Bally Eight Ball Deluxe is hands-down the best SS pinball machine ever made (and the most sought-after).
Quoted from GaryMartin:
The only thing I don't like about this title is trying to keep the original linear flippers working right. I've rebuilt everything on them, including PBR's special endstops but mine still stick in the up position all the time. I have about resigned myself to swapping them out for some standard flippers.
Here's what it takes to properly rebuild linear flippers from a 34 year old pinball machine. It might cost a little to do it right but it's worth it:
My guess is if you are having problems with the flipper sticking in the up position, you need to look at the coil sleeve, the plunger, the nylon bushing and the plunger stop. Another thing to look at is binding on the nylon bushing or if the bracket is cocked or bent. It sounds like something pretty-simple to me. I think I've had a problem like that once but was able to eliminate it after proper diagnosis.
I'm pretty anal about having all of my pins working 100% right down to every bulb.
If these flippers were as unreliable as they have been for you, EBD wouldn't have lasted a week on location because they got the crap played out of them back then.
I ought to know. As a kid in 1981 I fed EBD more quarters than I ever fed any other pinball machine.
Quoted from dmesserly:
There's a guy a bit north of you who might like to help you with your double vision problem.
Everybody wants an Eight Ball Deluxe. For me it's #1. The two pins in the picture in my previous post are two of the best I've ever had. Keepers with super-nice original cabinets and playfields both as clean as a whistle. One was HUO and the other is just as clean so I don't know what its story is.
I've had a bunch of these. Here are a couple more. A pimped-out 1981 model next to a pimped-out 1983 "Classic" edition:
Here's some Eight Ball Deluxe trivia for you guys who were born too late to have experienced these pins during the pinnacle of pinball's popularity. There were three versions of EBD. The original from 1981, the Limited Edition from 1982, and what has come to be called the "Classic" edition from 1984.
The most-popular version is the original from 1981. The 2nd most-popular is the 1984 Classic edition from 1984. The Limited Edition comes in last because of the goofy cabinet and displays. However, all three versions play exactly the same.
Here's the trivia part. Back in the days when these machines were new, we used to call the 1981 version the "Bad Guy" because it has an evil-looking ghoul on the backbox.
The 1984 version was the "Nice Guy" because it had a normal-looking dude with a wedding band on his finger.
So the picture above is of a "Bad Guy" sitting next to a "Nice Guy".
It wasn't Stacy Keach or Daniel Simpson Day.
The artwork was created by Margaret Hudson and as far as I know, it wasn't based on any living person.
Quoted from ChrisM:
Like Madpole, and especially Gatecrasher, EBD >IS< my favorite 80's early SS pin. It was one that I went searching for when I first got into the hobby in 1998. I have the most popular design, the 1981 style. .....
Game is slick, fast, beautiful, and if I had to have ONE pin from this era, I'd choose it over my fathom and Centaur. Yeah crazy, I know. But I have such great memories of playing it back in the day....
Crazy? I don't think so. I have a Fathom too but Eight Ball Deluxe is a better pin (and was ten times more popular in the day).
I remember when both were new in the arcades. There were a couple guys we would always see on Fathom. That's all they would play and we liked it too but if it came down to a choice between Fathom and Eight Ball Deluxe it was pretty-much a no-brainer.
Stop Talkin' and Start Chalkin'!
It's very nice but I would have painted the cabinet the correct custard color if the goal was to make it a "collector's piece".
Quoted from Classic_Stern:
This about makes me cry. Why would you put linear flippers back in. I put the older style plungers, links and paw and then go with the plastic lighter flipper. Though linear flippers work when they get hot and alittle wear boy are they sluggish. I can tell every time I am playing a game with these flippers especially alittle lower voltage like at a show. Painful....
All the collectors in the DFW area always ask me why do my classic Bally's play so well especially my 81's. I tell them outside of the full restoration its all about getting rid of the linear flipper.
I know we have debated this til the dogs come home but....painful.
You must not do a complete job of rebuilding them after 40 years of use if you still have problems afterwards. When I do mine they are perfect and good for another 30 years of hard play. No further problems and best of all, the pinball machine performs exactly as it was designed to when new.
Now if you are less than 50 years old, it probably doesn't matter as much because you weren't playing these pins when they were brand-new and don't know any better. But to us purists who grew up with these machines from the day they came out until now it matters a lot and changing to the older style definitely changes the game play. The same goes for all the classic Bally pins that originally came equipped with linear flippers.
Quoted from vid1900:
Linear mechs suck.
Switch to the normal mechs:
That's not a restoration then. It's a modification and takes away the value of the machine to hard-core EBD aficionados like me. I would be able to tell the difference in gameplay right away.
It's like when guys claim they are "restoring" a classic car but take liberties with things that were not originally used on a car. To "restore" something means to return it to as close to like new condition as possible. The fewer deviations from absolute originality, the higher the level of restoration is.
When you say you are 'restoring" a playfield by clearcoating it, that's not really a restoration either. It's a modification because it changes the way the game plays afterwards.
I'm not opposed to all mods. I just don't have the issues you guys seem to have with linear flippers and prefer them to the older style in pins that originally came with them from the factory. I see zero value in switching to the older style and would never even consider it.
Both of my current EBD pins play exactly like they did new. I've had a lot of EBD pins over the years and never have any problems with the linear flippers after refurbishing them. I don't ever have any problem with the older style either when they are in good shape.
Quoted from vid1900:
That's what is great about owning your own game, you can set it up any way you like.
If I set up my EBD next to yours at a show, probably 90% of of hardcore players would say my flippers were better.
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I'd be willing to bet money that a truly objective player wouldn't say the older style are better though. The style you like are newer. The coils also look bigger on your modified flippers vs the linears. It doesn't look like you are comparing apples to apples.
The reason linears are smoother than the earlier Bally style though is because of the guided plunger and the variable fulcrum of the arm. With the older style, the fulcrum is fixed and the plunger flops around more due to the arc of the arm. With the linear design the plungers are precisely guided through additional nylon bushings giving the mechanism a smoother and more true linear action inside the coil sleeve. The nylon bushing on the actuator arms acts as a self-lubricating variable fulcrum point that is constantly changing throughout the plunger movement as it floats in the slot in the plunger body. It's a more precise transmission of linear to rotary motion than the older style.
Now of course if you let the parts wear out and don't rebuild them properly or maintain them afterwards on your linear flippers, they won't have the precise movement they were originally designed to have. But if kept in like new condition, the performance is superior to the older style.
You can definitely tell the difference between the two designs and if I were to install a linear flipper in perfect operating condition on one side of a pin and an older style on the other, 99% of the objective users would prefer the linear.
Quoted from pindel:
Does anyone know who sells the" printed circuit light boards with twist-in sockets" as used in the 3rd edition. Would anyone be interested in selling a set?
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I've had a few of them over the years and have converted some 1981 EBD pins over to the twist lamp printed circuit boards. As you are aware, only the third and final 1983 "Classic Edition" Bally/Midway version used the PCB lamp sockets. I have even swapped complete 1983 wiring harnesses over to 1981 EBD pins.
In addition to the PCB lamps, the 1983 Midway EBD wiring harness had a few other improvements. The drop target assemblies all had Molex connectors making it easier to swap out the entire assemblies where the two earlier EBD versions had the horseshoe drop target coil arrays hard-wired to the wring harnesses.
Whenever I see someone parting out a 1983 EBD, I always buy the lamp socket PCBs and the entire wiring harnesses too if they aren't hacked up too bad. As a pinball parts manufacturer and a Ham Radio operator who has made printed circuit boards in the past, I have considered making these boards but have never gotten around to it. I have a lot of other projects going on.
Each EBD pin requires three PCBs for the playfield lamps. Here are two complete sets I have right now that I bought a few years ago. I'm really not looking to sell them though.
Since they only made about 1,500 of the Midway machines, they are getting harder to find. You can still buy the twist sockets brand-new though and I have a bag full of them. Keep looking on eBay and continue to look around. You'll probably find some eventually.
My two current EBD pins still have the original individual 555 lamp sockets but I still keep these for future projects. They are awful nice. I don't know why one is a different color? It's an oddball I guess.
I also still have one complete 1983 wiring harness that could be used with one set of these to do the full Midway conversion. A few years ago I built a gawdy pimped-out 1981 EBD and added the complete 1983 wiring harness. It had an NOS clear-coated playfield and brand-new everything and a lot of chrome. I do both type of machines (hard-core restorations and modified pins) and am not totally opposed to mods. All of my EBD pins retain the linear flippers though. That is one thing I never change.
Quoted from practicalsteve:
Hey experts, gameplay question. What are the DELUXE lights in the backglass for? I just put my friends EBD back together, and its all lit up except the "E" at the end and during attract mode it says something about go for deluxe.
Also, is there a setting to turn off speech in attract mode?
Adjustment 22 (from pressing the self-test button on the coin door) controls how many games are awarded when you get all six DELUXE lights lit.
00 = no award
01 = one free game
02 = two free games
03 = three free games
Switch # 22 on the MPU is the control for how the D-E-L-U-X-E lights in the backbox are advanced.
>With switch 22 "on" - every time you complete D-E-L-U-X-E on the playfield the backbox will advance one letter.
>With switch 22 "off" - every time you complete D-E-L-U-X-E when "Special" is lit the backbox will advance one letter.
All you have to remember is "22" for both.
I remember when EBD was new and we figured out what the D-E-L-U-X-E lights on the backbox meant, we used to love walking into an arcade and finding a EBD machine sitting there with "D-E-L-U-X" lit. We would fight over who got to put their quarter in first.
Most operators had them set up with switch 22 turned "on" and self-test adjustment 22 set to "03" which were the most-liberal settings. That's the way I have all my EBD pins set up too.
Quoted from vid1900:
EBD was probably Bally's last true pinball hit.
After that, their poor flipper design slowly dragged Bally under, as players much preferred the snappier performance of the Williams games. Finally in the late 80s, Williams put Bally out of their self inflicted misery.
Lol I think there's a little more to the story of Bally's demise than that. The writing was on the wall for commercial pinball as a growth industry after 1982 and Bally wanted out. The flipper design wasn't a factor as far as the demise of pinball goes. Bally would have been gone no matter what flipper design they used.
As far as I'm concerned, EBD was everyone's last big pinball "hit". There were later pins that had more units produced but none that ever rose to the level of outright fanatical popularity of EBD. At least not in my book.
I would never change the linear flippers because they work fantastic for me (and I don't mind the noise). It's part of the game. It is loud with the playfield up though. So I guess you change out the flippers in your old EM pins too? I wouldn't do that either even though the newer style you prefer would definitely be stronger.
Quoted from BrianBannon:
Actually, the 1982 EBD LE has PCB lamp sockets in a portion of the production, too. Not sure at what point they changed from sockets to PCBs, but I have run across a number of them.
