Welcome to the club! Indeed - you'll want to replace all of those IDC connectors with Molex or Molex compatible:

0.1" Connectors and Pins (for the "smaller" stakes, like the MPU and Light Boards)
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=68

0.156" Connectors and Pins (for the "bigger" stakes, like the SDB and Power related boards)
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=86

Thank you!!! I bought all of the .1" connectors and crimp tool for the MPU board thinking I was getting some of the larger ones! Good to know I didn't waste my money.

Do you guys typically replace ALL of them at once? I was thinking of just replacing the damaged ones and dealing with the others as they have issues.

Let me know if that is stupid LOL

Thanks again!

Elliott

Ya, two schools of thought there, and both are ok. For me, I like replacing them all at once, even the ones that aren't acting up. Eliminates frustration and extra triage work down the road if/when things start acting up (and they will on a 40 year old pin).

And since the pin is new to you, presumably with an unknown history, that's another one in the "replace them all now" category IMO.

Those are IDC connectors and they suck. You want molex plugs. Great plains electronics is a great resource for those. I think those particular ones are .156 pins so you should be able to get those from just about anywhere. I found it... frustrating to find the smaller .100 pins/plugs outside of GPE. I also found that the ratcheting crimper from PBL won't do .100 so I bought a second crimper in order to do those (I'd have never bought the ratcheting one if I had bought the one from GPE first). For reference, the plugs on the lamp board are .100 pins.

Before you go crazy make sure you have mastered crimping. I rather have a stable IDC connector than a poorly crimped Molex connector any day.

Isn't that lamp driver wire just connecting the board to the common lamp wire for ground, because on this game the lamp board is not connected to ground thru the mounting holes to the grounding plate in the back of the head? That's same way as I have my aux lamp board on my standard EBD, connected to the lamp string for a totally solid ground besides what it gets from the connector.
His lightbox DELUXE look like they are lighting, which run off the regular lamp board. Looks like all his lamps from the aux board are out (I can't see any working anyway) so perhaps the board is just not getting 5 volts or the board has some other overall issue that would apply to all the lamps being out.

No success

No success

Continuity is good

No success

Backbox features are working

Exactly. And some Gi too. See picture

How do I do that?

Thanks!

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Personally, I would do them all and be done with it, but as someone else said, make sure you know what you're doing first!

Just so you know, it took me roughly 8 hours to all of them on my restored game and that was with the harnesses on a workbench. I did the job over a couple days just to save from getting a sore back.

To check for 5v at the aux lamp driver: set meter to measure dc volts and place red lead on test point 1 (TP1 on board) and the black lead on TP2. Should have close to 5v DC.

The common lamp wire at the lamp sockets isn't ground, it's actually the +6.5VDC supply bus. frunch is making a valid point. Ground on the aux lamp driver board has been connected via that white wire to the 6.5V power for the lamps in the head.. Ouch.

I only read Numbers that Go between 1v and 0.17v. It’s always changing. Definately Not 6,5v

+1 here. I typically do it in 1 to 2 hour stretches over a few days. It does get monotonous, but it's also oddly relaxing once you get on a roll. I liken it to an electronic equivalent of my grandmother sitting in her rocking chair and knitting a sweater.

ej0hnson - FWIW - I practiced crimping about 20 to 30 pins of various sizes on scrap wire to get the hang of the procedure and using the tool before I tried it on an actual harness. By the time I finished doing the entire machine, I was a pro. From then on, it was no longer daunting. You may find this video useful to get you started on how to properly crimp pins on cable harnesses:

Thank you! I bought the crimper and will do some practice first! Not my first rodeo with wiring stuff as I have worked with automotive wiring harnesses in the past.

Thank you all for the help!

Sorry, you're right. I forgot I had an old Aux board in mine before where I'd run an extra ground wire into the head, but I later replaced the aux board with an Altek board where I have TP3 going to the lamp string, I got my wires crossed, as it were.
Looking at his pic again, while it looks like it is connected to the board's ground, it's just going thru a hole there so it's possible it's not. But sure looks like it is, ground trace is under the hole.
But if ground on his aux board is connected to the lamp string power, how's come he doesn't have even more problems than this? How come his backbox controlled lights look okay? Maybe the board isn't actually grounded at the connector in the first place because the pins are in fact shot?

