(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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#2751 52 days ago
Quoted from slicknick13:

So I grabbed this freebie the other day. It's missing a lot and has a cut harness, but the only spare parts I'm missing are a slingshot and the 7 bank drop target. I have enough bally scrap wire around to make the rest of the harness and I'll just make a molex splice.
I think I can make a game out of it on the cheap. One of those no-rush, grab the parts when I can deals. I'll make a thread when I get more stuff.
At the very least, I can drop it into my Kings of Steel cab until I can get the transformer and cabinet squared away.
[quoted image][quoted image]

You guys in PA have no idea how good you have it....
An EBD for free? Seriously?

Well, at least our liquor stores are open here in Oregon.

#2752 52 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

OEM is a wood screw mini post. It gets hit a lot! Bad design on Bally's behalf.
You need to decide on what to do... Test fit your plastics in that area...
Mark area with what post to use.
1) mini post with 7/16" od rubber ring 8/32 screw base breaks ( Xenon )
---- new design 10/32 screw base. OR
2) metal post with 3/16" id rubber ring ( Centaur style ) 0360-00733-00XF
upside:
---- covers more area and helps keep the plastic rail tips from breaking...
---- use a drill and drill metal post to take 8-32 machine screw.
If you use ether one above... you need to resolve the underside...
---- "T" has to be counter sunk into the wood.
The drop target assembly would fit over the "T" nut.
Note: use dry soap on threads as lubricant.
---- go slow with these process, you do not want to crack the wood/surface finish.
---- do top side first.... fit part into playfield.
---- underside would now have hole marking.
---- screw "T" base upside down--- mark parameter on wood.
---- carefully remove parts.
---- cut wood to fit "T" nut flush--- need to enlarge hole to fit
---- "neck" of "T" nut. ( use a drill bit...taped off depth ).
---- carefully install "T" nut ( check angles of the fitting prongs to the D/T assembly ).
---- if all clear, finish installing "T" and top post, use soap as wood lubricant.
---- tighten assembly. check D/T assembly on bottom side...
---- all clear and flush fitting, you are good to go.

Good point about the wood threaded mini post. Yes they can get beat up and bend causing the hole threads to loosen up. Good idea changing to the machine thread type. If the DT bank is in the way can I counter bore a hole under the pf and place a washer and a nut in there flush? It sounds like a lot of work and a little risky though.

#2753 52 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Good point about the wood threaded mini post. Yes they can get beat up and bend causing the hole threads to loosen up. Good idea changing to the machine thread type. If the DT bank is in the way can I counter bore a hole under the pf and place a washer and a nut in there flush? It sounds like a lot of work and a little risky though.

On my game, that post was broken off and the threaded part still in the playfield. I was thinking of doing a tnut and machined post, but saw the drop target bank mount was in the way. I may countersink a tnut and then use a machined screw and plastic post/rubber.

#2754 52 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Good point about the wood threaded mini post. Yes they can get beat up and bend causing the hole threads to loosen up. Good idea changing to the machine thread type. If the DT bank is in the way can I counter bore a hole under the pf and place a washer and a nut in there flush? It sounds like a lot of work and a little risky though.

The "T" nut technique works the best. It is solid once done.
The "T" nut profile is flatter than a regular nut; you don't lose a lot of wood material.

#2755 52 days ago

This is why I say to "resolve this parts first" and get it out of the way...

#2756 52 days ago

Back in the day, when this game was popular, I constantly saw
the hacked up mini posts on every EBD along with the broken
plastics to the inline drop targets.

#2757 52 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Back in the day, when this game was popular, I constantly saw
the hacked up mini posts on every EBD along with the broken
plastics to the inline drop targets.

Yep, mine has the same issue. I wanted to simply drill a hole all the way through and bolt it in from the bottom, but the drop target assembly blocks that idea.
I hadn't though about a t-nut though. If I pull the drop target bank out and put a t-nut there, will the target bank still sit flush enough on top of it? What post do you use instead of the wood one, and will it not extend outside of the t-nut?

#2758 52 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The "T" nut technique works the best. It is solid once done.
The "T" nut profile is flatter than a regular nut; you don't lose a lot of wood material.

Since my playfield is on the rotisserie I went ahead and did this mod/upgrade real quick. Literally a few minutes with the playfield fully accessible. Snapped a couple pics in case it's helpful to others.

IMG_20200406_131435291 (resized).jpgIMG_20200406_131820911 (resized).jpg
#2759 52 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Yep, mine has the same issue. I wanted to simply drill a hole all the way through and bolt it in from the bottom, but the drop target assembly blocks that idea.
I hadn't though about a t-nut though. If I pull the drop target bank out and put a t-nut there, will the target bank still sit flush enough on top of it? What post do you use instead of the wood one, and will it not extend outside of the t-nut?

