(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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#2001 1 year ago

I'm getting ready to sell my amateur restored EBD, anyone interested? Send me a PM. Located in Tampa.

#2002 1 year ago

I have an 81 EBD that I swapped an NOS pf into 20 years ago. The original pf had doubled-up stainless steel flipper lane guides so that’s what I’ve had on it since. But most pics I see show the bottom guide is supposed to be the clear plastic though I have seen a few where they were both the steel ones. I do have the two plastic ones from a new set of plastics... is mine actually wrong and all the factory ones used those two plastics under the steel ones? Thanks!

#2003 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I have an 81 EBD that I swapped an NOS pf into 20 years ago. The original pf had doubled-up stainless steel flipper lane guides so that’s what I’ve had on it since. But most pics I see show the bottom guide is supposed to be the clear plastic though I have seen a few where they were both the steel ones. I do have the two plastic ones from a new set of plastics... is mine actually wrong and all the factory ones used those two plastics under the steel ones? Thanks!

The factory setup was the plastics where the ball rolls along them and the metal on top. I was having ball-hop issues and found that swapping the metal and plastic positions helped alleviate that, but later I ordered skinnier flippers, which allowed me to swap back the plastic and metal guides to their normal positions. It may be that others have swapped the guides for a similar reason.

#2004 1 year ago

Yeah now I’m thinking the few pics I found that looked like two metal guides, the bottom one was just really dirty. Weird though that whoever owned this game before me did that, you’d think those two plastics would never get broken, and why use two more metal guides that could be used in another EBD? Oh well I think I’ll just leave it this way since both guides look to be the exact same size and I have no ball hop issues.

#2005 1 year ago

I have had 5 EBD games so far and they were mounted both ways. The plastic mounted under the metal is correct. I noticed Flash Gordon which was the game made just before EBD did not have the plastic guide, only metal. I noticed that the metal guides got peened over on FG which also beats up the ball. When I did a FG restore, I added the plastic guides to match EBD. It helps keep the ball from jumping over the metal guide and lets the GI light be more visible. This may be why Bally added it to EBD? Who knows? Only problem is that the plastic guide breaks and wears faster than the metal.

#2006 1 year ago

chromed

DSC01791 (resized).JPGDSC01792 (resized).JPG
#2007 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

chromed
[quoted image][quoted image]

That looks super nice! Great job

#2008 1 year ago

Is there a source for the metal Bally stand up posts? I will think about changing to the plastic guides just to try them since I do have them and they are new.

#2009 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Is there a source for the metal Bally stand up posts? I will think about changing to the plastic guides just to try them since I do have them and they are new.

Nobody makes them but you can use them from old plastics which are the same stand. Early Bally and Stern are the same.

#2010 1 year ago

I think I may have found an issue with my 'ball skipping past the saucer' bugaboo. The top 'inner saucer lane' plastic here is the one I've had in the game for years, you can see how the top edge has been worn away. The other is an unused repro I had left over from another set. The unused one matches my old yellowed one perfectly (which has ZERO wear here!) so I just put the old one back in. I dunno, this jagged-edged one must have been made out of some crappy plastic, now I'm not even sure if it was cut very accurately to begin with either. I can't believe it's off that much just from wear because the game has been under relatively light use in my house.

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#2011 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I think I may have found an issue with my 'ball skipping past the saucer' bugaboo. The top 'inner saucer lane' plastic here is the one I've had in the game for years, you can see how the top edge has been worn away. The other is an unused repro I had left over from another set. The unused one matches my old yellowed one perfectly (which has ZERO wear here!) so I just put the old one back in. I dunno, this jagged-edged one must have been made out of some crappy plastic, now I'm not even sure if it was cut very accurately to begin with either. I can't believe it's off that much just from wear because the game has been under relatively light use in my house.
[quoted image]

That's good to know. Where did you source the repro from?

#2012 1 year ago

Oh jeez this must been 10 or 15 years ago, maybe longer, can't remember. It's all kind of weird too, this inner one is the only clear piece that I kept my original of and also the only one I ended up having an extra repro of. I'm still trying to remember what the heck happened way back when.

#2013 1 year ago

I used Shay's repro plastics on my last restore and didn't have this issue.

#2014 1 year ago

Has anyone remade EBD metal ball guide it measures length 20" x 1" high?

