chattering is usually either a short to something or a bad connect to the SEB.
(Topic ID: 66114)
Linked Games
Eight Ball Deluxe
Bally, 1981-
Eight Ball Deluxe
Bally, 1984
-
Eight Ball Deluxe Limited Edition
Bally, 1982
Topic Gallery
Oak Harbor, OH
Quoted from meSz:EBD Owners help a schematically challenged guy out! In my picture you can see I have a Black/Green (b/g) wire that has no home. I know that wire is lighting up the 4X insert but I don’t know where the other is to go? I found b/g is going to J3 on lamp board pin 14 the schematic shows this to be for FROM AUXL. EXPANDER J1 pin3 but that’s a solid black wire.
Also notice pin2 on the Expander J1 you’ll see it’s a light blue wire that comes in but then, it appears someone jumped it, goes out to the 555 socket above the Expander.
So my questions are.... is the light blue wire going to the Expandor a hack?
Where does the b/g wire go?
[quoted image]
There should be 2 solid blue thin wires going directly to the SEB lamp. they should be coming from the harness(loom) below the flipper. It looks like some tried to make a repair of the wiring that seems to be missing. What color is the blue/green wire above the heat shrink repair?
Quoted from meSz:EBD Owners help a schematically challenged guy out! In my picture you can see I have a Black/Green (b/g) wire that has no home. I know that wire is lighting up the 4X insert but I don’t know where the other is to go? I found b/g is going to J3 on lamp board pin 14 the schematic shows this to be for FROM AUXL. EXPANDER J1 pin3 but that’s a solid black wire.
Also notice pin2 on the Expander J1 you’ll see it’s a light blue wire that comes in but then, it appears someone jumped it, goes out to the 555 socket above the Expander.
So my questions are.... is the light blue wire going to the Expandor a hack?
Where does the b/g wire go?
[quoted image]
A5J3-14 [84] black/green 4x bonus lamp
*********************************
{back box }
A3J3-16 [84] black/green +5 volt (power supply) to
A5J4-3 [84] black/green +5 volt input ( lamp driver board)
**********************************************
What is the root color of the wire? The wire is cut up and shrink tubed.
Is the wire a splice? More clear pictures of the wiring harness....
Might have to cut the tie wraps.
Quoted from Charger68:Cleaned fuse holders, wired spare rectifier in parallel, back box is grounded, no change in seb when putting pressure on it. Also noticed top saucer does nothing during game play. Incandescent by seb.Could the seb be bad
The relay could be bad or the supply volatge at J1 pin 9 is low. Should be 43V. Basically the SEB switches power from pin 7 and 5. If all the other coils fire, then the saucer may be a separate issue. Is this game new to you, did it ever work correctly since in your possession?
Quoted from Charger68:Look good to me. What do you think
[quoted image]
Looking at this pic closer, I think pin 9 could use reflowing. That's your 43V line.
Quoted from jj44114:looks like the header joints were reflowed.
It won't hurt to do them again, at least just pin 9. I think I see a void around the pin. There could be be oxidation around the pin causing weak voltage? I'm reaching somewhat yes, but we're not getting anywhere so far 
I'm also wondering if someone installed the wrong coil on the saucer if it never worked for him. I seen that a few times with EBD...
Quoted from Lovef2k:There should be 2 solid blue thin wires going directly to the SEB lamp. they should be coming from the harness(loom) below the flipper. It looks like some tried to make a repair of the wiring that seems to be missing. What color is the blue/green wire above the heat shrink repair?
Quoted from vec-tor:What is the root color of the wire? The wire is cut up and shrink tubed.
Is the wire a splice? More clear pictures of the wiring harness....
Might have to cut the tie wraps.
I believe you two are eluding to the solid blue wire going into pin1. It’s solid blue but the sheathing was pinched to the point wire was exposed so shrink tube was put on it to avoid any issues.
DEB509B9-8406-4ADF-B4FF-C908E0471763 (resized).jpegQuoted from Charger68:The saucer coil work during solenoid test just seems weak
my game has a thin dark blue wire going to the SEB J1 pin 2. The lamp by the SEB is getting 2 wire of the same color and type. From what I gather the wires in that loom were damaged or missing, There is blue/green wire is not associated with the SEB or the lamp. I'm thinking that the blue wire from the SEB is supposed to go through the harness and back to the lamp socket. The second thin blue wire comes from the lamp driver (A5) J3 pin 11. With that, I think they basically wired it the same way only they replaced some wire with the color that had on hand. In short, the wire from j3 pin 11 come down to the playfield and splits to the lamp sock and then back to the SEB J1 pin2.
