It's a beast! I think I may have room to store it behind Tron and Metallica, although I may have to move some things around. That might be a perfect storage place so I don't have to even try breaking anything down (may not be entirely possible; I think my dad both screwed AND glued large sections of this together, although I know the top rotisserie part does at least pull loose with a couple of bolts taken out). TBH I don't plan on really needing it much in the immediate term, as soon as I'm done with these bugs on EBD. But this gives me the option of pulling playfields to do any real work, rather than propping up and working in place. Mainly I'm talking about soldering work, because I'm absolutely horrible soldering with a playfield propped up and I drip solder everywhere in the cab..which ain't great.

I'm still looking at a few more mods as well: storage/holders on the end for things like screwdrivers and hand tools, a 'box' on one end to encapsulate the wiring loom (and anything misc that I need to store but want close to the playfield for some reason). But both of those I'm not planning on doing anytime soon since as mentioned I feel like I'm reaching the tail-end of my use for this rotisserie for the time being.

Damn. Mine won't reach like yours will. So, no debugging with the game plugged in. Tried both the left and right side and the connection to the power board inside the cab was just a hair too short with the optimal tilt on the rotisserie (let alone with the playfield facing up). There might be some way to modify it, or the way I'm trying to do this, in order for that to work..but off-hand it doesn't appear to be doable.

Oh well, time to research lights that are out / stuck on and to try and fix these damn pops I guess.

And then to order a new set of apron cards, because I'm an idiot and one of my clamps slipped (the whole damn playfield nearly fell off!) and punched a hole through it.

For the last few months, I've been thinking about building a "cable harness extension kit" that basically extends the playfield harness some number of feet, long enough to have the playfield out of the cabinet and be able to freely rotate 360 degrees on the rotisserie up to a few feet away. One of these weekends I should build a prototype and see how (if) it works.

I should do the same..but I hate crimping molex, so...

Count me down for one if you end up doing it with any amount of success and are willing to do another for a price

Okay, so a bit more dialing in / testing / messing around...

My D lane is causing the game to glitch and/or completely reset, but seemingly only if the 7 ball target is dropped. I have no idea what could possibly cause this and I'm pretty sure it never happened before. Any ideas?

I got two of my lights fixed (B lane and 9ball in the rack) but two flat out won't work (11ball target never lights and 7 ball in the rack never lights -- it was stuck on, but dim, previously. I soldered in a new socket). I verified continuity on the two (both with grounds as well as with positive lead from socket to plug) that won't work and the voltage looks good at the socket so I'm really at a loss on what could be wrong or where to check next.

Looks like they're tied together in the switch matrix so I guess it makes sense.. bad diode?

PXL_20210414_231624506.MP (resized).jpg

Naturally I forgot to dial in the pops while I had this thing out of the cabinet.

Welp, the diode on the D switch seemed bad (installed in the game, no continuity) so I replaced it with a new one. Issue persists and the diode I removed tests fine outside the game. Wtf?

I don't know if this is a wild goose chase here, but the "reset" you're getting sounds like the Slam Switch engaging. If you look at the switch matrix for the "D" Rollover Lane, it's tied to ST1. If you look at the Slam Switch on the Cabinet Wiring Diagram, it's also tied to ST1.

There are two Slam Switches - one on the coin door and one on the tilt panel.

Could be something with that, but I'm not sure.

I tested the diode I removed from D with it out of the game and it tested fine, then I realized I should actually expect a diode in the game to NOT buzz (all the other switch diodes didn't buzz when I tested them) so I took the diode I pulled from D, swapped it on to ball 7, and now I have new behavior..seemingly tied to the drops all being down and the game trying to drop one with corresponding lanes all hit. So maybe something in THAT matrix too?

Although, I retested the diode on 7 now and it's buzzing..again...

Just how bent should these bend bars be? I fiddled with a few of them and got it to score 3000 correctly, even though the audio glitch kept happening. It was scoring 12000-15000 when I tested prior.

I checked continuity on common across those switches and all was good. The 7 diode is buzzing again (with it soldered in) but none of the other switch diodes buzz. The behavior I'm getting now (not being tied directly to the 7 ball itself but still going nuts with all targets down) is different than before I swapped the diode, even though it's still buzzing.

If the bend bars are...wrong.. I'm confused why it causes problems only when targets are dropped. Isn't it completely possible, even...guaranteed.. That the bend bars and both contacts would be touching when targets drop?

