Thank you! I haven’t even turned on the game with things plugged in, was still repinning and cleaning up. Pretty sure I’m almost ready. Thank you for checking that, looks good to go

I have a couple of issues with my EBD-LE that I'm not sure how to address. These two issues may or may not be related.

1) The sound effects on the machine will periodically go "quiet". Not completely silent, but just the volume will suddenly switch to very low - but ONLY on the sound effects (including background sounds). The voice effects remain at the normal volume. This volume change will come and go, sometimes multiple times per game. Since the voice effects don't change, I assume that it is not a problem with the remote volume control or with the speaker. I would think it would have to be something on the Squawk & Talk board itself.

2) After the machine has been on for an hour or so, it starts having some problems (perhaps due to something getting hot). Many of the switched lights will start flickering rapidly. It's also like the CPU is running slowly or something, as sounds start being played in sort of a delayed pattern, and the scoring seems to be slowed down as well. This is hard to describe, but for example, when tallying up the bonus, it takes longer to increase the score (and play the sound) for each drop target.

Relevant info...I've owned the machine for MANY years, and this is a fairly new problem. Most of the boards have been replaced over the years, and it has been converted to LEDs. It has Altek CPU, Altek Lamp Driver, and Altek Aux Lamp Driver. The power board was replaced recently as well. It still has the original Solenoid Driver and Squawk & Talk boards.

As a simple test, I tried unplugging the S&T board while the machine was in its "overheated?" mode, on the chance that it was the S&T board causing the issues, but that made no difference. Note that while in this mode, the machine still plays okay (all solenoids work, etc.), it's just "strange" - and the flashing is kind of annoying.

If any of you have seen something like this, or have suggestions of what to try, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

I don't have anything "specific" to offer, just a couple of suggestions to help narrow down:

1 - The sound issues can very well be capacitor related, especially if the S&T board hasn't had any refreshing done in a while or ever. My first troubleshooting step for that symptom would be to replace all the caps in the S&T board.

2 - For the potentially heat-related problem with control lamps flickering....that flickering is a common issue when running LEDs on original lamp boards, but you have Allteks which should be fine. In case there's something failing on the Alltek and contributing to the flicker, try spraying some Cool Spray on the lamp board components while the flickering is taking place and see if that has any affect. If you don't have actual Cool Spray handy, you could also use a can of compressed air and spray while holding the can upside down. That works in a pinch.

3 - A video would go a long way in better illustrating the problems as well if it's possible for you to get a recording of the issues as they're happening.

Besides re-capping the sound board, replace the volume pots. They are notorious for being flaky at this age. They are an open design and subjected to dirt and corrosion. The new style is a closed design and work much better. In the mean time you can try giving them a few full turns in each direction to see if if helps. Also try contact cleaner just to get by for now.

Other issues, it could be the voltage regulator going bad on solenoid driver. Or other issue with solenoid driver. A connector issue as well between the boards. Try re-seating some connectors.

You mentioned new rectifier board, it also could be the culprit. Failing bridge rectifier. If heatsink is on bottom and mates to the heavy plate in the cab did you add heat transfer compound?

The chances of me being able to re-cap the S&T board (without causing worse issues) is very low. I may send out the board to Chris Hibler and have him check/repair the board, but I will examine the volume pots on the board first - it's possible that they are just dirty.

The bigger issue is the "over-heating" issue. I am assuming that it is heating since it only happens if the machine has been on for about an hour or more. I will try to make a video of it - the symptoms are very hard to describe. The flickering is not "normal LED flicker", it's something else.

For one thing, when it serves the ball (before you plunge it) the flickering is extreme (and has almost a rhythm to it), but once a switch is triggered, it settles down some (but is still noticeable). And like I said above, it's almost like the CPU is running slower.

Getting some Cold Spray is a good idea, I can get it into "hot" mode, and then spray the "suspects" one by one and see if I can find the guilty party.

As for the rectifier board, it's the one from Pinball Life that has the heat sinks on top. I can try Cool Spraying that too, and see if it helps.

I haven't tried to post a video here before. I think I have to put it up on YouTube and then point to it from here, correct?

I'm stripping a lamp insert panel and I noticed a discrepancy on a wire color. For match I have a orange wire. Manual says it should be black and blue. Can anyone verify please? All the other colors match up.

My EBD schematic says Orange....

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That explains it. My manual is a copy and i just noticed the lower right corner shows ebd Ltd. Ugh. The cover is showing 81 version game 1220. I'll be referring to your pic I'm sure. Thanks!

My '84 came with a different manual but has the '81 schematics. Same as Mathazar's.

That's how I do it.

The 81 and the 84 might have the same colors idk. LE probably different due to the different cab configuration.

