(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Barkz
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#2201 28 days ago

The only other thing I can think of is, there may be a grounding wire. Its easy to remove in Bally games. Not sure about this on EBD.

#2202 28 days ago
Quoted from srose007:

One other QUESTION: I'd like to take the playfield completely out of the cabinet. Looks like one big, thick braid of wires under the playfield that connects to multiple pin connectors up in the back box. If I unplug all of those connectors in the back box and run the cables through the slot into the main cabinet, am I good to go or is something else connected that I'm not noticing? Thanks

If you have not done this before, as you pull connectors check that one pin on each has a plug in the hole. It will correspond to a missing pin on the board header pins. If that is the case you can confidently pull off connectors knowing you will only be plugging them back in the correct spots. On EBD, there should be a rectifier board in the base of the cabinet. One of those connectors harnesses up into the playfield as well. Then the play field lifts out no problem.

#2203 27 days ago
Quoted from srose007:

One other QUESTION: I'd like to take the playfield completely out of the cabinet. Looks like one big, thick braid of wires under the playfield that connects to multiple pin connectors up in the back box. If I unplug all of those connectors in the back box and run the cables through the slot into the main cabinet, am I good to go or is something else connected that I'm not noticing? Thanks

If this is a 1981 EBD, yes you can remove the pf from the cab fairly easily. The connectors on the right side of the MPU and lamp driver board, and the left connectors of the solenoid driver come off. Also J5 from the sol driver. There a few other connectors in the backbox that need to be unplugged. Also J1 from the rectifier board.

1 week later
#2204 19 days ago

Member of the club, at least for now — not because I don’t love the game, but because I’m hoping for one that’s a bit nicer.

My backglass is bubbling and the PF has not-so-great touchups under old mylar. Probably a new PF or hardtop candidate if I end up keeping long-term. Great game!

4C7BF10E-E787-49C4-8CF2-F56E00D9D258 (resized).jpegC2EA148F-2FEF-42D3-A7DC-92DACECD4BDC (resized).jpeg
#2205 19 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Member of the club, at least for now — not because I don’t love the game, but because I’m hoping for one that’s a bit nicer.
My backglass is bubbling and the PF has not-so-great touchups under old mylar. Probably a new PF or hardtop candidate if I end up keeping long-term. Great game![quoted image][quoted image]

Nice lineup.....

#2206 18 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Nice lineup.....

Not bad. Wish I could let myself part with Af-Tor, because it’s frustratingly difficult (for me, anyway—lots of bad bounces)..but I can’t.

With that hardtop for EBD maybe coming this year, I may hold out a bit longer. My cab isn’t bad..glass can be replaced..it’s just the beat playfield!

#2207 14 days ago

Hey guys,

New owner of a project EBD and so far I'm enjoying getting it working. When I picked it up it was dead. Since then I've rebuilt the rectifier board and now we have some life. I can start a game but I'm having a few issues detailed the the following video.

1. Displays are fading/scrolling from left to right
2. Very few sounds (Should I recap or replace the squawk and talk board?)
3. Random lights aren't working. I'm struggling with the schematic to understand if it is something on the board or a connector issue.

I think that is it for now. If I need to start a new thread for all of this I'd be happy to. Thanks!

#2208 14 days ago
Quoted from joelbob:

Hey guys,
New owner of a project EBD and so far I'm enjoying getting it working. When I picked it up it was dead. Since then I've rebuilt the rectifier board and now we have some life. I can start a game but I'm having a few issues detailed the the following video.

1. Displays are fading/scrolling from left to right
2. Very few sounds (Should I recap or replace the squawk and talk board?)
3. Random lights aren't working. I'm struggling with the schematic to understand if it is something on the board or a connector issue.
I think that is it for now. If I need to start a new thread for all of this I'd be happy to. Thanks!

Congrats on joining the club! After 40+ years of playing and owning several machines, including NIB Sterns, EBD is still my favorite.

*Displays are fading/scrolling from left to right*
I'd start with power as all displays are exhibiting similar behavior. You rebuilt the rectifier board and the pin comes up and basically runs now, so that's good. Have you checked the HV test points on the rectifier to make sure it's at the expected voltages? If so, next move is to check the HV test points on the SDB board. Hard to tell from the video, but the caps on the SDB *look* original....if that's the case, they're 20+ years beyond their expected lifespan and should be replaced. Another note: while likely not the source of the fading/scrolling, it would be good practice (and quick & easy) to reflow the solder on all of the header pins of each display.

*Very few sounds (Should I recap or replace the squawk and talk board?)*
Yes to the re-cap (see above regarding the caps on the SDB).