Quoted from Charger68:They do, tried pulling voltage during lamp test,dmm was all over the place
are you measuring for DC?
Quoted from Charger68:Should pin 9 have 43volts all the time
yes it comes from the coil/solenoid line voltage
Quoted from Charger68:They do, tried pulling voltage during lamp test,dmm was all over the place
check voltage at the coil. Either side. 43V? ground one side. does it fire?
Quoted from Lovef2k:my game has a thin dark blue wire going to the SEB J1 pin 2. The lamp by the SEB is getting 2 wire of the same color and type. From what I gather the wires in that loom were damaged or missing, There is blue/green wire is not associated with the SEB or the lamp. I'm thinking that the blue wire from the SEB is supposed to go through the harness and back to the lamp socket. The second thin blue wire comes from the lamp driver (A5) J3 pin 11. With that, I think they basically wired it the same way only they replaced some wire with the color that had on hand. In short, the wire from j3 pin 11 come down to the playfield and splits to the lamp sock and then back to the SEB J1 pin2.
sorry replied to the wrong person
Quoted from meSz:I believe you two are eluding to the solid blue wire going into pin1. It’s solid blue but the sheathing was pinched to the point wire was exposed so shrink tube was put on it to avoid any issues.
[quoted image]
my game has a thin dark blue wire going to the SEB J1 pin 2. The lamp by the SEB is getting 2 wire of the same color and type. From what I gather the wires in that loom were damaged or missing, There is blue/green wire is not associated with the SEB or the lamp. I'm thinking that the blue wire from the SEB is supposed to go through the harness and back to the lamp socket. The second thin blue wire comes from the lamp driver (A5) J3 pin 11. With that, I think they basically wired it the same way only they replaced some wire with the color that had on hand. In short, the wire from j3 pin 11 come down to the playfield and splits to the lamp sock and then back to the SEB J1 pin2.
Quoted from Lovef2k:my game has a thin dark blue wire going to the SEB J1 pin 2. The lamp by the SEB is getting 2 wire of the same color and type. From what I gather the wires in that loom were damaged or missing, There is blue/green wire is not associated with the SEB or the lamp. I'm thinking that the blue wire from the SEB is supposed to go through the harness and back to the lamp socket. The second thin blue wire comes from the lamp driver (A5) J3 pin 11. With that, I think they basically wired it the same way only they replaced some wire with the color that had on hand. In short, the wire from j3 pin 11 come down to the playfield and splits to the lamp sock and then back to the SEB J1 pin2.
SEB J1 pin2 and lamp socket are wired in parallel to lamp driver J3 pin 11. Your J1 pin 1 on SEB looks correct
I've never come across a bad relay in 30 in years on either a SDB or SEB unless it got water logged and corroded.
Quoted from jj44114:I've never come across a bad relay in 30 in years on either a SDB or SEB unless it got water logged and corroded.
It probably is rare but ya never know. Aren't these the same as the flipper enable relay?
Quoted from meSz:I believe you two are eluding to the solid blue wire going into pin1. It’s solid blue but the sheathing was pinched to the point wire was exposed so shrink tube was put on it to avoid any issues.
[quoted image]
Compare your solenoid expander relays to these pictures.
EBD relay (resized).jpg
Note: the #555 lamp has two 22AWG blue wire
EBD relay-1 (resized).jpg
The blue 22AWG lamp buss goes to the lamp 1st
then to pin 2 of solenoid expander relay.
EBD relay-2 (resized).jpg
Your pictures...
EBD relay-3 (resized).jpg
and
EBD relay-4 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Lovef2k:It probably is rare but ya never know. Aren't these the same as the flipper enable relay?
Yes. The same
Quoted from vec-tor:Compare your solenoid expander relays to these pictures.
[quoted image]
Note: the #555 lamp has two 22AWG blue wire
[quoted image]
The blue 22AWG lamp buss goes to the lamp 1st
then to pin 2 of solenoid expander relay.
[quoted image]
Your pictures...
[quoted image]
and
[quoted image]
The lamp bus line is pin 1 SEB and then to the lamp socket base, pin 2 is the switching wire from A5 J3 pin 11.
Thanks for the posts! So not sure if this matters or not but this is an early production machine (has the plastic playfield) so not sure if that matters as I know sometimes manufacturers changed things up.
Quoted from Lovef2k:The lamp bus line is pin 1 SEB and then to the lamp socket base, pin 2 is the switching wire from A5 J3 pin 11.
Quoted from vec-tor:Compare your solenoid expander relays to these pictures.