Easiest EBD improvement in history - yank the second 'Game Over' lamp. With Bally's translucent ink and the 'game over' shoved all the way to the left in the light shield, it actually looks 'correct' this way. You'll save a penny's worth of electricity in a year, too. No no, please, no applause.

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Can I test or try something to help you find a solution? The guy a bought the game said everything was working A1. Maybe I connected something wrong? It’s my first Bally so Maybe I did something wrong...
Thanks again!527E27F2-AA21-4EDD-855B-B091DBBB6DC5 (resized).jpeg527E27F2-AA21-4EDD-855B-B091DBBB6DC5 (resized).jpeg

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Well, it's obvious that the Aux Lamp driver board is not functioning.

It may be because the board itself is bad, or the wiring TO the board is bad.

The back of that board has been hacked up to put resistor packs on it (probably to reduce flickering of the LED bulbs).
Additionally, the connector on the right side (the white one) has been replaced with a molex connector.

These modifications are not uncommon (and are not "bad" if done correctly), but they could have been done poorly or incorrectly.

You could replace the Aux Driver board, but if the problem is in the wiring (which is not unlikely) then that won't help.

Thanks
I already ordered a new Aux lamp driver cause they’re not that expensive and the old one was...tired.
I’ll let you know.
Thanks for your time!

Well whadda ya know, that extra wire *wasn't* going to the ground trace! I think the guy who added the resistor packs routed the wire thru that ground trace hole just to trick our asses. Or maybe just mine.

Other than that the grounding *looks* okay anyway in the pics, all the ground pins are there, solder side of them looks good, and he put on that new connector.

I swap my old Aux lamp board for a new one without success. Not sure on what to do next. I’ll try to find someone to look at it.

I'd get a closer look at the J1 connector and verify all the wires are in the correct slots. I also noticed something that appears a bit off, might want to get a closer look at the wiring here in particular... Is that exposed wiring?
618715992.png

Perhaps they had to add length to some of the wiring or splice 2 wires to one for some of the slots on the female connector. Make sure that wiring is all insulated in any case, perhaps there's some clear insulation around the splices (or whatever that may be). Maybe it's just the angle of the photo or something, but it seems like that might be a potential source of trouble.

I was hoping the new board would fix the problem too

Everything Looks good

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Is there a +5vdc test point and ground test point on the aux lamp driver? If so, set your meter to check dc volts and put the red lead on the +5, black lead on ground.

Otherwise, try red lead on J1 pin 1, black lead on J1 pin 15 (you should be able to sneak the leads into the back side of the connector for this test).

Looks like some spliced wiring with clear vinyl tubing, instead of traditional heat shrink. Just me, but I would properly re-splice those wires and use heat shrink.

You said that the lamps were working when you tested the game before sale?

The seller told me it was working great. The price was good so I bought it without playing it.

When I test black lead on backbox ground and red lead on TP2 (gnd) of board, continuity is Perfect.

When I test Black lead on TP2 (gnd) of board and red lead on TP1 (+5v) of board I get almost nothing (0,05v)

Im so confused

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So you’re not getting 5 volts. Just started following this. Do all the test points on your power rectifier board test good with the correct voltages still? If so you have a break in a wire someplace that supplies your power. Find that and you’re likely back in business.

So that was your first mistake Just me, but first thing to do is move this ground braid attached to the board down to the ground braid in the backbox.
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EDIT : I guess I was a little slow on my response and is seems that you've spotted it already.

So I checked continuity between the AUX LAMP board (BLK/GRN wire 5v) at J1 to the SOLENOID DRIVER board J3 pin 16.
All good. No broken wire.

I measured TP1 and TP5 test point on the SOLENOID DRIVER board with the ground point. No success. 0V
I never found in the manual what they should measure anyway but 0 is never good

The back of the board seems good. No cold solder or cracks.

How the LAMP BOARD can work and Not a brand new AUX LAMP board?

Thanks for your patience

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You're measuring with the multi-meter set to DC voltage right? because if TP5 and TP1 on the solenoid driver board had zero volts, the game would not start up (no power to the MPU board).

I think you might be looking in the wrong place. I would focus my search on the rectifier board in the bottom of the cabinet. You could have a bad solder joint or connection down there causing this issue. You’re missing power sources from that board.

I doubt that's really true. The machine boots and plays, it's just the Aux lamp driver that is not working, correct?

If the rectifier board was faulty, there would be a lot of other stuff not working too.

Multiple power taps and returns come off that board. I’m beginning to think one of the 5 volt pins has a bad solder joint.