*Random lights aren't working. I'm struggling with the schematic to understand if it is something on the board or a connector issue.*
First thing that should be done on a 38 year old pin - *re-pin all connectors for all of the boards*. Can't emphasize that enough. I've had many, many weird/random issues on project pins go away by putting on new connectors. It's tedious and it takes a long time, but you'll spend more time investigating each odd symptom. Start with a new, clean baseline with known good connection points, and then start drilling down into the individual problems if they still remain after re-pinning.

#2209 14 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Congrats on joining the club! After 40+ years of playing and owning several machines, including NIB Sterns, EBD is still my favorite.

DITTO!

#2210 13 days ago

Agreed. EBD was supposed to be that “this game is nowhere $2000+ of fun to me” game that I could easily sell to buy something else. Then I played it. Suffice it to say, I was wrong.

#2211 11 days ago

I love EBD because there’s so many ways to win a credit but when you start a game you never know which one (or more) of them you’re going to end up being steered towards depending on how the ball bounces as you progress. Left lane, maybe a ton of racks, few racks but a ton of multiplier shots, multiplier specials, etc., or a myriad of combinations. You can have two spectacularly successful games but they played out totally different. And the carryover DELUXE is a sweet long-term anticipatory feature, should have been employed in a lot more pinballs.

#2212 11 days ago

To me, Eight Ball Deluxe is the best pinball playfield and ruleset ever designed.

It's the game that got me permanently hooked on pinball when it was originally released.

I get far more enjoyment out of playing this single-ball game than I do out of all too many of today's modern games even with all their cutting-edge electronics, multiple multiball modes, playfield toys, video displays, licensed themes and jackpots.

Now if only someone would do a remake of the game with the same playfield, rules and artwork - but build it with modern materials and electronics. Perchance to dream.

#2213 10 days ago

EBD absolutely has that “one more game” draw to it..and usually one turns into at least 5. Agreed there are multiple ways to score big points. Mine is in need of some serious TLC and it’s still a blast. That’s the real sign of a great game. An average game wouldn’t be interesting at all if it were a less than stellar example—imo.

#2214 10 days ago

My right bank of drop targets won’t reset after end of ball or end of game - anyone have any idea why and how to remedy?

#2215 10 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

My right bank of drop targets won’t reset after end of ball or end of game - anyone have any idea why and how to remedy?

If the saucer eject isn't firing either, then Q13 on the SDB has failed or the connection from the SDB to the solenoid expander is broken. The horseshoe target reset and the saucer are driven by Q13 if I read schematic correctly. The solenoid expander switches between the 2 when needed. If the saucer fires, then I would look at the coils on the target reset. There are 2 coils wired together since it's such a large bank to reset, I guess 1 coil wasn't strong enough. If the saucer is firing, then I would suspect the header pins on the solenoid expander (SEB) if all the other coils in the game are firing. I have seen cold solder joints on these before. Try pressing on the connector while doing the self test for the coils and see if the target resets

A less common problem would a failure at the 9 pin connector to the target bank or fried diode on the coils, bad solder joint to the coil lugs.

#2216 10 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

If the saucer eject isn't firing either, then Q13 on the SDB has failed or the connection from the SDB to the solenoid expander is broken. The horseshoe target reset and the saucer are driven by Q13 if I read schematic correctly. The solenoid expander switches between the 2 when needed. If the saucer fires, then I would look at the coils on the target reset. There are 2 coils wired together since it's such a large bank to reset, I guess 1 coil wasn't strong enough. If the saucer is firing, then I would suspect the header pins on the solenoid expander (SEB) if all the other coils in the game are firing. I have seen cold solder joints on these before. Try pressing on the connector while doing the self test for the coils and see if the target resets
A less common problem would a failure at the 9 pin connector to the target bank or fried diode on the coils, bad solder joint to the coil lugs.

I did read the schematic wrong, it's Q8 not 13. Goes to connector J510

#2217 10 days ago

If the bank resets for a new game then there's a switch problem. Check the leaf blades on the side. Sometimes they get bent from raising the pf and prop rod hitting them. There's alot going on in that area. Many diodes and caps that could break or short.

#2218 10 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

If the saucer eject isn't firing either, then Q13 on the SDB has failed or the connection from the SDB to the solenoid expander is broken. The horseshoe target reset and the saucer are driven by Q13 if I read schematic correctly. The solenoid expander switches between the 2 when needed. If the saucer fires, then I would look at the coils on the target reset. There are 2 coils wired together since it's such a large bank to reset, I guess 1 coil wasn't strong enough. If the saucer is firing, then I would suspect the header pins on the solenoid expander (SEB) if all the other coils in the game are firing. I have seen cold solder joints on these before. Try pressing on the connector while doing the self test for the coils and see if the target resets
A less common problem would a failure at the 9 pin connector to the target bank or fried diode on the coils, bad solder joint to the coil lugs.

