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(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

7 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by KSUWildcatFan
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#3501 9 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Evolution of Bally's later flipper coil stop hardware:
Some are self tapping...
All basically are 3/8th of an inch long
All are 10-32 thread.
Best practice is the last piece on the far right; used by Williams.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I have seen 2 variations of the linear flipper mounting plate. 8-32 and 10-32 for the coil stop. The 10-32 mostly on the 84 games, like the last version of EBD and Spy Hunter etc. Therefore one must have the coil stops with the larger holes to accommodate the 10-32 screw.

Like I posted earlier in this thread and most people don't realize, these mounting plates are reversible so if the screw holes for the coil stop are wiped out you just flip the bases to the opposite sides. There are usually virgin holes so all the parts can be transferred to the new holes without having to drill or tap them. You just thread a self tapping screw in the unused holes. You need to make sure the screw threads are in good condition, use one from the bushing or EOS mounting bracket. The screw will be snug as it goes in, and it can be backed out a little to let metal shavings fall and then thread screw down until it bottoms out. Remove screw and you have a nice clean threaded hole to work with.

#3502 9 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I have seen 2 variations of the linear flipper mounting plate. 8-32 and 10-32 for the coil stop. The 10-32 mostly on the 84 games, like the last version of EBD and Spy Hunter etc. Therefore one must have the coil stops with the larger holes to accommodate the 10-32 screw.
Like I posted earlier in this thread and most people don't realize, these mounting plates are reversible so if the screw holes for the coil stop are wiped out you just flip the bases to the opposite sides. There are usually virgin holes so all the parts can be transferred to the new holes without having to drill or tap them. You just thread a self tapping screw in the unused holes. You need to make sure the screw threads are in good condition, use one from the bushing or EOS mounting bracket. The screw will be snug as it goes in, and it can be backed out a little to let metal shavings fall and then thread screw down until it bottoms out. Remove screw and you have a nice clean threaded hole to work with.

I find that just adding PEM nuts to the brackets fixes them...

#3503 9 days ago

Whenever I have a flipper base plate out, I like to glue nylon lock nuts under the base plate coil stop threads for long term reliability.

#3504 9 days ago
Quoted from BorisSWort:

The second one has been spray painted black. What brand and color of paint would work to get it back to the yellow color

I would reach out to Pinball Pimp for stencils. Hey may have paint colors too.

http://pinballpimpstencils.com/eight-ball-deluxe/

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#3505 9 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I find that just adding PEM nuts to the brackets fixes them...

That is a good quick and easy solution. A while back I saw someone make a flat bar that was threaded to do almost the same thing. I don't remember who though.

#3506 9 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

A while back I saw someone make a flat bar that was threaded to do almost the same thing. I don't remember who though.

Tom Callahan at the the repair connection used to sell what he called bally "bolt bars" - which did work to make the coil stop really solid; however, it stored tons of saved magnetism and ruined the performance of the flipper and caused them to stick.

#3507 8 days ago

I thought the 84 was the one with the hinged back box?

#3508 8 days ago

My eight ball target often gets dropped by the vibration generated by the pop bumpers... Any adjustment suggestion to prevent this from happening ?
Thanks!

#3509 8 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

My eight ball target often gets dropped by the vibration generated by the pop bumpers... Any adjustment suggestion to prevent this from happening ?
Thanks!

I would say your drop targets are old and worn or your mech may have cracked or loose guides allowing slack and the targets will drop.

#3510 8 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I would say your drop targets are old and worn or your mech may have cracked or loose guides allowing slack and the targets will drop.

Thanks. The target is ok... and the mech and its guides look good. I suspect the spring not to be the right model.

#3511 8 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Thanks. The target is ok... and the mech and its guides look good. I suspect the spring not to be the right model.

Or the bracket needs to be adjust so as the lip of the drop target has more surface to grab.

#3512 8 days ago
Quoted from Pinwiz4040:

I thought the 84 was the one with the hinged back box?

It is.

#3513 8 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

My eight ball target often gets dropped by the vibration generated by the pop bumpers... Any adjustment suggestion to prevent this from happening ?
Thanks!

The 8 ball drop target assembly is adjustable as is the inline drop target bank. Look for a plate on the bottom and loosen the screws, they should have washers on them. Loosen them just enough to let the adjustment plate to move. Your target may be set too high and the lip in front of the target may not be seating properly. The lip could be worn down and it's slipping off. You can possibly file the lip flat. And yes, if the spring isn't correct that could also be the problem.