I know new rails have been made for other classic Bally's

#2015 1 year ago
Quoted from Madmax541:

Has anyone remade EBD metal ball guide it measures length 20" x 1" high?
I know new rails have been made for other classic Bally's

No new Bally ball guides that I'm aware of. I have the metal to make them but it's a tedious process. First I have to remove the L brackets from the original guide. I flatten the original guide and use it as a template to mark the new holes for the L bracket rivets. I use nickel plated brass rivets that are similar to the originals. The rivets I have are slightly longer so I need to use a back up washer behind the rivet. It's hidden by the PF plastics so it's no big deal.

I bought the metal from "Metal by the inch" online about 8 years ago. Mirrored stainless. They cut it slightly over an inch, maybe by a 32nd. It doesn't make a difference on EBD except at the very top by the left ball gate. The guide needs to ground down a tad. The ball gate covers it and it's never visible. I have enough to make a few more, I can't remember off the top of my head how many pieces I have left. My pins and parts are in storage since I moved. I will be getting everything out of storage within the next 2 months. If you're interested in having me make one, PM me.

You can also check out Vids thread for making new ball guides.

#2016 1 year ago

Appreciate info

#2017 1 year ago

Need help in identifying where this red wire goes.
EBD top left side, looks like it might go to GI.
In second picture bottom middle below brown plastic clip with solder ball is where I am guessing connection needs to be.
As I was taking Playfield apart to do a swap noticed red wire just hanging out there.

image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpeg
#2018 1 year ago

Better pic of where I believe it goes.
Looking to get confirmed.

Thanks

image (resized).jpeg
#2019 1 year ago

Here are a few pix from my the underside of my EBD (upper left corner) - use the rollover as a frame of reference to match up with your pix.

Rollover 01.jpgRollover 02.jpgRollover 03.jpg
#2020 1 year ago

That's it someone removed socket under roll over.

Appreciate the pics and help

1 week later
#2021 1 year ago

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

#2022 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

First, the announcing of "3-ball" at power on means that the machine is set to 3 ball play (doesn't have anything to do with your 3-ball problem). If the machine was set to 5 ball play, it would announce "5-ball" at power on and so on.

Is this target issue you're having new behavior (did it ever work)? Was there any recent work done on the machine?

#2023 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Are there ANY other odd target or lamp behaviors, or is it ONLY the 1 and 3 combination and 9 and 11 combination?

#2024 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

One of the problems I'm trying to solve on my EBD is shown in this video. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

That seems like a switch matrix problem. Since the switches behind the target bank are near the edge of the PF, it's easy to knock something out of adjustment. Usually from the prop rod. I would look at those switches very closely. Get a flashlight in there and poke around. Look for any diode or cap leads touching anything they are not supposed to be touching. Make sure none of the leaf blades are bent. The spacing between the contacts should be about 1/16 in. when targets are up. If you have the game schematics, look to see if the 1 and 3 targets are on the same column. You may have a diode gone bad or a shorted capacitor. To test a diode, you need a good VOM with a diode test setting. I recommend a Fluke meter. A good diode should read about 60 Millivolts. You have to unsolder one side to test a diode.

Also if the switch contacts are too close, the vibration from the targets dropping will activate nearby switches. It attract mode, try bumping the side of the PF near that target bank and see if anything happens that shouldn't...

#2025 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

First, the announcing of "3-ball" at power on means that the machine is set to 3 ball play (doesn't have anything to do with your 3-ball problem). If the machine was set to 5 ball play, it would announce "5-ball" at power on and so on.
Is this target issue you're having new behavior (did it ever work)? Was there any recent work done on the machine?

It's been this way since I bought it 2 months ago. Just trying to sort out the issues one by one. Good to know about the '3 ball' callout simply being that it's set to three ball mode. Thanks!

#2026 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Are there ANY other odd target or lamp behaviors, or is it ONLY the 1 and 3 combination and 9 and 11 combination?

My multipliers are also odd. Hit the 2x target and it momentarily lights the 4x lamp before changing back to the 2x lamp. It scores as 4x though. I tried tracing the wires back to the board, but I've got replacement boards and I don't think the original schematics match what I've got.

#2027 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

That seems like a switch matrix problem. Since the switches behind the target bank are near the edge of the PF, it's easy to knock something out of adjustment. Usually from the prop rod. I would look at those switches very closely. Get a flashlight in there and poke around. Look for any diode or cap leads touching anything they are not supposed to be touching. Make sure none of the leaf blades are bent. The spacing between the contacts should be about 1/16 in. when targets are up. If you have the game schematics, look to see if the 1 and 3 targets are on the same column. You may have a diode gone bad or a shorted capacitor. To test a diode, you need a good VOM with a diode test setting. I recommend a Fluke meter. A good diode should read about 60 Millivolts. You have to unsolder one side to test a diode.
Also if the switch contacts are too close, the vibration from the targets dropping will activate nearby switches. It attract mode, try bumping the side of the PF near that target bank and see if anything happens that shouldn't...

