(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well

By Hellfire

8 years ago


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There are 4361 posts in this topic. You are on page 57 of 88.
#2801 1 year ago

Today's issue is with the Solenoid Expander board. I think I might have a bad relay, but I'd like to double check.

In attract mode with the 10-pin connector attached, pins 7 and 9 show 44VDC, and pin 5 shows 58VDC.

Power down, remove connector, power up and test voltage at connector pins. Pin 5 now shows 7VDC, pin 7 shows minus millivolts, and pin 9 shows 44VDC.

The SEB relay does give a single click at power up on the 5th flash along with the relay on the SDB. The SEB light under the playfield never comes on.

Replace relay?

Thanks,

Alan

#2802 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Today's issue is with the Solenoid Expander board. I think I might have a bad relay, but I'd like to double check.
In attract mode with the 10-pin connector attached, pins 7 and 9 show 44VDC, and pin 5 shows 58VDC.
Power down, remove connector, power up and test voltage at connector pins. Pin 5 now shows 7VDC, pin 7 shows minus millivolts, and pin 9 shows 44VDC.
The SEB relay does give a single click at power up on the 5th flash along with the relay on the SDB. The SEB light under the playfield never comes on.
Replace relay?
Thanks,
Alan

Well, first be sure that the SEB light bulb is not just burned out...

#2803 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, first be sure that the SEB light bulb is not just burned out...

No, it's good.

#2804 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

No, it's good.

The SEB should click in unison with the feature lamps when in burn in test. Go into coil test and see if all coils fire including drop target resets.

IIRC the SEB gets it's signal from the main lamp driver. Things I would check are the lamp driver scr, header pins of lamp driver board. Also header pins on seb board. Reflow if necessary.

#2805 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

My first swap on a CPR xenon with a manual staple gun didn't work for me. The wood is way harder that original playfields. Trust me you want a 22 gauge upholstery staple and air.

I had to do some, after transfer, repairs on a CPR Flash Gordon...
and I was shocked at how hard the wood is. I had to go back with a drill
to remount the rollover switches...
The guy used power tools, and jamb the switch stacks on the underside of the playfied
in crooked potions all over the place.

#2806 1 year ago

I don’t even do playfield swaps but this is well worth the money.

amazon.com link »

#2807 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Go into coil test and see if all coils fire including drop target resets.

All coils fire in the solenoid test except the four target bank reset and the coin door lockout coil. The relay on the SEB clicks when solenoids 16, 17 & 18 are tested. Solenoid 16 is the non-working 4-bank DT reset. Header pins have been reflowed on the SEB. Re-pin connector?

#2808 1 year ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I don’t even do playfield swaps but this is well worth the money.
amazon.com link »

That's the one I have. Also have the short nose version.

#2809 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

All coils fire in the solenoid test except the four target bank reset and the coin door lockout coil. The relay on the SEB clicks when solenoids 16, 17 & 18 are tested. Solenoid 16 is the non-working 4-bank DT reset. Header pins have been reflowed on the SEB. Re-pin connector?

If the saucer, out hole and the 1-9 and the 2-10 memory coils fire then it seems the SEB is working. So yeah might be connector issue. Also check the header pins on the lamp driver board. Press on the connectors while in coil test and look for any changes.

#2810 1 year ago

Also is this a new problem or did you get the game this way? Could have incorrect coils installed on those target banks. All coils controlled by the SEB should have 3 lugs and 2 diodes each.

#2811 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

My first swap on a CPR xenon with a manual staple gun didn't work for me. The wood is way harder that original playfields. Trust me you want a 22 gauge upholstery staple and air.

All I can find are 1/4" crown staplers and I seem to recall the staples being somewhat wider than that. Which stapler are you using?

#2812 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Also check the header pins on the lamp driver board.

Will do.

Quoted from Lovef2k:

Also is this a new problem or did you get the game this way?

Got it with the head removed, did the pf swap without putting it together to see if it worked. Will know better next time.

All coils and relays are original.

#2813 1 year ago
Quoted from DocGar:

All I can find are 1/4" crown staplers and I seem to recall the staples being somewhat wider than that. Which stapler are you using?

It's a 22 gauge upholstery air stapler. It uses 10 mm wide staples. Unicatch makes a good one.

#2814 1 year ago
Quoted from DocGar:All I can find are 1/4" crown staplers and I seem to recall the staples being somewhat wider than that. Which stapler are you using?
Quoted from Lovef2k:

It's a 22 gauge upholstery air stapler. It uses 10 mm wide staples. Unicatch makes a good one.

Even if you only do one pf swap the Unicatch is worth the purchase. Makes laying down the braid a simple task. Also, if you're going to add/redo all the "Tech" sheets (pic below) in the back box the Unicatch is great for this as well.

