I wonder if a non ghosting bulb would help?

That explanation was written with the assumption that resistors are already on the lamp circuits since phillyfan64 is using Alltek lamp boards.

As you're probably aware adding resistors is about increasing current flow through the lamp driver board SCRs to help them "latch on" since LEDs draw much less current than incandescents. SCRs have a spec called the "holding current" which is the current flow required for the SCR to latch and stay on when activated. If the holding current spec isn't met when the SCR is being activated then the SCR will not stay on.

Below is a scope image of the rippling feature lamp DC voltage I was previously mentioning. This is essentially on a colored wire at a feature lamp socket when all feature lamps are off. The voltage starts at zero volts and on this machine rises to nearly 10 volts then drops back down to zero and repeat.

IMG_0019a (resized).jpg

The below scope image shows when the MPU board activates a SCR to illuminate a lamp (incandescent in this case) - you can see it happens when the feature lamp voltage reached about 4 volts.
4 volts across a pinball LED make it difficult for the SCRs to latch on as the current flowing may be borderline.

IMG_0017a (resized).jpg

The exact time which the MPU board refreshes and activates lamp SCRs is sometimes delayed when the CPU is busy taking care of refreshing the displays. When this delay occurs, the SCRs have a better chance of latching on since the feature lamp voltage has had a little more time to rise resulting in more current flow.

You could try adding a low value resistor, say 470 or 220 ohms and see what happens, I imagine it won't help in this case though (since we're already talking about Alltek lamp driver boards being in use) but any feedback otherwise is welcome.

Never tried them but Comet states the following on their web site regarding their Flux LEDs - not sure why unless I'm missing something:

"Note: this bulb will not function properly with an Alltek lamp driver board."

Alright so it's not the solenoid driver board just installed a brand new one.. Any thoughts?

Maybe a connection issue. I will dig through the schematics after work. I work after midnight est.

Thanks man I appreciate it..

Also, the lamp memory is done by the 5101 ram chip.
If you have funky lamp problems, the 5101 ram chip is probably degrading.

If memory serves, you should be able to take a jumper wire from the cabinet ground braid to the non-banded diode side of a coil lug and it should engage(fire). It seems like you have a connection problem somewhere. If the coils fire that means the ground side of the circuit is open. If no fire, measure the voltage on the banded side of the diode on those coil lugs. You should get close to 43 volts. If no voltage present on the inline target bank and/or the saucer eject coils, you need to confirm continuity on the grey/red wire at the coils to the SEB J1 pin 7. If there is continuity from the coils to SEB J1 pin7 and there is voltage present at the coils, you would have to think the SEB relay is bad. But since the the outhole coil is on the same line I think it's still working, unless there is an internal connection problem. The common denominator of the 3 coils not working is the hot side of the circuit that comes off of the playfield fuse 1 amp slow blow by the flippers. Check that connection for any broken wires or bad solder joints.

If the pop bumper coil fired when jumped, check connector on sol driver J2 pin 4 orange/green wire. Place a small pin in the connector housing to make contact for the meter probe and from there to the coil lug. If open, you need to find the break in the connection. If connection good, check switch operation in self test switch test, 5th press of red button. While you're at it, check continuity from sol driver J5 pin 10 black/white wire to the saucer and J5 pin 11 orange/black wire to the inline reset coil.

This should get you started for now, hopefully you will find the problem.

Thanks all switches work in test mode but the three coils DON’T work. I checked the small fuse under under playfield and that is good too. Now I need to check the continuity between coils and driverboard

In your original post you said the 3 coils didn't fire in test mode.
This changes things. If the coils are firing in order in test mode I'm pretty much out of ideas. Did you verify the dip switches on the Alltek for EDB?

When you did the switch test, did you get the flashing 0 in the match/ball display?

I just got the orginal MPU back from a repair tech, so I pulled the Alltek board and put the orginal board back in it.. yeah I miss spoke switches all work it test mode but those three coils DON’T work.

Hmmm. Ok, in switch test, do you get a 0 when all of the drop targets are reset and the ball removed from outhole? This is important because a stuck or shorted switch can confuse the MPU.