Thanks for those suggestions and the lengthy response! I'll check it out later after work.

#2028 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Thanks for those suggestions and the lengthy response! I'll check it out later after work.

Refer to post #2000 previous page about the multiplier drop targets. To add to that, try closing the 2X target switch by hand and see if it does the same thing. If the game is scoring the 4X target, then the switch for 4 must be closing somehow, maybe contacts too close or problem with matrix. Not sure what you mean by schematic not matching, can you explain?

#2029 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

My multipliers are also odd. Hit the 2x target and it momentarily lights the 4x lamp before changing back to the 2x lamp. It scores as 4x though. I tried tracing the wires back to the board, but I've got replacement boards and I don't think the original schematics match what I've got.

when my multiplier targets went wonky it ended up being a short on the coin door of all things! Check out the coin door and coin shutes

#2030 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Refer to post #2000 previous page about the multiplier drop targets. To add to that, try closing the 2X target switch by hand and see if it does the same thing. If the game is scoring the 4X target, then the switch for 4 must be closing somehow, maybe contacts too close or problem with matrix. Not sure what you mean by schematic not matching, can you explain?

It's interesting that the 2x and 4x multiplier switches are on the same wire in the matrix as the 1-9 and 3-11 targets, respectively. Don't quite know what to make of that yet.

Switch Matrix (resized).jpg
#2031 1 year ago
Quoted from tominator:

when my multiplier targets went wonky it ended up being a short on the coin door of all things! Check out the coin door and coin shutes

Yes that is very possible since the tilt switch is on the same column as the multiplier drops. I believe the cab roll tilt switch, the coin door slam and PF tilt are wired in parallel and share the same block in the matrix. I can't verify this since my games are in storage right now. Once I had a Meteor that would not boot with coin plugged in, unplugged, it booted. So weird things can happen when the coin door has a short. And they often do because people hack them by adding door bell switched for credits. Cutting wires etc.

#2032 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

It's interesting that the 2x and 4x multiplier switches are on the same wire in the matrix as the 1-9 and 3-11 targets, respectively. Don't quite know what to make of that yet.[quoted image]

I think you're on to something here. These are the same switches that @cngizbleevng is having an issue with. I would think it's a diode or stuck switch issue between ST-0 thru ST 3 and I 0 thru I 3, any switch in those columns and rows. I would first start by going into self test, switch test. With all targets reset and ball removed, the display should flash 0. Then close each switch one by one making sure the number on the display matches the chart for switch test. If a number appears with all targets reset and ball removed, I would look at that switch and make sure it's physically open first, then loosen the 2 screws that hold the switch to the pf. Sometimes they short on their own, between the stacks. Drop of solder sometimes gets stuck on them. Stacks breaking down or whatever.

I find that the switch matrix to be one of the hardest things to diagnose on a pin. I can't wrap my head around how the current flows through the circuit when you can visibly see that the switch is open. Like how the MPU activates the coils during self test without closing the actual switch. Which reminds me, I would also run the coil test and make sure those number also match the chart.

Another problem could be a short on the header pins of the MPU. If the header was ever replaced, there could be a solder "bridge" between the pins, even a minute piece of solder not even touching all the time can cause this.

My headache just worse, thanks

#2033 1 year ago

I meant to say ST 0 thru 04, not 03, but now that I think about, it might be the whole damn thing!

#2034 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

It's interesting that the 2x and 4x multiplier switches are on the same wire in the matrix as the 1-9 and 3-11 targets, respectively. Don't quite know what to make of that yet.[quoted image]

Where would this switch matrix be in the machine?

#2035 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Where would this switch matrix be in the machine?

The switch matrix is "logical" in that the schematic represents how all of the switches are physically connected/wired, not necessarily where they reside on the machine itself.

I'll take a look at my EBD tonight to see if I can get any inspiration on next steps. I've stared at the switch matrix in the schematic for a while hoping some commonality would pop to me that explain all of the odd behavior. It's likely we're dealing with >1 issue.

Run thru the steps that lovef2k provided above for going thru the self test on switches and report back. That could help us with the next move(s).