PICT0831 (resized).JPG
#2815 1 year ago
Quoted from meSz:

Even if you only do one pf swap the Unicatch is worth the purchase. Makes laying down the braid a simple task. Also, if you're going to add/redo all the "Tech" sheets (pic below) in the back box the Unicatch is great for this as well.

meSz - your backbox restoration is BEAUTIFUL and I love the Bally logo you put above the MPU. Makes me wish I took the time to repaint the back of my door as well (I repainted only the front). When I did my backbox cards, I went with an off-white to give it an aged look, albeit cleaner and crisper than the torn, ratty originals in mine.

IMG_7591 (resized).jpg
#2816 1 year ago
Quoted from meSz:

Even if you only do one pf swap the Unicatch is worth the purchase. Makes laying down the braid a simple task. Also, if you're going to add/redo all the "Tech" sheets (pic below) in the back box the Unicatch is great for this as well.[quoted image]

Cleanest back box I've ever seen. Nicely done! I'm sold on the Unicatch. Picking one up at the local Walmart.

#2817 1 year ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Cleanest back box I've ever seen. Nicely done! I'm sold on the Unicatch. Picking one up at the local Walmart.

Good deal. Make sure to take a practice run on some scrap plywood. Lowest pressure possible so not to break the wire or bury the staple too deep. Make sure the compressor keeps constant pressure reading.

#2818 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Also check the header pins on the lamp driver board.

Update. Re-flowed header pins on Lamp Driver board, checked other connectors, no change. Still neither the 4 bank drop target and coin lockout coils fire.

I did notice that when checking voltage at the drop target reset coils, the 7 bank's coils read 43VDC at both the gray/red wires on the center lugs, but the black/white wires read 57VDC at both side lugs. Both the orange/black and brown/orange wires on the 4 bank DT read 57VDC. All three coils read about 22 ohms. The under playfield lamp does light in feature lamp test and during solenoid test.

#2819 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Update. Re-flowed header pins on Lamp Driver board, checked other connectors, no change. Still neither the 4 bank drop target and coin lockout coils fire.
I did notice that when checking voltage at the drop target reset coils, the 7 bank's coils read 43VDC at both the gray/red wires on the center lugs, but the black/white wires read 57VDC at both side lugs. Both the orange/black and brown/orange wires on the 4 bank DT read 57VDC. All three coils read about 22 ohms. The under playfield lamp does light in feature lamp test and during solenoid test.

Do you have another game that you can temporarily swap solenoid drivers for testing? Maybe you have bad drivers on that board.

#2820 1 year ago

The coin lock out is a constant coil meaning it stays on until told to turn off. In sol test it will just buzz for a second or two.

#2821 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Do you have another game that you can temporarily swap solenoid drivers for testing? Maybe you have bad drivers on that board.

I have had the 1N4004 diode go bad on the solenoid driver board.
Especially the diode for the flipper enable relay.

#2822 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Do you have another game that you can temporarily swap solenoid drivers for testing?

Don't have another game but I have another board.

Hold my beer.

#2823 1 year ago

Installed a known good board. No changde.

#2824 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Installed a known good board. No changde.

So now you know the issue is either in the pf or your connectors. Check the 9 pin connector for the horseshoe target bank. Check header pins on SEB.

Make sure all coils wired properly.

#2825 1 year ago

Can someone share info on the paint original cabinet color names or codes. Thanks in advance.

#2826 1 year ago
Quoted from Jimmyd044:

Can someone share info on the paint original cabinet color names or codes. Thanks in advance.

The colors to the OEM cabinet are on the warm side.
a warm, off white, cream is the base color.
A rustic gold is another. ( like yellow ochre )
Finally a black color.

#2827 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Check header pins on SEB.

Header pins on SEB were re-flowed. Searching the playfield now.

I'm probably wrong, but am I missing a wire in the SEB connector? Here's what I have:

Pin 1. Blue wire
Pin 2. Blue wire - 22 gauge
Pin 3. Black wire
Pin 4. no wire
Pin 5. Brown/Orange wire
Pin 6. Key
Pin 7. Gray/Red wire
Pin 8. no wire
Pin 9. Yellow wire
Pin 10. no wire

According to my schematic, I think that there should be a wire at pin 4. Can't find a loose wire nearby, what do you all think?

#2828 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Header pins on SEB were re-flowed. Searching the playfield now.
I'm probably wrong, but am I missing a wire in the SEB connector? Here's what I have:
Pin 1. Blue wire
Pin 2. Blue wire - 22 gauge
Pin 3. Black wire
Pin 4. no wire
Pin 5. Brown/Orange wire
Pin 6. Key
Pin 7. Gray/Red wire
Pin 8. no wire
Pin 9. Yellow wire
Pin 10. no wire
According to my schematic, I think that there should be a wire at pin 4. Can't find a loose wire nearby, what do you all think?

pin 9 yellow +43 volts dc.
should have a wire jumper on the solenoid expander to
pin 4.
pin 4 should read +43 volts dc.

