right thread?
Quoted from Soulrider911:Need a lovely minature version of your full sized pin at your desk? I decided to make some they can be found on my Etsy
https://www.etsy.com/your/shops/FactoryofFun/tools/listings?ref=seller-platform-mcnav
[quoted image][quoted image]
Link doesn't seem to work?
That worked. I might be interested in an 81 EBD if you do more. Do you by chance have more pictures (primarily looking for one that shows what the pf/bg look like on it), and do you plan on doing more of those?
I'd love to have one with a correct color back box. Bonus, if I could get one with jet black rails/lockbar/legs as my machine is going to be, but I realize that may be asking a bit much away from what most people would want.. Lol
Quoted from matt_adams:Can I ask if anyone has installed the Rottendog led displays in their game and if so what did you think? I have an LE so they would be behind the red perspex.
I have installed Xpin displays in my Grand Lizard and they are great but I don't have any experience of the Rottendog ones!
I have rottendog displays in my space shuttle and I'm not a huge fan. Xpin in my high speed and I love them. Just ordered xpin for my EBD.
So, Comet 2SMD warm white is a no go? That's been one of my most commonly used GI bulbs for mid-80s games (Space Shuttle, High Speed, Taxi).. Doesn't look good on EBD?
Quoted from phillyfan64:Are you using the frosted or clear? I actually have the Comet 1SMD warm white frosted in the GI now. Not quite as bright as the 2SMD but I do like it. But I might like the incandescent glow a little better. I don’t know. I can’t decide!! It’s an endless debate.
Frosted, always. Definitely not clear for GI, but I use frosted everywhere. 2SMD warm frosted are my favorite GI bulb. Sunlight is cool too but imo it's too much most of the time, at least for the kind of games I like.
IMG_20200323_124607 (resized).jpg
IMG_20200803_140023 (resized).jpgIMG_20200813_183253 (resized).jpgClear bulbs are gross, imo. Frosted 4 lyfe.
My Evo BriteCaps don't photograph worth a damn (at least in a full cab shot) which kind of takes away from the overall experience with the pics. But as for GI I've been really pleased with warm white in most of my machines. A few have cool white (Demo Man, Terminator 2, Cactus Jack's--which I didn't personally LED) but my preference is almost always warm, at least to start with.
I'm crossing my fingers with EBD and planning on trying warm white again. I still need to figure out what exactly I'm doing with the bulbs under the playfield, too. I absolutely detest those damn wedge sockets.
Quoted from BorisSWort:I’ve watched some videos and now am thinking of repinning the connectors on my 1981 EBD. Does anyone sell a package of the connectors and pins I would need? What connector would be the easiest one to start on?
I'm pretty sure BigDaddyEnterprises has a kit. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
In the interim, here's the site..maybe you can find it before I do:
Quoted from phillyfan64:If you are keeping the original linear flippers:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/P-6264-134
I've kicked this around a lot..SHOULD the flippers be modified? What's your opinion?
Quoted from slochar:Absolutely. IMO linear flippers are shit. I know why they were made originally; they last a LONG time on location without maintenance. (i.e. they will still work even after the parts (mainly the nylon button) get worn.) There's a lot of moving mass to them so effectively makes your flipper weaker. Also, the parts to replace are a lot more expensive than the earlier style.
I change all my linears to the earlier style automatically, I don't even hesitate when rebuilding them. The linear baseplate can be reused on the earlier style easily.Linear flippers have a long metal plunger with a notch in it look at your flipper mech if you have that, it's linear. The other style is a brown fiberboard link.
Any suggestions on a game that natively used this so I can go pull part numbers from the manual to order everything?
I just figure it's all getting rebuilt with the hardtop, might as well do it 'right' if it sucks as is.
My original caps looked like hammered dog shit and it appears they had to get the glue treatment also.
I was going to just buy new amber ones to replace them but the fact that I don't think they look that good to begin with AND that they seem to break.....easily....prompted me to explore other options. Having copycat white ones made will hopefully yield better results. Guess time will tell. I like the physical design a lot better, at any rate.
1034155729961858194 (resized).JPGIMG_20190706_141215 (resized).jpgQuoted from midcoastsurf:Cool! Are you selling these? I'm missing a cap on one of mine and considering my options.
I considered it, but the cost would probably price most people out. Just the bare parts alone ran me around $50, and then I paid my friend's wife $5 per cap for the artwork. The labor isn't terrible -- apply art, lightly clear, shave a bit off the bodies -- so I suppose I could cut myself out entirely and just give info on the process/parts and then my friend's wife could just send out the decals as requested?
I think she made me a second set (I bought the extra parts just in case it didn't work out on the trial run) but I was just going to stash those away in case I needed them later. I have no idea as to the long-term performance/lastability of these but IMO it's a better design than the stock amber junk, at least.
One thing to note, this modification replaces the original body, cap, AND collar. So you'll be rebuilding the pops (topside) in order to use them. If pricing doesn't price everyone out, I assume that will catch the majority of the rest!
Quoted from mbeardsley:I'm confused. What exactly did you do here? Did you re-design the whole pop bumper mechanism? It's unclear to me what the difference is.
You said that you remade new white caps, but those look like the regular orange ones to me. Did you buy the "plain" orange caps and add a decal to them? If so, how is that going to prevent the tabs from breaking on the plain caps?
You said $50 for parts, but it's not clear what parts you replaced / changed. Please explain. Cost is less of a factor for me (I've probably spent $200 in replacement caps over the past 35 years).
Thanks.
It's a retrofitted system entirely. The center cap snaps into the lower body piece which also includes the outer ring -- but in one combined piece. The original EBD body is completely different.
I suppose it's possible these cap clips could break also...
I don't have enough experience to know why the amber caps would have issue since mine were already glued when I got it. Why do they break so easily?
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Quoted from mbeardsley:It's the little plastic tabs on the inner cap that break. I can provide a picture of my stack of broken caps when I get home this evening.
What do you screw them into? On my pop bumper body there is nothing there to "receive" the screws. The screws would simply sit in the hole and not be attached to anything.
I mean, that would seem to indicate that this system will have the same problems, then..I think? Another reason to not even try selling them, I guess. The last thing I want is to be directly responsible for the frustrations of others!
Quoted from phillyfan64:Are these 3D printed or something? How did you make these? Not trying to steal any secrets or anything but they look fantastic.
Wasn't even my idea. They're gottlieb caps/bodies that have been modified to fit.
I might be protective of it if it were genuinely my idea / design. But it wasn't.
I'm happy to pass on the knowledge to anyone who wants to try it, or I can probably do all the work and supply them ready for install to those who aren't able. I think they look phenomenal...I just hope they don't break like it sounds is so common on EBD.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Looking at the picture above of the body piece from Marco, that looks different than the ones I have. Mine don't have those obvious screw holes in them.
Maybe that's my real problem. I guess that I will have to see about replacing them. I've been wanting to rebuild them anyway, so I guess this makes for a good excuse.
I originally bought the proper bodies (as in the Marco picture), but not new amber caps, in order to rebuild my pops post-hardtop and then found out about the custom white caps. Made my decision really easy.
Quoted from phillyfan64:It might look ok with the tiny black screws. It looks like that body has threaded inserts for screws.
I'm wondering if the inner caps break because the outer collar is technically not a solid part of the body? Basically you have the body, the collar snapped on to that, and the cap snapped on to the collar. That's a lot of potential stress points in an area that gets a lot of abuse (duh, that's the point).
The custom white pops, by comparison, have a solid body/collar and the stress points are just for the cap, which shouldn't really see any abuse. I'd think only the bodies themselves would receive the abuse and the cap should be isolated. But I'm also no engineer and that could be 100% incorrect.
Quoted from vec-tor:That is a Gottlieb part. Not a Bally part.
I think I said that. It's a Gottlieb body that's been modified to work in a Bally machine using otherwise stock mounting hardware.
Quoted from vec-tor:------ also when one tries to put on said caps they are going to be in
------ three deferent positions. Which then, one has to cut and hack
------ a solution in order for the final product to look decent.
If you're simply meaning that it's important to note orientation during design, I agree. Installation should be no big deal because it will be obvious which way is up based on the artwork.
Updated pics of mine! Backglass hasn't been swapped with my new shay glass yet and the inner 'ring' of sockets either need replaced -- again -- or I need to use a very short bulb, probably 1SMD warm white domeless. I'll order some of those with my BF order so I can try different setups.