#2036 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Refer to post #2000 previous page about the multiplier drop targets. To add to that, try closing the 2X target switch by hand and see if it does the same thing. If the game is scoring the 4X target, then the switch for 4 must be closing somehow, maybe contacts too close or problem with matrix. Not sure what you mean by schematic not matching, can you explain?

The switches all seem to be about 1/16" apart.

As far as the schematic not matching, when I look at the wiring under the playfield, I see that the 2x multiplier has a white/green wire coming from it.

When I follow that wire, it goes to the Alltek board J2 position 8, not J1 position 27 as in the wiring diagram (I don't think there even is a position 27 on the Alltek board on J1).

MultiplierWiring (resized).jpg2xWireToBoard (resized).jpgWiringDiagram (resized).JPG
#2037 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

when I look at the wiring under the playfield, I see that the 2x multiplier has a white/green wire coming from it.

Can you post a good clear picture of that wire connected to the 2x multiplier? Are you looking at the 2x switch (drop target) or 2x lamp? Do you have a DMM to confirm the start and end points of the wire are indeed the same wire? FWIW, the Alltek MPU board (and Alltek Lamp board if you have one of those in your system as well) is pin for pin compatible with all of the machines it supports, including EBD. The connectors (and keys for the connectors) all line up.

In the schematic above, references to connectors on "A4" are the connectors on the MPU board (for example "A4J2-8") whereas references to connectors on "A5" are the connectors on the Lamp board (for example, "A5J1-27").

#2038 1 year ago

The list on the right is for the feature lamp...

#2039 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

The switches all seem to be about 1/16" apart.
As far as the schematic not matching, when I look at the wiring under the playfield, I see that the 2x multiplier has a white/green wire coming from it.
When I follow that wire, it goes to the Alltek board J2 position 8, not J1 position 27 as in the wiring diagram (I don't think there even is a position 27 on the Alltek board on J1).[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

This is the lamp driver board A5, see if the wire colors match the feature lamp associated with that connector. Also it looks like the connector has been changed so it is possible someone made a mistake. Look at the MPU schematic to verify wiring to the switch. Did you run the self test yet?

#2040 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Can you post a good clear picture of that wire connected to the 2x multiplier? Are you looking at the 2x switch (drop target) or 2x lamp? Do you have a DMM to confirm the start and end points of the wire are indeed the same wire? FWIW, the Alltek MPU board (and Alltek Lamp board if you have one of those in your system as well) is pin for pin compatible with all of the machines it supports, including EBD. The connectors (and keys for the connectors) all line up.
In the schematic above, references to connectors on "A4" are the connectors on the MPU board (for example "A4J2-8") whereas references to connectors on "A5" are the connectors on the Lamp board (for example, "A5J1-27").

The first photo of the three shows the green/white wire coming out the top of the switch (2x multiplier is the one on the left of the bank). Using a multimeter, the continuity setting goes from OL to 0.00 when connected at each end of that green wire, so I know I've got the proper wire at the board.

#2041 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

The list on the right is for the feature lamp...

Ok, I understand that now. The lamps are almost always correct though, it's the scoring of the multiplier that seems to be off. BTW, is there supposed to be a call-out for the multiplier when it's dropped? I never hear anything said when hitting any of the multipliers.

I'll post a video to better explain things.

#2042 1 year ago

Here's the video showing the Multiplier problem. When the 2x is hit, it briefly lights the 4x lamp before switching to the 2x lamp (occasionally the 4x lamp stays on and doesn't switch to the 2x lamp). It scores as 4x though. Once the 3x is hit, the proper lamp lights up, but it still scores as 4x. When the 4x is hit, no sound is made, the 3x lamp stays lit, and scoring stays at 4x. When 5x is hit it does advance scoring to 5x and the proper lamp is lit.

#2043 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

Here's the video showing the Multiplier problem. When the 2x is hit, it briefly lights the 4x lamp before switching to the 2x lamp (occasionally the 4x lamp stays on and doesn't switch to the 2x lamp). It scores as 4x though. Once the 3x is hit, the proper lamp lights up, but it still scores as 4x. When the 4x is hit, no sound is made, the 3x lamp stays lit, and scoring stays at 4x. When 5x is hit it does advance scoring to 5x and the proper lamp is lit.