#2829 1 year ago

If you ground pin 2 the relay should be energized.
then you can voltage check the main wire +43 volt
[67] brown-orange wire to
1) outhole kicker
2) saucer eject
3) 4 bank d/t
if you have voltage to all three coils...
you could temp ground the anode to each coil
to test if the coil is good/bad...
if coil does not energize then you have something wrong
with the coil...
if the coil fires then you know the coil is good and your
main voltage to the coil is good.
--------------------------------------------------
4) test the return wires to each coil...
--- a) [80] A3J5-12 should have continuity to
------ 1,9 D/T & outhole kicker
--- b) [78] A3J5-11 should have continuity to
----- 2,10 D/T & 4 bank inline
--- c) [85] A3J5-10 should have continuity to
----- 7 bank rest & eject saucer

#2830 1 year ago

Found it!!!

When comparing the 4-bank DT wiring to the saucer and outhole kicker wiring I realized that a previous "tech" has wired the 4 bank backwards. The game plays OK without these four targets up, you just don't get the points and whatever. I'd found some other strange wiring hacks but it didn't occur to me that the 4 bank was wired backwards. The guy that sold me the machine told me it didn't work 100% but he enjoyed it anyway.

Well, now to strip the pf, remove this crap overlay, install the hardtop and have it ready to sell at Pinbrew in August.

Thanks so much to vec-tor and Lovef2k for your help,

Alan

#2831 1 year ago

I have for sale the original set of 101 light sockets removed from an EIGHT BALL DELUXE playfield (Regular Version): https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/77246
Thanks for looking

Robert

IMG_5677 (resized).JPG
#2832 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy1:

I have for sale the original set of 101 light sockets removed from an EIGHT BALL DELUXE playfield (Regular Version): https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/77246
Thanks for looking
Robert[quoted image]

You staying firm on your $100 plus back box lamp boards?

#2833 1 year ago
Quoted from lordloss:

You staying firm on your $100 plus back box lamp boards?

The backbox front panel for EIGHT BALL DELUXE was sold on Ebay: ebay.com link: itm

#2834 1 year ago

Issue with the credit indicator bulb. I had an LED in there. Tried 2 of them. Every few games it shuts off despite have plenty of credits. Socket was cracked and I replaced it with another 555 socket. Same issue. I just want to double check the wiring. The yellow and white wire on the right is correct. The braided power wire on the left is correct. But I’m not sure why there are 2 green wires on the left also. I just resoldered it exactly how it was but I don’t see 2 green wires going to it on the schematic. I switched to a regular incandescent bulb and it’s flickering quite a bit.

It’s the socket on the right in this picture, not the SEB bulb on the left.

Edit looking at this photo I see that the braided wire under the green wire is a little frayed. Maybe that’s the issue?

1A7AB6C8-282A-48CC-BB8A-40EB32C3C7D1 (resized).jpeg
#2835 1 year ago

The wiring looks correct. The 2 bluish green wires are the supply voltage for the switched lamp circuit. since they are wired in parallel the second wire is completing the circuit. Also the short bare wire is doing the same for the SEB lamp.

I would trace the small wire on that credit indicator lamp back to the connector at the lamp driver. Inspect the connector and header pin. Replace bulb. Could be a flaky led?

#2836 1 year ago

Thanks I’ll check that out and report back. I could not even get another led in the replacement socket. Comet leds are just too tight. That’s why I went with the incandescent for now.

#2837 1 year ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

looking at this photo I see that the braided wire under the green wire is a little frayed. Maybe that’s the issue?

1) not green ---blue...color change to age.
2) primary voltage +6.3 voltage is on the stapled lamp socket.
3) every thing in the photo looks O.K.
4) check yellow-white wire connector in the backbox.

#2838 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

1) not green ---blue...color change to age.

Yeah I know. Just trying to be specific for his situation.

#2839 1 year ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Thanks I’ll check that out and report back. I could not even get another led in the replacement socket. Comet leds are just too tight. That’s why I went with the incandescent for now.

I can't stand using 555 LEDs with Bally sockets. When I did my first end swap I kept the 555 sockets and used leds. My fingers were sore after installing them. Not only are they tight but the connection is weak which results in flaky lighting.

By the second and third ebd swaps I changed to bayonet sockets. I do keep the 555 gi sockets to keep the top side of the pf looking original. warm white retro from cointaker look good.

#2840 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

1) not green ---blue...color change to age.
2) primary voltage +6.3 voltage is on the stapled lamp socket.
3) every thing in the photo looks O.K.
4) check yellow-white wire connector in the backbox.