Yes you are correct. I have seen a few of the LEs with the lamp PCBs too. Not too many though.
It must have happened towards the end of the production run. It would be interesting to know at what serial number they started putting them in?
The CPR playfields were more pale white than the original factory playfields were. That's because they duplicated the Fabulous Fantasies overlays which are also on the pale side. They don't look bad though. The one in the bonzo442's pictures looks to be a CPR repop or it may be a Fabulous Fantasies overlay. I also restored a couple OEM playfields and had them touched up pale white so it could be one like that too but I doubt it.
The IPB playfields look more authentic as compared to OEM. They are supposed to be a light custard color rather than the stark white that is similar to the color of the metal apron and the cabinet.
On the left is a CPR playfield and on the right is an IPB:
Quoted from bonzo442:
I think mine is an IPB. If you look at the pics take a look by the upper right pop bumper. The rubber is white and the playfield to the right of it is a cream color. I did purchase the game restored and the seller said it was a repo playfield. I play the game daily and it definitely has the custard looking color. I will try and take a pic of a better area if I get a chance.
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As was mentioned earlier, all you have to do is to look underneath the metal apron. If there is a color palette it is an IPB (Illinois Pinball).
Your playfield looks like either a CPR repop or a Fabulous Fantasies overlay but I see what you are saying and it does look somewhat yellow up there too so it's hard to tell from the pic. Your cabinet looks like it was repainted by Fabulous Fantasies though (they also paint the cabinets a pale white instead of the light yellow custard they originally were). It's definitely more pale than OEM.
Quoted from BorisSWort:
I am in the process of restoring two 1981 machines, but I have no idea what I am doing. I bought a second one so I can see where I miswired my first one when I tried a playfield swap. The second one has been spray painted black. What brand and color of paint would work to get it back to the yellow color? Also, the rollover switch (upper left hand corner) fell apart during the swap. I can't find a replacement switch. Any ideas what I can do?
The 1981 machine used a light custard yellow for the cabinet. If you want an exact match you can take one of your back boxes that is still painted the factory color to a paint store and have them color match it. Home Depot or Lowes can do it.
As for the switch, it's just a leaf switch. What I usually do is to replace the blades with the contacts and use the rest of the parts from the original. But you can purchase the entire assembly too if you need to. Marco Specialties carries the individual contact blades (25 cents each) or a complete roll-over switch assembly for $6.00. Go to the Marco website and type "leaf switch" in the search box.
Pinball resource has them too as do other places.
Quoted from mof:
Odds are the game came that way off the factory. At a certain point, you can examine and re-examine everything and decide, there's no more "minor adjustments" you can make with the flipper assembly and the location of the ball guide.
I finally took matters into my own hands on my 2004 Halifax PF, and re-drilled the hole for the ball guide. I wish I had done it 6 months ago.
1. By drilling RIGHT NEXT to the old hole, you will never see the old hole.
2. You WILL see rings smashed into the clear from the BELL.
3. The game will play better, and it's all worth it
That's why the dimples in NOS playfields and even the CPR ones are not to be taken as gospel. They are "ballparky" at best. That's why when I hear someone say the CPR playfields are better than the IPB repops because they have the pre-spotted holes I have to disagree with their logic because to make the game perfect you usually need to tweak them some so the dimples aren't really that much of a deciding factor for me.
The main things I look for are the registration of the artwork, the flatness of the wood, and other cosmetic flaws.
If you don't want to drill holes just go buy some Lexan and make your own custom lane guides. I've made quite a few of them over the years. It isn't very hard. You can add a little extra material when you mark them to be cut on a jigsaw to compensate for the mismatch. It will still look factory then.
Making your own Lexan replacements maintains the correct lighting. Using two metal ones hides the lamp underneath. Not that big of a deal but making a Lexan one is cheaper and looks more original than adding another stainless blade. Plus with Lexan you can customize it exactly for your particular game to eliminate the mismatch. The Lexan holds-up to the heat better than the originals did too which warped over time.
Quoted from Bohdi:
Previous member of the club, and hoping to rejoin soon. Ok all you EBD owners here, help me out. Previously owned a '81 version for years and sold it a year ago. Prefer the '81. but have my sights on a pretty nice '84 Midway version. Basically new PF (said about a 100 plays on it), decent cabinet other than a little fade, good BG. Overall, pretty nice. Other than cosmetic differences etc, how does the '84 compare to the '81 in your minds? As far as I know they play EXACTLY the same, correct? I guess I'm just looking for opinions and thoughts on the '84, and a price check. Thanks in advance, and miss being a member dearly. Few pics..eb 6.jpgunnamed.jpgeb.jpg (Click image to enlarge)eb 2.jpg (Click image to enlarge)eb 8.jpg (Click image to enlarge)eb 9.jpg (Click image to enlarge)eb3.jpg
The 84-85 "Classic" edition Bally/Midway EBD is a decent pin. I don't know why it is called the "Classic". The apron score cards say "Limited Edition" and the apron is identical to the previous Limited Edition too. Also referred to as the "Nice Guy" version.
Play is identical to the other two versions. One improvement to the playfield are the under playfield lamp circuit boards with twist-in #555 sockets.
The cabinets used decals instead of painted graphics. The decals always faded if exposed to UV. Cabinets can be stripped and repainted if desired but you must make your own stencils.
I paid $1200 a few years ago for one and fully restified it with a touched-up and clear-coated immaculate playfield, repainted cabinet, and blinged-out trim. Sold it for $4,000 on eBay.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
The 13 ball light for the drop targets doesn't work as well as one of the deluxe letters. I have tried new bulbs and new twist in sockets. No help. What should I do next to fix it?
When you say "it doesn't work as well", to most people that means it works just not as well as the others. In other words it is faint, not out altogether or works intermittently.
When you mean it doesn't light at all, one usually says "It doesn't work at all".
So which is it? If it is just not as bright as the rest or works intermittently you probably have a bad connection. If it is out altogether, then you could have a bad lamp driver board SCR as Vid mentioned or a broken connection somewhere.
Even though you didn't take my advice and stick with the linear flipper mechanisms I'll still help you get your flippers wired correctly. If you were to play one of mine though, I know you'd want to switch back to the linear setup. But we won't dwell on that.
So to get yours up and running.....
> Your upper flipper is wired correctly.
> Your Left flipper has the switch wired correctly but one wire is soldered to the wrong terminal on the coil and one is loose. Do all the work to the coil and leave the switch as-is. The brown wire on the switch with the red arrow is currently wired to the center terminal on the coil. Cut it from the center terminal on the coil and re-solder it to the coil terminal closest to the switch (marked with the other red arrow). (see pic)
Then take the loose wire that is attached to the switch (marked by the blue arrow) and solder it to the center terminal on the coil. You could have reversed these wires and just soldered the loose wire to the coil terminal closest to the switch and it still would work but might as well return it to factory while you are at it. (call me anal if you want)
All your other wires look OK on this flipper.
> Your right flipper is pretty easy to wire. You should have two brown wires twisted together (like it shows in your picture) and also one orange wire coming from your wiring harness. The two brown wire are soldered to the terminal on the coil that is furthest away from the switch (marked with the red arrows). The orange wire is then soldered to the coil terminal closest to the switch (marked with the blue arrows).
You will then need to cut two jumper wires about 3" long each to wire the switch. They were brown from the factory if you want to keep everything looking original. Solder one of the jumper wires from a terminal on the switch to the terminal on the coil furthest from the switch (as marked with the blue arrows). Then solder the other jumper wire from the other terminal on the switch to the center terminal of the coil (as marked with the red arrow).
As long as everything else is OK, your flippers should work. If they don't, at least they will be wired correctly and you will be able to troubleshoot more easily from there.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.
You do not want them to touch the metal guide bars. If you do, the bars will eventually break from the flipper constantly smacking against them. You see this on a lot of pins where the flippers are set incorrectly. To set the flippers correctly, there are two dimples in the playfield that show where the flippers are supposed to be set. Basically you want the tips of the flippers to be pointing at the dimples and the top edge of the flippers will be in a straight line with the lane guide.
I've had a couple EBD playfields where one or both were broken-off flush right where the flipper hits them. It's not that uncommon.
Had to remove the broken pieces from the playfield and then fabricate my own new ones because I couldn't find them anywhere.
These machines had a lot more than 500 plays on them though. Even though the flippers are plastic, if you smack anything enough times it will break eventually. That's what the dimples at the end of the flippers are for. To make it easier to properly align the flippers.
Here's what the flippers are supposed to look like in the up position. I could only show one side at a time though because I needed the other hand to snap the picture.
There is supposed to be a slight gap between the upper left flipper and the metal wire guide too. I've seen that one snapped-off too.
One thing to note about adjusting the flippers is that it can be difficult to change their position without installing brand-new flipper shafts. With the linear flippers the set screws in the flipper crank tend to dig into the shaft making it a permanent setting. When you try to change the position they usually come loose and go back to where they were.
New flipper bats and shafts are $3.95 each from Marco and others. Well-worth the investment and once you set them properly, they will stay there forever.
Quoted from dothedoo:
If the bats/shoes are good you can grind the shaft smooth so that the set screws can bite without slipping into the old grooves.
Well you know, I've tried that plus several other things and none of them ever seems to hold-up. I thought I had found the fix when I took some original Bally flipper bats and shafts and turned down the area where the screw had embedded on a lathe essentially removing the marks. I must have turned down 20 pairs. They would hold-up for a while but would eventually fail because they would deflect from the two set screws which are 90 degrees from each other.
Next I turned the ends of the set screws down to a sharp point on the lathe so they would dig into the flipper shafts. That worked for a while too but eventually slipped.
The only thing I've found that is permanent is to replace them with brand-new and torque down the set screws. It sucks because the factory bats were better quality and had a replaceable plastic bat shell but the repops do the job.
Quoted from Aurich:
I dig the pool theme, but I have to admit, the backglass has to be my least favorite of all the early Ballys. Doesn't mean I'll pass one up given the chance, but it keeps it off my "must have" hunt list.
I think the backglass is awesome. Margaret Hudson is an excellent artist. Wouldn't want any of my machines to have anything else.
The cabinet artwork is excellent too (especially on the 1st machine).
Eight Ball Deluxe is the best SS Bally ever made (and arguably the best pinball machine Bally ever made IMO).
Quoted from Aurich:
It's just not for me is all. I think it's very well done, I dig the typography and the layout with the rope frames. I just don't dig the Marlboro Man / cowboy vibe personally. It wouldn't stop me from owning it, it's a great game, and I love early Bally SS a lot. Right now I have Fathom (on loan), Flash Gordon, Mystic, and Fireball II.
