(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well

By Hellfire

10 years ago


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#3601 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

You wouldn't have to license the white caps though. Only the artwork is copyrighted. You can mold the plastic out of any color you want.
One of the reason they don't do the white is the demand is low. More people prefer the amber. When I run my injection-molded parts I make thousands not one or two.
It's just like when guys ask me if I can make my plastic backglass edge trim white like early Stern machines used instead of the more-common black like Bally used. The answer is "sure I can" but I have to make a minimum amount to make it economically feasible. The minimum amount exceeds any possible amount I could ever hope to sell so I won't be doing it anytime soon. But if you were to commit to a pallet of them I would probably do it.

That's a fair point, but I don't personally feel demand is that low. Maybe I'm wrong. I bet a lot of people don't even know they exist(ed). I didn't know these existed until I had already owned my machine for several months. At that point I knew I needed something that looked like those when I had my game rebuilt, so I had copycats made. They aren't the legitimate ones (I don't think I could put those in a machine considering how rare they are) but they look really, really good, IMO. The amber isn't horrible, I just don't think it looks particularly great. You know what they say about opinions.

#3602 3 years ago

These are the parts I sell to the public.

All fit EBD except the 3/16" backglass trim.

Pinball Parts Flyer (resized).jpgPinball Parts Flyer (resized).jpg
#3603 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

These are the parts I sell to the public.
All fit EBD except the 3/16" backglass trim.
[quoted image]

Wish I had known when I ordered the lift channel. Looks like nice stuff! Glad to see people picking up and supporting these machines into 2020.

#3604 3 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

These are the parts I sell to the public.
All fit EBD except the 3/16" backglass trim.
[quoted image]

Thanks for posting this stuff! Let me dive into my EBDLE project and see what’s missing/damaged.

#3605 3 years ago

My flippers keep dying on me mid game. Power cycle brings them back to working. I keep hearing the coin door coil clicking at random times.

What the heck?

#3606 3 years ago

FYI, the original white caps are a different design than the amber. The white caps don't have the vertical lines in the cap like the amber.

#3607 3 years ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

My flippers keep dying on me mid game. Power cycle brings them back to working. I keep hearing the coin door coil clicking at random times.
What the heck?

Try reseating connectors to mother board and the input to momentary solenoids.

#3608 3 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

FYI, the original white caps are a different design than the amber. The white caps don't have the vertical lines in the cap like the amber.

OEM EBD cap has a frosted type fx inside the top cap...
an acid is applied to the metal mold to create the fx.
Centaur introduced the starburst style design.
IMG_0006[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0006[1] (resized).JPG
1)OEM EBD production cap.
2) EBD later production.
3) Fireball OEM.
4) general cap replacement for NLA cap.
5) OEM Centaur cap. design change.
6) Final design change to cap.

#3609 3 years ago

Here is a pix of the inside of a Bally revision Thumper bumper body.
IMG_0008[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0008[1] (resized).JPG
Note the two holes added to the inside; to take the cap screws.

#3610 3 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

OEM EBD cap has a frosted type fx inside the top cap...
an acid is applied to the metal mold to create the fx.
Centaur introduced the starburst style design.
[quoted image]
1)OEM EBD production cap.
2) EBD later production.
3) Fireball OEM.
4) general cap replacement for NLA cap.
5) OEM Centaur cap. design change.
6) Final design change to cap.

I was referring to the white caps that came with early production games, which also had red posts instead of blue.

edb cap (resized).jpgedb cap (resized).jpg
#3611 3 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

I was referring to the white caps that came with early production games, which also had red posts instead of blue.
[quoted image]

Yes.
The cap should be frosted and not starburst.

#3612 3 years ago
ebdcaps (resized).pngebdcaps (resized).pngedbd (resized).pngedbd (resized).pngpasted_imageebd (resized).pngpasted_imageebd (resized).png
#3613 3 years ago

The first 100-150 games came like this. Exactly like the Bally game flyer.

#3614 3 years ago

Guh, I love the white caps. I still don't know why they went away from those.

#3615 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Guh, I love the white caps. I still don't know why they went away from those.

me too!

#3616 3 years ago

They look like ufos all lit up. I. Freaking. Love. Them.

received_696103184424778 (resized).jpegreceived_696103184424778 (resized).jpeg
#3617 3 years ago

I do like the white caps, but I can't say that I like the purple posts...