#3514 7 days ago

Just a quick progress preview pic I got today. Holy crap this thing is looking great.

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#3515 7 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

I would say your drop targets are old

Quoted from vec-tor:

Or the bracket needs to be adjust so as the lip of the drop target has more surface to grab.

Quoted from Lovef2k:

...The lip could be worn down and it's slipping off. You can possibly file the lip flat...

Thanks for all the advice. The drop target was resting on enough surface. But it was too "slippery" and too easy for it to slip back and drop. I gently filed it with 100 grain paper to give it some "grab" and did the same thing to the metal surface... and it did the trick.

#3516 7 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Thanks for all the advice. The drop target was resting on enough surface. But it was too "slippery" and too easy for it to slip back and drop. I gently filed it with 100 grain paper to give it some "grab" and did the same thing to the metal surface... and it did the trick.

Excellent!

#3517 7 days ago

How does everyone keep their pop bumper caps on? The little plastic tabs on mine are constantly breaking (another one broke over the weekend).

I now have a big stack of broken caps that I have accumulated over the years (and new caps are getting more and more expensive to buy).

I've tried the hot glue thing, but it eventually comes loose (and looks ugly too). Some of the caps I have have screw holes in them, but there are no places in the actual bumper below for the screws to go into - so I'm not sure what the point there is.

Has anyone tried to produce a replacement cap with a beefier tab? Even a generic orange one that didn't break would be better than more broken EBD ones.

#3518 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

How does everyone keep their pop bumper caps on? The little plastic tabs on mine are constantly breaking (another one broke over the weekend).
I now have a big stack of broken caps that I have accumulated over the years (and new caps are getting more and more expensive to buy).
I've tried the hot glue thing, but it eventually comes loose (and looks ugly too). Some of the caps I have have screw holes in them, but there are no places in the actual bumper below for the screws to go into - so I'm not sure what the point there is.
Has anyone tried to produce a replacement cap with a beefier tab? Even a generic orange one that didn't break would be better than more broken EBD ones.

I have been lucky super gluing them back on with the gel type glue. Not ideal but it does hold up well in my game.

#3519 7 days ago

My original caps looked like hammered dog shit and it appears they had to get the glue treatment also.

I was going to just buy new amber ones to replace them but the fact that I don't think they look that good to begin with AND that they seem to break.....easily....prompted me to explore other options. Having copycat white ones made will hopefully yield better results. Guess time will tell. I like the physical design a lot better, at any rate.

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#3520 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

My original caps looked like hammered dog shit and it appears they had to get the glue treatment also.
I was going to just buy new amber ones to replace them but the fact that I don't think they look that good to begin with AND that they seem to break.....easily....prompted me to explore other options. Having copycat white ones made will hopefully yield better results. Guess time will tell. I like the physical design a lot better, at any rate.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Cool! Are you selling these? I'm missing a cap on one of mine and considering my options.

#3521 7 days ago
Quoted from midcoastsurf:

Cool! Are you selling these? I'm missing a cap on one of mine and considering my options.

I considered it, but the cost would probably price most people out. Just the bare parts alone ran me around $50, and then I paid my friend's wife $5 per cap for the artwork. The labor isn't terrible -- apply art, lightly clear, shave a bit off the bodies -- so I suppose I could cut myself out entirely and just give info on the process/parts and then my friend's wife could just send out the decals as requested?

I think she made me a second set (I bought the extra parts just in case it didn't work out on the trial run) but I was just going to stash those away in case I needed them later. I have no idea as to the long-term performance/lastability of these but IMO it's a better design than the stock amber junk, at least.

One thing to note, this modification replaces the original body, cap, AND collar. So you'll be rebuilding the pops (topside) in order to use them. If pricing doesn't price everyone out, I assume that will catch the majority of the rest!

#3522 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I considered it, but the cost would probably price most people out. Just the bare parts alone ran me around $50, and then I paid my friend's wife $5 per cap for the artwork. The labor isn't terrible -- apply art, lightly clear, shave a bit off the bodies -- so I suppose I could cut myself out entirely and just give info on the process/parts and then my friend's wife could just send out the decals as requested?
I think she made me a second set (I bought the extra parts just in case it didn't work out on the trial run) but I was just going to stash those away in case I needed them later. I have no idea as to the long-term performance/lastability of these but IMO it's a better design than the stock amber junk, at least.
One thing to note, this modification replaces the original body, cap, AND collar. So you'll be rebuilding the pops (topside) in order to use them. If pricing doesn't price everyone out, I assume that will catch the majority of the rest!