At some point Fathom will go home, and I'll probably try and trade my Fireball II for another Bally when something comes up. EBD is definitely on the list to go in one of those slots if I get a chance. But I'm not sure I'd pay a lot for a collector quality one for instance, because the theme doesn't make it worth it to me.
My favorite solid state Bally is Flash Gordon. IMHO it's the "Iron Man" of the era. Hard and fast, keeps you coming back for more. Mine's in decent condition, but not a looker. Backglass is great though, that's important. But man, it plays great.
Have any of you EBD people tried Cliffy's tweaked ball guides? I'm not sure how they are for EBD, he said they worked, but on Flash Gordon they're really nice. Smooths out that ball hop transition. Might not be "purist original", but I love the way it plays and feels.
Anything 1980 Bally is cool to me really. Not a hater!
For one thing, using those Cliffys ball guides for anything other than the upper garnish on EBD is a mistake IMO. I can see possibly using them on machines that originally had that style if the originals are worn out but not on EBD. Bally went to the plastic style for a reason. Because you don't want a semi-sharp stainless steel edge scratching the ball up which in turn ruins the playfield.
The stainless edge is never supposed to touch the ball on EBD. It's just a garnish. If you have ball hop transition as you call it, that means either your plastic guides are worn-out or improperly adjusted. If they are good shape there is no ball hop. Bally must have decided it was better to have to replace a couple plastic guides after extensive use rather than the entire playfield.
I have restored a lot of EBD machines and occasionally I'll get one where the lower plastic guides were either worn or melted from the lamp underneath and a previous owner decided to flip them around and put the stainless steel one below the plastic so they can eliminate the ball hop. Well the stainless guides are always ruined with big burrs on the edge and the playfields are shot from excessive ball wear. Usually worn down to bare wood.
If you replace the plastic ones once every 40 years or so you won't ever have any problems - plus your EBD will look they way it is supposed to look. But those Cliffys would be good to replace the upper garnishes if someone used them as the ball guides and ruined them. I wish I still had some of the ones I've found because some of the stainless guides were worn down to almost nothing - and they caused a ball hop too.
EBD is without a doubt the most sought-after SS pin of all-time. Fathom is a cool machine but it doesn't hold a candle to EBD and never did in the field either. Fathom was not nearly as successful commercially. I have both and love my Fathom too but it would be long gone before EBD.
Oh yeah, and that picture you show in your post is not from 1980. That is the backglass from the 3rd edition of EBD (aka Classic) and it was released in 1985. The original Bally EBD was released in 1981.
Here are the two next to each other. The 1985 Bally/Williams release has a smaller backglass than the original and it slides out of the hinged channel instead of lifting out like the original.
Quoted from mof:
I must be misunderstanding you here.
Are you by chance claiming that the industry-standard stainless steel inlane return guide designs and materials that have been preferred by all manufacturers for the last 40 years have actually been a complete mistake?
This style is definitely a mistake. They weren't used on tons of machines though.
That's probably why Bally changed them to just be garnishes on Eight Bally Deluxe rather than guides. The effects of the edge wearing and ruining the balls becomes a lot more noticeable as gameplay became a lot faster in the SS era. Unprotected playfields lasted longer on EMs than they did on the later SS pins.
The stainless garnish on EBD was not intended to be used as a lane guide. On EBD machines where they have been used improperly as guides, they are almost always worn excessively with huge burrs on the edge and the playfield is shot. These Cliffys parts would be great to use as Bally intended on EBD. They are beautiful looking and until now I don't think anyone has ever made them. Using them as lane guides though is a mistake IMO. It is not an improvement over good plastic guides. Plus it makes the machine look wrong.
Quoted from Classic_Stern:
I would love a retheme on the glass and get rid of "Chet". He needs to go. As for the game; a must for any Solid State collection but defnitely not in my top 10. I do like playing it every now and then though.
I remember in 1981 when EBD first came out. It was an instant hit. The group of guys I used to hang out with as a teen and I would play pinball almost every day. I can't count the number of quarters I blew on pinball in the late 70s / early 80s. Back then every mall had at least one huge arcade. Some had more than one. Every bowling alley also had a generous assortment of pinball machines.
By that time though, Space Invaders and PacMan were coming out too and the video games were signaling the end of pinball as we knew it. My friends and I were hard-core pinball fanatics though and spent the vast majority of our quarters on pinball. We used to drive miles out of our way just to go to a certain bowling alley or arcade that had Eight Ball Deluxe. It was without a doubt the most-popular pinball machine back then and I can't think of any machine since that has matched that level of enthusiasm. I remember one sitting right next to a Fathom and guys would be lined-up slapping quarters on the playfield glass of the EBD while Fathom sat there with cobwebs hanging off it.
Then a few years later we had a decent arcade in the student union at college. What was the most-popular pin there? It was an EBD Limited Edition except by then the price had changed from 5 balls for 25 cents to 3 balls for 50 cents. We still played the crap out of it almost every night (whenever we weren't either binge-drinking and/or chasing women).
We used to call the original 1981 edition of EBD "The Bad Guy Machine" because of ghoulish-looking character on the sides of the backbox.
We called the 1985 "Classic Edition" from Bally/Midway "The Nice Guy Machine" because of the nicer-looking guy on the sides of the backbox with a wedding band on his hand.
We really didn't have a name for the Limited Edition version. It was always looked at as kind of an oddball but it's still just as good of a player.
Quoted from bintzknocker:
Does anyone know where to buy replacement sockets for the 555 bulbs that are under the playfield? Pbr, marco and pinball life don't have them on their websites
Both PBR and Marco carry replacement #555 lamp sockets. They are the later style but can be used in older pins too. The exception are the sockets in the early 80s pop bumpers. All that I've found out there are the lay-down style and the illumination looks funny under an EBD pop cap and the fit sucks. Also the flush-mounts style don't fit in the factory #555 lamp holes in the playfield without some massaging.
Here are the PBR sockets: http://www.pbresource.com/sockets.html#555
Here are the Marco #555 sockets: http://www.marcospec.com/control/keywordsearch;jsessionid=4E21804B9062E11EDFFADBC1DB13DD36.jvm1?SEARCH_STRING=555+lamp+socket
Quoted from MrBellMan:
I have to assume it was a price issue with Bally to move to the plastic 555 sockets, but they are just the worst design...
I believe Steve Young at PBR has the best price on new 44/47 lamp sockets! If someone knows of some cheaper, please let me know as i'm about to place a huge order for my 5 playfield swaps!
The 44/47 lamp sockets are called "bayonet" sockets because you insert the lamp and twist to secure. The #555 lamp sockets simply press-in.
The reason Bally went to the #555 lamp in the early 80s was two-fold. One reason was that the #555 lamp runs as bright as a #44 but lasts longer and generates a lot less heat which saves backglasses and playfield plastics. Another reason was the bayonet style sockets corrode and lose connectivity long before the #555 style sockets do.
You have to remember that the sockets in an EBD are going to be 35 years old, but remarkably they usually still work and most can be salvaged with a little cleaning. Instead of the plated metal housing with insulators and other conductors attached in an assembly, the #555 sockets only have two strips of brass/copper contacts inside a plastic housing that just touch two wires on the lamp. With a little cleaning you can usually bring life back to them unless they are totally trashed from sitting outside exposed to the elements or stored in a damp area and ruined by moisture over time or some other environmental abuse. Of course if the pin had bayonet style lamp sockets that were exposed to the same environment, they would definitely be unsalvageable trash.
These #555 style sockets were also widely used in the auto industry in instrument panels and other interior illumination. They too switched from the less-reliable bayonet style sockets. Once a bayonet style socket goes bad you might as-well throw it away because it is never going to be the same again.
I wish someone would manufacture exact duplicates of the style #555 sockets used in EBD but after a few years Bally/Williams and others went to the newer #555 style (like the ones PBR & Marco have on their websites) because in reality they are a little better design than the older #555 sockets but don't fit as well in some cases and don't look the same for a hard-core restoration.
Now if you are planning on going to LEDs or are simply replacing the original #555 sockets because you like the bayonet style better, they will last several years before they start giving you problems again but eventually they will start to corrode and fail just like they did back in the days. Just like the incandescent lamps available nowadays, the bayonet style sockets are cheaply-made in China and don't last forever. The bulbs made today definitely don't hold up nearly as long as they used to.
If your #555 sockets are no good, switching to the bayonet style is the easiest fix since they will fit perfectly in the playfield. The pop bumper lamp sockets are another matter though. The older bayonet pop bumper lamp sockets are pretty-crappy and tend to fail - not to mention they must be unsoldered (or cut) to disassemble the pop bumper. The #555 pop bumper lamp sockets have connectors on them which makes them easier to remove but sometimes they are broken-off which tends to render them useless. They also have a rubber shock absorber to help the filaments in the bulbs survive the constant shock from the pop bumpers firing.
I try to save the #555 pop bumper sockets if I can because the bayonet style don't fit in the later style pop bumper bodies. The replacement #555 sockets designed for pop bumpers that are available now don't fit worth a crap either. You are good to go either way on the rest of them though. Whatever works best. If the #555 sockets aren't too corroded or physically broken, I try to clean them up and save them. I also buy used assembled playfields if I see one with decent-looking #555 lamp sockets. I haven't seen any NOS ones in a long time now. You always have the option to switch to the older bayonet style if you have to though. If I only need a couple of the original #555 sockets to complete a playfield, I have removed the ones in the coin door to use on the playfield and replaced them with bayonets in the coin door.
When I restore a machine that originally came with bayonet sockets I almost always bite the bullet and replace them all with new ones. They are a lot like the pins in old connectors. If you don't just go ahead and replace them all, you'll usually end-up fighting the old ones. I usually have a big bag of each style. The flush-mount, surface-mount, and the right angle.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:
Which non Limited Edition version is more sought after, and why? The first version with the yellow/white apron and painted from, or the second (third) release with black front and black apron?
Actually, the 2nd and 3rd release of Eight Ball Deluxe both had the same "Limited Edition" score cards even though the 3rd release didn't say it anywhere else.
The 3rd Bally/Midway release is commonly referred to as the "Classic" but it doesn't say that anywhere either. I don't know why they call it the Classic since the real classic is the original 1981 release.
The model popularity tends to be:
#1 The original 1981 release
#2 The final 1984/85 Bally Midway "Classic"
#3 The 1983 "limited Edition"
The 1981 original is by-far the most-popular version. Better artwork and cabinet although the 1985 has the better under playfield lamp twist-socket circuit boards. The 1981 has painted graphics and the 1985 has decals.
But the good news is that they all play the same so you really can't go wrong there.
The 1981 models are the most sought-after and sell for the most money with all things being equal as far as condition.
