(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well


By Hellfire

6 years ago



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#51 5 years ago

Anyone sanded an EBD playfield down, and used a full graphic overlay? I have a playfield that is beyond my abilities to retouch.

Did you have to do anything to the surface, after installing the overlay?
How does it play?
Were you happy with the results?

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Here's what it takes to properly rebuild linear flippers from a 34 year old pinball machine. It might cost a little to do it right but it's worth it:

My guess is if you are having problems with the flipper sticking in the up position, you need to look at the coil sleeve, the plunger, the nylon bushing and the plunger stop. Another thing to look at is binding on the nylon bushing or if the bracket is cocked or bent. It sounds like something pretty-simple to me. I think I've had a problem like that once but was able to eliminate it after proper diagnosis.
I'm pretty anal about having all of my pins working 100% right down to every bulb.
If these flippers were as unreliable as they have been for you, EBD wouldn't have lasted a week on location because they got the crap played out of them back then.
I ought to know. As a kid in 1981 I fed EBD more quarters than I ever fed any other pinball machine.

This about makes me cry. Why would you put linear flippers back in. I put the older style plungers, links and paw and then go with the plastic lighter flipper. Though linear flippers work when they get hot and alittle wear boy are they sluggish. I can tell every time I am playing a game with these flippers especially alittle lower voltage like at a show. Painful....

All the collectors in the DFW area always ask me why do my classic Bally's play so well especially my 81's. I tell them outside of the full restoration its all about getting rid of the linear flipper.

I know we have debated this til the dogs come home but....painful.

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

This about makes me cry. Why would you put linear flippers back in. I put the older style plungers, links and paw and then go with the plastic lighter flipper. Though linear flippers work when they get hot and alittle wear boy are they sluggish. I can tell every time I am playing a game with these flippers especially alittle lower voltage like at a show. Painful....
All the collectors in the DFW area always ask me why do my classic Bally's play so well especially my 81's. I tell them outside of the full restoration its all about getting rid of the linear flipper.
I know we have debated this til the dogs come home but....painful.

Can you toss me the part numbers for the appropriate links and pawl flipper assemblies you use? Or what game would have the parts you use and I'll find them myself?

I have replaced *every* single part on my linear flippers, from the plates on up. There's not a single original part in there and they still are sluggish and stick in the up position.

Time for some link & pawl flippers...

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from Classic_Stern:

This about makes me cry. Why would you put linear flippers back in. I put the older style plungers, links and paw and then go with the plastic lighter flipper. Though linear flippers work when they get hot and alittle wear boy are they sluggish. I can tell every time I am playing a game with these flippers especially alittle lower voltage like at a show. Painful....
All the collectors in the DFW area always ask me why do my classic Bally's play so well especially my 81's. I tell them outside of the full restoration its all about getting rid of the linear flipper.
I know we have debated this til the dogs come home but....painful.

You must not do a complete job of rebuilding them after 40 years of use if you still have problems afterwards. When I do mine they are perfect and good for another 30 years of hard play. No further problems and best of all, the pinball machine performs exactly as it was designed to when new.

Now if you are less than 50 years old, it probably doesn't matter as much because you weren't playing these pins when they were brand-new and don't know any better. But to us purists who grew up with these machines from the day they came out until now it matters a lot and changing to the older style definitely changes the game play. The same goes for all the classic Bally pins that originally came equipped with linear flippers.

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

You must not do a complete job of rebuilding them after 40 years of use if you still have problems afterwards. When I do mine they are perfect and good for another 30 years of hard play. No further problems and best of all, the pinball machine performs exactly as it was designed to when new.
Now if you are less than 50 years old, it probably doesn't matter as much because you weren't playing these pins when they were brand-new and don't know any better. But to us purists who grew up with these machines from the day they came out until now it matters a lot and changing to the older style definitely changes the game play. The same goes for all the classic Bally pins that originally came equipped with linear flippers.

I do a lot of restorations.

I replaced every single piece on my linear flippers, *including the base plates* with NOS.

EBD was the pin that got me into the hobby and I played the hell out of it in 1981 so yes, I know how the original played.

Mine still stick in the up position. I even got PBR's special endstops that were supposed to prevent this. IMHO the linear flipper is a crappy design.

#56 5 years ago

In the club for now! Mine is only on loan from a good friend, im cleaning it up then keeping it long term to play it. Such a fun game, going to be hard to give it back!

I have a small restore thread going, Right now I have a quick unanswered question for you EBD experts.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fixing-up-an-eight-ball-deluxe-i-do-have-some-s#post-1862038

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from GaryMartin:

Can you toss me the part numbers for the appropriate links and pawl flipper assemblies you use? Or what game would have the parts you use and I'll find them myself?
I have replaced *every* single part on my linear flippers, from the plates on up. There's not a single original part in there and they still are sluggish and stick in the up position.
Time for some link & pawl flippers...