You have to flush mount the "T"nut...
That requires prep-work to the bottom of the playfield.
The "T" nut is counter sunk into the playfield...
Then the inline D/T assembly should fit over it...

#2760 52 days ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

Since my playfield is on the rotisserie I went ahead and did this mod/upgrade real quick. Literally a few minutes with the playfield fully accessible. Snapped a couple pics in case it's helpful to others.[quoted image][quoted image]

I would make sure you are using a #10-32 threaded minipost...
#6-32 threaded minipost is to weak to handle the pounding
from the ball.

#2761 52 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I would make sure you are using a #10-32 threaded minipost...
#6-32 threaded minipost is to weak to handle the pounding
from the ball.

I did use a 6-32, but I'm going with this approach. Makes the shot tougher and should hold up.

IMG_20200406_133631794 (resized).jpg
#2762 52 days ago
Quoted from treborlicec:

I did use a 6-32, but I'm going with this approach. Makes the shot tougher and should hold up.[quoted image]

O.K. you are going for a full size post.

#2763 52 days ago

Nice work treborlicec ! How did you do the low-relief countersink? Vec-tor, are you saying that a 10-32 T-nut is needed there??

#2764 52 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Nice work treborlicec ! How did you do the low-relief countersink? Vec-tor, are you saying that a 10-32 T-nut is needed there??

If you are using a minipost that has the 10-32 thread then yes, you need a 10-32 threaded
"T"nut.
Counter sink is done by a cutting bore tool. You need to tape off the bit
so that you do not go through the wood on the playfield.
The tool looks like a three prong trident/fork.
You have to go slow... do a little at a time.
Use the base of the "T" nut perimeter for size of bore width.

#2765 52 days ago

My '81 EBD wasn't running before my pf swap, now the swap is done and I'm trying to get it back up and running.

When the ball rolls over the left or right inlane, it scores the points and the tone sounds but the right upper pop bumper fires when the right inlane is hit and the let upper pop bumper fires when the left inlane is hit. Bad or broken diode problem?

#2766 52 days ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

My '81 EBD wasn't running before my pf swap, now the swap is done and I'm trying to get it back up and running.
When the ball rolls over the left or right inlane, it scores the points and the tone sounds but the right upper pop bumper fires when the right inlane is hit and the let upper pop bumper fires when the left inlane is hit. Bad or broken diode problem?

Sounds maybe more like a coil addressing problem (wires). Run the sequential solenoid test and note the Solenoid Number displayed vs. which one actually fires. If the incorrect coil fire (or don't fire) consistently, something's not wired correctly or the wire is loose/broken. I'd suspect the latter if you haven't repinned any connectors.

#2767 51 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Yes that's the hole I was referring to. Bummer isn't it? Once I set the mini post where it should be, the flange of the mini post was barely touching the incorrect hole. When I did mine, I painted the inside of the hole black. I then filled the hole with UV setting clear epoxy. It didn't totally hide the hole but made it less apparent. Don't make the new hole until you are installing the plastics so you know exactly where to place the mini post.
I never had a cracking problem drilling the surface of CPR playfields. Softer clear coat I guess. First make a small dimple so that the drill bit doesn't walk. Use a diamond point drill bit. I use 3/32 bits for this size. You don't have to go very deep, maybe 2/3 through.

If you haven't replaced the lamp sockets yet, I would switch it over to bayonets if not too late. Not the GI, I mean the switched lamps. They are much easier to change and work much better with LED's if you are going that route.

#2768 51 days ago

Will give the bayonets a look. Thought long and hard on the LED's. I know some guys love 'em and thats good but for me the warm glow of the incandescent is just part of the 'pinball look'. Did you replace the ground braid with the swap? I'm wondering if I can't bring the old ground with the harness and retack it into place.

#2769 51 days ago

Working on an EBD plastic playfield. Anyone have experience with what to use for stripped holes? For wood pf the toothpick method works but wondering about plastic pf! Though about filling with Super glue or an epoxy then drill it???

#2770 51 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

Working on an EBD plastic playfield. Anyone have experience with what to use for stripped holes? For wood pf the toothpick method works but wondering about plastic pf! Though about filling with Super glue or an epoxy then drill it???

I would try UV setting epoxy if it were me. Fill hole a little at a time until flush. Then pre drill.

#2771 51 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

Will give the bayonets a look. Thought long and hard on the LED's. I know some guys love 'em and thats good but for me the warm glow of the incandescent is just part of the 'pinball look'. Did you replace the ground braid with the swap? I'm wondering if I can't bring the old ground with the harness and retack it into place.