Makes me wonder if the x4 drop target switch is shorted somehow. Would be interesting to "remove" it from the equation and then see if the preceding 2X and 3X drop targets then act/score correctly. Do you have a pin removal tool? As a test, you could remove the pin from the A4J2-10 connector on the MPU board, put the connector back on the MPU, and see if the behavior of the x2 and x3 drop targets gets better or has no affect.

Or instead of removing A4J2-10 from the connector, you could temporarily unsolder the White with Orange stripe wire from the 4x drop target switch and see how the x2 and x3 targets behave.

#2044 1 year ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Makes me wonder if the x4 drop target switch is shorted somehow. Would be interesting to "remove" it from the equation and then see if the preceding 2X and 3X drop targets then act/score correctly. Do you have a pin removal tool? As a test, you could remove the pin from the A4J2-10 connector on the MPU board, put the connector back on the MPU, and see if the behavior of the x2 and x3 drop targets gets better or has no affect.
Or instead of removing A4J2-10 from the connector, you could temporarily unsolder the White with Orange stripe wire from the 4x drop target switch and see how the x2 and x3 targets behave.

I don't have a pin removal tool, but would I be able to bend the pin 45 degrees to test without it and then bend it back, or are they more brittle than that?

#2045 1 year ago
Quoted from cngizbleevng:

I don't have a pin removal tool, but would I be able to bend the pin 45 degrees to test without it and then bend it back, or are they more brittle than that?

Depending on how well/poorly it aged, it could be brittle. Do you have a soldering iron? It would take mere seconds to desolder the White with Orange stripe wire from the switch, then test, then another few seconds to solder the wire back.

#2046 1 year ago

You can easily remove connector pins using a small flat blade screw driver like the kind used for eye glasses or similar. Press the tang on the connector thru the slot on the housing while pulling the wire out.

#2047 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

You can easily remove connector pins using a small flat blade screw driver like the kind used for eye glasses or similar. Press the tang on the connector thru the slot on the housing while pulling the wire out.

I just ended up doing it this way (removed the orange/white 4x wire). It made no difference in the scoring or the lamp lighting.

#2048 1 year ago

I can confirm there is no "call out" when hitting the multiplier targets; it does make a cool "muuunnh" sound though.

#2049 1 year ago

Hey guys. Can somebody post a couple of close up pictures of the three flippers mechs showing the switch stacks as well as the wire color and placement. Mine are a bit jacked up and I’d like to see some clean original stuff.

Thanks

Dave

#2050 1 year ago

I just ended up doing it this way (removed the orange/white 4x wire). It made no difference in the scoring or the lamp lighting.</blockquote

Ok, I just reviewed the vid you posted the other day. You have the later 1984 version EBD?? Make sure the schematic matches that game specifically because the wire colors are different than the early 81 version. Maybe not all are different but I have noticed different color wires on both games. I found this out when I was stripping parts from a PF that I bought which was from either an LE or 84 version, I was working on a 81 version.

Once this is established, you need to double check the work that was done by whoever replaced the connectors on the game. I know they were changed because all versions of EBD originally had IDC connectors, not KK molex, which is the white one you posted a pic of.

Once that is confirmed, you have to run the switch test I described earlier. The manual has instructions if you're not sure how. The process is the same for most Bally pins of this era.

Also can you provide us with the type of MPU is in the game, original, from another game that was modded or an aftermarket such as Alltek? If Alltek, verify that the dips are set for EBD.

I still suspect an issue in the matrix. Could be a shorted capacitor which most of the fast action switches have, see matrix schematic to see where the caps are. Usually pop bumpers, stand up targets and roll overs have them. If one is shorting, it will send current to other switches and reek havoc. If you find one that you think is bad, you can snip one of the leads to remove it from the circuit. The game will still play as normal for testing purposes. Just dab some solder on the lead to add it back if the cap is still good, otherwide snip the head of the cap off while leaving enough of the original leads to solder on the new one. The original caps on these games are notorious for going bad. They are .05 MFD but you can replace with a .047 since the .050 are getting scarce. Polarity doesn't matter in this case when wiring new ones in. Diodes are dirt cheap. This game uses 1N4148 and they are pennies a piece. Replace the same way as a cap but pay attention to the band on the diode before you remove. Camera helps.

The only other thing I can think of and it's a long shot, are the PIA's on the MPU. I'm pretty sure these control certain game functions. If it's an older MPU, try re-seating them. They are U10 and 11 IIRC. Also going by memory here, J3 on the MPU is where the switch lines come in. This area is prone to corrosion from battery and can cause problems. Isn't fun having a 35 year pin haha!

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