(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well

By Hellfire

10 years ago


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There are 5,666 posts in this topic. You are on page 54 of 114.
#2651 4 years ago

Without me doing a whole slew of digging, what's the 'best' way to approach swapping these standoffs onto new plastics? Mine are all yellowed or broken, so I'm just going to buy a new set.

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#2652 4 years ago

I haven't done it myself (yet) but the method I keep seeing the most is softening the plastic with a heat gun to the point where you can remove/insert the bell shaped standoff. I want to see a video of that process before I try it, but haven't found one.

#2653 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Without me doing a whole slew of digging, what's the 'best' way to approach swapping these standoffs onto new plastics? Mine are all yellowed or broken, so I'm just going to buy a new set.[quoted image]

Heat the plastic... you should be able to peel off after the plastic is warm...( heat gun ).
Use a screw post hardware or similar size round metal object... and with metal pliers...
insert the hardware into the bell spacer and reshape the flaring.
Test fit the reshaped bell top to new plastic piece... Adjust as necessary...
Note: check prior listings for other pinsiders for other techniques used for this problem.

#2654 4 years ago

I'm rebuilding the R flipper prior to the pf swap and noticed that the EOS switch stack is more complicated than the L. Anyone know who is selling that particular stack?

#2655 4 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I'm rebuilding the R flipper prior to the pf swap and noticed that the EOS switch stack is more complicated than the L. Anyone know who is selling that particular stack?

Look closer. I’ll bet they left an older EOS switch on there because they didn’t have any short screws. It’s probably disconnected. That’s what someone did with mine. All the usual places will have it. Pinball Resource, Pinball Life, Marco.

Edit. Disregard. They did this only on my right side flipper. The left is totally different because of the 3rd flipper.

#2656 4 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I'm rebuilding the R flipper prior to the pf swap and noticed that the EOS switch stack is more complicated than the L. Anyone know who is selling that particular stack?

Are you sure it's not the left flipper? If the pf is facing downward then it would appear to be the right.

#2657 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Without me doing a whole slew of digging, what's the 'best' way to approach swapping these standoffs onto new plastics? Mine are all yellowed or broken, so I'm just going to buy a new set.[quoted image]

My method of choice is to use a cheapie soldering iron like this one with a fat tip on it

https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Iron-Kit-Temperature-Rarlight/dp/B07PDK3MX1/ref=sr_1_8

Place the tip on top of the stand-off and press until it gets hot and they pop right out. Let them fall on something like an old piece of plywood so the heat doesn't damage your table or floor, of course let them cool before you touch them.

#2658 4 years ago
Quoted from DocGar:

I'm rebuilding the R flipper prior to the pf swap and noticed that the EOS switch stack is more complicated than the L. Anyone know who is selling that particular stack?

For the left flipper you need 2 switches. Each stack together as one. If you staying with the linear type flippers, use these: inside switch closest to the flipper pawl, normal closed switch is ASW-A20-34 and the outer switch that is normally open that powers the upper flipper is ASW-A10-45. Both can be found on Marcospec. You can also use this switch that has both switches as one unit, Midway part number: #A365-00046-0000. Marco also has that. Many people complain that there is a lag on the upper flipper due to the outer switch's delay. This can be eliminated by bypassing the secondary switch and connecting the 2 wires together. This can be done because the upper flipper has it's own EOS.

The right flipper just needs the ASW-A20-34

#2659 4 years ago

Man, my friend got lucky. The saucer and shooter lane actually look pretty good on this (just dirty), unlike my high speed which was BUTCHERED. Kind of surprising considering the other crazy operator hack fixes he's already found on this..
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#2660 4 years ago

deleted sorry

#2661 4 years ago

I guess I have two inserts that have cracks and need replaced.

Anyone know which part I need? And hopefully they won't look mismatched up against the others..?

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#2662 4 years ago

Deleted my mistakes

#2663 4 years ago

I'm full of questions today, sorry. Can anyone tell me what is SUPPOSED to go here?

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#2664 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I'm full of questions today, sorry. Can anyone tell me what is SUPPOSED to go here?[quoted image]

There should be pin there.
.062 diameter. It prevents the ball from resting there.
The white insert is 1 inch insert. Try Planetary pinball. Or Pinball Resource.

#2665 4 years ago

The pin is stainless steel. Marco has 12 inch rods that you can buy in various sizes. The pin is approximately 1.25 inches long.

#2667 4 years ago

I found this randomly in my loose parts box.. This isn't what I need, is it? No idea where it came from.

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#2668 4 years ago

That's the one.

#2669 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I found this randomly in my loose parts box.. This isn't what I need, is it? No idea where it came from.[quoted image]

Yeah that looks like it. Throw in the tumbler if you're using one to shine parts. 2 days at least with medium to fine walnut crushed walnut shell

The lens looks correct.