The red posts look good, especially with the white caps. But I think that if you have the orange caps, the blue posts look better.

Just my opinion.

#3618 3 years ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I do like the white caps, but I can't say that I like the purple posts...
The red posts look good, especially with the white caps. But I think that if you have the orange caps, the blue posts look better.
Just my opinion.

They're blue posts, I think it's just a camera trick making them look purple. That or the domeless warm white bulbs I had to buy are doing it.

I have to tear everything down again anyway (defective hardtop imploded on the first game played, so THAT sucks) so if they look purple in person I'll probably change them. They were all new ones, not reused. Colors could be different.

#3619 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I have to tear everything down again anyway (defective hardtop imploded on the first game played, so THAT sucks)

What ?? Explain.

#3620 3 years ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

What ?? Explain.

Defective, art separated from the PETG. It happened back in November with the rollover when it was being dremeled away and determined to be defective at that time. My hope was that it wouldn't get worse. On the first post-assembly play it separated in a BUNCH of spots. Sigh.

My space shuttle and high speed hardtops are both perfect, fwiw.

#3621 3 years ago

In case anyone missed it, I also had an EBD hardtop failure. A few, actually.

First one required total removal (what a pain!) and installation of a second one: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hardtop-install-and-restoration-for-eight-ball-deluxe/page/3#post-5861443

Several weeks after replacing it, I had another issue that I addressed myself without removal of hardtop: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hardtop-install-and-restoration-for-eight-ball-deluxe/page/3#post-5861469

Now, several weeks after that, I have a new, smaller bubble coming up in the right in-line. Playfield is out and in my rotisserie....will be attempting repair over the next week or so and will post progress/methods in the above thread soon.

#3622 3 years ago

What's my best course of action on my old glass at this point? Superglue the loose parts and turn it into a framed picture? Something else? It's a shame, it really doesn't look that bad in a game but that delamination sucks.

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#3623 3 years ago

Does anyone sell linear flipper crank replacement buttons?

#3624 3 years ago
Quoted from onemoresean:

Does anyone sell linear flipper crank replacement buttons?

Not any more, that I am aware of. I bought a package of Gottlieb round buttons
that do kind of the same thing...sometimes they break though.

#3625 3 years ago

Has anyone ever gotten Delrin round stock and just made one? Seems like that would wear the longest? I dumped linears years ago when the quality of the button went way down, flat spots were appearing after <1000 plays.

#3626 3 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

This game looks best with RED starposts. Thanks for posting these.-

#3627 3 years ago

I do like the red posts. I'll probably just buy those when I tear this damn thing back down. Does anyone have a count on how many tall vs. how many short? The short are ONLY in the inner chase...right?

#3628 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I do like the red posts. I'll probably just buy those when I tear this damn thing back down. Does anyone have a count on how many tall vs. how many short? The short are ONLY in the inner chase...right?

This comes up all the time in this thread.
Here is a post from 4 years ago.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/eight-ball-deluxe-owner-club-guests-welcome-as-well/page/15#post-3239695
Basically I'd say go 22 and 10 and you should be ok.

#3629 3 years ago
Quoted from fnosm:

This comes up all the time in this thread.
Here is a post from 4 years ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/eight-ball-deluxe-owner-club-guests-welcome-as-well/page/15#post-3239695
Basically I'd say go 22 and 10 and you should be ok.

I was scrolling through earlier but it didn't seem like there was a firm number lol. Sounds good, I'll add 'em to the list.

As an aside, it appears PBL finally sells them so that's great news..was building another order there anyway.

#3630 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I do like the red posts. I'll probably just buy those when I tear this damn thing back down. Does anyone have a count on how many tall vs. how many short? The short are ONLY in the inner chase...right?

I posted a post count a few pages back.

#3631 3 years ago

post #3450 for crude chart

#3632 3 years ago

Thank you!

Teardown begins...again...

I noticed also that some of my multiplier targets are sagging slightly and that allows for the potential of a stuck ball under the plastic. Is there any sort of adjustment or are there wear parts that might be affecting this?

Also, I'm sure I'm screwed buuuuut I'm missing a bell, I don't suppose there's a snowballs chance in hell I might be able to dig one up somewhere?

20201214_200232 (resized).jpg20201214_200232 (resized).jpg20201214_203419 (resized).jpg20201214_203419 (resized).jpg
#3633 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I noticed also that some of my multiplier targets are sagging slightly and that allows for the potential of a stuck ball under the plastic. Is there any sort of adjustment or are there wear parts that might be affecting this?