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Obviously the cab is still.....ugly. I've got a stencil kit from PinballPimp downstairs for it.....someday.
I think so? All of these guys.
Those clear plastics suck. In addition to the one incorrect piece Shay sent me (around the 8ball target) the clear plastics under the flipper guides are drilled differently. Not really sure how I'm going to address that just yet.
received_183290913432179 (resized).jpegQuoted from phillyfan64:Yes those are the sockets. Also 2 more sockets down by the flippers under those clear plastics. Make sure you get these from PBR and not Marco. They are different. Marcos will not fit look even though they look similar. We went through 3 different sizes before we found the correct socket.
Typical Marco. Color me unsurprised. PBR is a much better resource, but holy gawd the ordering process stinks lol.
Would the proper sockets for the inserts be the 6th ones down -- A2916? I figure I might be willing to do that nonsense later on down the road, like when I have the playfield out of the cab for an extended period of time so I can repaint it. Might as well order them now if so.
Quoted from Mathazar:I second that - I'm having a similar issue. I finally got sick of the ball hopping over the metal in-lane guides on hard shots that I dug out some clear EBD plastics I've picked up over the years knowing I'd have to make some new holes since they don't line up. I've got 5....no idea why I have an odd number, all are new with protective film still on them. Not sure where I got these (too much time has passed) but I know at least one set came from Marco's. All 5 have the same hole alignments (bad, doesn't line up with the metal guides or the playfield holes) and all have different color peel away plastic protector film suggesting different sources or at least different batches.
Anyway, putting new holes in the plastic is easy enough, and I already had the extra bells to put in them to make the double-decker plastic and metal combo guides. Unfortunately, after installing, I now have the dreaded "ball hop" as the ball movement transitions from the clear plastic guide to the flipper. Oy.
I then thought I'd be clever and take another plastic guide and position the holes in such a way the top edge of the guide is even or slightly above the flipper rubber so that the ball hop is eliminated. That worked, but now the guide itself is too close the slingshot rubber and the ball gets stuck in the in-line. Oy.
Three plastics messed up and two left. I'm contemplating what to try next....I don't want to trash my last pair.
Yikes! I think my old ones ended up getting reinstalled for the time being. Not really sure where to go with it. Kind of the same deal with that curved plastic that apparently shouldn't be.
https://www.pinballlife.com/miniature-bayonet-base-1-lead-socket-with-long-mounting-bracket.html So would these be the same, without the tab?
Quoted from djblouw:Has anyone tried the set of clear plastics from Playfield Protectors? Do they exhibit the same issues?
https://www.playfield-protectors.com/Home/Details/k-P8fMH7BUyaJZcTYDBoow?categoryid=24&category=-&name=Eight%20Ball%20Deluxe%20%7C%201981
I'd try them but shipping is bonkers.
Screenshot_20201124-202505_Samsung Internet (resized).jpgQuoted from djblouw:Yeah, the best way is to buy them with a pf protector (for a different game). But I think I've seen them on epay every now-and-then.
Yeah, that or a group buy of some sort. Seems like that would be kind of counter productive but at 40 euros shipping...yeesh.
Quoted from FLASHBALL:I would bet $ that if the "plate" is about .25" x .50" that my shop vac ate one of them when I was vacuuming the cabinet. Wasnt quite sure what it was at the time but it was about the right size. I'll see if I can fish it out with a magnet.
Vacuum service usually costs extra!
Quoted from mbeardsley:My pop bumper cap experiment seems to be a success.
Rather than continuing to buy EBD caps at $12 bucks (or more) each (when they are available), I purchased a bunch of "plain" amber caps from Pinball Resource at $3 each. Then, I used a laser printer to print the EBD image onto 2" clear labels, and applied the labels to the "clear" caps. The results are pretty good.
The first picture shows my result on the left, with a regular EBD cap on the right (with a bunch of my broken "dead soldiers" behind them).
The second picture shows them installed on my machine.
This won't solve the problem of them breaking so often, but at least they will be much cheaper to replace when they do (and they don't have the ugly screw holes in them either).
[quoted image][quoted image]
Nice work! Looks good.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Those white caps are so purdy!
Man, they really are. I love love love them!
Quoted from midcoastsurf:The white caps with white rings should be reproduced.
Really does seem like a missed opportunity for there to not be officially licenced repro white caps. They look so much better than the amber imo
Quoted from Gatecrasher:I'll take the amber. You guys can have the white.
All yours, bucko!
Quoted from Gatecrasher:You wouldn't have to license the white caps though. Only the artwork is copyrighted. You can mold the plastic out of any color you want.
One of the reason they don't do the white is the demand is low. More people prefer the amber. When I run my injection-molded parts I make thousands not one or two.
It's just like when guys ask me if I can make my plastic backglass edge trim white like early Stern machines used instead of the more-common black like Bally used. The answer is "sure I can" but I have to make a minimum amount to make it economically feasible. The minimum amount exceeds any possible amount I could ever hope to sell so I won't be doing it anytime soon. But if you were to commit to a pallet of them I would probably do it.
That's a fair point, but I don't personally feel demand is that low. Maybe I'm wrong. I bet a lot of people don't even know they exist(ed). I didn't know these existed until I had already owned my machine for several months. At that point I knew I needed something that looked like those when I had my game rebuilt, so I had copycats made. They aren't the legitimate ones (I don't think I could put those in a machine considering how rare they are) but they look really, really good, IMO. The amber isn't horrible, I just don't think it looks particularly great. You know what they say about opinions.
Quoted from Gatecrasher:These are the parts I sell to the public.
All fit EBD except the 3/16" backglass trim.
[quoted image]
Wish I had known when I ordered the lift channel. Looks like nice stuff! Glad to see people picking up and supporting these machines into 2020.
Quoted from jj44114:me too!
They look like ufos all lit up. I. Freaking. Love. Them.
received_696103184424778 (resized).jpegQuoted from mbeardsley:I do like the white caps, but I can't say that I like the purple posts...
The red posts look good, especially with the white caps. But I think that if you have the orange caps, the blue posts look better.
Just my opinion.
They're blue posts, I think it's just a camera trick making them look purple. That or the domeless warm white bulbs I had to buy are doing it.
I have to tear everything down again anyway (defective hardtop imploded on the first game played, so THAT sucks) so if they look purple in person I'll probably change them. They were all new ones, not reused. Colors could be different.
Quoted from Ballypin:What ?? Explain.
Defective, art separated from the PETG. It happened back in November with the rollover when it was being dremeled away and determined to be defective at that time. My hope was that it wouldn't get worse. On the first post-assembly play it separated in a BUNCH of spots. Sigh.
My space shuttle and high speed hardtops are both perfect, fwiw.
What's my best course of action on my old glass at this point? Superglue the loose parts and turn it into a framed picture? Something else? It's a shame, it really doesn't look that bad in a game but that delamination sucks.
20201213_090617 (resized).jpg20201213_090622 (resized).jpg20201213_090631 (resized).jpg20201213_090649 (resized).jpg20201213_090652 (resized).jpgI do like the red posts. I'll probably just buy those when I tear this damn thing back down. Does anyone have a count on how many tall vs. how many short? The short are ONLY in the inner chase...right?
Quoted from fnosm:This comes up all the time in this thread.
Here is a post from 4 years ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/eight-ball-deluxe-owner-club-guests-welcome-as-well/page/15#post-3239695
Basically I'd say go 22 and 10 and you should be ok.
I was scrolling through earlier but it didn't seem like there was a firm number lol. Sounds good, I'll add 'em to the list.
As an aside, it appears PBL finally sells them so that's great news..was building another order there anyway.
Thank you!
Teardown begins...again...
I noticed also that some of my multiplier targets are sagging slightly and that allows for the potential of a stuck ball under the plastic. Is there any sort of adjustment or are there wear parts that might be affecting this?
Also, I'm sure I'm screwed buuuuut I'm missing a bell, I don't suppose there's a snowballs chance in hell I might be able to dig one up somewhere?
20201214_200232 (resized).jpg20201214_203419 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mathazar:The drop target height is adjustable by the reset bar in the assembly. I can send you some pictures later if you need them. What I usually do is tape down some cardboard over the target holes in the playfield, then raise the reset bar with one hand until the tops of the targets are touching the cardboard, and screw down/tighten the reset bar screw with the other hand.