PXL_20210415_025705267 (resized).jpg

Have you played around with the switch test in the diagnostics? May help narrow down where the problem is with your switch matrix, you can close one or more switches and it should display whatever is the lowest numbered switch that is closed, including the slam switch. And you can clip or manually hold switches closed including the drop switches during the test if you need to.

Awesome mate. You’ve finally had a win. I think all your issues have definitely put me OFF hardtops. My mate here bought a fully restored EK with hardtop (he’s a newbie and didn’t know and I didn’t have the heart to tell him....until it started bubbling) he’s had it replaced by the seller but Im not convinced. And then he tells me he’s just bought Xenon with yep a hard top. Fingers crossed for him!

I don't have any stuck switches and nothing seems out of sorts when I run switch test, or at least I didn't catch anything while I was messing around. I'm assuming this has something to do with all those switches on the 7-bank but I'm just not sure what I messed up.

The rotisserie is definitely cool and I'm glad my dad was able to build that for me. It's helpful in diagnosing some of this stuff.

My current woes really don't have anything to do with the hardtop. I pulled a lot of stuff off my machine to molex and introduced a lot of potential problems. Clearly I introduced some erratic behavior with the way I had things pulled tight under the playfield and whatnot. Again, these are my own fault and not the fault of the hardtop. All in all I love the product (my high speed plays as well as ANY other high speed I've ever laid hands on) and once I figure out what exactly I messed up I'm confident I'll be thrilled with the outcome of this hardtop. It's just frustrating in the meantime but again... Not the fault of the hardtop when I'm the one who messed things up.

There were definitely a small sampling of affected hardtops that were defective and I really hope you're friend didn't stumble his way into multiples. Both the space shuttle and high speed hardtops of mine have had great adhesion since day one, and this replacement EBD appears to be the same (the first EBD I had installed started separating EVERYWHERE on the very first play). I'm confident that whatever issue plagued the defective one.. Is not present in this replacement one, as just outside edge said it would not.

Can you tell which one it is trying to drop? Or reset them manually before you complete the ABCD lanes that last time... then complete them and see if/which one drops? Does the auto dropping work on all of them okay in solenoid test? But if they all seem to work, I'm guessing it isn't really trying to drop one after they are all down since once they are all down, if you complete ABCD again it shouldn't activate any of the auto drop coils.

I'm not sure exactly what it's trying to drop after all the targets are down (after I let B drop the 7 target at 1:54). It's like something isn't communicating back with the game that all the targets have been dropped. I can't remember what the lane bonus is supposed to shift to once you've dropped all the targets..but it sure ain't supposed to keep trying to drop them! O_O And it should *never* try dropping one without all other ABCD lanes knocked down. Seems once all 7 balls are dropped it doesn't care if ABC are registered, once D is hit it does this regardless. I'm pretty sure I hear it trying to drop a target when it does this, but I'll retest and verify today.

Solenoid test works fine as far as I can tell. Nothing really seems out of sorts..until I drop all the targets and hit the D lane. I don't get it...

In the picture of the drop target assembly you posted above, the left-most target switch (it appears to be the 6-ball), is strangely bent and appears to be making contact when it shouldn't be. You should probably double-check that one.

Yeah, I'm not overly thrilled with how any of those bend bars look to be entirely honest. But I guess I'm still confused -- if the targets are all dropped, would it really matter if the bend bar touched one or both leafs? If they're contacting each other already (IE target dropped), wouldn't that bend bar also be looped in with that even if it were 'correct' and only touching one of the leafs?

In your picture, the target is not dropped, but the switch appears to still be closed. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo that is deceiving, but it looks wrong to me.

Bad angle. They're all open with targets up. Although I'm pretty sure a few are now not registering when dropped because I screwed with them.

Did you add a wiring harness to the 7-drop bank? If so, you may want to double check your connections there. Make absolutely certain that all diodes are oriented correctly on each switch and that none of the switches solder lugs are touching anything adjacent. I watched the video, and it looks like a switch matrix issue, as others have been pointing toward.

Have you tested the D-lane switch with each target individually dropped? By that i mean, drop ball 1 and try D switch. Then reset 1 ball, and drop 2 ball and try D switch. Reset 2, drop 3 and try D lane etc. Make sure it's definitely not tied to one specific drop target switch being activated leading to the crazy behavior when you push the D switch. You want to see if you can narrow it down to a particular switch (or set of switches) that cause the issue. You're getting there, hopefully you'll get to the bottom of it soon.

I added molex for all the switches AND the coils. Couldn't fully remove the assembly otherwise.