The other two are kind of red-headed stepchildren. The 1983 Limited Edition was Bally's last hurrah before selling to Midway and were built using left-over cabinets. The 1985 version was Midway's attempt to capitalize on Bally's most-popular machine from the era one last time.
A Limited Edition is still an Eight Ball Deluxe. It plays just as good as any of the others. Back in the days when these machines were new, we didn't care what version it was. Just so it was an EBD. Nowadays people tend to place more value on the original strictly as a "collectable" rather than anything else because as a player they are all equal.
This kind of goes with another topic I saw on here a couple days ago about "rarity". Both the Limited Edition and the Classic are more rare than the original but rarity doesn't automatically equal higher value on the market.
1981 was the last year for the traditional Bally cabinet . None of them had a white backbox (or backbox front edge).
There were eight machines released in 1981:
2: Eight Ball Deluxe
5: Fireball II
8: Flash Gordon
Probably the last Bally pinball machine to have a white backbox front edge per say was Silverball Mania released in 1980.
It was the best year as far as I'm concerned. There's never been a better one. All the 1981 releases were great.
It's just a shame it also signaled the end for Bally largely due to the rise of video games. Not too long afterwards we started to see the decline of the arcades. But for a couple years it was pure heaven if you were into pinball. Every mall had at least one major arcade (sometimes more than one). Every bowling alley also had a generous selection of pins. The east coast boardwalks all had tons of pinball machines and arcades as well as all the amusement parks. Not a whole lot of people I knew back then had them in their houses though.
I used to blow every cent I had on pinball and hang out in the arcades all the time.
That pin in the playfield is factory.
They all had it when new. Nothing else went there.
One thing to notice that you can tell from the picture is it is the 1985 Bally/Midway "Classic" version. That particular version used the blue star plastic posts while the two earlier editions of EBD used the traditional Bally blue "ringed" posts.
The 1985 Bally/Midway version also used nylon nuts on the top threaded posts while the earlier versions originally used the push-on rubbers although the Limited Edition may have switched late in the run to the nylon.
Your connectors have exceeded their life expectancy. The one in the picture is garbage.
Your best move would be to replace them all. Then you shouldn't have any more wiring issues.
It's not that hard to do.
You can buy new connectors and pins from several places.
Here's a good one:
Yeah I don't think they are supposed to be that way.
Hard to tell what exactly is going on there?
That's the correct apron for both the Limited Edition and the Bally/Midway "Classic" editions.
The 1981 original version had the custard colored apron.
The 1981 score cards read "Eight Ball Deluxe" and the Limited Edition & the Bally/Midway "Classic" score cards both read "Eight Ball Deluxe Limited Edition".
The words "Eight" and "Ball" were always separate on the real Bally score cards though just like they are on the backglass. This would lead one to believe that the cards used in Robert's picture are reproductions. Actually I've seen the incorrect reproductions with Eightball" as one word for sale from parts vendors like Marco and on eBay before. Only a hard-core EBD fan would notice the discrepancy but it's one of those little things that I tend to be a little "anal" about. If someone is going to go to all the trouble of making reproduction score cards they should at least get the spelling right.
I know I can be dick at times but that's just me.
Quoted from snyper2099:
Solid State pinball machine standard is 3 ball. EM standard is 5 ball.
Just curious, why do you want to put it on 5 ball?
Not necessarily true. Most pinball machines that I used to play in 1981 were still set to 5 balls including Eight Ball Deluxe. I remember when the Midway "Classic" version came out too it was still a 5-ball game where I lived in PA but by that time you started seeing more games starting to be set to three balls. I remember when I was in college in the later 80s we had an EBD LE on campus and it was set to three balls but this was several years after it's release.
Basically the operator had the option of either way but up to the early to mid 80s the majority still used 5-balls.
I prefer 5-balls on all my Bally SS because that was they way they were set when I used to play them as a kid.
We tended to avoid the games set to 3-balls if we ever did run across one.
The big difference between the older EMs and the newer SS pins was that the EMs accepted dimes and quarters where the SS pins only accepted quarters and SBA dollars. Most older EMs were set to one game for a dime or three for a quarter while the newer SS pins were one game for a quarter (sometimes 3 for 50 cents) and usually 5 or 6 games for a SBA dollar.
All SS pins were still 5-ball games in the early 80s in the arcades I spent my time in.
In the 70s you rarely ever saw one set to 3-balls. When you did, it was an anomaly.
Quoted from kruzman:
HI guys, I really need some help. I am fixing and clearing a IPB 8bd pf, and it was not dimpled. I would rather not have this pf go out un dimpled. What I need is to buy or borrow a used or new pf from someone. I will even rent it, Name your terms. I can also offer a discount on a clear job, or move one to the front, or whatever. if the pf is a loan, I have a fed ex acct, and will cover the shipping, I do need you to box it for me. there is something I can do for someone. if they loan me the pf, I will only need it for a couple days, and I can return it in a heavy duty pf shipping crate. I make them to ship 2 pf's safely, and they come with the packing, so it will take you les than 5 minutes to wrap a pf for shipment, and a pf has never been damaged in 10 years.
Please contact me if you can help.
also in case you are wondering, I am accepting clearcoat jobs right now, and the backlog is about 1/2 of what it usually is. Also I will publish the FEB list of new/nos pf's available soon.
I just sent you a PM Ron.
In PA 99% of all the early SS pins I used to play were set to 5-balls. Back then there was at least one big arcade at every mall (sometimes two big ones). Every bowling alley also had a generous selection of pins. We used to drive out of our way just to play EBD and all of them were set to 5-balls.
I don't think I played a 3-ball game of EBD until around 1985-86 (and that was at a college student union). But I had seen a few at other places and just passed them by. All of the SS pins are better set to 5 balls.
There was no "default" ball setting for SS pins. It's like anything else that is designed to make a profit. The operators were either cheapskates and had them set to 3-balls or they were cool and had them set to 5-balls.
I think EBD is a far-better player at 5 balls than at 3 balls although 3-balls are better than none.
Quoted from snyper2099:
You're trying to say you played 99% of pins in PA back in the day? That's a load of crap.
There was a default. It was set to 3 balls from the factory. Default settings are also indicated in the manuals for all pin manufacturers. Please stop talking out yet arse.
You know what I meant. I'm not doubting that some operators set them to three balls. Just the statement that the manuals says 3-balls are the default setting. I think you are mistaken there.
99% of the pins I played back then were set to 5-balls for a quarter - including the machines in the arcade I worked in. Especially in the 1970s.
The places I used to see early SS pins set to three balls the most often were settings like airports or other locations like the boardwalk at the Jersey shore where the players weren't regulars. People just stopping in for a game or two or tourists in places where everything was basically a rip-off too and they could get away with it. I usually avoided those machines.
There are actually four options for number of balls (2,3,4,5). I don't see anything in the manuals saying the default setting is 3-balls. The score cards each have their own recommended settings and the manual shows cards for both 3-ball and 5-ball. It was all just a matter of preference including how much you wanted to charge for a game. That's why various pricing inserts for the coin mechs were also included with the manuals.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Have you ever come across a machine set on 2 or 4 ball?
No I never have seen that and there aren't any score cards for it that I've ever seen either but the machine does have the capability of being set to those options.
Gosh two balls would really suck.
One thing that's interesting about EBD that I never tried or noticed is when you have it set to 5-balls in attract mode it will say "Eight Ball Deluxe.... Five Ball" and in 3-ball mode it will say "Eight Ball Deluxe... Three ball".
I wonder if it is set to two or four balls if it says the same for them?
Most likely but I just never tried it.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Looking at 8BD LE. Curious if the playfields are the same across the eight ball deluxe series. ie, can I get a CPR or other playfield for 8BD and it will fit the limited edition?
Thanks for any info that you'd offer for an 8BD shopper!
The wiring varies slightly between the models but the actual wooden playfields are all the same dimensionally.
Quoted from jibmums:
Gotta feel bad for the guy who dropped almost 1400 for this warped playfield not even a month ago, and now CPR opens up a new preorder list for half that. The very definition of "bad timing".
Not necessarily. It's going to be at least several months before we see the CPR playfields and this guy may have needed one for a project now. Also, he got an IPB version which are getting more rare every day. They were very nice as long as he can apply the side rails and get most of the warpage out of it.
One thing I regret was selling my last NOS Harlem Globetrotters playfield. I was on the CPR pre-order list for both the Globetrotters playfields and plastics so I decided to sell it to a guy on Pinside along with my last NOS plastics set. I wish I would have kept them because I later found out after waiting several months that the Globetrotters playfields and plastics were cancelled because of some licensing agreement or something.
So even though this new release of EBD playfields looks to be for real, nothing beats having the sure thing right now if you can afford it. I have my last IPB EBD playfield sitting here and wouldn't sell it for $1400. It can't be easily replaced.
Quoted from dothedoo:
Assuming, of course, he got one with good insert printing in the bonus rack. I wanted to buy one from PPS when they bought the IPB inventory, but I couldn't get them to provide me with a backlit image so I could see the insert numbers lit up, so I passed. Was kicking myself ever since until this announcement.
I see your point though. If he needed/wanted it now, it could be worth the extra scratch.
I bought 8 of the EBD playfields from Gene when they were still available. The one I have left was the best of the lot.
I also bought 6 Kiss playfields at the same time. I still have one IPB Kiss playfield and backglass left too.
But I'm glad CPR is making more and am in the cue for both. They are definitely the two most sought-after Bally SS playfields. That's why there is still a huge demand for both even after IPB made a ton of them.
When this next batch of playfields are made by CPR it would be interesting to see which one is their all-time biggest seller. I bet EBD will right up there.
Quoted from dothedoo:
Yep, notice their preorder is already full.
I don't think I've ever seen a preorder fill up and be closed after only one week.
No other playfield is in such high demand. The reason they had any extras last run was because the IPB playfields were still out there. Now that they have all been snatched up as well as the 1st CPR playfields, this next run will be gobbled right up.
I kind of wish I would have ordered more now.
Quoted from lspin:
Looking for a little help. Anyone with a EBD LE can you please send a picture of your aux lamp board on the connector I've attached here. I believe it goes to the 2 ball on the playfield. But would like to verify. Also anyone know where I can find the replacement connector so I can repin the connectors. Thanks so much
You have the correct wires going to that pin (pin #13). Two wires (white with black stripe).
What is missing is a jumper wire from that pin to the burnt one on the end (pin #15).
You can get connectors from several places. One I use a lot is Big Daddy http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/
Here's a picture of an EBD auxiliary lamp driver board I replaced the connectors on:
Quoted from dothedoo:
Question. Why did you put pins in the empty slots? I assume for added tension and I could see that with a smaller connector with no locking tab, but for a larger connector with trifurcon pins it's not a problem even with no locking tab. I'd look at that and think a wire pulled out of it's crimp. Just curious...