The drop target height is adjustable by the reset bar in the assembly. I can send you some pictures later if you need them. What I usually do is tape down some cardboard over the target holes in the playfield, then raise the reset bar with one hand until the tops of the targets are touching the cardboard, and screw down/tighten the reset bar screw with the other hand.

#3634 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

The drop target height is adjustable by the reset bar in the assembly. I can send you some pictures later if you need them. What I usually do is tape down some cardboard over the target holes in the playfield, then raise the reset bar with one hand until the tops of the targets are touching the cardboard, and screw down/tighten the reset bar screw with the other hand.

So they're supposed to all be one height? It seemed like mine got progressively more and more sunken up to the 5X where it's really out of whack. 2X actually seems pretty level.

At any rate it's probably not terribly important right now but I figured I'd put it out there now anyway; I'll take you up on that offer when I get the new hardtop down. Thanks!

#3635 3 years ago

KSUWildcatFan - it's actually the bottom plate of the assembly where the downed targets rest, not the "reset bar" I said earlier. The red arrows show where the screws are - loosen them up and you can adjust the height of the downed targets by "raising the floor". If your targets are progressively lower going from 2x thru to 5x, it's likely because the front part of the bottom plate is secured higher than the back part of the bottom plate, i.e. it's at a slope.

r1 (resized).jpgr1 (resized).jpgr2 (resized).jpgr2 (resized).jpg
#3636 3 years ago

Thanks, I'll give that a look tomorrow and see if I can adjust that out. Even if I have to do it again later at least I'll understand the mechanics.

Hopefully I can get the rest of the topside torn down tomorrow. At least it looks a bit more straightforward than my high speed was.

#3637 3 years ago

If you're unlucky you'll have to peel one of these back and redo. If you're REALLY unlucky, almost none of the art will come off with it.

20201217_100541 (resized).jpg20201217_100541 (resized).jpg
#3638 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

If you're unlucky you'll have to peel one of these back and redo. If you're REALLY unlucky, almost none of the art will come off with it.
[quoted image]

Is this the second time you’ve taken off a hard top from this game? I thought gluing the two spots and clearcoat prior to hardtop fixed the first issue?

#3639 3 years ago

Different guy, my hardtop started imploding with the very first play and only got worse. The final straw for me was the large ridge by the numbered balls in rows.. Hard shots hit the glass and slow ones changed direction. It made me so mad I immediately started ripping it apart. I'm almost done scraping the art off, then I need to remove some more adhesive, drop switches and target mechs, and then go sand so I can get back on schedule for applying the new hardtop when it gets here.

#3640 3 years ago

Finally got it all stripped off. Wanted to get in some sanding before I lost the light... and broke one of the mounts for the pop base

Can't find my naphtha but some dollar tree acetone took care of the adhesive after I got sick of burning through sanding pads. A bit more and I should be ready to shoot some clear. Gotta find that naphtha too.

IMG_20201217_153702 (resized).jpgIMG_20201217_153702 (resized).jpg20201217_161039 (resized).jpg20201217_161039 (resized).jpg20201217_163809 (resized).jpg20201217_163809 (resized).jpg20201217_165907 (resized).jpg20201217_165907 (resized).jpg20201217_171643 (resized).jpg20201217_171643 (resized).jpg
#3641 3 years ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Is this the second time you’ve taken off a hard top from this game? I thought gluing the two spots and clearcoat prior to hardtop fixed the first issue?

That was me. I pulled off the first EBD hardtop after it failed and clearcoated before putting down the replacement. That went well for several weeks, then I had two spots bubble up. Those failures were between the playfield surface and the hardtop glue (as opposed to between the glue and the hardtop artwork), so for those bubbles no artwork was affected. I was able to access the bubbled area but stuffing some epoxy in an edge opening along the large drop target assembly and clamping down.

Now, several weeks later, I have a similar bubble (no damaged artwork) in the right in-lane. It's tight, but I can get to it via the playfield lamp cutout under the in-lane guides. I have to use a needle (21g) syringe that I filled with cyanoacrylate glue to reach the bubble area, being careful not to move it around too much and scrape any artwork underneath the hardtop. Just did this tonight and clamped it down with a larger 8" c-clamp to reach that far into the playfield. Targeting this weekend for reassembly and play time.