It still has the original IDC connector. I took the cover off and it really doesn’t look bad at all but I should probably repinn it. I’ve noticed that the flickering is really only when the game is in attract mode. Maybe I did have a flakey LED in there. During game play the light is much more stable. I’ve also noticed some very slight strobing of LEDs that are going up both ramps above the playfield. This is despite having both lamp driver boards replaced with Allteks. The jumper wires are installed.

Quoted from Lovef2k:

I can't stand using 555 LEDs with Bally sockets. When I did my first end swap I kept the 555 sockets and used leds. My fingers were sore after installing them. Not only are they tight but the connection is weak which results in flaky lighting.
By the second and third ebd swaps I changed to bayonet sockets. I do keep the 555 gi sockets to keep the top side of the pf looking original. warm white retro from cointaker look good.

Tell me about it. I’ve complained to Comet about this. Their bulbs are just way too tight. I just bought a set of used 555 sockets off eBay mainly to replace a bunch of cracked GI sockets. They cracked trying to put LEDs in them. I wanted to keep the GI sockets original. I’m going to try some retros for the GI. I currently use frosted. They’re nice but I do miss the look of the incandescents.

#2841 1 year ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Tell me about it. I’ve complained to Comet about this. Their bulbs are just way too tight

I had great success using wire snippers to shave off just a touch of the plastic on each side (at an angle) with Comet retros in the GI for mine. I kept the original white plastic sockets, and it was a nightmare to try and squeeze them in before doing that... after my modification they all slipped in super easily and the end result was very much worth it!

#2842 1 year ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

I had great success using wire snippers to shave off just a touch of the plastic on each side (at an angle) with Comet retros in the GI for mine. I kept the original white plastic sockets, and it was a nightmare to try and squeeze them in before doing that... after my modification they all slipped in super easily and the end result was very much worth it!

I’ve tried sanding the sides with no luck. Maybe I didn’t sand enough off. Thanks for the tip.

#2843 1 year ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I’ve tried sanding the sides with no luck. Maybe I didn’t sand enough off. Thanks for the tip.

Yeah I shaved a fair amount off to fit well, I can see it taking forever to do that manually with sandpaper!

I did end up ruining a couple leds by cutting TOO close to the metal, but the trade off is I did like 30 of them in an hour and will hopefully not have to replace them for a long time.

You know what sucked a lot worse than putting the bulbs in? Switching over to the new plastics. NEVER AGAIN!

#2844 1 year ago

I used a 10mm nut driver to press Comet 555 LEDs into sockets. Didn't break a one.

#2845 1 year ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Yeah I shaved a fair amount off to fit well, I can see it taking forever to do that manually with sandpaper!
I did end up ruining a couple leds by cutting TOO close to the metal, but the trade off is I did like 30 of them in an hour and will hopefully not have to replace them for a long time.
You know what sucked a lot worse than putting the bulbs in? Switching over to the new plastics. NEVER AGAIN!

Are you cutting just the corners or the whole length of each side?

Quoted from Alan_L:

I used a 10mm nut driver to press Comet 555 LEDs into sockets. Didn't break a one.

I’m going to try this for sure.

#2846 1 year ago

Working on an Eightball deluxe. Trying to resolve a few issues. I have three coils not working right now. I bought a new driverboard, new MPU, and new power supply.
First-solnoid # 6 lower pop bumper doesn’t work. During test modes switch works and coil doesn’t
Second- solenoid # 17 saucer hole at top doesn’t work. During switch test modes switch works and coil doesn’t
Third- solenoid # 16 left inline drops targets don’t work. During test modes switches work but coil doesn’t.
I replaced two coils with new coils and adjusted all switches.
Any thoughts on this one guys? Which connector controls these coils on Driverboard and MPU. Pop bumpers have continuity. 16&17 have continuity too. Short? All switch works in test mode.. Short??

#2847 1 year ago

Does the wiring look correct on these coils?

7F10464E-9132-4A71-9D9F-C3972E59FE97 (resized).jpegA09214F4-FE1F-4ADA-B1BA-EDCE562695C3 (resized).jpegBCAEE200-9410-45D2-816F-23B932CD7A11 (resized).jpeg
#2848 1 year ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Does the wiring look correct on these coils?[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Does your solenoid expander board click when going into self test 1 push of red button on coin door? The saucer and inline reset are controlled by the expander board. The pop bumper is a separate issue.

#2849 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Does your solenoid expander board click when going into self test 1 push of red button on coin door? The saucer and inline reset are controlled by the expander board. The pop bumper is a separate issue.

I think it's Ground Hog's Day all over again.

#2850 1 year ago

Are the red inserts over the outlanes and the yellow arrows at the top of the playfield part of Attract Mode? Mine stay off.

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