I should be able to just verify continuity from both sides of the molex connectors and wires in the connectors to make sure nothing got reversed....right? I didn't change any diodes except for the one that I thought was bad on 7 (and I get different behavior now after doing that..so I guess it was bad?) Is there a possibility of something in the chain 'killing' diodes? I haven't desoldered one of the legs to the diode I replaced to see if it tests good or not. It buzzes as it sits and that's what prompted me to change the last one.

Just finished rebuilding a rectifier board for my EBD project and looking at the manual the part numbers for the 3/4, 4, 5 and 20 amp fuses all come back as fast blow fuses.

Just wanted to confirm that this was correct before going out and buying some as I only have slow blow on hand. Can anyone confirm for me that this is accurate? Thank you!

Could you post a couple pics of the switch for drop target 7? Try to get some good pics of the wiring to it and a side view of the switch so we can see the switch leaves clearly. You shouldn't be getting continuity across the diode. Makes me think you may have a tensioner leaf on the switch that might be shorting the switch closed...hard to say though.

Here's what I use in my EBD....

EBD Fuses (resized).jpg

Yep, lemme go take some. While I had the playfield out again and on the rotisserie, I bent several diodes, resistors, etc on that 7 bank that I felt may be touching metal or doing something weird. Now, if something messed up the diode I put on that 7 switch, I probably need to replace it again now that I've bent all of those away. I verified continuity and double checked leafs for closure when dropped and open when up. All looks good there. All wires in the molex plugs are correct.

Played a test game to test my pops and noticed that given a particular scenario (seems related to the ball targets, and maybe that 7 in particular or with all 7 being down, similar to D) the left pop will fire the pop solenoid, register the star rollover, and trigger the saucer. It's a bit difficult to catch up with all the scores that happen when it does this but I hear all the different audio clips. When I was doing switch test I noticed that the bank shot occasionally (but not always) fires the left sling. I have them gapped fairly loosely, so they're not aggressively tight or anything.

I'm convinced that something is/was grounding out but I'm not sure if there's been long term damage or now I just need to replace some components here and there or... I don't know. This thing is completely bonkers.

Beautiful, thank you!

Stripped this switch down as far as I could in order to eliminate variables. Desoldered one leg and it checked out. Soldered it back and it buzzed. I just really don't get it.

PXL_20210415_190833798 (resized).jpg

PXL_20210415_190849898 (resized).jpg

PXL_20210415_190856999 (resized).jpg

While I'm here bugging people...any EBD LE owners have a good LED bulb recommendation for the backbox? Having trouble finding the right bulb at Lowes, etc. I prefer a brighter cool white if possible.

Do you mean a florescent bulb, or an actual LED that will fit where the florescent bulb goes?

FFS. I rebuilt the switch entirely and I noticed..there was NOT a separator between the two metal tabs that the diode spans. Added one in on the rebuild, set the switch gap, and things seem much happier now. *facepalm* I don't remember having rebuilt that switch stack (and losing the separator in the process) but I must have, because I certainly wasn't getting this kind of behavior when I got it back from HT#1.

I did get a random tilt which was weird, as I don't even have a plumb bob in my game...but I'm willing to chalk that one up to random weirdness for now.

Pops are better but still not perfect. I think I'll wait until my PBL order gets here and then use the switch tool to make the gap even a bit closer. I think the spoons are lined up okay, but the contacts may be slightly crooked since I used needle nose pliers (I know, I know..forgive me!) to set the gap as I was adjusting the pops. The star rollover is still.....Frustrating. I thought I had that one dialed in but I hit the shot 4 times in a row and none of them registered.

So.. Weird behavior fixed (at least for now?) and now I'm back to just dialing in. Sheesh.

I'd like to replace the (dead) florescent one that came in my game with an LED bulb. I was looking for the same bulb number in an LED version and wasn't having much luck at the box box places.

Besides the plumb bob, there's also a tilt switch on the underside of the playfield. Mine's an '84, but I'm guessing the location should be the same on your '81.

Tilt Switch (resized).jpg

Seems like this would work...unfortunately they seem to only come in a four pack.

https://www.amazon.com/F8T5DL-Replacement-Lumens-Daylight-Bulbs/dp/B08P3XP297/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

I may order a set of these myself.

Yeah that's definitely open like that but idk. I'll play it some more and see what happens. I felt like my pops were working pretty well but the last game was rather meh..so I now want to pull out my hair again, but for different reasons. I don't think there's much I can really do until I have proper leaf adjustment tools. I THINK the skirt is centered properly on all three pops.

Does such a beast exist? I haven’t seen one in that form factor. It is odd that the starter and ballast are located in the cabinet. Those are just as likely to fail as the bulb.