#2670 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Yeah that looks like it. Throw in the tumbler if you're using one to shine parts. 2 days at least with medium to fine walnut crushed walnut shell
The lens looks correct.

Haha I tried to delete that before anyone saw because I felt like a doofus after looking at my reference pic. Isn't that hole in the PF a LOT wider than this? Maybe my PF has some hack job nonsense there...

#2671 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

My method of choice is to use a cheapie soldering iron like this one with a fat tip on it
amazon.com link »
Place the tip on top of the stand-off and press until it gets hot and they pop right out. Let them fall on something like an old piece of plywood so the heat doesn't damage your table or floor, of course let them cool before you touch them.

What’s the best way to get them to stay in? I took mine all apart to wax the playfield but I had a heck of time getting everything back together. Some of them just kept falling right out. I wound up using a dab of hot glue but there has to be a better way.

#2672 4 years ago
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#2673 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

What’s the best way to get them to stay in? I took mine all apart to wax the playfield but I had a heck of time getting everything back together. Some of them just kept falling right out. I wound up using a dab of hot glue but there has to be a better way.

If you are talking about the "bell" spacers, I use an awl to lightly flare the tip of the spacer.
I make it so that it fits snug into the plastic, but can be removed for cleaning/polishing.

#2674 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Maybe my PF has some hack job nonsense there...

I think it does. It's a little hard to see from your picture, but it looks like somebody used a screw with some rubber rings where that pin should be, so yeah that hole will probably need to be filled and re-drilled to fit the pin.

#2675 4 years ago

The red arrow is the correct spot. The hole could have been stretched out if the pin was loose. You can also try a larger size pin if you don't want to fill the hole and drill. The pin is barely visible once fully assembled.

#2676 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:If you are talking about the "bell" spacers, I use an awl to lightly flare the tip of the spacer.
I make it so that it fits snug into the plastic, but can be removed for cleaning/polishing.

I will definitely try that next time. Thank you.

#2677 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

The red arrow is the correct spot. The hole could have been stretched out if the pin was loose. You can also try a larger size pin if you don't want to fill the hole and drill. The pin is barely visible once fully assembled.

So should that spot with the black arrow just be filled prior to hard top install?

//EDIT I guess I could just have him verify against whatever exists on the hardtop itself.

Also, I guess we're going to just look at replacing all these inserts because they're kind of crummy anyway. Are all the bigger ones 1"? And are all the smaller ones a single size also?

Thanks for helping with all my dumb questions, I appreciate it!

#2678 4 years ago

Can someone please take a couple detailed pictures of the lower and upper left flippers switch stacks and wiring? I really need to see something.

#2679 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

So should that spot with the black arrow just be filled prior to hard top install?
//EDIT I guess I could just have him verify against whatever exists on the hardtop itself.
Also, I guess we're going to just look at replacing all these inserts because they're kind of crummy anyway. Are all the bigger ones 1"? And are all the smaller ones a single size also?
Thanks for helping with all my dumb questions, I appreciate it!

Don't fill. I think the metal ball gate goes there. Lay the plastics over the holes to verify the other holes. and yes check against the hardtop as well

#2680 4 years ago

This is my lower left flipper and upper left flipper. This does not look right.

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#2681 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

This is my lower left flipper and upper left flipper. This does not look right.[quoted image][quoted image]

There backwards.... Bottom left flipper drives top left flipper.
Unless, the wires to the flippers are cut too short... and had to make do.

#2682 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

There backwards.... Bottom left flipper drives top left flipper.
Unless, the wires to the flippers are cut too short... and had to make do.

I’m really confused on this. I turned the playfield over. Here’s some clearer pictures. Like an idiot I removed the extra leaf switch from the stack but there were no wires going to it. It wasn’t connected to anything.

How do I fix this mess?

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#2683 4 years ago

Picture of right flipper

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#2684 4 years ago

A couple more of the lower and upper left.

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#2685 4 years ago

Check picture #20 of photo morgue to see how the bottom flipper is to be wired.
Black-White wire should be somewhere by the bottom left flipper.
You are missing the "make eos" switch for the bottom left flipper assembly.

#2686 4 years ago

I haven't tried putting any 'hardtops' in but they sure have come a long way. I installed a mylar overlay on my worn EBD playfield long ago when it was probably the only one being produced, like 20 years ago or more. Turned out extraordinarily bad looking and playing compared to an original pf or these new hardtops, so I found an NOS playfield and replaced it.

#2687 4 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Haha I tried to delete that before anyone saw because I felt like a doofus after looking at my reference pic. Isn't that hole in the PF a LOT wider than this? Maybe my PF has some hack job nonsense there...