The saucer is firing - what is the solenoid expander?

#2219 10 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

The saucer is firing - what is the solenoid expander?

It's a small pcb under the playfield. It has a relay on it and a single connector going to it. It is there because there wasn't enough driver transistor on the main solenoid driver because of the 7 memory coils on the horseshoe bank. It switches between the 6 different coils controlled by it. 3 on one side of the relay and 3 on the other. One one line you have the 7 bank reset and the saucer controlled by a single transistor on the solenoid driver. If the relay failed, then there would be 3 coils or maybe even 6 coils that wouldn't fire. It should make a clicking sound when you put the game in self test, lamp test, first press of the red button on the coin door.

#2220 10 days ago

Self test isn’t working - I did just put an Alltek light board in, but everything seems to be fine

#2221 10 days ago

Also now on power up that solenoid expander is rattling - it stops once the start up cycle is done

#2222 10 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Also now on power up that solenoid expander is rattling - it stops once the start up cycle is done

If you put the game in lamp test listen to the solenoid expander relay...
If the relay is "buzzing/chattering" then change the lamp bridge.
If the relay is "clicking" then something else is wrong.

#2223 10 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Also now on power up that solenoid expander is rattling - it stops once the start up cycle is done

That's strange. Do all of the other coils fire after game boots? 3 presses of the red button puts it in solenoid test, wait a second between each press of the button. Take note of any coils that don't fire or fire twice before the re-start of the coil test. The coils will keep firing until you press the red button again or turn game off to reset it. 4th press of the red button is the switch matrix test. You should get a zero on the display with ball removed and all targets are reset.

As far as the chatter, it could be the relay or one of the components on the board is going bad. Or you're not getting 43V at the SEB (pin 9 yellow wire). I'm not sure where the SEB get's 43V from. Probably from the coil circuit on the PF. Try to follow it and look for a bad connection. If your voltage is good, remove the SEB and inspect the header pins reverse side for cracked/cold solder joints. Which version EBD do you have? Does it have 3 fuses or 1 fuse under the PF?

If you end up needing a SEB this is your best bet: https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html

#2224 10 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

If you put the game in lamp test listen to the solenoid expander relay...
If the relay is "buzzing/chattering" then change the lamp bridge.
If the relay is "clicking" then something else is wrong.

It's been my experience that the SEB should click when entering lamp test.

#2225 10 days ago

The lamp by the SEB should be working, flashing in lamp test. If not, change it with a standard bulb, not LED. So Vector is on to something. I forgot that the SEB depends on the lamp circuit as well to function.

#2226 10 days ago

Well you guys helped me figure the drop targets. I had run this attachment (pic 1) to this line (pic 2) since I thought that’s what the instructions told me to do to help with ghosting LEDs in the playfield...now I just need to know where to attach this Since non of the insert lights work when I don’t have this connected somewhere
A0476146-FD08-420F-8F53-3AB4E94A2B8E (resized).jpegA637A9F5-D695-4F80-9926-ABBCA3D74363 (resized).jpeg

#2227 10 days ago

You had the jumper on the wrong side of the switch lamp circuit. Or it was on the GI bus line, hard to tell from pic. The switched lamp bus line will have a bluish green wire soldered somewhere on the lamp insert panel trace wire. You can solder the jumper anywhere on that line. You don't want any trace wire that has a red and white wire of green and orange wire connected to them. Those are GI.

#2228 10 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

You had the jumper on the wrong side of the switch lamp circuit. Or it was on the GI bus line, hard to tell from pic. The switched lamp bus line will have a bluish green wire soldered somewhere on the lamp insert panel trace wire. You can solder the jumper anywhere on that line. You don't want any trace wire that has a red and white wire of green and orange wire connected to them. Those are GI.

So I see this green wire that I attached to - but I’m still not getting any insert lights. I don’t know what the lamp insert panel trace wire means. I have the line knowledge of an infant. That buzzing is now gone since we moved that yellow jumper off the old line.
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#2229 9 days ago

Sorry for the confusion but you are still tapping into the GI circuit. Note my last post when I said stay away from red, white, green and orange. There are 3 lamp circuits on the lamp panel, 2 GI and 1 switched lamp. The switched lamps are tilt, HSTD, game over, etc etc. Also the DELUXE progression lamps are switched. Panel trace wire is the bare wire that is stapled. The switched lamps on the panel will have a specific wire on one side of the socket and the other side soldered to the trace wire. This is where you need to attach the jumper. The trace side of the socket gets fed by the Sw lamp bus line. Usually by a single or sometimes doubled up Bluish colored wire. My EBD is broken down and put away for a future restore so I can't pinpoint it exactly for you.