[quoted image]
Note: the #555 lamp has two 22AWG blue wire
[quoted image]
The blue 22AWG lamp buss goes to the lamp 1st
then to pin 2 of solenoid expander relay.
[quoted image]
Your pictures...
[quoted image]
and
[quoted image]
In comparing I notice that your pictures the wiring is different. First thing I notice is the wire to the light socket above the SEB cones down from the front of the pf whereas mine....there's no wire to do as such. For my machine it has to be either the blue wire from Pin2 on the SEB or the Black/Green wire.
This machine has sat for several years and I finally have it all back together to the point I am ready to fire it up. Just leary as I dont want to fry anything. Guess I could de-solder the blue wire turn machine on and see what doesn't work and go from there.
Quoted from meSz:Thanks for the posts! So not sure if this matters or not but this is an early production machine (has the plastic playfield) so not sure if that matters as I know sometimes manufacturers changed things up.
In comparing I notice that your pictures the wiring is different. First thing I notice is the wire to the light socket above the SEB cones down from the front of the pf whereas mine....there's no wire to do as such. For my machine it has to be either the blue wire from Pin2 on the SEB or the Black/Green wire.
This machine has sat for several years and I finally have it all back together to the point I am ready to fire it up. Just leary as I dont want to fry anything. Guess I could de-solder the blue wire turn machine on and see what doesn't work and go from there.
Please reread post 3021. It looks like it will work as is although it looks like a hack. The Blu/grn wire looks like an add on since the original thin blue wire is MIA. They used whatever wire they had available. Plastic pf makes no difference. It's just an early game. What's the serial number on left side of cab?
Ultimately the blue wire from lamp driver J3 pin 11 is coming from the head and goes down to the pf wire harness. It has to be long enough to reach the lamp socket by the SEB. Apparently your was damaged a some point. Then another blue thin wire identical to the wire from J3 pin goes from the lamp socket and returns to the harness and goes to the SEB J1 pin 2. So there should be 2 thin blue wires at the lamp socket tab. A single blue wire at SEB pin 2. The thicker light blue wire is J1 pin a and goes to the base of the lamp socket at SEB. So, pin 1 is the supply voltage and the pin 2 is the switching/ground side of the socket. Take more pics if you find it. Also see if there is continuity between the J3 pin 11 and J1 pin2 SEB. If there is, the coils should work, if not some coils will not but you should be able to power up. If in doubt, you can unplug the 4 right connectors at the power supply, turn on game measure the test points at the power supply. If good, turn off power, reconnect the 4 connectors and power up again. If the game goes into attract mode. Test all coils.
From your pic, you need to find out were the other end of the wire with the blu-grn goes. Find out the original color. It looks black in your pic but could be dark blue?
To help you understand a little more, all of the switched lamps in the game have a supply voltage (buss) to the socket base. each socket is switched by the colored wire soldered to the tabs. In this case, the SEB lamp socket has to go back to the SEB and switch the relay. Look at the SEB schematic if you have it. It's page W-1251 b in the manual.
Looks like i have 3.3 vdc coming off the rear bridge and at the light by the seb. It should be 6.5. The bridge has 25 ohms of resistance normal per schematic. What would this be a symptom of? Could this be my problem? My xenon has 3.3 vdc also.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Please reread post 3021. It looks like it will work as is although it looks like a hack. The Blu/grn wire looks like an add on since the original thin blue wire is MIA. They used whatever wire they had available. Plastic pf makes no difference. It's just an early game. What's the serial number on left side of cab?
Ultimately the blue wire from lamp driver J3 pin 11 is coming from the head and goes down to the pf wire harness. It has to be long enough to reach the lamp socket by the SEB. Apparently your was damaged a some point. Then another blue thin wire identical to the wire from J3 pin goes from the lamp socket and returns to the harness and goes to the SEB J1 pin 2. So there should be 2 thin blue wires at the lamp socket tab. A single blue wire at SEB pin 2. The thicker light blue wire is J1 pin a and goes to the base of the lamp socket at SEB. So, pin 1 is the supply voltage and the pin 2 is the switching/ground side of the socket. Take more pics if you find it. Also see if there is continuity between the J3 pin 11 and J1 pin2 SEB. If there is, the coils should work, if not some coils will not but you should be able to power up. If in doubt, you can unplug the 4 right connectors at the power supply, turn on game measure the test points at the power supply. If good, turn off power, reconnect the 4 connectors and power up again. If the game goes into attract mode. Test all coils.
From your pic, you need to find out were the other end of the wire with the blu-grn goes. Find out the original color. It looks black in your pic but could be dark blue?