Yeah game boots and plays, there's *gotta* be 5v on solenoid TP1, right? And he gets continuity from the aux board 5v test point all the way to the correct solenoid board 5v pin but still doesn't measure 5v at the aux test point there either. What the heck?

On which test point should I read 5v?
1-5-6 or 7?

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On the solenoid driver board, from the schematics...

TP1 = +5V DC +- .025V DC
TP2 = +190V DC +- 5V DC
TP3 = not specified (but appears to be +5V DC)
TP4 = +230V +- 27V
TP5 = 11.9V DC
TP6 = not specified
TP7 = not specified

On the power driver board (in the bottom of the machine), from the schematics...

TP1 = 6.5v DC
TP2 = +230v DC
TP3 = 11.9v DC
TP4 = 6.5v DC
TP5 = +43v DC

I pulled my playfield to work on pops again (ugh, the bane of my existence) and I have a few new issues as well as a few nagging ones:

1) I replaced the rollover switch because it was HAMMERED and tried to gap it super close. Maybe I just didn't get it close enough but it still seems to miss fast shots as much as it did before. I reused the diode but I do have the proper XO-261 diodes to swap in...can these wear out (but still 'work') or is it that they either work or they don't?

2) The 10K bonus light on the left isn't lighting. According to the schematics this is A9J2-7..I think? The 20K saucer light is staying on and is dimly lit. I'm not sure if something happened between the lamp socket and the metal edge of the drop bank but while researching I did notice they were touching. A9J2-8 in the schematic, right? Sorry for the profoundly stupid question.. but are these on the Aux lamp board? I thought both were working prior to the new Altek (main--I didn't replace the aux, at least yet) lamp board (and the 10k working before I pulled the playfield last) but tbh I can't remember at this point.

3) I'm having some issues with skirts of pops occasionally getting jammed on the spoon depending on where I press on the skirt. I had replaced the switch stack (and spoon), skirts, etc for hardtop #1 but I reused them all for hardtop #2. I can't really figure out why I'm sometimes getting this even though the skirt looks perfectly centered. I think two are resolved...ish... with just one to go. Not sure if I tweaked the spoons, or the skirts, or...something... Maybe I should have replaced them again when I did HT#2?

4) I replaced all four sling switches but used the wrong diodes (N1004 instead of XO-261). I don't have them gapped particularly close but sometimes they'll machine gun a bit. Is this because of the incorrect diode? I guess I just need to swap them and see where I'm at, I guess I'm just curious of the technical reason this would be problematic.

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<<I replaced the rollover switch because it was HAMMERED and tried to gap it super close. Maybe I just didn't get it close enough but it still seems to miss fast shots as much as it did before>>

Do you have the capacitor installed on that switch, should have one.

<<2) The 10K bonus light on the left isn't lighting. The 20K saucer light is staying on and is dimly lit. >>

Yeah those are on the aux lamp board.

<<3) I'm having some issues with skirts of pops occasionally getting jammed on the spoon depending on where I press on the skirt.>>

You mean the skirt stem? Try tweaking the position of the switch stack some more after loosening its screws, it might appear centered but could be putting pressure on one side or the other at rest and isn't actually centered.

<<4) I replaced all four sling switches but used the wrong diodes (N1004 instead of XO-261). I don't have them gapped particularly close but sometimes they'll machine gun a bit. Is this because of the incorrect diode? >>

Make sure the short blade that puts pressure on the back switch blade is adjusted correctly and touching the switch blade. You don't want the back switch blade vibrating/flopping around after a sling hit. Switch could just need a bit more gap, or might try moving down a notch on the size on the rubber rings on the slings.

Crap. Nope, I don't know that it's ever had one. Do you by chance know the part number for the cap it needs? I can scour this thread if not, I'm sure it's mentioned 96 million times.

Think I'll just order the aux board..screw it. Might as well at this point.

I'll continue messing around with the pops. I *think* I got two of them to where I'm happy, but it's certainly possible those aren't great still either. I couldn't mess with it too much (at 3AM) without fear of waking everybody up. Should have a chance to test more this morning, and hopefully I can make some slight adjustments to the last one without pulling the entire playfield again.

I'll verify on the slings. I thought I had that all adjusted properly, but...certainly possible I don't. I'll go ahead and swap the diodes too, since I know now that's not the correct one for EBD.