I studied your photo but I can't seem to find the GI feed line, maybe it's hidden under the player 2 display bracket? Anyway it looks like a good place to attach the jumper is on the bare wire running along the bottom edge of your lamp panel. If you follow that line around the panel you should find the SW bus line feed soldered some place along that trace.

It may be possible that you blew the SW illumination fuse, or worse, the alltek board but let's hope it's only the fuse.

#2230 9 days ago

I just looked at your panel pick again and yes it looks like the Sw lamp feed is under the player 2 score bracket. From the back side of the panel when looking at it, you will 3 lamps under the bracket. The one to the right is GI, the middle and left are switched, on the middle lamp I see a wire on the top side of the socket, that should be it.

If you find a bad fuse, F1 20A fast blow, measure TP1, you should get about 5.5 to 6.5 VDC. If not, BR1 may be failing or fried. While you at it, inspect the fuse clips for F1 and F5. These are high current circuit that usually have badly tarnished clips that cause heat build up and extra current draw.

#2231 9 days ago

I meant to say measure voltage after replacing the fuse.

#2232 9 days ago

I replaced F1 20a and restarted with the old light board in and the fuse blew again.

#2233 9 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

I replaced F1 20a and restarted with the old light board in and the fuse blew again.

Ugh!! Change the bridge BR1.
If one can not change the BR1 bridge, then one should buy a
replacement power supply bridge board.
1) Unplug lamp board connectors ( Main and AUX.)
2) Unplug playfield power connector J1 from power board... just to be sure.
3) Use an Ohm meter and test the BR1 bridge... If you do not have a test meter...
Then;
4) Unplug J3, J4, J2, along with J1. all are output connectors, leave J5 and J6 plugged in.
5) Use a good sacrificial 20 AMP fuse and replace F1.
6) Does the fuse blow?
-- Answer: No... Then a short some where.....
---------- Yes... Bad BR1...change BR1. If one cannot change BR1 then one should buy a replacement board.

#2234 9 days ago

I’ll try this tomorrow - thanks for all the help so far. I just want to get this running so I can see how great this game is...hopefully worth the effort!

#2235 9 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

I’ll try this tomorrow - thanks for all the help so far. I just want to get this running so I can see how great this game is...hopefully worth the effort!

It is, 100%, worth the effort.

#2236 9 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Ugh!! Change the bridge BR1.
If one can not change the BR1 bridge, then one should buy a
replacement power supply bridge board.
1) Unplug lamp board connectors ( Main and AUX.)
2) Unplug playfield power connector J1 from power board... just to be sure.
3) Use an Ohm meter and test the BR1 bridge... If you do not have a test meter...
Then;
4) Unplug J3, J4, J2, along with J1. all are output connectors, leave J5 and J6 plugged in.
5) Use a good sacrificial 20 AMP fuse and replace F1.
6) Does the fuse blow?
-- Answer: No... Then a short some where.....
---------- Yes... Bad BR1...change BR1. If one cannot change BR1 then one should buy a replacement board.

You might also want to inspect the rectifier board, look for burnt traces under it, very common. If you decide to replace BR1, make sure you change out the fuse clips for F1 and 5. Big Daddy Ent. sells a nice rebuild kit for -54. I'm guessing BR1 blew out since that jumper wire was tied into the GI circuit. The GI circuit is AC voltage and switched lamps are DC. Hopefully the Alltek board survived!

#2237 7 days ago

Fuse blew - what do I do with said BR1?
image (resized).jpg

#2238 7 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Fuse blew - what is BR1?

Bridge Rectifier. The diodes near F3 look pretty crusty, too. I'd recommend a rebuild kit for that AS-2518-54 power supply. Pick up a kit from Big Daddy:

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps54a

#2239 7 days ago

Yeah I do not have the skills for that lol...can someone please confirm this is what I should buy:

https://ksarcade.net/new-replacement-bally-power-module-as-2518-54.html

#2240 7 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Yeah I do not have the skills for that lol...can someone please confirm this is what I should buy:
https://ksarcade.net/new-replacement-bally-power-module-as-2518-54.html

Yup.

#2241 7 days ago

Thanks, Ordered. Now the jumper wire I got with the alltek does not reach all the way across the back board to reach under the player 2 score reel. I’m assuming pic 1 shows the correct line I need to attach to. So can I attach down here in pic 2 so I don’t blow anything the next go around?