I'm confused. What exactly did you do here? Did you re-design the whole pop bumper mechanism? It's unclear to me what the difference is.

You said that you remade new white caps, but those look like the regular orange ones to me. Did you buy the "plain" orange caps and add a decal to them? If so, how is that going to prevent the tabs from breaking on the plain caps?

You said $50 for parts, but it's not clear what parts you replaced / changed. Please explain. Cost is less of a factor for me (I've probably spent $200 in replacement caps over the past 35 years).

Thanks.

#3523 7 days ago

Just started with my Mirco EBD playfield swap.
It's a very clean playfield but already noticed some incorrect " dimples " just near the bats .
In fact it aren't dimples but holes .
The two lower ones aren't a big issue but what to think of the higher left one

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#3524 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I'm confused. What exactly did you do here? Did you re-design the whole pop bumper mechanism? It's unclear to me what the difference is.
You said that you remade new white caps, but those look like the regular orange ones to me. Did you buy the "plain" orange caps and add a decal to them? If so, how is that going to prevent the tabs from breaking on the plain caps?
You said $50 for parts, but it's not clear what parts you replaced / changed. Please explain. Cost is less of a factor for me (I've probably spent $200 in replacement caps over the past 35 years).
Thanks.

It's a retrofitted system entirely. The center cap snaps into the lower body piece which also includes the outer ring -- but in one combined piece. The original EBD body is completely different.

I suppose it's possible these cap clips could break also...

I don't have enough experience to know why the amber caps would have issue since mine were already glued when I got it. Why do they break so easily?
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#3525 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

How does everyone keep their pop bumper caps on? The little plastic tabs on mine are constantly breaking (another one broke over the weekend).

black 5-40 wood screws.

#3526 7 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

black 5-40 wood screws.

Yup! I had some NOS caps with the tabs that I put on my restored game a few years ago. Within the first 6 months, two of them had broken tabs.

I said F it and put the old ones in with black screws and they look just fine.

#3527 7 days ago

Is it the outer ring or the inner cap that breaks?

#3528 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Is it the outer ring or the inner cap that breaks?

Answer: The inner cap tabs break.
Note: Bally had a "plastic ring" retrofit for keeping the outer collar plastic from
------ rotating do to vibrations... Final best solution, was two screws through the
------ cap into the main body as first implemented with Strange Science.

#3529 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Is it the outer ring or the inner cap that breaks?

It's the little plastic tabs on the inner cap that break. I can provide a picture of my stack of broken caps when I get home this evening.

Quoted from vec-tor:

black 5-40 wood screws.

What do you screw them into? On my pop bumper body there is nothing there to "receive" the screws. The screws would simply sit in the hole and not be attached to anything.

Is there a different style of body piece that this needs?

#3530 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

It's the little plastic tabs on the inner cap that break. I can provide a picture of my stack of broken caps when I get home this evening.

What do you screw them into? On my pop bumper body there is nothing there to "receive" the screws. The screws would simply sit in the hole and not be attached to anything.

I mean, that would seem to indicate that this system will have the same problems, then..I think? Another reason to not even try selling them, I guess. The last thing I want is to be directly responsible for the frustrations of others!

#3531 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Is there a different style of body piece that this needs?

Looking at the picture above of the body piece from Marco, that looks different than the ones I have. Mine don't have those obvious screw holes in them.

Maybe that's my real problem. I guess that I will have to see about replacing them. I've been wanting to rebuild them anyway, so I guess this makes for a good excuse.

#3532 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I mean, that would seem to indicate that this system will have the same problems, then..I think? Another reason to not even try selling them, I guess. The last thing I want is to be directly responsible for the frustrations of others!

Are these 3D printed or something? How did you make these? Not trying to steal any secrets or anything but they look fantastic.

#3533 7 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Are these 3D printed or something? How did you make these? Not trying to steal any secrets or anything but they look fantastic.

Wasn't even my idea. They're gottlieb caps/bodies that have been modified to fit.

I might be protective of it if it were genuinely my idea / design. But it wasn't.

I'm happy to pass on the knowledge to anyone who wants to try it, or I can probably do all the work and supply them ready for install to those who aren't able. I think they look phenomenal...I just hope they don't break like it sounds is so common on EBD.

#3534 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Looking at the picture above of the body piece from Marco, that looks different than the ones I have. Mine don't have those obvious screw holes in them.
Maybe that's my real problem. I guess that I will have to see about replacing them. I've been wanting to rebuild them anyway, so I guess this makes for a good excuse.