It's not ground braid. It's actually supply wire that carries the hot side of the circuit. I always start with new wire. It's tough to lift it from old of without it breaking or fraying.

#2772 51 days ago

I keep forgetting that the machine is almost 40 yrs old! I've seen some replace the wire w/ 1/8" or 1/4" braid which sort of looks like overkill. That said, 1/8" tinned braid is inexpensive at Walmart (of all places).

#2773 51 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I keep forgetting that the machine is almost 40 yrs old! I've seen some replace the wire w/ 1/8" or 1/4" braid which sort of looks like overkill. That said, 1/8" tinned braid is inexpensive at Walmart (of all places).

I thought you were referring to the pf wire. Are referring to the cabinet braid?

#2774 51 days ago

I was referring to the pf wire. It is thin gauge and I could easily see that frayed/crimped/cut during a transplant. Was thinking about stapling in some 1/8" tinned braid unless there's a good reason to avoid..

#2775 51 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I was referring to the pf wire. It is thin gauge and I could easily see that frayed/crimped/cut during a transplant. Was thinking about stapling in some 1/8" tinned braid unless there's a good reason to avoid..

It would be hard to make the sharp bend with the wide braid. There's some really tight traces on there. I would just replace with original types. Much easier to handle. Don't use stainless steel wire it must be tinned copper.

#2776 51 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I would try UV setting epoxy if it were me. Fill hole a little at a time until flush. Then pre drill.

any specific brand?

#2777 51 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

any specific brand?

Try pinball Resource for it. Its 18 gauge 10 strands.

#2778 51 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Try pinball Resource for it. Its 18 gauge 10 strands.

You're helping too many at one time .... I was the epoxy question

#2779 51 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

any specific brand?

Sorry. Got mixed up. Can't remember right now. I'm sure you can find something on Google or Amazon. I think they use it for fly fishing to assemble lures. You want something thin that can be dropped in the hole or something that can go on a syringe.

#2780 51 days ago

just use Hillman 30lb picture hanging wire. Its the right guage and very cheap. Solders good too. Around 3 bucks for 25ft.

ebay.com link

#2781 51 days ago

TU jj4... !! PBR has it for 20 cents per foot less shipping. 25 ft has to be enough for a single pf, yes ?

#2782 51 days ago

25 feet will do 2 playfields. The PBR wire is ok, but it is a little thinner than the OEM Bally wire. If you use it, lower the pressure on your staple gun or you will sever the wire when you stable it. The Hillman wire is the exact guage of the OEM wire, and you can get it at most hardware, or big box stores. I buy it here for under $3.

#2783 50 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Sorry. Got mixed up. Can't remember right now. I'm sure you can find something on Google or Amazon. I think they use it for fly fishing to assemble lures. You want something thin that can be dropped in the hole or something that can go on a syringe.

No apologies needed, just being goofy! Thanks for the info!

#2784 50 days ago
Quoted from jj44114:

just use Hillman 30lb picture hanging wire. Its the right guage and very cheap. Solders good too. Around 3 bucks for 25ft.
ebay.com link

There is a reason it is so cheap. It’s steel not copper.

Steel has about 10% of the conductivity of copper.

#2785 50 days ago

I don't think the OEM wire was copper either.

#2786 50 days ago

One of the side effects of correcting the EOS wiring on my machine seems to be more random pop bumper firings with flipper activity. I know this is a common Bally issue because of how they wired their machines. My Mata Hari had the same issue. I may try adding caps to the cabinet flipper switches. That seemed to help quiet down Mata Hari quite a bit.

#2787 50 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

One of the side effects of correcting the EOS wiring on my machine seems to be more random pop bumper firings with flipper activity. I know this is a common Bally issue because of how they wired their machines. My Mata Hari had the same issue. I may try adding caps to the cabinet flipper switches. That seemed to help quiet down Mata Hari quite a bit.

Following...I have this same problem on my EBD every once in a while....perhaps once or twice in a game every few games, I get a random pop fire when activating a flipper.

#2788 50 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Following...I have this same problem on my EBD every once in a while....perhaps once or twice in a game every few games, I get a random pop fire when activating a flipper.

Noise in the game... It is a common problem with Bally
games. The software for fast action solenoids is very sensitive.
It just has to read close,close ( fire the solenoid ). It decides later
if the reading was valid or not, and if valid award scoring points...
if not, then ignores and rests.
I would check both cpu switch connectors and make sure you
have a good sound connections. ( make sure the pins are not crushed ).