I have two repro manuals. The one with the Ltd schematic I think is a Marco. I'll have to look through my invoices to make sure. The other is a licensed copy from PPS and has the correct schematic for the backbox wiring.

The Marco has the Ltd cabinet wiring also. If I can find out for sure where I got this I will bring it to their attention. If you got a manual from Marco, check the schematic pages for backbox and cab. It will have the game name printed on the lower right corner. The manual for the 81 will have game 1220 on th3 front cover.

Yes, this is the original Solenoid board, and no, no caps have been replaced. Would a problem on the solenoid board manifest as flickering on the controlled lamps? All the solenoids (including those off of the solenoid expander circuit) work fine.

Alltek has great customer service. I would tell them what's going on. It may be an issue w the lamp driver. Is it all the lamps or just a group of them?

I'm still trying to get a video of it posted. Of course, the flashing is distorted by the frame rate of the video anyway, so it may not be as obvious as I hope.

It seems to be on all the switched lamps, but also seems to be more obvious on the pop bumpers and on the "flashing lanes" that border the 8-ball and the multiplier targets.

This video shows the "normal" behavior when the machine is cold.

This video shows the "unusual" behavior when the machine is hot.

While the ball is in the shooter lane, note the almost rhythmic flashing of the pop bumpers and lights alongside the 8-ball and multiplier lanes.
Once the ball hits the first rollover, the flashing stops. This is very consistent.

What the video doesn't do a good job of showing is that the sound is distorted too. This is most noticeable when it is trying to "add up" a bunch of points (for example when hitting the extra ball lane rollover for 70K). Instead of the normal "chumm-chumm-chumm", it sort of goes "chumm.....chumm.....chumm". It has a similar "slow down" when recording the points for the bonus.

Thanks! I’ll try and report back

Hit the U14 chip on the MPU board with some freeze spray when it starts misbehaving.

I've ordered freeze spray from Amazon, but it will be a few days before it arrives.

Note that the MPU board I am running is the Altek one. Will it still be U14 that I want to check on that board?

Do you have a particular suspicion about U14? Have you seen something similar to this behavior in the past?

Argh, I missed that point.
The issue you're having sounds related to the zero crossing signal which on a factory MPU board is detected by U14.
Alltek changed the chip location numbers, even between board revisions :-/
To rev K it's U3, rev L it's U12.

If you still have the factory Bally MPU board, give it a try.
Have you also noticed if momentary solenoids sometimes activate longer than they should?

I'm not sure which version of the Alltek board I have, but it's a pretty old one (I'll have to check when I get home). It still has AA batteries on it.
I do still have my factory board somewhere, but it was having problems, which is why I replaced it long ago.

I have not noticed any problems with the solenoids at all, but most of the momentary ones on EBD are drop target resets, so if they were activating for a longer than normal period, it probably wouldn't be obvious.

EBD anyone? I have been sitting on 3 '81 version EBD for about 5 years. Big move and some health issues have slowed me down. I'm getting back into the swing here finally. Maybe these pics will inspire anybody that has this game sitting in a corner and left all alone.

I want to give a heads up to anyone buying or has bought end plates for Bally drop target banks. I bought P-1369-5(right) from PBR, they didn't have the left in stock. Found the left at Marco. When I went to install the nyliner, I could not fit in the hole, yeah I know that sounds like a personal problem, so comparing to an original, the hole should be 5/16 and the new ones were only 1/4. I drilled the holes out so no big deal. I was under the impression that these were NOS parts, maybe they were and used on older games, IDK but the part numbers match for EBD. The ones from Marco look much newer and slightly different finish on the metal. I just found this out today and will let both suppliers know about it.

I'm having trouble finding paint to match the EBD cab. When I did my earlier restos, I used oil based paint. Now it's hard to find, if at all, and it's not the best way to go for a pin cab and the stencils. Sherwin Wms messed up the first attempt and the cream color, that actually has some green in it. So apparently the new paints have a variation with colors. He used the last can of tint base to make that one and he tried to correct it and made worse. They are out of tint base for all 3 colors until next week. I did find that Liquitex yellow oxide is a dead match for the gold on EBD. If anyone has suggestions for EBD paint, I'm all ears!

Chrome from HRA about 5 years ago. Lamp panel cut at wood shop using router and old panel as template. I then used the old panel to xfer the hole locations for all the screws. I will then paint them white and change over to bayonet sockets. As you can see some of the parts on the table have been re-plated, zinc and/or nickel. Pop bumper rings, trough parts, score display trays are just some of the parts I do in nickel.

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So for some reason the backboxes on 2 of the 3 games I got were pretty beat up. Factory defects where the back panel isn't flush with the sides doesn't help. I picked up another head but the rear panel was cut out to make a display at an old op's arcade. But the front and sides are rather nice still so I will make an attempt to repair it. The big test will be cutting new vent slots to match.