I originally bought the proper bodies (as in the Marco picture), but not new amber caps, in order to rebuild my pops post-hardtop and then found out about the custom white caps. Made my decision really easy.

#3535 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Wasn't even my idea. They're gottlieb caps/bodies that have been modified to fit.
I might be protective of it if it were genuinely my idea / design. But it wasn't.
I'm happy to pass on the knowledge to anyone who wants to try it, or I can probably do all the work and supply them ready for install to those who aren't able. I think they look phenomenal...I just hope they don't break like it sounds is so common on EBD.

Thanks for the info. I would be interested in buying.

#3536 7 days ago
Quoted from thierryv:

Just started with my Mirco EBD playfield swap.
It's a very clean playfield but already noticed some incorrect " dimples " just near the bats .
In fact it aren't dimples but holes .
The two lower ones aren't a big issue but what to think of the higher left one

Wow looks like they did the flipper alignment hole as a screw hole.

#3537 7 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

black 5-40 wood screws.

Did you mean 5-40 machine screws or #5 wood screws? Length?

#3538 7 days ago
Quoted from kursiv:

Wow looks like they did the flipper alignment hole as a screw hole.

indeed, I already informed Mirco about this.
Hopefully he will send me another playfield at half the price now

#3539 7 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

What do you screw them into? On my pop bumper body there is nothing there to "receive" the screws. The screws would simply sit in the hole and not be attached to anything.

The round hub that the ring and rod fit into has a "roof" on the inside of the body.
One has to drill a small hole... Later made molds would incorporate the small hole.

#3540 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Wasn't even my idea. They're gottlieb caps/bodies that have been modified to fit.
I might be protective of it if it were genuinely my idea / design. But it wasn't.
I'm happy to pass on the knowledge to anyone who wants to try it, or I can probably do all the work and supply them ready for install to those who aren't able. I think they look phenomenal...I just hope they don't break like it sounds is so common on EBD.

How did you do the " cord " print on the GTB popbumper ?
Do you have that file as well for the GTB cap ?

#3541 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I mean, that would seem to indicate that this system will have the same problems, then..I think? Another reason to not even try selling them, I guess. The last thing I want is to be directly responsible for the frustrations of others!

It might look ok with the tiny black screws. It looks like that body has threaded inserts for screws.

#3542 6 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

It might look ok with the tiny black screws. It looks like that body has threaded inserts for screws.

I'm wondering if the inner caps break because the outer collar is technically not a solid part of the body? Basically you have the body, the collar snapped on to that, and the cap snapped on to the collar. That's a lot of potential stress points in an area that gets a lot of abuse (duh, that's the point).

The custom white pops, by comparison, have a solid body/collar and the stress points are just for the cap, which shouldn't really see any abuse. I'd think only the bodies themselves would receive the abuse and the cap should be isolated. But I'm also no engineer and that could be 100% incorrect.

#3543 6 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

The custom white pops

That is a Gottlieb part. Not a Bally part.
Note: Gottlieb caps are made with a more pliable plastic...
------ also Gottlieb pop bumper caps use only two prongs of attachment.
------ also when one tries to put on said caps they are going to be in
------ three deferent positions. Which then, one has to cut and hack
------ a solution in order for the final product to look decent.
Note: Bally caps are made of rigid plastic are brittle and have three prongs.
------ the mounting prongs tend to be inline with the ring and rods.
------ Thus, the bottom tips get "nicked" do to the ball actions against the ring
------ and robs along with the vibrations of the pounding action....
------ In all, not a very well thought out design.

#3544 6 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

That is a Gottlieb part. Not a Bally part.

I think I said that. It's a Gottlieb body that's been modified to work in a Bally machine using otherwise stock mounting hardware.

Quoted from vec-tor:

------ also when one tries to put on said caps they are going to be in
------ three deferent positions. Which then, one has to cut and hack
------ a solution in order for the final product to look decent.

If you're simply meaning that it's important to note orientation during design, I agree. Installation should be no big deal because it will be obvious which way is up based on the artwork.

Updated pics of mine! Backglass hasn't been swapped with my new shay glass yet and the inner 'ring' of sockets either need replaced -- again -- or I need to use a very short bulb, probably 1SMD warm white domeless. I'll order some of those with my BF order so I can try different setups.

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Obviously the cab is still.....ugly. I've got a stencil kit from PinballPimp downstairs for it.....someday.

#3545 6 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I think I said that. It's a Gottlieb body that's been modified to work in a Bally machine using otherwise stock mounting hardware.