Linear mechs suck.

Switch to the normal mechs:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11

#58 5 years ago

That's not a restoration then. It's a modification and takes away the value of the machine to hard-core EBD aficionados like me. I would be able to tell the difference in gameplay right away.

It's like when guys claim they are "restoring" a classic car but take liberties with things that were not originally used on a car. To "restore" something means to return it to as close to like new condition as possible. The fewer deviations from absolute originality, the higher the level of restoration is.

When you say you are 'restoring" a playfield by clearcoating it, that's not really a restoration either. It's a modification because it changes the way the game plays afterwards.

I'm not opposed to all mods. I just don't have the issues you guys seem to have with linear flippers and prefer them to the older style in pins that originally came with them from the factory. I see zero value in switching to the older style and would never even consider it.

Both of my current EBD pins play exactly like they did new. I've had a lot of EBD pins over the years and never have any problems with the linear flippers after refurbishing them. I don't ever have any problem with the older style either when they are in good shape.

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

That's not a restoration then. It's a modification and takes away the value of the machine to hard-core EBD aficionados like me.

You can swap them out in 5 minutes if you wanted the crappy Linear flippers back.

It does not take away from the value of the game in any way.

Quoted from Gatecrasher:

When you say you are 'restoring" a playfield by clearcoating it, that's not really a restoration either. It's a modification because it changes the way the game plays afterwards.

That is true, clearcoating is an irreversible modification, unlike flipper mechs.

(although I have cleared playfields with genuine Diamondplate and lacquer for customers)

Quoted from Gatecrasher:

I just don't have the issues you guys seem to have with linear flippers and prefer them to the older style in pins that originally came with them from the factory. I see zero value in switching to the older style and would never even consider it.

That's what is great about owning your own game, you can set it up any way you like.

If I set up my EBD next to yours at a show, probably 90% of of hardcore players would say my flippers were better.

But even the 10% that preferred the clunk of the Linear would be totally right in their opinion.

No wrong answer here.

-

If you want to feel 2 different flipper mechs on the same game, Bally Truck Stop has Linear on the upper flippers, and Williams on the lower - straight from the factory.

Needless to say, no one at Williams was impressed by the Linear, and the decade of clunk was finally over.

Snap-and-Clunk.jpg

#60 5 years ago

I rid my games of the Linear junk. It was the best move I ever made.

#61 5 years ago

Does anyone know who sells the" printed circuit light boards with twist-in sockets" as used in the 3rd edition. Would anyone be interested in selling a set?
thanks

ebdb.jpg
#62 5 years ago
Quoted from pindel:

Does anyone know who sells the" printed circuit light boards with twist-in sockets" as used in the 3rd edition. Would anyone be interested in selling a set?
thanks

I don't think I've ever seen a set for sale except when someone was parting out a game.

They are such simple boards, you could etch them at home easily - the time sucker would be routing out the keyholes.....

Some EBD LE were made with individual lamp sockets, so if your boards are missing, you could go that route.

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That's what is great about owning your own game, you can set it up any way you like.
If I set up my EBD next to yours at a show, probably 90% of of hardcore players would say my flippers were better.

Snap-and-Clunk.jpg 113 KB

I'd be willing to bet money that a truly objective player wouldn't say the older style are better though. The style you like are newer. The coils also look bigger on your modified flippers vs the linears. It doesn't look like you are comparing apples to apples.

The reason linears are smoother than the earlier Bally style though is because of the guided plunger and the variable fulcrum of the arm. With the older style, the fulcrum is fixed and the plunger flops around more due to the arc of the arm. With the linear design the plungers are precisely guided through additional nylon bushings giving the mechanism a smoother and more true linear action inside the coil sleeve. The nylon bushing on the actuator arms acts as a self-lubricating variable fulcrum point that is constantly changing throughout the plunger movement as it floats in the slot in the plunger body. It's a more precise transmission of linear to rotary motion than the older style.

Now of course if you let the parts wear out and don't rebuild them properly or maintain them afterwards on your linear flippers, they won't have the precise movement they were originally designed to have. But if kept in like new condition, the performance is superior to the older style.

You can definitely tell the difference between the two designs and if I were to install a linear flipper in perfect operating condition on one side of a pin and an older style on the other, 99% of the objective users would prefer the linear.