CA Needle Location 02 (resized).jpgCA Needle Location 02 (resized).jpgRepair 01 (resized).jpgRepair 01 (resized).jpgRepair 04 (resized).jpgRepair 04 (resized).jpg
#3642 3 years ago

I really hope that's the last of the issues for you. If mine gives me issues once I put the new HT down, I may launch it into the sun.

Random, but do you by chance know the size of the three green inserts directly above the ball drop mech? 3/4? One of mine was cracked so I was going to replace it..but then I knocked out the wrong one because I'm an idiot so I'm replacing all three (was probably going to do that anyway TBH, just to make sure they looked the same).

Should they be opaque or translucent?

https://www.pinballlife.com/34-round-opaque-plain-green-playfield-insert.html
https://www.pinballlife.com/34-round-transparent-plain-green-playfield-insert.html

#3643 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

That was me. I pulled off the first EBD hardtop after it failed and clearcoated before putting down the replacement. That went well for several weeks, then I had two spots bubble up. Those failures were between the playfield surface and the hardtop glue (as opposed to between the glue and the hardtop artwork), so for those bubbles no artwork was affected.

Sorry for the confusion. Curious what outside edge’s response has been? Would you do anything different next time? I haven’t tried a hard top yet, but definitely considering them for future projects.

#3644 3 years ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Sorry for the confusion. Curious what outside edge’s response has been? Would you do anything different next time? I haven’t tried a hard top yet, but definitely considering them for future projects.

My Space Shuttle had the entire playfield sanded and then cleared prior to laying the hardtop down. It seemed to lift in the middle from the drive home (colorado to kansas, on a sunny day) but pressed back down and has been fine since.

I didn't clear my high speed (I did sand it all the way down) and it's been perfect since day one.

My Ebd was a disaster but it's obvious it was defective. 'Proper prep' or not, it shouldn't have separated like it did. The playfield wasn't fully sanded and it definitely wasn't cleared.

I'm taking no chances this time. Fully sanded and cleared prior to hardtop.

I need to replace at least 3 green inserts now (if not 8..it depends on how closely they match), finish the last bit of sanding, naphtha the shit out of it, and then clear. Then the long wait for the clear to stop outgassing... and I'll definitely let that cure longer than I probably need to. If this one fails I'm torching this thing in my yard and roasting marshmallows off the fire.

20201217_212826 (resized).jpg20201217_212826 (resized).jpg

#3645 3 years ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Sorry for the confusion. Curious what outside edge’s response has been? Would you do anything different next time? I haven’t tried a hard top yet, but definitely considering them for future projects.

No worries! Two different guys having hardtop failures on two different EBD's at about the same time....I can see how we could get confused.

*OE's Response*
Their response on my first failure was really good. They got back to me quickly, asked a lot of detailed questions, asked for close up/clear photos of the failure points, and after a few emails back and forth they took care of me. They did say this was "extremely rare" and felt my prep might have had something to do with it (I did not clear the entire playfield, even tho I sanded all the artwork off, because their instructions at the time mentioned clearing only the inserts if you chose not to wet sand them). They also suggested I may have overtightened posts in the area of the bubbling which could contribute to the lifting, but I'm not really buying that - I don't overtighten as I don't want to make indentations into the playfield/hardtop. But, they did take care of me and as I understand it, they also updated their installation instructions to be more direct with their recommendations (i.e. clearing the playfield to "seal in any potential contaminants that might interfere with their adhesive").

For the next two failures I had during the ensuing weeks (lifting with no art damage), I did not contact them. At that point, they probably wouldn't do anything for me and I certainly did not want to go through another removal and re-install. I was able to figure out a way to address the issues myself and, if no more areas pop up after this last one I'm working on this week, I'll be happy. Had I contacted them, I'm sure they would've pointed to my playfield as the culprit, i.e. after 40 years there's some contaminant in the wood that keeps surfacing and interacting with their adhesive. Even tho I cleared it this time.

*Would I do anything different next time?*
I'll definitely clear the entire playfield, and let it outgas for a week or more, before putting down a hardtop. Clearing with a rattle can is easy and way safer than 2PAC (which requires respirators and a bunny suit). It'll just take a little extra prep work like removing rollover wireforms, blocking lamp sockets, removing/protector mechs under the playfield, and other things you might have left in place when laying down a hardtop.