So they're supposed to all be one height? It seemed like mine got progressively more and more sunken up to the 5X where it's really out of whack. 2X actually seems pretty level.
At any rate it's probably not terribly important right now but I figured I'd put it out there now anyway; I'll take you up on that offer when I get the new hardtop down. Thanks!
Thanks, I'll give that a look tomorrow and see if I can adjust that out. Even if I have to do it again later at least I'll understand the mechanics.
Hopefully I can get the rest of the topside torn down tomorrow. At least it looks a bit more straightforward than my high speed was.
Different guy, my hardtop started imploding with the very first play and only got worse. The final straw for me was the large ridge by the numbered balls in rows.. Hard shots hit the glass and slow ones changed direction. It made me so mad I immediately started ripping it apart. I'm almost done scraping the art off, then I need to remove some more adhesive, drop switches and target mechs, and then go sand so I can get back on schedule for applying the new hardtop when it gets here.
Finally got it all stripped off. Wanted to get in some sanding before I lost the light... and broke one of the mounts for the pop base
Can't find my naphtha but some dollar tree acetone took care of the adhesive after I got sick of burning through sanding pads. A bit more and I should be ready to shoot some clear. Gotta find that naphtha too.
IMG_20201217_153702 (resized).jpg20201217_161039 (resized).jpg20201217_163809 (resized).jpg20201217_165907 (resized).jpg20201217_171643 (resized).jpgI really hope that's the last of the issues for you. If mine gives me issues once I put the new HT down, I may launch it into the sun.
Random, but do you by chance know the size of the three green inserts directly above the ball drop mech? 3/4? One of mine was cracked so I was going to replace it..but then I knocked out the wrong one because I'm an idiot so I'm replacing all three (was probably going to do that anyway TBH, just to make sure they looked the same).
Should they be opaque or translucent?
https://www.pinballlife.com/34-round-opaque-plain-green-playfield-insert.html
https://www.pinballlife.com/34-round-transparent-plain-green-playfield-insert.html
Quoted from midcoastsurf:Sorry for the confusion. Curious what outside edge’s response has been? Would you do anything different next time? I haven’t tried a hard top yet, but definitely considering them for future projects.
My Space Shuttle had the entire playfield sanded and then cleared prior to laying the hardtop down. It seemed to lift in the middle from the drive home (colorado to kansas, on a sunny day) but pressed back down and has been fine since.
I didn't clear my high speed (I did sand it all the way down) and it's been perfect since day one.
My Ebd was a disaster but it's obvious it was defective. 'Proper prep' or not, it shouldn't have separated like it did. The playfield wasn't fully sanded and it definitely wasn't cleared.
I'm taking no chances this time. Fully sanded and cleared prior to hardtop.
I need to replace at least 3 green inserts now (if not 8..it depends on how closely they match), finish the last bit of sanding, naphtha the shit out of it, and then clear. Then the long wait for the clear to stop outgassing... and I'll definitely let that cure longer than I probably need to. If this one fails I'm torching this thing in my yard and roasting marshmallows off the fire.
I agree the OE response is good. They want to make things right and it's obvious to me that not many of these fail (although maybe EBD has a higher rate? No idea). Still, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't...frustrated.. with this experience. I was ready to cut my losses and move my EBD down the road (because I knew it was rough and because I didn't really feel like taking on another hardtop after high speed, even though it turned out great BEFORE this hardtop fiasco). I opted not to sell it and paid someone to install the hardtop and make things less...rough.
I don't think that work was done poorly, and unfortunately I don't think it would have mattered. The art separated from the plastic entirely. It is what it is. All I can do is strip it off (done!), sand it all down (almost), make sure all the inserts are nice and level (working on it, and I'm going to replace some more), clean/clear/clean/clear (yes, that fun pattern) and wait a couple of weeks.. then naphtha one last time right before the hardtop goes down--just like I did when I did high speed. From there, I'm going to take one suggestion Mathazar made and be VERY careful not to overtighten ANYTHING as I reassemble.
If it fails again in what I feel are the absolute BEST chances for success, I'll either light the damn thing on fire in anger, or I'll finally give in and do a CPR playfield swap. I'm certainly hoping it doesn't come to that and the second hardtop is the end of my story (well, aside from the cab repair / pinball pimp stencils). I was really excited to bring it home and play the hell out of it before it all went to hell. I'd like to get to that point. This was supposed to be my centerpiece and I still intend to get it there.
I'm still a big hardtop fan and I think OE is offering an awesome product. I won't rip apart a game that has a playfield I feel can be saved but my EBD was hideous and my High Speed had some scars too. I'm fine with both of those. But for example my Taxi, which only has minor pop wear and discoloring outside the factory mylar that I'm not sure if I'll be able to correct or not...I don't think I could ever hardtop it. It just feels wrong.
Pretty much at a standstill until I order and receive new inserts unfortunately. I guess I need to get that order placed.
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Side note, is it possible to buy the latch hardware for the backbox? My glass falls out when i fold the head over and that's... not great.
20201218_150450 (resized).jpgQuoted from ToucanF16:Are you sticking with the white caps/rings?
DEFINITELY. 
Quoted from Shannyman:My hardtop lifted also.I put a hardtop on a frontier and have had 0 problems with it.I wonder if the new glue they switched to has something to do with it.I think I'm done with hard tops.
Ugh. Any details about exactly how it lifted/ where/ how badly, as well as how you did the prep work?
Quoted from mbeardsley:I was sort of planning to do a hardtop on my machine one day, but all these people reporting problems have now got me thinking that maybe a playfield swap would be better.
I was thinking that a hardtop would save me time/money, but now it seems like there is a lot more prep work required than was originally advertised - and even then it might not come out right.
Not really sure why it seems to be such an issue with EBD. I did nothing more than sand and naphtha my High Speed and it's been great. No clear whatsoever.
Quoted from Shannyman:I did sand mine all the way to bare wood to get it nice and flat just like I did with frontier.I cleared both of them the same way and let them sit for 2 weeks to make sure.The frontier glue was nice and flat while the glue on the ebd was gummy.I read they changed the glue so thought it was just the way new glue was.The weird part is the artwork seemed to have separated from top of hardtop and lifted In the middle on the sides at the top.
Yeah, that's exactly what mine did. Completely separated from the PETG. The actual adhesive underneath seemed pretty decent FOR THE MOMST PART (it was lifting in the middle near the ball drops, but I have no idea why. The art was pulling from the PETG *and* it was lifting which caused a ridge) tbh. It was the fact that it separated from the PETG--EVERYWHERE, and was getting worse!--that caused me to pull mine. I had to scrape that gummy nasty mess and goo gone/acetone the shit out of it to get it to where it was sandable again. I posted some pictures both of what mine was doing as well as what I had to do to remove it, in case you missed them and are curious.
Contact Outside Edge about it and send them pictures. If they agreed mine was defective as quickly as they did, I'm sure yours will be viewed the same.
Just curious, but how long did you wait to buy your hardtop? I think I bought mine the first week or so after they were announced, so I had one of the earliest ones made. I'm hoping the kinks have been worked out now....
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/outsidedge/contact
Send Bruce a PM and see if that gets you somewhere. He'll ask for pictures via email. Perfect opportunity to say you already emailed and didn't get a response....lol
I was definitely excited to do EBD and jumped early for that reason..but yeah, it's been a swift kick in the nuts for sure. If this second hardtop fails, I guess I'm doing a swap too. Really don't want to do that though, so..I hope this one is successful.
No problem! Keep us posted on yours as well! Would definitely be interested in seeing what yours did at some point if you're able, if for no reason other than pure curiosity. Good luck!
Quoted from Shannyman:Hey guys. I just got off phone with Bruce. He explained that the people who was doing his artwork took out the chemical that helps it adhere to the plastic without telling him.He said he has since figured out what they were doing and changed who is doing the color for him. He also told me to let everybody know that if anybody has problems not to hesitate to let him know and he will make it right. It good to see such a great company that takes care of its customers. Thank you Bruce
Holy crap! Those people need BEATEN. I agree, Bruce and Keith are great and I still love hardtops. I'll be a little gunshot on deciding to do the next one I'm sure but once my ebd goes down smoothly and all is well a lot of that nervousness will go away. My high speed and Space Shuttle are both great!
Quoted from Pinball4Rob:How long ago did you guys get your hardtops? I got one about 2 months ago and have not gotten around to doing it yet. Now I'm nervous.
Mine was one of the first groupings of them made. First week.