//Edit

Found it! But where does one buy such a thing? I don't see any at Marco *or* PBL, unless I'm just blind..? -- or will these work? https://www.pinballlife.com/ceramic-capacitor-05-mfd-25-volt.html

I got mine from Great Plains Electronics - 10 cents each. Bought a few hundred to have on hand:

GP Part #: CCD-0.047uF-100V
Description: Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, 0.047uF, 100V

They're used everywhere.....

Welp, time to order more from GPE it would appear. Any other weird crap I probably haven't thought to order at any point in time that would be best suited for a place like GPE?!

//Edit 10k light works sometimes.. Sometimes not... No idea. 20k is still stuck on / dimly lit. I'm guessing some damage was done to the aux board.

Got my pops to mooooostly work (the bottom one is really a chore because one of the screws simply won't tighten for some reason.. So I gapped it hella tight) for now. Leaving it be and buttoning things up until I have a cap for the rollover.

So, it's technically functional, but not great. Going to play it a bit and see what other necessary adjustments I find.

For what it’s worth, I just replaced all 4 of my sling shot switches with brand new ones because they were worn out and missing a lot of scoring. With the brand new switches I got a lot of double firing and some machine gunning. It was not doing that with the old style switches. It seems the old style with the angled blade stiffener works much better than the new style flat blade stiffener. I modified the new switches by taking it apart and using the old style bent stiffener. It made a huge difference and it stopped the machine gunning completely. Thanks to Lovef2k for recommending this.

Yup, mine were GROSS so I replaced them with nice new, shiny ones..but the lead blade does not bend around the rubber and I think that's the key here. My friend Bill suggested bending them into the rubber however I can and said that should alleviate that issue as well. Great minds think alike (Bill and F2k). I'll play around with mine as I get time; I'm sure I can fix some of the responsiveness while handling the machine gunning. I still need to replace the two switches in the chase up top; those are equally disgusting. But they're functioning for now and that's good enough.

My real frustration for now is that bottom pop (and the star rollover of course, but I think we're pretty sure the source of my issue is the missing cap so no use whining about that until I have the cap installed). I'm just not sure how to get around not being able to fully torque one of the screws on the stack. I think it's the screw I replaced, but I bought a 5-40 which I'm pretty sure is right... I screwed it all the way down outside of the pop body and it seemed to tighten fine. But in the body, through the stack, it just won't. And I think that's why that bottom pop just can't dial in quite right. I don't know if I need a new retaining bar, threadlock, new screws, all of the above?, something else entirely? But that bottom pop is VERY hit or miss and that's driving me bonkers.

Maybe the threads on the bracket are stripped. If there’s room maybe you can try a slightly longer screw and a nylon lock nut. I’m pretty sure Marco carries those smaller sizes. If not try Bolt Depot. They have pretty much any size you can think of.

Only issue I see with the nylon lock nut is that you can't adjust it from the top with it installed. Not that it's the end of the world or anything (and if it fixes my problem, it's probably a good enough solution) but it would require dropping the coil/bracket, unscrewing the base, and separating my body from the base so I can kind of/sort of access the bracket inside that recessed area. So long as I get it right and don't end up having to take it apart 37 times in the process, that'd be okay..lol.

I think you guys who stuck with the Bally pop config can drop the entire assembly (minus the cap maybe?), body intact, by just removing the screws that secure the base to the playfield, right? That's one of the few 'bad' things about switching to these neato white copycat designs I had made..I can't drop the body through--at all--that because the body is too wide.

so my project EBD hard topper is almost complete . I got it back together boots up looks great . first thing im stumped on is the controlled lighting is not working at all ? Then the coil in ball trough does not kick ball hard enough to get in shooter lane ? any Ideas on what might cause this ?
Thanks in advance

I did put new MPU and driver boards in
I checked TP on lamp driver board had 5 volts not sure if this is correct .

It sounds like a power issue. Start at the rectifier board. Make sure the plug connectors are fully seated. Check fuses by pulling each one and test w ohm meter. If all good, go to test points. All values are listed on pinwiki or in this thread.

No switched lamps can be a bad bridge rectifier on power board. Or a connection issue. Retrace any work prior to hardtop.

In attract more check voltage from ground to switched lamp bus wire under pf, greenish blue wire soldered to specific lamp bases. Should be 6 to 7 volts.

Out hole coil is controlled by Seb. Check connector J1 and the header pins for cold solder joints. Do all other coils fire correctly?

Typo more should be mode