I just looked at the schematic for the coils again. I made a mistake, it was the brown/black wire that feeds the saucer, inline target reset and the outhole coils. That's pin 5 on the SEB. Not the grey/red wire pin 7. But then again your outhole coil is working so suspect the SEB is working as it should.

Did you try to jump the coils as I described earlier?

brown/orange not brown/black for pin 5 SEB man I need better glasses!

Coils are all measuring 43-45volts. Can’t seem to get them to fire when I ground the coil though..

During switch test the zero goes away like normal when I activate the switch.

Just guessing here. New Alltek driver board installed correctly? Mounting screws in the correct locations? Bottom left and top right only? Screws in any other corner can cause shorts and all sorts of issues. MPU has only 1 mounting screw for that board on the bottom left. The rest should be plastic standoffs.

Yes, installed correctly doesn’t work for orginal board or alltek. Thanks! Probably a connector issue but I am trying to figure out which connector is the problem.

If you have one connector with issues, re-pin all. Will save you hassles down the road. Both male & female sides.

I just looked at your coils against one of my EBD pf's. The Saucer and inline reset are wired correctly. If you are getting voltage on these 2 coils( lugs with brown/orange wire are the power side) Then jump the lug with the orange/black wire inline reset coil to ground and it should fire. Same for saucer, ground the black/white wire to ground and it should fire.

The pop bumper coil is mounted upside down but I don't think it affects anything. Test fire the coil, ground the lug with the orange/green wire to ground.

Swapping the slingshots over to the new board and taking the opportunity to give them a quick clean and tune. Never knew that the coil stops were different from those in the flips. Pinball Life has this stop listed (a-613-67) and it *looks* about the right size. They don't spec the size however. Anybody know if this is right one?

A-163-67_300x252 (resized).jpg

OEM ac voltage flipper coil stop EM pinball games...
Part number stayed for dc voltage SS pinball games...
A-613-115 corrected part number for dc coil stop. ASE-1587-11X flippers.
A-613-127 heavy duty dc coil stop for flippers (10-32 screws)
As pictured... that is a A-613-115 dc linear sling shot kicker coil stop.
and is also used in early Bally linear flipper assembly as well.
Finally, it is used with the early flipper assemblies post EM period.
If it is a solid stop plug---= DC coils...
If it is a copper filled stop plug---= AC coils...
Note: Copper filled plug stops can work on AC coils and DC coils.
------ That is why the part #A-613-67 is listed in Bally's parts catalogs for many years.
------ #A-613-67 is an AC coil stop.
------ It is why Pinball Resource made the #A-613-67+ coil stop part.
------ The coil stop is designed for AC and DC coils.

Tnx V.. That's more than I thought anyone knew about the coil stop. So, unless I've just missed it, the "613-67" as listed and imaged should work for the slingshots. Thanks again..

Mapping out the first mech move here. Looking at the slingshots and noticed there are no guidance dimples for placement of the screws. How are you guys ensuring correct placement. I've got a ton of pics but I'm thinking that its not quite enough to ballpark the placement similar to old pf pics. Tracing paper indexing the mounting holes off of the routed slot? Pull out the calipers?

yes,yes,yes... Copy old playfield with tape and punch marks... just like the "old master painters"
Transfer to new playfield... Just tap pin markings... test fit assembly... adjust....
When satisfied, make a permanent markings...
slowly fasten mechanisms...
adjust,adjust,adjust, till satisfied with position.

Tnx V. I'm seeing the path! I like the tape & punch idea. Will do...

The lamp under the Special Saucer insert stays on all the time. The transistor, Q24, tests the same as all other transistors, as does R33 and U5 pin 2. Is there anything else to check before replacing Q24? Brand new socket.

Hello all... I joined the club few months ago when I bought a project machine. It was in my garage since then... Let's say it will require "a lot" of work before I can play.

My "bringing back to life" thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bringing-back-to-life-an-eight-ball-deluxe

Pic02 (resized).jpg

God Bless you, EBD brother, you've got your work cut out for you.

Nah, that's not a project. Little Novus 1-2-3 and a couple fuses and your good to go..

I think you want to replace some of the rubber too.