Quoted from midcoastsurf:This is a vendor's worst nightmare. Changes made to their product they built their reputation on...and they didn't even know. Sounds like they are taking care of their customers.
Right? Talk about getting done dirty by the printers! I'm just glad they got it figured out. I had no doubts OE would do anything they could to make it right and stand behind their product. I need to get off my lazy ass and get mine cleared so i can apply this thing!
Quoted from seeburg220:Also, why do some people change out the 555 style lampholders for the older bayonet? I would have thought the bayonets would have been worse.
Nothing wrong with wedge style in general, it's more that the ones used in EBD in particular are among the worst ever. Cheap, flimsy crap to begin with and now 40 years old. That's why people replace them. I broke two just trying to change bulbs prior to this hardtop adventure.
The twist style (with PCBs) used on the 1984 version are the best option but afaik there's only one way to obtain those for the two earlier releases: salvage them from the 1984 cab and transplant.
Quoted from phillyfan64:Yeah it’s too bad someone hasn’t remade those PCB boards. The old wedge style on EBD are just awful. I broke a bunch also. Trying to install LEDs in those will leave you with very sore fingers. I’m glad I had all of mine replaced with the playfield swap.
I still have some 30 or so to do. I guess since weather is turning against me I should probably start doing those. Won't be shooting clear any time soon.
Weird that you're experiencing floatiness with that kind of pitch. Your front levellers are slammed? That should be crazy fast.
My new inserts came. I'm in hell. Didn't realize SOME of these were opaque with others being translucent...but the translucent ones seem too light... UGH.
20201229_145610 (resized).jpgThis is a *TALL* ask, but I don't suppose anyone has a ....roached.... playfield, maybe from a swap, that they could potentially heat up and press out those green inserts from? I ordered the translucent ones as well as opaque from Marco, just to see if any of those are at all closer, but I highly doubt it. Just trying to see what options I may have. I'd also be plenty interested in ordering from someone else if they had the appropriate color to match. I'm really regretting busting out the one now..that was stupid.
Quoted from Lovef2k:I might. Will let you know.
No worries if not. I'll punch out all of the greens and do something different if that's what's needed.
What's realy a bummer is that the one I punched out wasn't even the right damn one. So I still have one filled with cracks that needs punched out. So very dumb on my part.
Quoted from Lovef2k:I think I have some that I already extracted years ago. It's easy to reinstall them w slow set epoxy.
Yeah I think i can get new ones in okay but yikes, its apparently really hard to match these...
How in God's name does anyone get these flush? I feel like I've been sanding forever.
Added bonus, had to fix some damage. Got a bit too aggressive with the dremel while cleaning out remnants of the one I punched out without heating (dumbass) so I had to add some filler, then one of the others pulled out a splinter while I was removing after test fitting (weird) just going to lightly sand after they're dry and repeat as needed until it's not hideous.
20210109_173829 (resized).jpg20210109_163549 (resized).jpg20210109_170855 (resized).jpgQuoted from Gatecrasher:FYI The later versions of EBD have connectors for the drop banks making them much easier to remove.
And you can get most/all of the Molex connectors at Big Daddy.
So no one on here has ever seen the Mirco EBD playfields?
I'm probably going to have to buy one then.
Yeah, seems I got the frustrating bastard of the bunch..but I definitely like the 81 cabinet style/construction over the 84. It is what it is. I'll molex the stupid things and fix my screw-up outside the machine.
I'm not much for playfield swaps -- the entire concept scares the shit out of me -- but I've heard good things about Mirco. About the extent of my knowledge of them, unfortunately. CPR released the "corrected/improved" EBD playfield last year IIRC. If my hardtop doesn't work out this time around, I guess that's what I'll be going after.
Yeah, I'm kind of regretting redoing the GI sockets. The ones I went with are too tall to accommodate incandescents :\
I had to go with domeless 1SMD warm LEDs because everything else in the inner chase was too tall. The rest of the GI was 2SMD warm. I'm too lazy to redo it at this point so it's going to be that again when (if?) I get it back together.
20201214_124015 (resized).jpgQuoted from mbeardsley:I had standard 555 bulbs in my EBD forever, but when it sat next to my new MBr, it just looked so dim and depressed in comparison.
Now it's all bright and happy...
Of course...now my WH20 looks sad, so I guess it will have to get the LED treatment soon.
I can't *NOT* LED my games. Just. Can't. Do. It.
IMG_20200817_194339 (resized).jpgI ordered both the A4762 and the A2915s below it. Whatever is installed in there now is still too tall. I'll check to make sure they're the A4762s and not the A2915s.
I need to place an order with PBR anyway.
Quoted from mbeardsley:I think my wife is planning for that phrase to be on my tombstone...
Lmao. No doubt. Mine is usually PBL, not PBR, but I digress.
I didn't install 'em but I had both A4762 and A2915s shipped to my friend who was going to put those in specifically for the chase. However, looking at them, they certainly appear to be flat/staple sockets which we both know would be the wrong ones for the chase. I'll order another set of A4762s and swap them out.
//Edit what did you end up doing for the eight ball socket, which sits directly under the edge of the target bank? It's got a laydown socket and the best I can seem to find is this: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/E-120-99
But I don't think that's right either.
Half tempted to just space it comfortably out some and use a flex bulb from Comet. I imagine that is probably a real nightmare to reach with the game fully assembled.
Quoted from phillyfan64:I think that’s the exact laydown socket I used for next to the drop target.
As for the chase lights and GI, the staple down was the first ones we tried. Too high. Then we tried one from Marco that has the same Bally equivalent # as PBR.( Bally E120-81). But the PBR and Marco’s are slightly different. Marco’s are too high. It has to be PBR’s A4762. It was frustrating and we wasted a lot of time but we finally got it right. Dave Macy did my swap. I’m glad we changed them out. The original 555’s were old and brittle and several were broken. It was well worth the effort.
lol, my bag of A4762s have been located, so I'll swap those all out when they're here.
This EBD may be the death of me before it's all said and done...
I really need to place one of my orders so I can get these stupid mechs out of here. They're making everything else exceedingly difficult to work with..and I really don't want to paint myself in a corner by removing switch stacks. I've got enough of a damn mess as it is.
Yeah, I think I'm more or less going to do the same.
I think I'm going with Molex + Z-connectors though..kinda like a modern Stern would. Thoughts? Any particular reason you went with those plugs instead?
Quoted from Mathazar:Which one (the big one with 7 targets or the in-line one for the multipliers)? The former's Molex is factor installed on my '84. The in-line one I added for the solenoid power.
I'm doing 4x4pin molex for the rack drops because that's how my wires are bundled. I'll use another 4pin molex pair on each of the coils. Going to mark the sides of the z adapters with different colors of sharpie.
received_743837003200845 (resized).jpegThis is test mode. Attract mode has a few (yellow arrows up top, specials, eight ball--all three of which I think are correct--and the top one on the middle as well as the 4th one down in the middle which is clearly not working *period* that don't light up when I let it sit. A few are dimmer, etc. The socket to the bottom bonus (green) isn't in...because I don't have one right now.
For those middle ones and any that are dimmer... hopefully I can diagnose those. Not bad only having a few to address.
//edit just loose sockets. I'll see if I can fix them the next time I pull this out (when molex arrives)
20210126_162716 (resized).jpg
I really wanted to just do one connector but it seemed either really difficult or completely impossible with wires routed how they are. Oh well.
Does anyone know if the blue 3/4" inserts are available anywhere? I can't seem to find any plain/translucent ones. I can find the bigger 1" ones, but not the 3/4".
If I can't replace mine, then whatever..but there's glue slopped up under them and that keeps the light from fully illuminating them. Figured since I'm stalled on clearing anyway, might be a good opportunity to take another close look at any *other* inserts I don't like.
Yeah, I'm sure I could undo a bit more, further down the loom in order to do the one connector. I probably should, really, but Meh.
Quoted from seeburg220:Curious about the people installing these under playfield connectors- since you've owned the game, how many times has this been an issue of needing to remove the drop target assembly? Short of a one time playfield swap, or replacing broken drop target, why are you doing this mod? Seems like a lot of work for what?
I can't imagine it's a frequent need...but someday it'll be necessary and I'll be thrilled to not have to pull the entire PF. Plus, they're causing me significant grief right now when I need to clear this thing and lay down the hardtop.