Quoted from phillyfan64:

A couple more of the lower and upper left.[quoted image][quoted image]

The pics are confusing to me, I would rather go by the schematic. If no wires were connected to the outer EOS switch on the lower flipper, odds are somebody connected those 2 wires to bypass the EOS. Some ops/techs prefer this because it eliminates the lag when pressing the left flipper button. The lag is caused by the delay of the lower left flipper having to engage to close the outer EOS switch. Although the lag IMO is very minimal. The problem with this method is that you have a larger current draw when the 2 flipper coils engage at the same time. You may notice the GI lamps or switched lamps dimming when activating the left flippers.

If you have the manual, find the page in the schematics that shows the switch matrix, next to that is the coil schematic diagram and the flipper coils and EOS switches are at the top. On the upper right hand corner of the page in a block you should see GW-1192-40c. This is the page you want. I'm assuming that you know how to read these. Just to clarify for you. The lower left flipper has 2 different types of EOS. The inside switch is "normally closed" Meaning it needs the flipper pawl to move/turn and force it to open. On the schematic it will note NC for normally closed and show the switch symbol with the contacts touching which also indicates normally closed. All 3 flippers need a NC EOS switch. The outer EOS for the lower left flipper is normally open, "NO" which will show contacts open on the schematic.

Looking at your pic in post 2682, I can where the problem is. First somebody used a universal EOS switch. As it appears, this will not work with the outer switch that you removed. Did you notice before you removed if the outer switch closed when engaging the flipper? The 2 EOS switched have to work together, meaning when the inner EOS starts to open, the outer one starts to close. There should be white plastic lifter that pushes against the leaf blade to force the outer EOS closed.

See this switch from Marco, this is the correct setup for EBD lower left flipper:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A365-00046-0000

This is the lifter I was referring to:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-5258

I see how they powered up the left flipper from your pic. The black wire with white hash marks is soldered directly to the power side of the coil. This is one of the wires that goes to the outer EOS, the far end of the switch to be exact. You will see the other end of that wire at the upper flipper coil. So that's a hack.

The other side of the outer EOS should be a green wire, which is tapped off of the non-banded side outer lug of the coil. So you should have the green wire coming from the pf harness at the lower left flipper AND a green wire from the same tap to the outer EOS switch. This makes it more confusing because the hacker used green wires for the inner EOS switch when they should be brown. To simplify, you should have 2 green wire solder to the non-banded side of the diode outer lug, one from the main harness and or short green wire to the outer EOS.

I will try to scrape up some clear pics from one of my EBD restores and post them.

#2688 4 years ago

Thank you Lovef2k. Yeah it’s definitely a hack. The weird thing is that everything seems to work ok. I have a schematic but I’m no expert at reading it. The wrong color wires makes it more confusing. Hopefully you can find those clear photos. I’m going to order the correct EOS switches. It would like to straighten everything out.

I’m not sure if the old switch that I removed actually moved at all.

Thanks again.

#2689 4 years ago

Here’s the switch that I mistakenly removed. You can see someone cut the wires. I just wanted to see how it’s supposed to fit. I’m still going to order the correct switches.

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#2690 4 years ago

These latest pics help a lot. It seems like the 2 switches together are working fine. I can't see why someone bypassed it unless they didn't know how to wire it up? You can make minor adjustments on the EOS by bending the leaf blades if needed. You can that the inner EOS blade with the lifter is already tweeked, maybe you need to look at that? But since you say the flippers are working, you can leave it be, unless you are not happy with the performance. If the flippers are sloppy, try changing out the pawls-cranks since the nylon on those tends to wear quickly.

#2692 4 years ago

Yeah I don’t know why they cut it. If I’m going to rewire it and I’m understanding you and the schematic correctly, only 1 wire needs to be moved and 1 wire needs to be added. This of course is putting aside that they used the wrong colors. I’m probably going to redo all 3 flippers completely because the wrong color wires annoys and confuses me.

I found an old picture on this site that helps a little. Not sure who it belongs to but is the best photo I’ve been able to find.
D9D1BA7B-1535-44AA-AD2E-C78F9F1D09ED (resized).jpegD9D1BA7B-1535-44AA-AD2E-C78F9F1D09ED (resized).jpeg

#2693 4 years ago

Post #245 from Gatecrasher on this thread also has some detailed pictures.

#2694 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Post #245 from Gatecrasher on this thread also has some detailed pictures.

Gatecrasher (Jeff) is the EBD king! His pic from post 245 is the best one so far. See the black/white wire goes to the outer tab of the EOS? And the inner tab gets the brown wire jumped over to the coil lug with the green/yellow wire which is the non banded diode side of the coil as shown in my schematic. So you know what you need to do there. To make it kosher, I would order the correct Bally replacement inner EOS part ASW-A20-34. You already have the ASW-A10-45, the one that had the clipped wires. Make sure you get the Bally type, not the Gottlieb equivalent, although it works just as well, but doesn't look right to me. So you need 3 of the ASW-20-34 for all 3 flippers to make this right when using the linear type flippers.