I also purchased a Black Knight hardtop at the same time I got the EBD - that will be my next project after I'm confident EBD is in my rearview mirror. Despite this experience, I'm still a big hardtop fan but I will admit my confidence is slightly shaken. My first hardtop, Mata Hari, was a breeze. I did it a year ago, sanded the playfield and wet sanded the inserts (no clear). 300+ plays later, still perfect. Then I started the EBD project (around April 2020) and I've got Black Knight queued up.

#3646 3 years ago

I agree the OE response is good. They want to make things right and it's obvious to me that not many of these fail (although maybe EBD has a higher rate? No idea). Still, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't...frustrated.. with this experience. I was ready to cut my losses and move my EBD down the road (because I knew it was rough and because I didn't really feel like taking on another hardtop after high speed, even though it turned out great BEFORE this hardtop fiasco). I opted not to sell it and paid someone to install the hardtop and make things less...rough.

I don't think that work was done poorly, and unfortunately I don't think it would have mattered. The art separated from the plastic entirely. It is what it is. All I can do is strip it off (done!), sand it all down (almost), make sure all the inserts are nice and level (working on it, and I'm going to replace some more), clean/clear/clean/clear (yes, that fun pattern) and wait a couple of weeks.. then naphtha one last time right before the hardtop goes down--just like I did when I did high speed. From there, I'm going to take one suggestion Mathazar made and be VERY careful not to overtighten ANYTHING as I reassemble.

If it fails again in what I feel are the absolute BEST chances for success, I'll either light the damn thing on fire in anger, or I'll finally give in and do a CPR playfield swap. I'm certainly hoping it doesn't come to that and the second hardtop is the end of my story (well, aside from the cab repair / pinball pimp stencils). I was really excited to bring it home and play the hell out of it before it all went to hell. I'd like to get to that point. This was supposed to be my centerpiece and I still intend to get it there.

I'm still a big hardtop fan and I think OE is offering an awesome product. I won't rip apart a game that has a playfield I feel can be saved but my EBD was hideous and my High Speed had some scars too. I'm fine with both of those. But for example my Taxi, which only has minor pop wear and discoloring outside the factory mylar that I'm not sure if I'll be able to correct or not...I don't think I could ever hardtop it. It just feels wrong.

#3647 3 years ago

Pretty much at a standstill until I order and receive new inserts unfortunately. I guess I need to get that order placed.

20201218_123531 (resized).jpg20201218_123531 (resized).jpg20201218_134136 (resized).jpg20201218_134136 (resized).jpg

Side note, is it possible to buy the latch hardware for the backbox? My glass falls out when i fold the head over and that's... not great.

20201218_150450 (resized).jpg20201218_150450 (resized).jpg
#3648 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Pretty much at a standstill until I order and receive new inserts unfortunately.

Hey KSUWildcatFan - sorry I missed your earlier post. Ya, those green inserts are 3/4" and opaque (at least on mine). While we're at it - I noticed your yellow standup targets behind the drop targets look like translucent yellow. Are they? They're supposed to be solid yellow if you want to put a few more things in your Marco's insert order.

Took the clamps off my glue job this afternoon and since I had the playfield out, I converted the last two IDC connectors for the lamp board to Molex even tho they weren't given me any problems. One last thing before I put the playfield back in this weekend - I'm going to experiment and change out the leaf switch for the star rollover to a microswitch. I rebuilt the old leaf switch (with a new cap) and even put in an entirely brand new leaf switch (with a new cap) but still, every once in a while, the rollover wouldn't register on a particularly hard shot up the orbit. Going to see if a microswitch behaves any better.

#3649 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Side note, is it possible to buy the latch hardware for the backbox? My glass falls out when i fold the head over and that's... not great.

Here's the part number, but I've never seen it in stock at Marco's or anywhere else: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3868

If you want to venture out of the US, here's a used one in the Netherlands: https://www.flippersloop.nl/en_GB/a-56145420/various/glass-lock-assembly-a-3868-bally-used/#description

Early Bally SS Backbox HW Diagram (resized).jpgEarly Bally SS Backbox HW Diagram (resized).jpg
#3650 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Thank you!
Teardown begins...again...
I noticed also that some of my multiplier targets are sagging slightly and that allows for the potential of a stuck ball under the plastic. Is there any sort of adjustment or are there wear parts that might be affecting this?
Also, I'm sure I'm screwed buuuuut I'm missing a bell, I don't suppose there's a snowballs chance in hell I might be able to dig one up somewhere?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Are you sticking with the white caps/rings?

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