Oh man that's rough! Wow! Let me know if you need and pictures or anything down the road.

yeah.... I think you're right, they're a bit loose around the flippers

IMG_20200119_153354 (resized).jpg

I just checked the fuses on the transformer board and they're all good... yeah, I'm off a good start

As Monty Python would say about that cabinet, "It's just a flesh wound".

That will buff right out..

I replaced the Q24 transistor, no change. Is there a way to test the MC14028B decoder chip?

Thanks,

Alan

The lamp is on even when *all* other controlled lamps are off, correct?
My old Bally repair manual basically says - if the lamp still stays stuck on after transistor swap, replace the decoder chip.

Pin 2 of the 4028 at U5 activates the Q24 SCR. Measure the voltage at pin 2. Compare it to the other 4028 pin output voltages of lamps being switched on and others left off.

Attaching molex connectors to the power leads on the big mechs prior to pulling them from the board. On finishing up the inline drop target connector saw that several of the small gauge wires to lamps under the mech are frayed down to bare wire. How are you guys tackling this ? Splice ? Tape ? Plasti-dip ? Other ?

frayed lamp leads (resized).jpg

I would carefully unsolder each wire and slip a piece of
heat shrink tubing through each wire.
Then reconstruct the wire harness and do sum
careful dressing of the harness away from the edge.
Or, what it is the harness is getting caught on...

Are those diodes soldered to your sockets? And why?

Heat shrink ! Didn't think of that. Yep, many (?most, I haven't really surveyed the entire board) of the lamp sockets have small signal diodes. No idea why...

Probably the only style left available at the time.
WICO would have the latest NOS.... so if available...

Starting to pre-game the pop bumper pulls. Was contemplating molexing the solenoid power leads or maybe the power + signal lines but looked like I'd have to seriously jockey the harness to get enough slack on some of those lines. Wondering if I can leave the harness attached and remove the bumpers *in toto* and seal them individually in plastic bags. Seems cumbersome but no need to remove/replace/molex the various leads. Bad idea?

If a solenoid pulls in when you turn the game on,
it is usually a bad SE9302.

Result: found a wiring screw up underneath large wire bundle. Repaired, all lamps work great.

Thanks for the help.

First post here, just picked up an ebd and after a bumpy ride home everything works except the trough outhole kicker is extremely weak, the ball barely moves. Switch is gapped correctly and no sign of corrosion. Tried reseating connector to no avail. Could this be a diode issue or should i be looking closer at the sdb

Thanks in advance, Chris

Congrats on joining the EBD club! It's my favorite machine from my youth and I'll be installing a nice, new hardtop on mine later this month.

If the outhole kicker is firing and just weak, a few things to check:

- Make sure the plunger on the coil moves freely and doesn't bind. A new coil sleeve and/or new plunger assembly may help if there's binding or slop in the linkage.
- Make sure the coil itself is the correct one (AT-26-1200)
- Make sure the kicker assembly is fully secured to the playfield and that there is no slop. Any assembly movement as a result of the coil firing will weaken the ball moving out.
- Make sure you're getting the correct voltage at the kicker coil.

One problem that I ran into on my EBD regarding week kickouts to the shooter lane:

- the piece of nylon on the post (left arrow) was really, really loose. As such, the kicker arm had slop/play and the ball would sometimes mis-hit. I took the nylon off, wrapped some electrical tape around the post, and put the nylon piece back on nice and tight.

- the ball would rest to the left of the trough, toward the playfield, and the kicker arm would not be "square" with the ball (and again would cause mis-hits on occasion). Resolved that by bending the rollover wire for the switch, under the ball, so that the ball no longer "leaned" toward the playfield. Right arrow shows it sitting squarely after bending the rollover wire straight.

Kicker (resized).jpg

Did you make sure the arm is moving freely? Make sure it's not binding from a bad or dirty coil sleeve.

If all other coils are working as they should , I wouldn't suspect the SEB. Check to see if the correct coil is installed there. It should have 3 lugs like a flipper coil. IIRC it's a AR 2600 or AT 2600? Check manual if you have it.

Also check that the wires are fully soldered to the lugs. seen before where a strand or two was the only this soldered to the lugs.

Thanks for the reply’s. All solenoids fired in the test mode. No legible writing on coil. I have a new coil coming from Marcos. I’ll start there, more to follow

Chris