#2695 4 years ago

I think I got it now. At least I hope! I will order the correct parts you listed. Question. On the schematic, how do you determine the wire color for any of the coils center lugs? I understand Bally’s numbered wire coding, but I don’t see where the center lug colors are identified.

Thanks for all your help.

#2696 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I think I got it now. At least I hope! I will order the correct parts you listed. Question. On the schematic, how do you determine the wire color for any of the coils center lugs? I understand Bally’s numbered wire coding, but I don’t see where the center lug colors are identified.
Thanks for all your help.

Glad to help when I can.

To answer your question, there is no wire color noted for the center lug because the wires on these lugs are going strait to the EOS switches. All the EBD's I have seen used brown for this. Brown is also the common wire color between all three flipper coils. Notice on schematic green wire coming from A3J1-8. That is going to the secondary EOS for the upper flipper. These means the green wire is going directly to the coil lug. And then a brown wire on the same lug going to the secondary EOS, The other side of the EOS marked N O on the schematic (secondary) has a wire number of 85 which is the black/white wire and goes to the other tab of the EOS. The other end of that wire goes to the upper flipper coil. So you have green for the lower left flipper, orange for the right flipper and black/white for upper flipper.

To help you decipher which lug is which. Look at the diodes near each lug. Also look for the tiny copper wire coming from the coil. Match the copper wire to the diode solder leads, if the lead is on the banded side of the diode,you should see brown wires from the harness connected to them. The other outer lug will be connected to the non-banded side of the diode in front of it. The center lug is actually tied in between the 2 diodes. The diode symbol on the schematic is a triangle with a line on the point of the triangle, The line denotes the banded side of the diode. The triangle also serves as an arrow showing the direction of the current flow. The line is showing blockage of current flow from that direction. The diode only allows current to travel in one direction. The flipper coil actually has 2 windings. One is for full strength of the flipper bat. Once the bat is about 75% extended, it opens the EOS and then the flipper has less power but can be held on and won't burn out the coil.

#2697 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Glad to help when I can.
To answer your question, there is no wire color noted for the center lug because the wires on these lugs are going strait to the EOS switches. All the EBD's I have seen used brown for this. Brown is also the common wire color between all three flipper coils. Notice on schematic green wire coming from A3J1-8. That is going to the secondary EOS for the upper flipper. These means the green wire is going directly to the coil lug. And then a brown wire on the same lug going to the secondary EOS, The other side of the EOS marked N O on the schematic (secondary) has a wire number of 85 which is the black/white wire and goes to the other tab of the EOS. The other end of that wire goes to the upper flipper coil. So you have green for the lower left flipper, orange for the right flipper and black/white for upper flipper.
To help you decipher which lug is which. Look at the diodes near each lug. Also look for the tiny copper wire coming from the coil. Match the copper wire to the diode solder leads, if the lead is on the banded side of the diode,you should see brown wires from the harness connected to them. The other outer lug will be connected to the non-banded side of the diode in front of it. The center lug is actually tied in between the 2 diodes. The diode symbol on the schematic is a triangle with a line on the point of the triangle, The line denotes the banded side of the diode. The triangle also serves as an arrow showing the direction of the current flow. The line is showing blockage of current flow from that direction. The diode only allows current to travel in one direction. The flipper coil actually has 2 windings. One is for full strength of the flipper bat. Once the bat is about 75% extended, it opens the EOS and then the flipper has less power but can be held on and won't burn out the coil.

Thanks for the explanation. That’s very helpful. I ordered the parts. Understandably it could be a while for delivery. I’ll report back once everything is installed or if I have any more wiring questions. Thanks again.

#2698 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Thanks for the explanation. That’s very helpful. I ordered the parts. Understandably it could be a while for delivery. I’ll report back once everything is installed or if I have any more wiring questions. Thanks again.

Yep, good luck with it!

#2699 4 years ago

I came up with a wiring question. Well 2 questions. On a schematic symbol of a regular EOS switch, which side is which? Does it matter if the 2 wire leads going to the switch are reversed? I’m just looking at my Mata Hari and I’ve always felt like one flipper is a little stronger than the other despite my best attempts to adjust the EOS switch.

#2700 4 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

I came up with a wiring question. Well 2 questions. On a schematic symbol of a regular EOS switch, which side is which? Does it matter if the 2 wire leads going to the switch are reversed? I’m just looking at my Mata Hari and I’ve always felt like one flipper is a little stronger than the other despite my best attempts to adjust the EOS switch.

As a general guide, if you use two wires of the same length, and attach them to the EOS switch then
dress the wires to the best position on the solenoid lug.
It does not matter if the wires are crossed, electrons don't care.

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