I'm going to just do the 4pin connectors rather than work down the loom. I don't feel like using a bunch of zip ties to redo that nasty dirty bundle of crap.
Side note, got inserts sanded to 500 last night (that's where I found I'm not thrilled with the blues) and got most of the shooter lane sanded down in prep for clear. This morning I threw down the hardtop to encourage myself to not light it on fire in my basement.
20210127_094702 (resized).jpgI'm not thrilled with how a lot of the inserts feel but I don't *think* it's particularly problematic. They feel slightly....'bumpy' which is irritating. But less of removing each and every one of them, reseating and/or slightly sanding down the bottom and then regluing, I'm not sure what else to do. I guess my hope is that the cutout for the clear where the printed art has art+adhesive is enough to accommodate this.
To those who have actually successfully hardtopped their EBD: did you honestly get every single one of your inserts completely flat, to the point where you could run your hand across and feel nothing but a smooth surface?
Speaking of coils and whatnot, I noticed my bank shot and 8ball drops aren't popping up on boot anymore, not that I'm particularly concerned about it *right now*. The main drop bank is working fine (although it's now hooooooooooooorribly out of adjustment with switches), but not the other two.
Oh well, molex arrives today so I can finally break them loose of the playfield.
Quoted from phillyfan64:Wow that’s a lot of connectors. That’s pretty much how I figured the 81 needs to be done. I’m not so sure I want to tackle that! Great job.
I'm sure it could have been done differently but I figured this was the most direct and least complicated way.
It really wasn't all that bad to be honest. The only frustrating part for me was that I put a couple in backwards and had to bend tabs back and re-insert, which was annoying. That and my molex crimper never does a good job of crimping the jacket so I have to follow up with pliers to tighten that one spot.
received_270644537807575 (resized).jpegAll done. These things are easy to adjust... once they're pulled loose from the playfield!
I think maybe now I'll mess with the pops/pop lighting so I can replace my bases with the new 3D printed ones from yfz450
I think I'll molex those also so that I can remove the entire assembly and adjust outside the game. Seems worth the effort.
Quoted from scampcamp:Appreciate that.. my wife has relatives near Topeka. Interesting town. We were there about 4 years ago for a family reunion & was woken up by a earthquake. Do they happen there often?
We also picked up a Firepower & a F-14 from wife's uncle near Creighton Mo.
Topeka is certainly....interesting... for sure.
I don't think I've ever felt an earthquake here though. Lots of tornadoes!
F14 is one I had and sold.. kinda miss it, but can't keep em all!
Quoted from scampcamp:"F14 is one I had and sold.. kinda miss it, but can't keep em all"
Isn't that the truth... I am going to sell Fireball ll so there's room for Who Dunnit which is at my friend Don (Grumpy here)
I do have a EBD but the cabinet needs a full restore. Playfield is nice, boards all bullet proofed & new backglass but if the 1 I am looking at isn't to pricey I may consider selling the 1 I have.
I can put 8 machines in a row in the basement but that's pretty tight.
Just dragged Getaway out tonight. My row is looking kind of sad at the moment (Cactus Jack's and EBD are on the other side, next to my neo geo). Once shuttle is paid for I can go grab my high speed and buy the metallica premium at the same time. That leaves me at 7 which is really where I need to be. 8 is doable but a bit too far into my wife's area, really. I'm going to try staying at 7 for a bit. I moved Taxi over for now. Think I'll put high speed on the right and Metallica where Shuttle is.. modern, sys11, sys11, wpc, modern--decent feng shui I think.
20210220_185024 (resized).jpg20210220_185359 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mathazar:Here's the part number, but I've never seen it in stock at Marco's or anywhere else: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3868
If you want to venture out of the US, here's a used one in the Netherlands: https://www.flippersloop.nl/en_GB/a-56145420/various/glass-lock-assembly-a-3868-bally-used/#description[quoted image]
Marco finally had this in stock so I grabbed one. Of course, I didn't also grab a 1-1/8 lock so I still need to hit the hardware store...
I can't figure out what I'm missing for securing it on the left side. Can someone share a pic?
Also, my top trim piece ALWAYS catches on the left corner when I remove the backglass... why? It's driving me insane!
Screenshot_20210226-162620_Gallery (resized).jpgScreenshot_20210226-162601_Gallery (resized).jpg20210226_162832 (resized).jpg20210226_162827 (resized).jpg20210226_162914 (resized).jpg20210226_163008 (resized).jpgQuoted from vec-tor:I believe it has a thick round washer along with a truss head screw.
Check your black trim width... you might have to trim or move it over a bit.
Yeah, I guess I should have figured the left side was nothing terribly special. I'll dig around and see what I can find. And I'll play around with the trim a bit. The old glass doesn't do it
Quoted from cngizbleevng:I appreciate your response, but which board is the power supply rectifier board? And where do I connect the voltmeter's probes to? The link shows the boards in the backbox, but I don't know if they correspond to my 1984 version, and none of the labels in the link's photo refer to a rectifier board.
[quoted image]
Rectifier is in the cabinet below the playfield, not in the head. And they're usually in rough shape.
Quoted from Ballypin:It prevents the backglass from being lifted out when in the locked position.
Also from falling out, which mine does, every time the head is folded down.
Quoted from phillyfan64:Aha, thank you. I should probably get a new lock.
Having the glass lock assembly present may be enough to keep the glass from falling out, I just know that with it not installed in my game at all I have to remove my glass before I lower the head. Not that it moves around a lot, but I just want to be done with that requirement.
Quoted from Mathazar:ksuwildcatfan - do you still need close-up pictures of this? My EBD is the 1984 with the swinging backglass door, but I could take some pix of one of my other early Bally SS's which should be the same as the '81 EBD.
Nah, nbd for right now. I'm going to have to remove it all again to paint the head anyway so there's plenty of time for me to scrounge up some working parts. Working on replacing my blue inserts today and I finished replacing the second 28-pin lamp board connector. My $35 ratcheting crimper from PBL can f itself (didn't realize it didn't do .100!) but the one I bought from GPE worked like a charm. Made this easy as pie. The inserts, on the other hand....I hate these things.
20210228_155445 (resized).jpg20210228_165734 (resized).jpg20210228_165811 (resized).jpg20210228_165827 (resized).jpg20210228_170310 (resized).jpg20210228_173012 (resized).jpgQuoted from Lovef2k:Yikes what are the files for?
Stuff. And things.
Sandpaper takes waaaaaay too long to file down the shoulders and without doing that, they don't fit.. at all...
Hate these damn things.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Ok, you scared me for a minute, I thought you might be cleaning out the holes in the PF to make them fit. Installing new inserts is a challenge, especially when they have a die letter stamped on the top of them. Do you have a Dremel with a drum sander attachment? I think this would less effort than using a hand file. If you don't have a Dremel yet, it's a "must have" for doing pin work like this. In my experience, it's impossible to get a new insert to sit flush with the PF surface and need to sand the tops down until flush. As I told you earlier, a variable speed sander at low speed works the best. Don't let the inserts get hot from sanding as this will cause the to bubble or raise in the center.
How is the blue color of these new inserts? I see from your earlier pics that you got the same part numbers that Marco just gave me for the new batch. Are the 3/4 and 1 inch insert colors consistent?
I did use the round file a bit to clean up some of the holes on the PF that were fighting me but I'm NOT cutting into the shoulder that should keep the inserts from falling through. I started off GENTLY filing the tops of the new inserts with the flat file but switched to 220 grit sandpaper because it just works..better. I'm still using the flat file to cut the bottom side of the inserts enough for them to not require a TON of additional sanding topside to be flush against the playfield.
I generally sand the sides a bit as well, if not to help them fit a bit less tightly, then to give them some tack for adhesive to grab on to.
I'm willing to admit that I may have no idea what the hell I'm doing I do have a dremel and it got away from me when I was cleaning up the insert that I broke out (and left the edges still glued in)... so I'm trying to avoid touching it again lol
The 3/4 and 1" inserts do match. Imo it's more of a "light blue" than the original dark blue but I think they'll look okay. Sure beats cracked and/or glue-covered crap like I had.
Temps are supposed to be in the 60s all week. I'm hoping to have this ready to clear in the next couple of days. Earplugs arrived today and I think those will work just fine crammed into the sockets. I'm ready to get moving on this damn thing.