#2789 50 days ago

My latest ebd restore had the phantom pop fire as well. This was after all new connectors and boards. So not a connection issue. I think the buyer fixed though. I think it was noise in the harness and some wires had to be separated.

My restored f2k has random phantom firing of the upper left sling. Quite annoying.

#2790 50 days ago

There are multiple threads in the forum on this issue. Bally ran the power lines and signal lines together in tight bundles. Separating the harness seems to be the most effective way to correct or at least improve the issue. Caps added to the cabinet flipper buttons helps but is not a complete fix.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pop-bumper-fires-with-flipper-activity/page/1

#2791 50 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

My latest ebd restore had the phantom pop fire as well. This was after all new connectors and boards. So not a connection issue. I think the buyer fixed though. I think it was noise in the harness and some wires had to be separated.
My restored f2k has random phantom firing of the upper left sling. Quite annoying.

Quoted from phillyfan64:

There are multiple threads in the forum on this issue. Bally ran the power lines and signal lines together in tight bundles. Separating the harness seems to be the most effective way to correct or at least improve the issue. Caps added to the cabinet flipper buttons helps but is not a complete fix.

For me it was Fireball II. The demon post between flippers would go off every now and then.

#2792 50 days ago

The DT Banks in this game take time to clean up n rebuild.

176710A0-C36C-4577-8894-B37EC6038222 (resized).jpeg
#2793 49 days ago
Quoted from meSz:

The DT Banks in this game take time to clean up n rebuild.

Wow...that looks sweet. I know what a pain that is!

#2794 49 days ago
Quoted from jj44114:

I don't think the OEM wire was copper either.

It was always tinned, stranded copper. Copper is the best cheap conductor, stranded takes the stress of the mechanics better than solid as well as keeping the wire flexible and the tinning made it easier to solder.

Fun facts: Silver is actually the best metal for conductivity but it will eventually tarnish. Gold is next in line. Used in space craft wiring and computer chip cores. Never tarnishes.

#2795 49 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Wow...that looks sweet. I know what a pain that is!

Rebuilding and replacing the diodes and caps on the 6 yellow stand up targets behind that bank is even worse.

#2796 49 days ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

When the ball rolls over the left or right inlane, it scores the points and the tone sounds but the right upper pop bumper fires when the right inlane is hit and the let upper pop bumper fires when the left inlane is hit. Bad or broken diode problem?

Found it. On the right inlane switch, the was one strand of wire touching the other switch lug. One the left inlane, the two switch lugs had been pushed together. Thanks for your help, Mathazar.

#2797 49 days ago

At this point, I'm thinking that this EBD swap will be my one and only (maybe everybody says this?). That said, I don't really want to invest in a compressor + air stapler. Anybody have experience/can recommend a lesser expensive manual stapler? Upholstery stapler perhaps? Any thoughts appreciated..

#2798 49 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

At this point, I'm thinking that this EBD swap will be my one and only (maybe everybody says this?). That said, I don't really want to invest in a compressor + air stapler. Anybody have experience/can recommend a lesser expensive manual stapler? Upholstery stapler perhaps? Any thoughts appreciated..

I've been perfectly happy with my manual Arrow staple gun (about $25) but granted I've not done an entire playfield swap with it. My usage so far has just been with securing down individual replaced wire and ground braids on the playfield and in the cabinet. Perhaps my tune would change if I find myself doing an entire playfield swap. It's hard enough for me as it is to do a hard top install, so I don't see that happening.

#2799 49 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I've been perfectly happy with my manual Arrow staple gun (about $25) but granted I've not done an entire playfield swap with it. My usage so far has just been with securing down individual replaced wire and ground braids on the playfield and in the cabinet. Perhaps my tune would change if I find myself doing an entire playfield swap. It's hard enough for me as it is to do a hard top install, so I don't see that happening.

Tnx for the recommendation. I've used those and can recall that the squeeze pressure was not inconsequential. I could see where a staple or two would be an easy feat but agree that trying to do 50-60 in a go would be a bite. Just discovered electric staplers and looks like $50-60 could acquire a decent one (probably even find other uses for it - isn't that the way it goes - on getting a new hammer everything looks like a nail). Tnx again!

#2800 49 days ago
Quoted from DocGar:

At this point, I'm thinking that this EBD swap will be my one and only (maybe everybody says this?). That said, I don't really want to invest in a compressor + air stapler. Anybody have experience/can recommend a lesser expensive manual stapler? Upholstery stapler perhaps? Any thoughts appreciated..

My first swap on a CPR xenon with a manual staple gun didn't work for me. The wood is way harder that original playfields. Trust me you want a 22 gauge upholstery staple and air.

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