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#2242 7 days ago
Quoted from Barkz:

Thanks, Ordered. Now the jumper wire I got with the alltek does not reach all the way across the back board to reach under the player 2 score reel. I’m assuming pic 1 shows the correct line I need to attach to. So can I attach down here in pic 2 so I don’t blow anything the next go around?

You don't need to go that far with the TP13 wire from the Alltek. You just need to get to a lamp control line and there's one much closer to the Alltek board. Here's a picture of mine (blue wire) - I'm alligator clipping to the control lamp wire under the D-E-L-U-X-E lights. The wire is long - I used it to test/confirm everything was working right when I put in the Alltek board last year, and I haven't gotten around to embedding it in the wire harness yet.

And before anyone admonishes me for the original battery on my EBD MPU, I bought a few Weebly NVRAM chips last month and will be updating it this weekend or next!
Alltek TP13 Wire.jpg

#2243 7 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

You don't need to go that far with the TP13 wire from the Alltek. You just need to get to a lamp control line and there's one much closer to the Alltek board. Here's a picture of mine (blue wire) - I'm alligator clipping to the control lamp wire under the D-E-L-U-X-E lights. The wire is long - I used it to test/confirm everything was working right when I put in the Alltek board last year, and I haven't gotten around to embedding it in the wire harness yet.
And before anyone admonishes me for the original battery on my EBD MPU, I bought a few Weebly NVRAM chips last month and will be updating it this weekend or next!
[quoted image]

#2244 7 days ago

Can someone tell me what the behavior SHOULD be, in multiplayer, for the ball drop targets? Seems it’s tracking them fine with lights, but it’s doing all sorts of crazy nonsense with the drop target bank itself.

Works perfectly in single player but iirc it doesn’t drop/raise any targets between balls, it just leaves the bank as-is.

#2245 7 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

And before anyone admonishes me for the original battery on my EBD MPU, I bought a few Weebly NVRAM chips last month and will be updating it this weekend or next!
[quoted image]

When you go through that can you snap a few pictures? Mine has the original as well and I might as well update it.

#2246 7 days ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Can someone tell me what the behavior SHOULD be, in multiplayer, for the ball drop targets? Seems it’s tracking them fine with lights, but it’s doing all sorts of crazy nonsense with the drop target bank itself.
Works perfectly in single player but iirc it doesn’t drop/raise any targets between balls, it just leaves the bank as-is.

Run solenoid test and see if the memory coils are firing in order. Ball 1 and 2 for player 1 are controlled by the solenoid expander. Solenoid test is 3rd press of the red self test button.

#2247 7 days ago

Are EBD 81 replacement wiring harnesses available? Specifically display harness. This harness is chewed up and covered with electrical tape in the large bundle. Looks like it has been pinched in back box door over time. Can go through and patch am sure but would rather replace. Turned on and displays are missing digits etc. moving the harness in the giant electrical tape bundle fixes this.

#2248 7 days ago
Quoted from alimerick:

Are EBD 81 replacement wiring harnesses available? Specifically display harness. This harness is chewed up and covered with electrical tape in the large bundle. Looks like it has been pinched in back box door over time. Can go through and patch am sure but would rather replace. Turned on and displays are missing digits etc. moving the harness in the giant electrical tape bundle fixes this.

The good news is that the EBD display wiring harness is shared between a bunch of other early Bally SS titles (18? 25?) so there could be lots of opportunities to find a replacement. The bad news is that I've never seen anyone selling just a harness, and I don't know of any repro's out there (I've seen repro's for the Bally coin door harness, but not the playfield or backbox harnesses). You may have to find a comparable early Bally SS title that someone is willing to part out or you buy a basket case on the cheap to part out yourself.

#2249 7 days ago
Quoted from alimerick:

Are EBD 81 replacement wiring harnesses available? Specifically display harness. This harness is chewed up and covered with electrical tape in the large bundle. Looks like it has been pinched in back box door over time. Can go through and patch am sure but would rather replace. Turned on and displays are missing digits etc. moving the harness in the giant electrical tape bundle fixes this.

The wiring harness has electrical tape at the bend point... That is factory.
Need to show a picture...

#2250 6 days ago
Quoted from alimerick:

Are EBD 81 replacement wiring harnesses available? Specifically display harness. This harness is chewed up and covered with electrical tape in the large bundle. Looks like it has been pinched in back box door over time. Can go through and patch am sure but would rather replace. Turned on and displays are missing digits etc. moving the harness in the giant electrical tape bundle fixes this.

Third Coast Pinball can make you one. He has a store in the market place here on PS. Shoot him an email.

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