Speaking of slings...all of these switches (including those in the chase) are nasty. Is this the correct one to order? https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-slingshot-score-switch.html
I looked through my manual hoping for a switch listing with a part number but I'm either really blind or it's not there. Also what are the resistors I need to order? From the sling pair I assume the three-prong switch with the resistor is for the sling solenoid itself and the other switch could be just fine with just a two-prong switch and is for scoring... right? The switches in the chase appear to be three-prong so I assume I'd be buying at least 4 total 3-prong as linked above for those. I have 5 of the 2-prong already.
Check out the ground braid used to connect the two switches in pic two...
20210301_181454 (resized).jpg20210301_181446 (resized).jpg20210301_180622 (resized).jpg20210301_181416 (resized).jpg
Oh hell, that IS a diode. It just looked so discolored and sh1tty that I assumed it was a resistor. Doesn't really even make sense for it to be anything other than a diode though.. doh! Good news, I have 37 million of those.
Quoted from vec-tor:I would try wood dowels & some epoxy...
I have done this technique & have been O.K. with the results.
I crammed some quikwood epoxy putty in some of the particularly bad holes, since I had it already. I'll see how that looks tomorrow. Nothing lost if it sucks. I don't suppose this stuff could potentially fix my battered corners? My wife has some white resin she's not going to use, so maybe that's a better bet.
//edit
I'll be damned if this stuff doesn't seem like it's going to work just fine for the corners. I put some on this morning and have mostly filed it flush (still a bit more to go, and I might put a bit more on the top, although I'd almost rather have it a bit LOW than a bit HIGH so I might not). It's by no means 'pretty'... but it's better than it was, and it feels PLENTY solid.
20210302_110814 (resized).jpg20210302_110820 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Gotpins:Does anyone in here have a used set of plastics for an EBD. I'm trying to piece together a pulled playfield that is missing all its topside parts. The playfield is worn to bare wood. So the plastics don't need to be perfect, just better than nothing. Any topside parts would be of interest. Let me know what you have. Thanks!
I replaced my entire set so I'm sure I have several
Quoted from Mathazar:Depends on your long-term goals. If this is a keeper/forever pin for you (as was mine for me), I'd go the whole lot....cabinet restore/repaint, total shop job on all assemblies, go thru all the boards and repin connectors, and lay down a hardtop. If you think you might pass this pin onward after a year or two of playing, then shop it nicely and don't do anything else. Backbox front paint job aside, it's a pretty good looking player pin cosmetically that will still command some good $$ when you go to sell it.
+1
Looks like the playfield has a decent amount of planking? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
Regardless, I agree..you need to decide on what you want. Fully restored? Well then there's your answer. Start with the cab and go outwards. Solid player? Maybe touch up the trim on the head (or don't? who cares?) and play the crap out of it. It's less rough than mine was and I'm dealing with all sorts of nightmares on the bottom-side to boot. If yours is a solid player, you've got lots and lots of options. If it's rough like mine... you still have options, just get ready to fix a lot of wear. Mine clearly got played...a lot.
Welp. I think I've molexed just about everything I possibly could: all three drop banks, both slings and the corresponding switches (as soon as I order the new ones), and the saucer today. I might still do the 30pt switches in the chase but at this point...probably not.
The epoxy in the corners came out fairly nice--all I was really hoping for, to be honest. I think tomorrow I'll plug all the lamp sockets with earplugs, naphtha once more, and try spraying some clear. I'm ready to get this show on the road.
20210302_145443 (resized).jpg20210302_161714 (resized).jpgSo.....clearing was a disaster. Looked terrible the day I did it so I brought it inside and let it sit. Looked better the next day so I was encouraged again..until I went to wetsand. I overdid it and started to take clear off... so I finally said screw it and sanded it all back off. Dropping it at a friend's next week (I hope) for a professional clear job. No more rattle can BS.
My dad finished my rotisserie so I took it as an opportunity to fix some god-awful soldering on one of the lamp leads for the space shuttle that's leaving (100% successful!) and then I slapped the now-cleared EBD playfield on. I'll put my mechs back on it tomorrow, then wait maybe a few more days on letting the clear outgas... then it's hardtop and reassembly time. New toy in the background of pic 1
20210321_151039 (resized).jpg20210321_171646 (resized).jpg20210321_173003 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Lovef2k:I like the rotisserie, nice job dad!
Yeah, it came out nice. I need to add a shelf on it and then revisit my locking mechanism (I'm just using a couple of screws/bolts -- I'd like to change those to carriage bolts, I think, and then maybe put two per side, just to really reinforce it). Still need to add the casters I bought, too..but I need some screws/washers that will actually fit in the gigantic-a$$ holes on the caster mounts.
As for the playfield...how exactly do I know when it's done outgassing? Should there be NO smell whatsoever when I put my nose right up next to it?
Quoted from vec-tor:Yes it does... The first picture has the spring in the correct orientation.
----- You just need to snap the two spring loops over the two prongs...
I feel like I'm missing something in plain sight...but which two prongs? The two on the right side of the first picture (my left) are on the same 'bar' and putting a tension spring on it doesn't really do anything. What exactly does this spring accomplish? The spring that's still on the assembly seems to keep proper tension on the kicker arm, at least as far as I can tell.
Quoted from frunch:Just took a few pics of mine for ya:[quoted image][quoted image]
Weird. Yeah, that's where I was thinking.. doesn't seem like it really does anything?
At any rate, I'll set mine up the same. Thanks for clarifying!
Quoted from frunch:I remember playing around with that mech when i was shopping out my EBD, trying to understand the purpose of that spring. I still don't really get it, lol
Sure doesn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell but it's back in place now at any rate
Still seems kind of weird that there's a spring on separate arms of the same bar, at least to me, but I appreciate the explanation.
I wish I knew for sure if my clear was done outgassing and therefore ready to hardtop. I'm nervous about doing this too soon, but damn it I'm ready to get moving on this thing!
Quoted from Lovef2k:I hope you don't have any further issues.
Me too! And I hope I let it cure long enough. I set it out all day in the sun yesterday and then for a couple hours today. I think I was told it would be ready to do last weekend regardless, buttttttttttt....
Quoted from mbeardsley:I guess that I don't understand the point of doing both a clearcoat and a hardtop.
If you are going to do a hardtop, what does the clear do for you?
And if the playfield is nice enough to clear coat, why would you want a hardtop?
Clear is two-fold AFAIK:
1) seal in any contaminants so they don't come in contact with the hardtop
2) make the inserts as glossy as possible for best presentation through the insert windows
Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone who knows otherwise...
Also, FWIW, I didn't clear my High Speed when I hardtopped it. I sanded it all the way down and high polished the inserts. I've had absolutely no issues with it since the day I installed it.
But I'm taking no chances with this one, given what it's put me through thus far. Not worth the risk, and it only cost me $100 to have it done. Worth it.
The hardtop isn’t thick at all. I’ve not noticed any issues with things like that and I own a space shuttle (Well, for now) and a high speed. Sanding the art off probably takes away the equivalent of laying the hardtop down.
Hardtops aren’t for everyone but I like the way they play. If you end up doing the hardtop you can always swap if you don’t end up liking it. And so long as your playfield doesn’t get absolutely trashed in the process I bet you could still sell the bare hardtopped playfield for at least some money back if you ended up swapping. JMO.
I will say... I hate dremeling out the rollover holes. I ALWAYS butcher it. The dremel kept slipping out so I ended up with several marred spots. Ugh.
729A5D2F-68A2-4214-A5DB-68A7F2C4D0BE (resized).jpeg5ABD3DA3-9C67-4F2A-9AA0-8E7D4FC87DA6 (resized).jpeg673056DD-0DE9-4263-B780-CAE1D403B1C9 (resized).jpegQuoted from Lovef2k:The roll overs is the part I'm dreading. I will be hitting up the experts for this lol.
A dremel works great...but you need to make sure you have a really steady hand or you'll end up being stupid, like me. I tried some novus on it, but it doesn't matter. It's not going to help. It is what it is at this point.
Quoted from Mathazar:Looking good! I'll be encouraged for you.....