On this application I decided to put them in there exactly why you suspected. For greater retention.
The original Bally connectors have inserts in every pin location whether they are being used or not. When I installed these connectors the retention was less than the originals had, even with the trifurcon inserts, so I added inserts to the unused positions too.
This is a 1st gen EBD and the auxiliary lamp driver board is mounted on the hinged backbox lamp board. I felt it was better to add the extra inserts. Now they are nice and tight like the originals were.
You can easily see which ones are not used. They are not crimped. I normally don't add them but in this case decided it wouldn't hurt.
Quoted from tdiddy:
You'll find quite a few have the full Mylar installed. It slows the ball play down some but reminds me of how most of them I used to play back in the day were. I think the majority of operators used them although I've had quite a few without the full Mylar too.
I just sold a real nice one with a day one full Mylar a couple months ago to a Pinside member.
Here was one I removed from a EBD "Classic":
I sent it to Rick Stefonek and had it touched-up, all the inserts re-leveled and after 6 layers of automotive clearcoat it was a showpiece. It cost me $400 and was definitely worth it.
I later sold the game for $4,500 on eBay (and that was ten years ago).
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:
The factory original posts are "finned" (blue or red).
Higher in cost, harder to find.
Modern "star" posts are common in quantity and color at all major primary suppliers (PL, PBR, MS, BAA, etc)
Depends on what you want to do.
From every example I've seen over the years, the 1984-85 Midway "Classic" edition used the translucent blue star posts with nylon acorn nuts while the earlier versions used the traditional Bally ringed posts with the rubber post caps.
I won't say that's absolute but it's the way it's been from my experience.
Marco Specialties as well as most other suppliers should have the blue star posts.
When I get a totally-trashed 35 year old switch like that I just replace it with a brand-new one. Then it is good for the rest of my life at least. Anything else is a short-lived Band-Aid that you will be sure to be revisiting unless your plan is to just get it working and sell it.
Quoted from Nveld:
Question. I was just looking to do the capacitors on the squawk & talk board on a new project machine and noticed it is missing th U2 24 pin ic socket. Does anyone know exactly what that chip controls? Is it even needed on this board at all? Maybe it's normal to be empty? For the record the machine is an LE.
It's not used.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:
Where can I find a good, straightforward reference to replace these metal pieces into new plastics?
I posted a pictorial on it a few years ago.
Here is a condensed version:
Just a couple waves of the lighter is all that is needed. You don't want to get the post too hot or the plastic gets gooey.
A drill bit works great for this but you can do it with just about anything.
Work your way around the post by turning it as you squeeze progressively until the flange is straight. You don't want to squeeze it too hard though or the screw won't fit in the hole when you are done.
After the flange has been straightened the post can then be easily inserted into the new plastics piece.
Then install the plastic to the playfield and as you tighten the screws they will mushroom the post slightly again to the plastic. If the piece is a lower plastic (like this EBD lane guide is), you can use a shorter screw to mushroom the post and then remove it or leave the post as-is because there is another one that goes on top and after the screw is tightened it won't be going anywhere. There really is no need to mushroom them at all if you don't want to.
Quoted from indypinhead:
I used my soldering tip insterted into the flange side to remove the bell stand-offs from the old plastics. Worked real good.
Yeah it doesn't take much heat to easily remove them.
I usually squeeze the flanges straight and then throw them in my vibratory polisher to clean them up nice.
Wow I'm flattered. I do like the EBD though guys and it is probably the main reason I became so interested in getting into these machines after the fact. EBD was a significant part of my youth back in the early 80s as thousands of hours were spent feeding them quarters. Then when I went to college they even had one in the Student Union.
We were kind of snobbish back then and looked down on some of the other titles. It was different when you actually had to pay to play. Like most kids I had a limited supply of quarters to spend at the arcades so I didn't just throw them in any old machine. Sometimes it takes several plays before you really start to appreciate how good a game really is.
Now years later after I have played the crap out of most of the Bally SS titles from the era I have a greater appreciation for the others but EBD still reigns as #1 all time in my book.
It's funny because whenever I bring an EBD to a pinball show I always have three things happen.
1) Tons of people ask me if it is for sale.
2) Several hard-core pin fans in my age group come over and tell me stories of how they think EBD is the greatest pin ever made and how much it influenced them back in the days too and how much they love it, etc.
3) Even after I tell people the machine isn't for sale they still bug the crap out of me to sell it. lol
I think anyone who restores Bally SS pins will tell you even if they had a warehouse full of restored EBD pins they could sell them all faster than any other title. Herb Silvers at Fabulous Fantasies has probably restored and sold hundreds of them out there in California. I always have one in my personal collection at all times. The one I have now is definitely a keeper that I doubt I will ever sell.
Just look at these three indicating factors as to the popularity of EBD:
1) Of all the titles to choose from, Eight Ball Deluxe was the machine AMTEX chose to make their landmark pinball simulation PC based game. They could have chosen any title but went with EBD. Later they released Gottlieb "Royal Flush" which was arguably the most-iconic EM from the 70s.
2) Of all the Bally titles, Eight Ball Deluxe & Kiss were the two IPB chose to make the lion's share of reproduction playfields & plastics for.
3) CPR is now planning their second production run of the EBD playfields & plastics and the pre-order list was filled faster than any other title I think they've ever had. And this comes after they made a large batch just a couple years ago. After CPR sells all of them there will still be people on here nagging them to make more.
That's definitely a 1981 machine so if you have the twist-in lamp sockets with printed circuit boards underneath the playfield someone added them. Also, the artwork for the 1981 machine was not decals originally. They are painted with stencils.
If the seller gave you some Alltek info that means he swapped out some of the original boards for aftermarket Alltek board(s). Alltek makes replacement MPU, lamp driver, and solenoid driver boards for Bally SS.
It sounds like you need to just go through your machine and perform some maintenance to all the playfield components. The pop bumpers should be every bit as powerful as the earlier Six Million Dollar Man. I would rebuild the flippers too. Do it all up nice and you won't have to mess with it again.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:
There was a short period where aftermarket decals were made for 1981 version of the game somewhere in the early 2000s.
They were complete garbage quality, but some brokers/dealers slapped them on a game for a quick sale, and it worked.
That's interesting. I remember 1984 reproduction decals being available but don't remember them for the 1981 machines.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:
Latest Mr. Pinball Price Guide puts EBDC up to 2568 units produced which surprised me as prior reports listed around 1500.
Trend prices of the 1984 version have overtaken the original, but this is most likely due to the increase of 1984 models "coming out of the corners" in response to continued desirability of the title, not necessarily based on condition.
It hasn't been my experience. A 1984 version in equal condition to an original 1981 will never be worth more to the vast majority of buyers. The 1981 version is by far the most-desirable. The 1984 comes in second and the Limited Edition is third.
The plastic guides are better when they are in good shape. Plus they look correct. Keep the metal ones on top.
Bally designed the game that way for good reason.
You can easily make your own from Lexan or buy new. They are inexpensive.
I have a box full of EBD metal guides that are worn-out and ruined with big burrs on the edges from placing them in contact with the balls. Some are really shot. The edges of the stainless guides than scratch the balls which wear the playfield too.
Quoted from Aurich:
I started a thread for this already ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/source-for-new-inlane-guides-for-eight-ball-deluxe ) but figured I'd ask here.
Looking for new inlane guides, the clear plastics that go under the metal. The CPR ones I got were weird and wrong, and my attempt to fix them still has bad ball hop from the plastic transition to the flipper.
Anyone know of options?
I have some I can probably sell you when I get back home over the 4th of July. After I get moved out here to Allentown I plan to laser-cut another big batch of them.
The CPR lane guides were "weird" because the holes were in the wrong location. It wasn't CPR's fault though. They simply copied an NOS set (which also had the holes in the wrong location). Every reproduction set from various sources have continued to perpetuate this mistake over the years.
Send me a PM with your contact info and I'll hook you up with a set. I think I have some good ones left.
I have yet to find any paint or powdercoat that is exactly the same color as the factory Bally legs but you can get real close. If you can find a dark charcoal gray powdercoat it might look pretty-good.
Here's some paint I use for mine:
The lower lane guides are on upside down. The clear plastic piece is supposed to be below the metal piece.
On EBD the ball is never supposed to touch the metal guide. The clear plastic is so it doesn't scratch the ball and metal guide isn't ruined (like a lot of them are from having them backwards like these). Plus the illumination is correct with the clear piece below the metal one.
Quoted from Bohdi:
That's what I always thought. I may switch them around, or I may just ditch the plastic. Never cared for the look, and it never damaged the ball before on my old EBD with just metal guides.
EBD is my specialty pin having restored a ton of them and I have seen numerous metal lane guides ruined from the owner placing them where the plastic guide piece is supposed to go. The metal guides not only scratch the ball which accelerates playfield wear, the guide itself is also ruined. After a while the metal guide will develop a burr on the leading edge. I've seen some worn so bad they are no longer functional.
Not to mention the illumination looks like shit with the metal guides blocking the light when placed in the wrong location.
The correct set-up is to have the metal guide on top with the replaceable plastic guide below. The metal guides are simply "garnishes" and are cosmetic. They are not supposed to touch the ball.
Quoted from Bohdi:
I know EBD is your specialty. Been sort of my "specialty" as well being my favorite pin etc. and having owned it twice and played the crap out of in the 80's. And I also know I shouldn't have just the metal guides on there. I think I've read ever one of your posts on this thread over time because you know your EBD. With that said, I will put the plastics on the bottom and the metal guides up top...
It's only common sense. You want the plastic piece to wear - not the ball.
It is designed to be replaceable and is inexpensive. In the field though, operators would do whatever necessary. Switching the two guide pieces around was a "rig" they did to keep the game running if they didn't have the correct plastic replacement. Long-term wear and tear was not a consideration.
Quoted from Captive_Ball:
Great...now that I hear all this while my example has only the metal guides....where can I get the metal spacers? Pinball Resource? Sure I could likely use something else too, if needed. I believe I saw in this thread someone had made the plastic replacement guides...will need to look further into that.
The metal spacers are not reproduced as far as I know although a few have asked if I was planning to reproduce them. You can find used ones on eBay occasionally. They were used on several Bally pins from the era.
The clear plastics are available from some of the parts vendors but the lower lane guides are also pretty-easy to make yourself if you have a bandsaw or a jigsaw and a sheet of the correct thickness Lexan or PETG. Once you replace the worn-out plastic guides with new ones, all the ball hop and other undesirable stuff from excessive wear goes away and the machine plays exactly as intended when new.
Quoted from MMP:
Aren't there a bunch of games that use metal lane guides similar to these?
Not that I know of. There is Bally Buck Rogers and a couple others with some type of metal blade as a lane guide but not Eight Ball Deluxe.