If you're simply meaning that it's important to note orientation during design, I agree. Installation should be no big deal because it will be obvious which way is up based on the artwork.
Updated pics of mine! Backglass hasn't been swapped with my new shay glass yet and the inner 'ring' of sockets either need replaced -- again -- or I need to use a very short bulb, probably 1SMD warm white domeless. I'll order some of those with my BF order so I can try different setups.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Obviously the cab is still.....ugly. I've got a stencil kit from PinballPimp downstairs for it.....someday.

On your inner rings of lights, are you referring to the chase lights under the upper clear plastics? If so you need PBR sockets part # A4762. We ran into this with my playfield swap.

4th one down:

http://www.pbresource.com/sockets.html

#3546 6 days ago

I think so? All of these guys.

Those clear plastics suck. In addition to the one incorrect piece Shay sent me (around the 8ball target) the clear plastics under the flipper guides are drilled differently. Not really sure how I'm going to address that just yet.

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#3547 6 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I think so? All of these guys.
Those clear plastics suck. In addition to the one incorrect piece Shay sent me (around the 8ball target) the clear plastics under the flipper guides are drilled differently. Not really sure how I'm going to address that just yet.
[quoted image]

Yes those are the sockets. Also 2 more sockets down by the flippers under those clear plastics. Make sure you get these from PBR and not Marco. They are different. Marcos will not fit look even though they look similar. We went through 3 different sizes before we found the correct socket.

#3548 6 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Yes those are the sockets. Also 2 more sockets down by the flippers under those clear plastics. Make sure you get these from PBR and not Marco. They are different. Marcos will not fit look even though they look similar. We went through 3 different sizes before we found the correct socket.

Typical Marco. Color me unsurprised. PBR is a much better resource, but holy gawd the ordering process stinks lol.

Would the proper sockets for the inserts be the 6th ones down -- A2916? I figure I might be willing to do that nonsense later on down the road, like when I have the playfield out of the cab for an extended period of time so I can repaint it. Might as well order them now if so.

#3549 6 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

the clear plastics under the flipper guides are drilled differently. Not really sure how I'm going to address that just yet.

I second that - I'm having a similar issue. I finally got sick of the ball hopping over the metal in-lane guides on hard shots that I dug out some clear EBD plastics I've picked up over the years knowing I'd have to make some new holes since they don't line up. I've got 5....no idea why I have an odd number, all are new with protective film still on them. Not sure where I got these (too much time has passed) but I know at least one set came from Marco's. All 5 have the same hole alignments (bad, doesn't line up with the metal guides or the playfield holes) and all have different color peel away plastic protector film suggesting different sources or at least different batches.

Anyway, putting new holes in the plastic is easy enough, and I already had the extra bells to put in them to make the double-decker plastic and metal combo guides. Unfortunately, after installing, I now have the dreaded "ball hop" as the ball movement transitions from the clear plastic guide to the flipper. Oy.

I then thought I'd be clever and take another plastic guide and position the holes in such a way the top edge of the guide is even or slightly above the flipper rubber so that the ball hop is eliminated. That worked, but now the guide itself is too close the slingshot rubber and the ball gets stuck in the in-lane. Oy.

Three plastics messed up and two left. I'm contemplating what to try next....I don't want to trash my last pair.

#3550 6 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I second that - I'm having a similar issue. I finally got sick of the ball hopping over the metal in-lane guides on hard shots that I dug out some clear EBD plastics I've picked up over the years knowing I'd have to make some new holes since they don't line up. I've got 5....no idea why I have an odd number, all are new with protective film still on them. Not sure where I got these (too much time has passed) but I know at least one set came from Marco's. All 5 have the same hole alignments (bad, doesn't line up with the metal guides or the playfield holes) and all have different color peel away plastic protector film suggesting different sources or at least different batches.
Anyway, putting new holes in the plastic is easy enough, and I already had the extra bells to put in them to make the double-decker plastic and metal combo guides. Unfortunately, after installing, I now have the dreaded "ball hop" as the ball movement transitions from the clear plastic guide to the flipper. Oy.
I then thought I'd be clever and take another plastic guide and position the holes in such a way the top edge of the guide is even or slightly above the flipper rubber so that the ball hop is eliminated. That worked, but now the guide itself is too close the slingshot rubber and the ball gets stuck in the in-line. Oy.
Three plastics messed up and two left. I'm contemplating what to try next....I don't want to trash my last pair.

Yikes! I think my old ones ended up getting reinstalled for the time being. Not really sure where to go with it. Kind of the same deal with that curved plastic that apparently shouldn't be.

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