Haha! I put two bad gouges in the hardtop and that really pissed me off. Other than that I "just" need to knock off all this:
Install LED boards
12 ball light... Sucks (replace socket/check connector)
7 ball light doesn't ever light (replace socket/check connector)
1 and 2 ball drop targets don't want to stay up
C lane doesn't light (check connector)
D lane switch is.... bent to hell and back. Needs serious adjustment
Outhole switch doesn't register, needs adjusted
Outhole kicker isn't working
Rollover needs more adjustment for quick hits
Sling score switches aren't long enough, will need replaced (again)
Chase switches still need replaced
Finish installing topside plastics -- remove and install the new ones I had cut for under the return lanes
Install flippers -- use parts to "downgrade"
Either buy or bend my own brackets for under flippers
Figure out why right pop won't light or work
Adjust spoons on ALL pops
Apron fits like shit and needs secured
I was hoping to not pull the playfield and put it back on the rotisserie again but given all that's still needing work I think I will. Hopefully the next test knocks a lot of this off the list.
Welp..Got the plastics all on...and now it won't finish booting. Before that it was making a clicking noise (in unison with the credit lamp) that sounded like the turn signal on a car. Ugh.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Clicking is probably the SEB. How many mpu flashes?
Clicking is indeed the SEB. With my X-pin anti flicker boards in it clicks like this. With them removed the clicking is gone.
Something caused F4 to blow so I replaced that. It had fast blo fuses though and I only have slow blo. I assume this isn't acceptable. With a 5ASB in there it boots and will start a game. No trough kickout, no saucer kickout (although it will eject a ball on boot), and the main bank consistently drops ball 1 and/or 2. All three pops work (although the spoons definitely need adjusted).
I hadn't installed flippers yet because I wasn't ready to downgrade them yet..could that be influencing some of this weird behavior?
I'm assuming my molex-fest is the reason for these woes. Guess I'll go through and check each crimp. I assume that's also part of my issue with the lamps as I replaced the connectors at the board AND soldered in new sockets in a number of spots.
Yes, everything worked prior to teardown. I didn't change the SEB bulb other than during diagnosis and I switched to a different incandescent to see if anything changed (it didn't).
Agreed re: leaving anti flicker boards out for now. I'll see what progress I can make in the next few days, using your reply as a guide (thanks!). Hopefully I can get something going in the right direction.
Lamp behavior isn't quite the same in attract vs lamp test which is also weird but maybe bad solder job / bad crimp at the board could do that?
note: anti flicker boards NOT installed in this video.
Quoted from play_pinball:Finally replaced my defective hardtop while Pinside was down. What a complete mess getting all the adhesive off but it’s much better now, both in looks and the way it plays.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Can confirm, it's a royal pain in the ass. I'm super jealous of how yours came out. Mine isn't aligned very well in spots and that makes my rack lights look kind of crappy. Very smart of you to have outlined all the inserts ahead of time.
I'm waiting on a new SEB to hopefully fix my solenoid woes. Still need to place my order for new flipper coils so I can rebuild/"downgrade" my flippers. And then I need to fix all my new lamp woes.
I'm close... But irritatingly far away.
IMG_20210402_204639_1 (resized).jpgQuoted from phillyfan64:Great job! I like those red flippers.
Agreed, those are a nice touch!
Oh god, lifting... Again?!
Man that black flipper looks good too. I might just order some more with all these stupid coils.
The flipper work does look a touch messy (not your fault) but the original linear crap needs to die, so...
I'm sneaking in and stealing your lamp boards. I'm so insanely jealous of everyone who has those. Your game looks great!
Quoted from trimoto:I'm getting ready to install my first hard topper wish me luck . I'm debating on whether to clear coat the playfield or not . Install instructions say to clear inserts has anyone done one without clear coat?
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I don't suppose you know any automotive guys around town do you? If you can get someone to spray it -- in a booth, with professional equipment -- for a decent price I HIGHLY recommend it. I didn't clear my High Speed before I hardtopped (I polished the inserts) but it has starburst inserts. With these being flat/clear inserts, IMO clearing is more necessary.
Smart move on outlining inserts. One suggestion I have: When you go to lay down the hardtop and you have it secured so you can peel off the protective backing so you can actually stick the hardtop down.... BEFORE you start peeling that off, with everything secured in place, shine a flashlight through all those lights in the middle (for the rack) and make sure they're lined up really well. Mine isn't great and now I have to look at it constantly. It's going to be the death of me, I'm almost certain.
Quoted from Mathazar:I've done it both ways and had it turn out great. On my Mata Hari, I opted for no clear and I wet sanded the inserts - turned out great and still looks and plays like new 18 months later. On my EBD, I had installation issues related to a manufacturing defect with the hardtop's adhesive and had to re-do it (OE took care of me). When I replaced the failed EBD hardtop with the corrected EBD hardtop, this time I did clear but I didn't go the automotive route. Instead, I just used rattle-can clear and it worked out just fine.
I'm not sure I'd go to the length of doing 2PAC or contracting out an automotive place to do a clear coat job for a hardtop install. It seems overkill to me, but that's the great thing about this hobby - many different ways to skin a cat and inject your own preferences.
To me, it was well worth the $100 I paid to have it done, given the overall frustration I had with trying to shoot the rattle can clear myself. It was...bad. $100 farmed out, and glad I did. To someone who can put down a decent coat of clear from a rattle can...probably unnecessary. I'm unfortunately not that guy. lol
Welp. I have a technically functional game now. The D lane has some weird shit going on and I've got 3 lights to research (two won't light, one stays dimly lit). The pops aren't quite right and the always-awful star rollover is..awful.
That said, it functions. Definitely a step forward from where I was.
PXL_20210413_201525142 (resized).jpgNo sooner did I put the glass on (just so I could leave it for now)... Right flipper doesn't work. Ffs lol
Quoted from trimoto:Always look for the simple things first.
It started working again while I was testing everything. No idea. Going to order some new flipper cabinet buttons; mine look like crap.
Quoted from trimoto:What more quick question do you think I should be concerned about the chipping around these inserts if so how should I repair it?
Thanks in advance.......
[quoted image]
You could fill it and sand level, but I would probably just leave it be. Imo there's far more opportunity for headaches by filling than not. I had one insert I had to rework (got carried away with a dremel after I busted the insert by accident) and it was a royal pain in the ass to get sorted. Ended up great, but it took a good amount of work to get it there.
Quoted from trimoto:10 -4
This whole project has been a pain in the butt had to pull all these inserts out because they were loose jiggling around polished then reglue
Broke a couple along the way
It's like a crazy amount of time I have in restoring the jewelry on this table what pain.
I'm sure it will be appreciated in the end ....
Don't feel bad, I was teetering on just selling mine because I knew it was super rough when a friend offered to hardtop it for me. Seemed fine and we agreed on 3-400 to do it. Ended up costing 6 with all the extra time he put into it and then the hardtop was defective so I ended up having to do it myself anyway lol. It's not been an enjoyable project, tbh. There are so many wallowed out screw holes on this thing, it's not even funny.
In retrospect I probably should have just swapped this one. This playfield is in horrible condition: huge chunks were missing from both upper corners, tons of wallowed out screw holes, some... Interesting holes drilled clear through to fix wallowed out holes above.. it was a mess. I definitely wouldn't have had anything to sell at the end to offset costs.
I like hardtops and I don't trust my skill level to consider a swap. And this was supposed to be a cheaper option, even though for me it didn't really end up that way.
My high speed hardtop came out awesome, with almost no real issues to speak of.
To each their own, but I have almost zero interest in doing a swap. That said, I likely won't ever tackle a hardtop on an old Bally game again either.
Tl;dr: Another long, droning post about nothing. 
Also, prior to about 3/4 of the way through this hardtop, I didn't even own a rotisserie. Call it laziness if you will, but I don't think you're pulling off a swap without at least one rotisserie (and probably better off with two). Granted, there are quickie builds that *most* people should be able to knock out, but I did my High Speed leaned up against walls, on my dining room table, etc. That worked fine for my needs, although I did bang some things up, like edges of coils here and there, in the process. I did a lot of this EBD hardtop the same way until my dad built the SkyPilot rotisserie and I was able to put that into use toward the end of this. My friend who did HT #1 on this EBD did use a rotisserie he fashioned together. I'm two years into this hobby and that's from first purchase to where I am now, with 25ish machines having come and gone and two hardtop projects completed (I'm giving myself credit for EBD being 'done', but I still have bugs to work out). For all intents and purposes I'm still a novice in this hobby, with a LOT to learn. A swap seems extremely daunting to me. Maybe someday. Hell, it might end up being the Meteor I sold to my friend who immediately bought a replacement playfield to swap but is now drowning in projects and..life.