I think Bally realized that plastic would be a lot better than having the ball ride on a stainless steel blade and a lot less to replace once it wears. Plus it allows for better illumination.
I have posted these pics on here before but will do it again for those who haven't seen them.
I've developed a very easy technique to remove the metal posts and then re-form them to be re-used with the replacement plastics.
All you need is a lighter and something round that you can fit inside the metal post to pry it out of the plastic. Then you will need a wire stripper/crimper to re-form the top of the post.
I take the lighter and just wave it a few times underneath the metal post. About three seconds will do it. It comes out real easy. You don't want to overheat it or the plastics will be all gooey. You can still remove the post it's just messier to clean up if you overheat it. You'll get the hang of heating the post. Same goes if you use a soldering iron which works too. I've just found the lighter technique to be a little faster and easier.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:
Very helpful crash, what size drill bit was that?
I forget. It's like a 3/8" or about that size. Size isn't super-critical as long as it fits inside the post and can be used to pry it off. Once the post is heated with the lighter it can be pried right out of the plastic piece very easily. Like butter.
A piece of dowel rod or anything similar will also do the job. I just happened to have a drill bit handy.
Quoted from Shannyman:
Got a question. I have a 1981 Ebd. I bought a overlay from classic arcades. The problem is the 15 ball has a brown stripe. Did the 1984 or the le have a brown stripe on the 15 ball. I just don't want to tear down playfield to find this overlay won't fit. Thx for info.
All the playfields were the same. The 15 ball is supposed to have a red stripe on it (just like a real billiards 15 ball does).
Quoted from Bohdi:
This method works great Crash. Took a bit longer with the lighter in my case, but they came out with ease. Must say, crimping the top of the post is somewhat of a pain, but once you get it down, it's relatively simple, and effective. Have the upper right plastics all done, just upper left side left to go. Maybe i'll post some pics when done.
You get good at crimping the top of the posts after doing a few. You just work your way around the diameter of the post until you get it looking good. When you install the posts in the new plastics you can re-crimp the tops of the posts or leave them as-is. I never re-crimp them though. When you tighten the screws you re-crimp them to some extent.
Quoted from MMP:
Are those of you who have bought the repro plastic set happy with the quality? I'm trying to decide on this one.
For those of you who are using standard star posts are you using washers or anything to match the height of the taller ribbed posts?
The 1984 Bally/Midway 3rd version (Classic) came from the factory with blue star posts rather than the traditional Bally ribbed posts the previous two versions came with. Like the ribbed posts, the star posts came in two heights too.
Another difference that the final version had was it used the Nylon acorn nuts to secure the playfield plastics where the previous versions used the white rubber caps.
Quoted from MMP:
Thanks Gatecrasher. I'm about to tear my game down for topside cleaning and drop target maintenance. Was playing around with some color changes over the weekend and couldn't really figure out why two different heights of plastic posts were needed. When using modern star posts I just switched to shorter screws and posts.
I decided to stick with my original plastics for now. I'll try to heat and flatten a couple of the warped pieces. What do you all think about amber/yellow posts? I swapped out the lane guides for opaque red. Not sure about those yet, I may also try opaque yellow.
The reproduction plastics sets are very-nice. Definitely worth the investment if you choose to spruce it up a bit (although yours look to be pretty-nice).
The CPR EBD plastics are the nicest I've ever seen with the IPB coming in a close second.
The CPR plastics sets include a really-nice topper too as well as a spare pair of slingshot plastics and two key fobs. Awesome!
CPR has another run of EBD playfields in the works right now and they say they are also going to re-release the plastics too. I'd jump on a set when they become available if you plan to keep the machine.
Quoted from alimerick:
What was the original EBD1980 coin door setup? Did game come with 2 quarter slots and a middle SBA slot? Was the Bally coin door decal SBA or regular? Have seen it so many ways not sure?
The original EBD was released in 1981. When Bally pins were sold, they came with a manila envelope that had all the owner's paperwork and a manual, parts manual, a flyer, various score cards and coin inserts.
It was up to the owner to decide which inserts (how much to charge) and score cards (balls per game & difficulty) to use. The owner usually also specified how many coin mechs were installed. That's why some pins have 3 and others have the metal block-off plate in positions not being used.
The SBA dollar coin was minted from 1979-81 so most pins from that era included dollar inserts. I don't think the 1981 EBD had the EBD coin door decal though. Every one I've ever seen had the regular Bally decal. You see the SBA coin door decal on most Bally pins from 1979.
The SBA dollar was a flop so after 1979 you don't see a lot in use but I remember several arcades kept them alive beyond 1981 as the coin of choice from their change machines.
Quoted from mjwilliams:
I was just on CPR's website and I did not see the EBD plastics (ever) being listed. If they are the nicer looking ones, do you have a link for them by chance?
They used to show them in the gallery but they don't seem to be there anymore.
Here are some pictures I copied from the CPR website back when they had them in their gallery. They still have the protective coating on them in the pic.
Quoted from mjwilliams:
Wow! That is a nice looking set. If that was available I would buy it
According to the website the playfields are ready for screen printing so I would imagine we will see them in a few months. In addition to the plastics, I hope they do another run of the backglasses too.
A bit of trivia about the 1984-85 "Classic Edition" of Eight Ball Deluxe is that the score cards that came with the machine from the factory were the same as the previous version and said "Limited Edition" on them too.
Only the 1981 version had score cards that had just "Eight Ball Deluxe" on them.
That's why some people back in the 1980s referred to the 1984-85 version as the "Limited Edition" too like the 2nd gen.
It wasn't until many years later that I ever heard anyone call the 3rd edition the "Classic". I think someone named it the "Classic" just to differentiate it from the original "Limited Edition". Back when they were new we referred to the 3rd edition as the "Nice Guy Machine" because of the nicer-looking dude on the backbox with a wedding band on his finger as opposed to the ghoulish-looking character the original had.
I also have never seen a flyer for the 3rd edition. Has anyone else? I don't think any were printed as the machines were kind of rushed to production as Bally/Midway was going down the tubes financially.
As far as gameplay goes, all three versions are identical.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:
What color flipper rubbers were originally used on the 1984 edition?
I wouldn't say one color was an absolute for 1984-85 but a lot of them had yellow flipper rubbers but I've seen some with the red ones too. It's hard to recall plus most have been replaced several times over the years.
Quoted from tominator:
I would also like one of these toppers...are they still available?
Also, did anybody notice the mistake? it's QUIT talking and start chalking...not STOP talking...
Yeah you're right. It's like those repop score cards that say "Eightball Deluxe" instead of the correct "Eight Ball Deluxe".
I think I have like 3 of the toppers brand-new with the protective coating still on the pieces.
One thing to look at is the top edge of the metal slot that the target rests on.
I've seen some that are worn at the edge which makes the target not rest on it properly when in the up position.
Another thing to look at is how the metal slot aligns with the opening in the playfield. Sometimes the factory mounting holes are a little off location and when installed there isn't enough clearance between the slot in the wood and the metal ledge for the target to rest on the metal ledge like it should.
Quoted from Bohdi:
Received my replacement 8 ball target yesterday. This one is actually worse than the 1st one. Target barely even stays in the up position. Putting the piece of shit bullseye target back in. The only target that works. I've given up...
Never give up. Especially on something like this.
If one target works and another doesn't, the best thing to do is to try and make the one that doesn't work match the one that does. Take a file or whatever and modify the new one in the shelf area to match. Actually I think you have another problem if two brand-new targets won't work.
One thing to think about if this is considered an insurmountable problem to solve is that you are going to have a lot more difficult issues come up down the road crop-up with your pinball machine.
Consider it a challenge and take a break from it if you get frustrated. I know I do too sometimes. Revisit it a few days later when you have enough time to really get to the bottom of the problem without getting pissed off. Once you finally solve it, you'll be glad you did and will feel more confident later as other problems crop up.
It's a good feeling when you finally solve a nagging problem like this. One of the most-satisfying most of us get from the hobby.
Games like EBD simply look better with incandescent bulbs.
The only area I would consider placing LEDs would be in the pop caps and possibly some areas in then backbox..
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Yes and no. It's definitely opinion. Some cool retro bulbs out there look very nice.
The problem with the LE is the incandescent bulb. Much easier to just get rid of that poor design and go with LEDs.
Yeah but then it doesn't look they way it is supposed to. For those of us purists who played these machines when they were new, LEDs look wrong. Younger pinball fans who weren't around back then are usually more open to mods like this.
My linears work perfect. If you rebuild them correctly they work fine.
Make sure the stop bracket and the bushing bracket isn't cocked or bent. There isn't a whole lot to them really. It looks like they were recently rebuilt but may need some tweaking if they bind up.
It addition to re-soldering the poor connections I would check the lower left flipper. It has a stacked switch setup. Make sure that one set of contacts on the lower left flipper are N.C. "normally closed" like the other two flippers and the other set of contacts on the lower left flipper are N.O "normally open".
Post a picture of your lower left flipper mech like you did for the upper showing the position of the flipper bat in the up and down positions.
Quoted from Hiram:
I'm a new EBD owner. My machine needs more than a few things, but it is a solid base for a rebuild. Cabinet needs minor touch up, plastics and bumper tops are on order. My shortfalls are going to be a backglass and a new play field.
I saw that Bay Area just sold out of the backglass. Anyone know when the next batch will be made or if there is somewhere to get on a list?
Thanks in advance for any help...
CPR is currently making a limited number of EBD playfields and they say there will be more plastics sets to go along with them. I haven't heard if they plan to make any more backglasses but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Don't order online unless you just can't find it. Hardware stores carry most of these fuses in the section where the little parts bins are. Near the screws/bolts, where the "parts" section is. Almost all have some sort of fuses. Do however look out and get the correct rating. Don't cheat or you'll cause yourself more headaches.
I don't think you'll find all of the fuses in hardware stores. At least none of the ones I shop at seem to have a super selection. Some of the more common ones they will have.
Even Radio Shack never seems to have them all.
Just about every town of any size has at least one electrical supply store though. They usually have all of them in stock and if they don't can get them. Most industrial supply stores have a good selection too but you can get all of them online (and usually for a better price).
Shop around. Big Daddy carries them all.
Quoted from jrobinso99:
I agree 100%. Games originally designed to be linear should stay linear. It absolutely impacts game play, especially tap passes which are a key strategy on these early Bally titles. If your linear flippers are not playing right they just need to be fixed not replaced.
There definitely is a difference. Some people don't really care and I can understand that but I do because part of the thrill for me with the pinball hobby is re-living my youth when we would dump every quarter we had into these pins. I want the machine to play just like it did back in the 80s. The 1st thing I do with games like EBD is to totally rebuild the flipper mechs. Not half-assed. Replace everything with maybe only the coil being the exception. Every other part is replaced with new. Then you don't ever have to mess with them again.