To help you understand a little more, all of the switched lamps in the game have a supply voltage (buss) to the socket base. each socket is switched by the colored wire soldered to the tabs. In this case, the SEB lamp socket has to go back to the SEB and switch the relay. Look at the SEB schematic if you have it. It's page W-1251 b in the manual.
My bad, thanks for the post.
I followed (traced) the black/green wire (the loose one in the picture) and found it goes to J1 pin 11 on Auxiliary Lamp Driver. So my original post was/is incorrect.
Quoted from meSz:My bad, thanks for the post.
I followed (traced) the black/green wire (the loose one in the picture) and found it goes to J1 pin 11 on Auxiliary Lamp Driver. So my original post was/is incorrect.
Ok no worries. I'll take a look at the schematics tonight after work. I work until after mid midnight though.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Ok no worries. I'll take a look at the schematics tonight after work. I work until after mid midnight though.
Okay appreciate it! Also I did trace "the blue wire from lamp driver J3 pin 11 is coming from the head and goes down to the pf wire harness" to J1 Pin 2 on the Solenoid Expander Board (SEB).
Quoted from DocGar:Great Plains is out of the 12 conductor molex connector I need. Anybody found an alternate supplier (preferably one that specifically caters to the needs of pinheads) ??
.100 or .156? You acn cut a longer one down to a 12 position if needed.
Quoted from DocGar:Great Plains is out of the 12 conductor molex connector I need. Anybody found an alternate supplier (preferably one that specifically caters to the needs of pinheads) ??
If you're looking for .156 Pinball Life has lots in stock, include 12 pin.
https://www.pinballlife.com/molex-crimp-stuff-connectors-and-parts.html
Quoted from DocGar:Great Plains is out of the 12 conductor molex connector I need. Anybody found an alternate supplier (preferably one that specifically caters to the needs of pinheads) ??
I may have one you need for local pickup
Specifically, I'm looking for one each of these guys (0.093"). Unfortunately, Pinball Life only carries one side of the pair (the receptacle I believe). I got a pretty deep "misc box" of bits and pieces but of course no 12-connector molex... Other non-pin sources you guys may use? Ronnie ! Good to see that I'm not the only pin obsessed guy in town.
12 pin connector (resized).jpg12 pin receptacle (resized).jpgQuoted from DocGar:Specifically, I'm looking for one each of these guys (0.093"). Unfortunately, Pinball Life only carries one side of the pair (the receptacle I believe). I got a pretty deep "misc box" of bits and pieces but of course no 12-connector molex... Other non-pin sources you guys may use? Ronnie ! Good to see that I'm not the only pin obsessed guy in town.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Ahh crap, dont have any of those. Yeah, nice to see others around here who are into pins
Quoted from DocGar:Specifically, I'm looking for one each of these guys (0.093"). Unfortunately, Pinball Life only carries one side of the pair (the receptacle I believe). I got a pretty deep "misc box" of bits and pieces but of course no 12-connector molex... Other non-pin sources you guys may use? Ronnie ! Good to see that I'm not the only pin obsessed guy in town.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I don't recall any .093 connectors on the 81 version ebd. which version do you have? I may have both. 093 and 062 12 position sockets. I'll let you know.
Quoted from Ronnie1114:Ahh crap, dont have any of those. Yeah, nice to see others around here who are into pins
Going on 12 years in the hobby. Love it.
Quoted from Lovef2k:I don't recall any .093 connectors on the 81 version ebd. which version do you have? I may have both. 093 and 062 12 position sockets. I'll let you know.
I have an '84 and there aren't any native molex connectors. I've just about finished putting them on most of the other mechs so as to more simply (for me anyway) transfer them from the old board to the new. May make repairs/tune-ups a bit easier in the future being able to do things on the bench. I need a 12 pin for the signal lines (10) on the in-line drop target. Then all the big mechs will be off the board...
If anyone wants to follow a hardtop install and interior cabinet resto on my 1984 Classic EBD, I started a new thread here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hardtop-install-and-restoration-for-eight-ball-deluxe
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex/0003091126/WM1337-ND/61336
Digi-key stocks these, as does Mouser.
I don't know if these are the right plugs for anything on a Bally game, but if someone added one, you might need it.
Quoted from jj44114:looks like the header joints were reflowed.
Turns out it was the bridge rectifier. TP1 was 3.8 vdc vs 6.5 vdc. Start at the power supply and work your way out. Could have saved some time. Thanks everyone for the input
Quoted from vec-tor:Did you put the game in lamp test and listen the the
solenoid expander relay. You should here a clean "click"
If your here "chattering" Then the lamp bridge is going bad.
You called it, Br1 was bad thanks
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