I also acquired a Black Jack head that was decent and am converting to EBD. It had this round hole drilled through the back for some unexplainable reason that I had to fill.

I will be building new base cabs for 2 of the games as well.

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Interesting find: Same coil numbers, one has 3 lugs and 2 diodes. The double tap version looks original, nothing removed to convert it.

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Looking good Rich. White pop bumper caps! Nice!

I reached a new low for scoring in a EBD game last night
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I just checked my score spreadsheet and I got 19,030 in a full game sometime in 2010. Ugh.

Must have been lane, pop, drain x3.

Bally 1st generation D/T end plates have the smaller hole...
EM style.... late 1979 D/T assemblies were revised.

@Lovef2k, Ooooooo.......where'd ya get those sweet white pop caps and
trim rings?????

I think the Black Jack backbox is deeper than the EBD backbox, am I right?

I think the Black Jack backbox is deeper than the EBD backbox, am I right?

Bally was having trouble with quality control...

For those of you who were helping with my over-heating problem, I have a small amount of new information.

It seems that just keeping the backglass off of the machine is enough to keep it from overheating. Unfortunately, this makes it harder to diagnose, as I have to let the machine heat up, then quickly remove the glass and open it up, and then quickly spray it with cooling spray, before it naturally cools down.

It appears that the problem is on the Alltek CPU board, but I haven't been able to narrow it down to a specific component.

I guess my next step is to contact Alltek and see how they want me to proceed. I've never used their "lifetime" warranty before, and this board is pretty old now (it is actually one with AA batteries on it - before they went to NVRAM). Have any of you guys had one of their boards repaired/replaced by them before?

I have. They are great to deal with. If your board is the problem, they will either fix or replace your board. Since it’s so old I would think they may just replace it.

Hi EBD experts my project game is playing great after a lot more woodworking than I wanted to do because of water damage.

It has no sound so I have a few EBD specific questions.

LED locks on immediately with good voltages at test points +5.07 -4.86 + 13.7 so here are the EBD questions

It has U4 missing and jumpers match the parts manual. Can I get any flashes without U4?

It has an AY-3-8912 chip in it and is jumpers for it. Is that chip necessary for EBD I have read conflicting posts on RGP?

Finally the U9 socket has been replaced but no chip. Is U9 needed for EBD?

I’ll replace the caps since I have them but don’t have U15 or U17 to replace as suggested in the Bally Repair Procedure manual so will wait to see if I need EPROMs to get started

Thanks

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The LED will flash with a functioning U5 ROM - the U4 ROM is not necessary to see the first flash.
Regarding jumpers, they need to match the ROM type in use, the default in the manual might not be correct for your situation.

Yes, the AY-3-8912 is neccessary for Eight Ball Deluxe. Some sound effects are produced by it and it's also used for communications between the MPU board and the S&T board.

U9 is not needed - actually was never used in any production games that I'm aware.

Love hearing your memories from back in the day BigAl56
Good thing they didn't use the TMS6100 at U9. I've never seen them for sale.
Now if only we could convert the S&T ROMs to support the later (cheaper and readily available) TMS5220 which has a slightly different LPC coefficient table.

Hey there,

I have a massive ball hop problem on all of my three flippers.
For the bottom ones i ordered Cliffy return frames which should help, but what should i do for the upper flipper?
Sure I could bend/realign the guide, but that is always the last solution
Playfield is a CPR.

thanks

Thanks Quench your response was very helpful and motivated me to probe for the reason that LED was locked on. Turned out to be an address line was cut when a ROM socket was previously replaced. Now I have 6 flashes which seems too many but will wait for new EPROMs to sort that out.

I have a problem with my right drop targets. If they are down, the ball get stuck there.
The targets are even with the playfield, but the ball gets cought between them.
Any advice? Shaking works, but it has to be so strong that the machine tilts.

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Common problem with clear coated PF. You need to shim the drop targets up a little. I placed a .060 think strip of metal on the top of the lower part of the bank assembly. This will keep the drops up enough but not too high to block the deluxe targets.

Thanks!

Anyone know where you can get a replacement of the leaf switch under the star roll over? I think the original part number was ASW-A1-152 but can't find one in stock for the life of me. Assuming this can't be the only switch that will work here but hoping someone has ran into this and knows of a suitable replacement. Thanks!

If you can't find a replacement switch or want to move on to something more reliable and requiring "no" tuning at all, I highly recommend MRS (Magnetic Reed Switches) for rollovers. I have one in my EBD and three in my Meteor....they work so well.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mampm-creations-mrs-catalog/page/2#post-6979519

I'll send you a quick PM on this...

Rock on - thanks!