Another thing I always have on all my early SS titles are the coin mechs fully-functional as well as the knockers and free balls/games just like they were on location. None of my pins are set to free play. You have to "feed" them just like we did in 1981.
It's part of the excitement. Grab a few quarters and see how long you can go before the money runs out.
If you come to my house you better bring some quarters! lol
For earlier SS pins that didn't use the linear flippers I always keep them original too. That's the way they are supposed to be. There is a subtle (but noticeable) difference between the two styles.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
I like the way they play too. i bet some people do it purely from a cost saving perspective. linear flipper rebuilds are like twice as expensive as other types of flipper mechs.
Yeah the linears cost more to rebuild. That's why some people tend to cut corners and then whine when they still have some problems. After 40 years on location and sitting in storage they almost always need to have just about everything replaced. Then they are good forever in a non-commercial setting.
You can still make a nice EBD without linear flippers and incandescent lamps but I'm a purist... especially when it comes to Eight Ball Deluxe which is like the "Holy Grail" of pins for me.
I do have some that have the playfields clear-coated though and that tends to change gameplay too. I guess I'm not a total purist after all. lol
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:
Need some help here on an EBDLE. I have a guy who is missing the plugs and wires from the rectifier at J3 and J4. I know by schematics what goes there and where it goes to on EBD and the classic versions. The LE version terminates differently and I need to know type and size of plugs, etc. Any info and pics would be great. Thanks!
I always thought they were all the same as far as the rectifier board goes.
I must not understand your question then? They all use the same Molex connectors to the rectifier board. I think the wires are all the same color too.
You can get new connectors from Big Daddy. I have them all as well as the insert removal tools and crimper.
Quoted from emkay:
Fit just fine. Did any of these have factory Mylar?
A lot of the owners chose to install the factory-supplied Mylar. It was up to the buyer.
I remember back in 1981 a lot of the machines I used to play on location had the Mylar although every now and then we'd come across one that didn't. I've had several EBDs over the years and some have it and others don't. Those without the Mylar tend to be worn to bare wood in several areas.
Quoted from Humph:
I just received an EBD plastics set from Bay Area Amusements, but don't know where this particular clear plastic goes.
It's pictured on Bay Area's website, but I can't find a home for it on the playfield.
There is another plastic I received in the set not pictured on Bay Area's website, but is the clear plastic left of the eight ball drop target.
Thanks in advance.
There are a couple mistakes with the clear plastics for Eight Ball Deluxe that have been perpetuated over the years even in the reproduction sets. The piece you have shown is an extra clear plastic piece that is incorrect and not used. The holes in the lower bottom lane guides are also usually incorrect.
This has been discussed many times before in other threads.
Just throw the incorrect piece away. You don't need it and no one knows why it was ever included.
Eventually someone will make a reproduction set that doesn't have the extra incorrect piece. Apparently the original replacement plastics sets from Bally had this error and no one who has ever made the reproductions has ever known enough about the game to delete it or spot the lower lane guide holes in the correct location. They just continue to copy them and perpetuate the errors. At least it's an extra piece and not one you need to remake.
Here's a picture of a CPR Eight Ball Deluxe plastics set. Just like every one of these ever made it has the two errors. The extra piece you have plus the lower clear lane guides have the holes in the wrong location.
I posted this in the Allentown Pinfest thread yesterday but will post it here too. I have a framed NOS 1981 Bally Eight Ball Deluxe Backglass for $400 I can bring to the show. I purchased this years ago. The guy I bought it from said his father had it professionally-framed when it was new in the early 1980's. I have never had it out of the frame or even looked at the backside but it appears to be good from the front. The frame alone is probably worth $100.
Although this could be removed from the frame and used in a machine, it would kind of be a shame. It makes an awesome wall decoration for a game room or mancave.
Sold as-is. I will not remove it from the frame or separate.
I bought this along with a framed NOS Bally Playboy backglass probably ten years ago in the exact same type of frame and ended-up using the Playboy. It has been stored indoors in a climate-controlled environment for the entire time I have owned it.
I think this is like the third or fourth time I've posted this but it comes up often so I'm glad I saved the pics. I think it's even posted earlier in this thread.
The soldering iron technique works but I prefer this method because it is faster and easier. All it takes is one or two seconds with a lighter. If you heat the post longer than that the plastic will start to melt. Not the end of the world but makes the job messier. Just a quick wave of the flame to heat the metal post is all you need and it will pull right out of the plastic.
Now the post is ready to be inserted in the new plastic piece. You can re-crimp the post if you like or just leave it as-is (which is what I usually do). Once everything it screwed-down it's good to go.
I probably wouldn't have used acrylic. Acrylic doesn't really have a high impact strength and tends to break when used in applications like this unless it contains an impact modfier. Polycarbonate would have been better. While acrylic has a little-better clarity and doesn't yellow over time, polycarbonate has far-greater impact strength (15 times greater than acrylic) which is important for these parts.
A few years ago these same EBD playfield pieces made from acrylic were available from the retail pinball parts suppliers and on eBay and I bought a few sets. They didn't last too long. Most of them broke. That's why you don't see them for sale anymore. At least not the acrylic ones.
I have made these same pieces you just made out of polycarbonate (Lexan) and they hold-up well over time. They are basically indestructable and still look good years later too.
Another advantage polycarbonate has over acrylic and PETG is a higher resistance to heat which helps if you are using conventional incandescent lamps in the machine.
Here's what I use to make the pieces you just did. I still have two partial sheets left:
Here's a close-up of one of the Lexan lane guides on a fresh EBD playfield swap:
If you look at the schematic you will be able to tell which SCRs are related to the non-functioning lamps. You don't need to replace them all. Only the ones that aren't working. The semi hack-job you show in the pictures are where some SCRs and resistors were already replaced. The wires were added because the circuit board traces were damaged. It's an ugly fix but it looks like it should have worked.
Which lamps near the deluxe targets are not working? The balls or the saucers? Can you point them out?
You can then look at the schematic and determine exactly which board and the exact components you need to be focused on. It might not be the auxiliary lamp driver board depending on which lamps are out.
I think I have about ten of those auxiliary lamp driver boards laying around if that ends-up being the problem. I'll give you a clean one for free if you want it. You pay the shipping.
Quoted from manples:
It's ball #3 (solid) and ball #12 (stripes).
I supposed that hieroglyph somewhat tells me what components might be faulty right ?
Yes. All you probably need to replace are those two SCRs. No reason to replace any that are working. Same goes for your solenoid driver board. If it ain't broke... don't fix it (although I might be tempted to replace just the two large electrolytic caps just for good measure).
I would put a voltmeter onto the output pins for the two lamps that aren't working just to make sure you don't have a connector issue before replacing the SCRs.
Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you an Aux lamp board and a couple SCRs. All you pay for is the shipping. I think it will all fit in a small USPS Priority Mail flat-rate box which costs $7.15 to ship.
Quoted from ArnieC:
I am looking for this plastic. I sat the lock bar on the head, went to move the game and it fell and busted the plastic. If you have one let me know what you need for it shipped to Lincoln Ne. Thanks.
You'll probably have a hard time finding just that one piece in decent condition. The entire plastic sets are available though for around $150 I think.
Quoted from charliex:
I have a 1981 EBD and I can't get the star rollover on the left ramp to register anything but slow rolls. Fast shots over the roll over are missed every time. I have replaced the cap. Is there an update or better way to make sure shots up this ramp register?
If the switch is adjusted properly and the roll-over is freely moving you might need to replace the switch. When I restore and EBD I usually end-up replacing that switch with a new one. You need to have it adjusted properly and be in excellent working order. More so than any of the others.
It's just a leaf switch. You can easily rebuild it as mentioned above or buy one for a slingshot, take it apart and use just the blades out of the new one. Use the same spring blade and everything else from the original Bally switch stack. Then you have a brand-new roll-over switch. The slingshot switches are about $5 from PBR, Marco and most other vendors. If you lose any pieces you will have some extras from the slingshot stack.
I always use the Bally spring blade though rather than the straight spring blades most repop switch stacks come with.
I think CPR will probably retain the pale white rather than the custard which isn't a big deal but I think there will be a few improvements over some of the minor issues the previous edition had.
One would be the hole diameter for the lamps was too small last time these were made and they had to be opened-up for the factory #555 lamp sockets to fit through. The Fathoms were like this too. I think all the post-1980 playfields CPR made had the issue. They were made to the #44 socket size which is a little smaller. It wasn't a show-stopper but was time-consuming and kind of a PITA to open them all up a few thousandths of an inch with a Dremel tool while taking extra care not to damage the clear coat. Kevin at CPR emailed me a while back asking for the correct hole size and I provided him with the info so I would assume the issue is now in the past for them going forward.
There was also another hole that was spotted in the wrong area near the top if I recall that I hope they correct.
Even with those two flaws the EBD playfields from the original CPR run are very nice. These next ones should be even better. The guys at CPR seem to care about continuous improvement of their products.
I haven't received word from CPR yet on my order but am glad they are now starting to ship.
Quoted from Fifty:
I have a loaner EBD in my basement for a while. I haven't worked on a lot of SS pinball machines so I need some assistance while I get up to speed.
I need to understand how the pin is suppose to play. After you knock down all the drops on the right side of the pin you are supposed to hit the 8-ball drop target. After that, you shoot for the saucer behind the 8-ball drop target. Once you are in the saucer, the solenoid kicks the ball out through the gate, back into the rollover area.
This is the way it is supposed to work correct?
On the EBD I have, when you shoot for the saucer the ball sails right through the gate to the rollover area. It looks like there is a metal ball stop that is supposed to engage to stop the ball right before the saucer but the one on this EBD isn't activating. Maybe I'm just seeing things? What is supposed to stop the ball so that it doesn't sail right through the gate?
I took a look through the manual, but I don't see any reference to a ball stop in this area. I see that #17 is the solenoid and #34 is the switch.
Could someone please clarify for me. Thank you.
This is a fairly common issue with EBD. If you look at the clear plastic piece that guides the ball towards the saucer, there is a "hump" on it right before the saucer hole that is supposed to direct the ball into the saucer. If this plastic piece becomes worn, or is loose or somehow out of whack, the ball can scoot right on past the restriction missing the saucer hole and going on through the gate. When the plastics are new and installed correctly the ball will go into the hole 99% of the time. However, if you hit on just right with enough force you may have it go past the saucer hole even with the clear plastic adjusted properly.
Here's the plastic piece:
Here it is installed. Notice the "hump". It's purpose is to re-direct the ball as is rolls up the guide into a more narrow restriction that forces it into the saucer hole. When adjusted properly (and not worn-out) it will do the job 99% of the time. Only a freakish shot where the ball bounces off the guide and doesn't have a chance to slow down by hitting the hump will allow it to fly right past the saucer hole.