That fuse kit has the wrong speed types for the high voltage circuit. Both the 3/4A and 3/16A fuses should be fast blow, not slow blow fuses.

Thanks, I had a buddy check his and they are all indeed fast in the rectifier.

If these are 12", that seems like they would be too long, no?

I believe this is the correct size - F8T5.

The original florescent tube is available here :

http://actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=FLUOR_12

And this would seem to be a direct replacement in LED form :

https://www.amazon.com/F8T5DL-Replacement-Lumens-Daylight-Bulbs/dp/B08P3XP297/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

I gave up trying to figure out how to fit a standard LED bulb into this space ended up daisy chaining a few led strips - and it came out incredible.

20201106_192733 (resized).jpg

20201106_192808 (resized).jpg

While I'm blowing this thread up today, anyone have any experience with this repro squak and talk board?

https://mypinballs.com/electronics/store.jsp

Normally I don't like led strips where much more randomly placed 44s used to be but on this version of EBD with only one flourescent, those strips do look great and WAY better than original.

I bought 2 but haven't installed them yet. The speech chip is the same as original and are getting scarce. What I like are the dip switches that make it easy to run the board in any game. Just swap sound roms.

Where did you end up getting your power for the LED strips? This looks like a great solution. I've still got the old black GE ballast (not the silver Schumaker one specified in the service bulletin) so fluro tubes keep blowing, and I'm having trouble finding a ballast.

I tapped into the 120v in the lower cabinet where the ballast was with a 12v power supply and put a small fuse in line, I think around 2A, and put a quick connect plug up top in case you want to remove the head.

Hi guys
New member here in the club but needing a clue on what to do with my game problems: half the GI and inserts are not working. Everything seems fine. All fuses and connectors have been double checked.

What should I do next?
Thsnks for your Time
PS: are they all come with cigarettes flavour?

2D3F7E95-47B5-4A64-8528-32AC7956F4E9 (resized).jpeg

66F25793-0DCF-4B5E-A3CB-9658B2BE6564 (resized).jpeg

719FCA05-E8AD-40EC-8AD5-DC74D9C49DFE (resized).jpeg

B185C57D-0C68-4C90-8616-E436C5D1D73E (resized).jpeg

B834C425-A9B1-4DD2-8631-B5D0310A545A (resized).jpeg

Looks like the lights that are out are mostly controlled by the auxiliary lamp driver. I would reseat the connectors to the auxiliary lamp driver board and see if that improves anything. I had to replace connector J1 on mine due to bad ground pins. Looks like the female side of J1 has been replaced, but have the male headers for J1 also been replaced? You can even try wiggling or flexing J1 with the game on to see if that gets the lamps to come to life. Here's the board I'm talking about, J1 is the bottom-right connector:

1451693945.png

Strange though since he has an extra ground wire added that's tied right to the aux lamp board, if that is solid then it doesn't seem to be just cooked ground pins on the connector like it usually is on that board.

That's a good point. I've never seen that style ground mod on a Bally game, only on Gottlieb's. I'd certainly verify that the ground pins at J1 have continuity to the ground connection(s) in the backbox--you can check between J1 pin 15 of the aux lamp driver and the ground strap in the backbox for continuity (and verify the ground strap is screwed down in the backbox).

Come to think of it: what exactly is going on here? I presumed this was a ground connection but it seems to be tapping into the +DC voltage for the "DELUXE" lights on the backbox That's definitely not factory, at very least. Not sure if that would be the cause of the problem, and I'm not sure what that small connector at the bottom of the non-aux lamp driver board is either:
Screenshot_20210420_070901_org.mozilla.fennec_fdroid(1).jpg

It looks like J1 must have had a problem at some point, at least. Still worth a look, but the problem could certainly be somewhere else...(possibly something to do with those wiring hacks around the lamp driver boards)

This game has a lot of hacks.
I will try your suggestions asap.
Thanks a lot!

Ahh, ok so i see what the connections are for now. J5 on the weebly.nvram.com lamp driver board has a pin to feed power to the backbox lamps.
Screenshot_20210420_091355_org.mozilla.fennec_fdroid(1).jpg
So that's ok, but i don't think you should have the wire from the aux board tied into it. If anything, try disconnecting the wire from the aux lamp driver board to that junction someone added below the lamp boards. I don't think that should be tied in there. (I could be wrong, but it's what I'd try next)

Did you notice if any of the backbox feature lamps work?

New owner here! What do I replace these god-forsaken connectors with? They are falling apart all over the game. Won't boot anymore.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

ebdprobs (resized).jpg