Really I just think it comes down to motivation, skillset, and overall opinion when you start talking HT vs. swap. Most guys I know who do swaps don't just take the playfield they order and install it -- they go through a ridiculous amount of work having it cleared and perfected on top of that (just add that cost right on top). You don't have to do that with a hardtop because what you lay down is what's going to be played on, for better or for worse. As for clearing after sanding, that really comes down to preference. But most people who DON'T have monkey fingers, like me, can probably lay down a suitable coat with a rattle can prior to laying down the HT.
And while most purists *hate* hardtops, how they play, how they look, etc... there are other guys, like me, who *LOVE* the way they look and play. My only knock on them is probably something that's my own damn fault, and that's how absolutely imperative it is to double and triple and freaking quadruple check alignment before install because it seems like no matter what I do, I end up with *something* out of alignment at the end of the project and that drives my OCD insane. It happened on High Speed (only on one insert that I can see) as well as this EBD (lots of off-center alignment on the rack to the right, but not sure there would have been any way to line them ALL up). Overall I think my EBD looks great with the hardtop down, and it's certainly better than the utter crapfest it started out as (new backglass, new plastics, a hardtop, new displays, and a hardtop..gee, hard to imagine it NOT being a vast improvement), but there are some things that will drive me absolutely crazy forever. It is what it is. I still need to repaint my cab/apron and CLEAN the inside (seriously, it's gross) someday down the road, in addition to fixing all the buggy nonsense I created from tearing down to do the hardtop. THAT will be another unfun adventure for me.
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Quoted from slochar:I've never used one and swapped 40+ playfields. If you do this as a living, sure, get one, but hobbyist level? Nah.
My biggest issue with hardtops is people are sanding off artwork on playfields that would normally be considered just fine to wax and play. Once you sand off the artwork you're hardtop or nothing. (or fake whitewood like that guy with the fake quicksilver whitewood a while ago)
40+ swaps without a rotisserie, now that's impressive!
To me, there are two lines of thought on this one:
1) It's their property and they can do as they please, up to and including torching it in their yard. While we all appreciate these machines and hold them in high esteem, it's certainly arguable as to whether these are things to preserve FOREVER (IE old art, etc) or if in 100 years it will all just be a forgotten relic of the past.
2) None of us truly "own" any of these machines and we are merely holding them for the next guy. We owe it to the machines to do things that would improve upon them throughout our time with them (and while I feel hardtops improve upon the experience, it's hard to argue against the notion that serious damage is done to the topside of the playfield).
Personally I won't hardtop anything that doesn't have BAD art topside. My high speed was rreeeealllyyyy iffy on that line. It likely could have been saved by someone with a true gift for touching up playfields. But it would have been far, far above my skill set. I would sincerely hope no one would do a hardtop on a game that looked NICER than that. But again it comes down to 1 and 2 above. My EBD was AWFUL topside. BAD touchups under mylar, horrible hackjob 'fixes' throughout (just check out that lovely star post next to the bonus bank in the picture above!).. There absolutely wasn't any saving of this playfield. HT or swap, one of them needed done. The great thing about having done it this way? I can still swap if this ends up not being the right path, and nothing other than my time and $ will have been lost.
Quoted from Mathazar:FWIW, my rotisserie breaks down into about 8 pieces, small enough to store in the black and red plastic storage bin (behind the blue Kobalt tool box). Plus the storage bin keeps all of the clamps, blocks, and pads I use for securing the playfield to the rotisserie. So much easier to work with vs. saw horses or just using a table top! In this case, I left the playfield plugged in and operational to do so some fine tuning in my Mata Hari.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Your rotisserie looks like it takes up a hell of a lot less space than mine does, but mine also has storage which is nice. My dad is actually installing a giant pull-out shelf right now. I need to evaluate how to disassemble and store mine (if that's even possible) because it takes up an entire spot where a machine could go, and I don't really have the room either.
I can't believe you're able to run the wires across to have it plugged in while on the rotisserie. I love that! I need to see if mine can do the same. Maybe that will help me set up these stupid ass pop spoons that I hate so much.
Quoted from slochar:Well I'm old and have been collecting since 1988. So a little over 1.2 or so a year. Some are really easy because it's remove everything, clear or send to clearcoat guy, comes back, everything goes back in really quickly (since all the holes are correct) The record was trizone, receive playfield from ebay on friday, remove all parts, touchup and clear saturday, move all parts from my rebuilt playfield to the cleared one on Sunday. Done. (varathane was the go to at that time, not 2pac..... roughly 15 years later and it's still fine.)
Sometimes I let a swap sit for years (I need to get back to my 8 ball.... going on 7 years or so, now the record holder for longest time....) But like I said it's a hobby, not a business.
If you come up with a system that works for you that's what works for you. I don't have space to even store a rotisserie so I use the games next to the game to do the swaps. Definitely made an error on Mystic though as I have all the hardware/posts etc laid out on top of the glass on the mystic cab and I'm at the point where I need to do the topside repopulation and I normally put it into the cab when I do that.... whoops. Don't want to lose the orientation of all the parts spread out on the glass. That was a mistake for sure.
I'm on year two of pinball ownership *period* so I'm still very very very green on a lot of this. I'm learning and honing techniques as I go, but I certainly don't have the wealth of experience that a lot of the guys on Pinside do. I try my best to make that abundantly clear when I reply, because I don't want to give off the impression that I think I know much of anything as far as this hobby goes.
I've seen people lay parts out exactly as they are on the playfield and I really like that idea. I need to figure out a way to do that myself (although perhaps this new shelf I'm having added is the PERFECT way to do that--I didn't even think of that until just now!) because constantly referencing pictures back and forth is a real pain in the ass sometimes.
Quoted from Mathazar:That's pretty slick looking!
It's a beast! I think I may have room to store it behind Tron and Metallica, although I may have to move some things around. That might be a perfect storage place so I don't have to even try breaking anything down (may not be entirely possible; I think my dad both screwed AND glued large sections of this together, although I know the top rotisserie part does at least pull loose with a couple of bolts taken out). TBH I don't plan on really needing it much in the immediate term, as soon as I'm done with these bugs on EBD. But this gives me the option of pulling playfields to do any real work, rather than propping up and working in place. Mainly I'm talking about soldering work, because I'm absolutely horrible soldering with a playfield propped up and I drip solder everywhere in the cab..which ain't great.
I'm still looking at a few more mods as well: storage/holders on the end for things like screwdrivers and hand tools, a 'box' on one end to encapsulate the wiring loom (and anything misc that I need to store but want close to the playfield for some reason). But both of those I'm not planning on doing anytime soon since as mentioned I feel like I'm reaching the tail-end of my use for this rotisserie for the time being.
Damn. Mine won't reach like yours will. So, no debugging with the game plugged in. Tried both the left and right side and the connection to the power board inside the cab was just a hair too short with the optimal tilt on the rotisserie (let alone with the playfield facing up). There might be some way to modify it, or the way I'm trying to do this, in order for that to work..but off-hand it doesn't appear to be doable.
Oh well, time to research lights that are out / stuck on and to try and fix these damn pops I guess.
And then to order a new set of apron cards, because I'm an idiot and one of my clamps slipped (the whole damn playfield nearly fell off!) and punched a hole through it.
Quoted from Mathazar:For the last few months, I've been thinking about building a "cable harness extension kit" that basically extends the playfield harness some number of feet, long enough to have the playfield out of the cabinet and be able to freely rotate 360 degrees on the rotisserie up to a few feet away. One of these weekends I should build a prototype and see how (if) it works.
I should do the same..but I hate crimping molex, so...
Count me down for one if you end up doing it with any amount of success and are willing to do another for a price
Okay, so a bit more dialing in / testing / messing around...
My D lane is causing the game to glitch and/or completely reset, but seemingly only if the 7 ball target is dropped. I have no idea what could possibly cause this and I'm pretty sure it never happened before. Any ideas?
I got two of my lights fixed (B lane and 9ball in the rack) but two flat out won't work (11ball target never lights and 7 ball in the rack never lights -- it was stuck on, but dim, previously. I soldered in a new socket). I verified continuity on the two (both with grounds as well as with positive lead from socket to plug) that won't work and the voltage looks good at the socket so I'm really at a loss on what could be wrong or where to check next.
Looks like they're tied together in the switch matrix so I guess it makes sense.. bad diode?
PXL_20210414_231624506.MP (resized).jpg
Naturally I forgot to dial in the pops while I had this thing out of the cabinet.
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Topeka, KS