See if you can loosen the screws holding the plastic piece in place and force the clear plastic closer to the saucer hole thus reducing the restriction (making the ball path more narrow) and then re-tighten the screws. See if that helps. Usually you can adjust it to the point that the restriction is so narrow that the ball won't even pass through it. If you go too far tweak it a little until you get the gap just right.
If not, you probably need to buy a new plastics set or at least the one piece.
Quoted from Fifty:
I checked out the hump on the plastic last night. The plastic looks almost brand new. I can clearly see a hump there. A roll test deflected the ball directly into the saucer every time, but like you said the bounce off the plastic can bypass the hump and send the ball soaring through the gate. I somehow managed to do this 4 times in one game and have the ball go straight through.
As far as I can see there is no way to adjust this plastic. I'll play test it a bit more and see what happens.
You can adjust it slightly. You have to loosen the screws and then push on the plastic piece closer and then retighten. It ain't rocket-science. If you can't move the upper clear piece enough, loosen the screws to the lower one and move it too. Restrict the opening gap.
When everything is adjusted correctly the ball will very rarely go past the saucer hole. If you can't get the gap close enough to do the job you need a new plastic piece.
Quoted from sudsy7:
Gotta ask - why would CPR use semi-transparent ink knowing that playfield wood "character" is going to show through it?
You know that's probably a good question for Kevin to answer. It would definitely have been nice to have Stu tweak some of the color imperfections out of the Fabulous Fantasies artwork but maybe they just didn't have the time or resources available. The playfields are still awesome as-is and CPR did make some improvements since their first run of these.
These newest versions are far better than most NOS playfields still left in existence at this point in time. I'm sure glad I got on the list.
Eight Ball Deluxe is one of the best pinball machines ever made (if not the best). There will always be a demand for parts for EBD and I wouldn't be too surprised if CPR decides to make a 3rd run of these sometime in the future. The demand is obviously there. Just look at how fast this latest batch sold out. I bet it was faster than any other title they have ever done. I wish they would have made more plastics sets too! The CPR plastics sets were the best ever made IMO. There's a demand for more EBD backglasses too.
Gene knew which ones to make too. EBD and Kiss were the best two to make from Bally. I still have one of each that I purchased new from IPB back when they were still being made. I hope CPR makes the Kiss they are taking pre-orders for too.
Another Bally playfield I'd really like to see CPR make is Harlem Globetrotters. They were planning to make them but it fell through over some licensing issues or something.
So Kevin, are you guys planning to make another batch of the plastics sets?
How about the backglasses?
If you do decide to make another batch of plastics you have the opportunity to be the first one to make the clear plastics correctly by eliminating the unused pieces and locating the holes in the lower lane guides correctly. Every plastic set made has had these errors. Even old NOS ones.
The plastic sets that are still available are nice but the CPR ones were nicer plus they had the cool topper and an extra set of slingshot plastics and a couple key fobs too.
Quoted from Humph:
Big shout out to Gatecrasher for supplying me with some EBD resto parts.
Great quality & prices, and received items in just a few days.
Thanks for the endorsement Humph!
I'm getting ready to move here again in a few weeks for my job so if anyone needs any parts now would be the time to order. I might not be able to ship any for a while in a couple weeks until after I get resettled.
My complete EBD restoration kits include the following signature parts:
EBD uses the following (all are essential to a 1st class restoration):
>Polished stainless lift channel & 3-pc. plastic edge trim for 1/8" thick backglass = $20.99
>Polished stainless shooter lane arch = $4.99
>Polished stainless shooter lane ball stop "L" bracket = $4.99
>Stainless coin door & side rail carriage bolt set = $9.99
Shipping to USA via USPS Priority Mail = $10.30
TOTAL = $51.26
International shipping available (actual shipping costs with no extra handling fees) the lowest prices possible via USPS!
Quoted from jznethan:
Update and b4/after pics on my machine coming sometime next week (I've had it since i was a kid in the 80's and it sat untouched for over two decades). It's coming along and playing but for now, a question for other EBD owners..
Im In search of m-1330-184-11 which is the clear plastic that divides the multiplier lane from the rollover lane. towards the bottom a chunk is missing that prevents the final support from having a spot.
Also m-1330-189-4 if the price is right. has a bite out of it but not a big deal. i can live w it.
From the looks of your pictures and your description it sounds to me like you best course of action would be to totally strip the playfield of all the plastics, posts, rubbers, screws, etc. and replace all of the playfield plastics with new from a reproduction set. They cost about $150.
While the stuff is removed clean the playfield up nice and wax it. Then clean all the plastic posts and screws/washers which look like they are slightly corroded.
When you reassemble everything you will be amazed at how much better they thing looks and plays. If you bite the bullet now and do it right you won't have to fool with it for years.
Keep any of the salvageable playfield plastics as emergency back-ups in case you need one down the road.
This is what is referred to as "shopping" the playfield. Not a full restoration but a thorough maintenance/cosmetic cleaning procedure.
A machine like Eight Ball Deluxe is well-worth the cost of the playfield plastic set and the work required to PM it.
I wouldn't clear-coat it with a spray can.
Go buy one of the new PETG playfield protectors. Totally protects it plus improves gameplay if you have any sunken inserts.
I have a Bally Rolling Stones with an NOS fully-assembled playfield in it and have a protector on it. Awesome! The playfield is preserved underneath and the protector can be easily removed if I ever chose to do so. I'm getting another one for my immaculate Kiss machine next. It has a really-nice original playfield in it like your Eight Ball Deluxe does.
Quoted from dasvis:
The only drawback to playfield protectors is star rollover switches, on a slow roll in certain places the ball can hang up on the edge. Not often, but it does happen. That being said, I have one on my Old Chicago & love it.
I don't think he'll have that with EBD. The star is up high in the lane. My Rolling Stones has twin star roll-overs and I haven't had a hang-up yet. The newer protectors are thinner than they used to be which helps too.
I would keep the nice playfield original and use a protector before I would have it professionally clear-coated. You can always replace it with an aftermarket playfield if you want a clear coated one but they are only original once.
Quoted from Lovef2k:
For coin lockout coil, just desolder one wire and cap it with a small wire nut. No need to remove both wires. Don't cut it as you will shorten the wire and ruin the wire harness.
You don't even need to do that. Just remove the little "flapper" (it comes right off easily) and leave the wires intact. If you ever want to put it back to factory you can put the flapper right back on in 2 seconds. I usually leave the flapper inside the cabinet or coin box.
I have a new gold CPR Eight Ball Deluxe playfield and a OEM 1981 Bally backglass for sale as a kit for $1400 + shipping.
I will post pics later tonight.
In addition I will add the following signature parts for the restoration:
>New stainless lift channel + plastic edge trim for the 1/8" thick EBD backglass
>New stainless shooter lane arch (hood) and out hole ball stop "L" bracket
>New stainless coin door & side rail carriage bolt set
>New stainless lock bar carriage bolt + nut & washer
Quoted from Gatecrasher:
I have a new gold CPR Eight Ball Deluxe playfield and a OEM 1981 Bally backglass for sale as a kit for $1400 + shipping.
I will post pics later tonight.
In addition I will add the following signature parts for the restoration:
>New stainless lift channel + plastic edge trim for the 1/8" thick EBD backglass
>New stainless shooter lane arch (hood) and out hole ball stop "L" bracket
>New stainless coin door & side rail carriage bolt set
>New stainless lock bar carriage bolt + nut & washer
Here are the pics as promised.
The playfield is a brand-new CPR "Gold" and the backglass is genuine Bally NOS (the backglass was the one in the frame I had for sale earlier).
Why even cut them when you don't have to?
Here are your options for eliminating the annoying noise from the coin lockout mechanism:
#1) Just remove the flapper and the spring. It take less than a minute to do. This mechanically disables the mechanism and you will no longer hear the sound. The coil will still be energized periodically but that doesn't hurt anything. This takes maybe 30 seconds to do and is easy. Fully reversible too with no loose wires.
#2) If you want to disable the mechanism electrically just take a small screwdriver and remove the contact at connector pin #8 on the solenoid driver connector J2. This takes about 10 seconds to do and is also clean and easily reversed.
#3) Cut or de-solder the wires. This is the easiest (and shittiest) way to do it but it works.
I kind of miss the reasoning for some of the "free play"options used by many.
I can understand why some might want to just push the button and not have to drop a coin into a machine used in a home environment.
When you take a machine to a show you also might want it set to free play.
But you don't need to do any mods or hacks to achieve this.
Quoted from Mageek:
How does one achieve this without any modifications? Hope you aren't suggesting setting a ridiculously low replay score to get credits. That may be fine for shows but I still like to try to achieve a "free" game at the normal scoring levels even in the home environment.
That's exactly how you do it. Set the 1st replay level to 100 points and then make the 2nd replay level what the 1st would normally be and make the 3rd level what the 2nd would normally be.
That way you get the free play plus still have full functionality of the free game scoring levels. No mods needed at all and you retain full functionality of the replay features too. Absolutely no difference from wiring up a switch except you only have two replay score levels instead of the possibility of having three.
On the other hand when you activate the free play function of an aftermarket MPU it disables the free playing scoring altogether. Same goes for most of the hacked ROMs I've seen. Even if there are reprogrammed ROMs that enable free play + still allow replay scoring for additional free games, you haven't achieved anything that you couldn't have by setting the 1st replay scoring level low.
In my home environment though I leave all the coin mechs fully functional exactly as they were intended. In other words, there is no free play. You must insert the quarter to play. That's what makes game play the most fun for me since that's the way I was playing these machines when they were brand-new.
Quoted from jj44114:
Because they were the original design, and I think they look better than the amber ones.
Everyone is entitled to their own preference I guess but I highly-doubt anyone will ever reproduce them because the demand would be low. They didn't illuminate very well and the amber ones became a highly-recognizable feature of the game. They are rare though. I sold a few scabby ones several years ago to a guy who had an early machine that supposedly originally came with them.
Quoted from Lovef2k:
It's been ages since I have read this thread. Has anyone had issues with the repro plastic sets? Mainly the clear flipper return lane and the upper right 8 ball inner clear. I have 3 sets and none are correct. What have you guys done to get around this?
Where have you been? This topic has been discussed more times than I can count over the past decade or so.
Every reproduction plastic set as well as every NOS Bally plastic set since the beginning of time has the same error. That's why the reproductions are the way they are. Everyone just continues to copy the screwed-up NOS sheet artwork. No one really knows the story on the NOS artwork. It's just screwed-up. Holes are in the wrong location for the lower lane guides and there are pieces that don't even belong to EBD.
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a correct set reproduced because an EBD expert has never made them. People just continue to copy the same errors over and over.