#64 5 years ago
Quoted from pindel:

Does anyone know who sells the" printed circuit light boards with twist-in sockets" as used in the 3rd edition. Would anyone be interested in selling a set?
thanks

ebdb.jpg 115 KB

I've had a few of them over the years and have converted some 1981 EBD pins over to the twist lamp printed circuit boards. As you are aware, only the third and final 1983 "Classic Edition" Bally/Midway version used the PCB lamp sockets. I have even swapped complete 1983 wiring harnesses over to 1981 EBD pins.

In addition to the PCB lamps, the 1983 Midway EBD wiring harness had a few other improvements. The drop target assemblies all had Molex connectors making it easier to swap out the entire assemblies where the two earlier EBD versions had the horseshoe drop target coil arrays hard-wired to the wring harnesses.

Whenever I see someone parting out a 1983 EBD, I always buy the lamp socket PCBs and the entire wiring harnesses too if they aren't hacked up too bad. As a pinball parts manufacturer and a Ham Radio operator who has made printed circuit boards in the past, I have considered making these boards but have never gotten around to it. I have a lot of other projects going on.

Each EBD pin requires three PCBs for the playfield lamps. Here are two complete sets I have right now that I bought a few years ago. I'm really not looking to sell them though.

IMG_5338.JPG

Since they only made about 1,500 of the Midway machines, they are getting harder to find. You can still buy the twist sockets brand-new though and I have a bag full of them. Keep looking on eBay and continue to look around. You'll probably find some eventually.

My two current EBD pins still have the original individual 555 lamp sockets but I still keep these for future projects. They are awful nice. I don't know why one is a different color? It's an oddball I guess.

I also still have one complete 1983 wiring harness that could be used with one set of these to do the full Midway conversion. A few years ago I built a gawdy pimped-out 1981 EBD and added the complete 1983 wiring harness. It had an NOS clear-coated playfield and brand-new everything and a lot of chrome. I do both type of machines (hard-core restorations and modified pins) and am not totally opposed to mods. All of my EBD pins retain the linear flippers though. That is one thing I never change.

lol

#65 5 years ago

Like I said earlier, you like your Linear and that's fine, you don't have to defend your choice to the rest of us who hate them.

I was operating all those 80s Bally titles when they were brand new.

Everybody noticed the difference in flippers and did not like them.

It did not help that as Bally was switching over to the clunkfest of Linear, Williams came out with the ultra responsive single plate flippers on Firepower and Blackout.

EBD was probably Bally's last true pinball hit.

After that, their poor flipper design slowly dragged Bally under, as players much preferred the snappier performance of the Williams games. Finally in the late 80s, Williams put Bally out of their self inflicted misery.

#66 5 years ago

Hey experts, gameplay question. What are the DELUXE lights in the backglass for? I just put my friends EBD back together, and its all lit up except the "E" at the end and during attract mode it says something about go for deluxe.

Also, is there a setting to turn off speech in attract mode?

#67 5 years ago

If you get all 6 DELUXE lit, you win a free game . Adjustment #22.

I can't remember any way to turn off speech in attract mode, but there might be a newer ROM than when I routed them.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If you get all 6 DELUXE lit, you win a free game . Adjustment #22.

Thanks, I cant think of any other games where a feature like that carries over from game to game.

#69 5 years ago

I have all 3, only 2 in the picture the other is there. $30 US + postage ($25 - $40 I would think). I will include some spare bulb holders also.

001-665.JPG
#70 5 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Hey experts, gameplay question. What are the DELUXE lights in the backglass for? I just put my friends EBD back together, and its all lit up except the "E" at the end and during attract mode it says something about go for deluxe.
Also, is there a setting to turn off speech in attract mode?

Adjustment 22 (from pressing the self-test button on the coin door) controls how many games are awarded when you get all six DELUXE lights lit.

00 = no award
01 = one free game
02 = two free games
03 = three free games

Switch # 22 on the MPU is the control for how the D-E-L-U-X-E lights in the backbox are advanced.

>With switch 22 "on" - every time you complete D-E-L-U-X-E on the playfield the backbox will advance one letter.
>With switch 22 "off" - every time you complete D-E-L-U-X-E when "Special" is lit the backbox will advance one letter.

All you have to remember is "22" for both.

I remember when EBD was new and we figured out what the D-E-L-U-X-E lights on the backbox meant, we used to love walking into an arcade and finding a EBD machine sitting there with "D-E-L-U-X" lit. We would fight over who got to put their quarter in first.

Most operators had them set up with switch 22 turned "on" and self-test adjustment 22 set to "03" which were the most-liberal settings. That's the way I have all my EBD pins set up too.

#71 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

EBD was probably Bally's last true pinball hit.
After that, their poor flipper design slowly dragged Bally under, as players much preferred the snappier performance of the Williams games. Finally in the late 80s, Williams put Bally out of their self inflicted misery.

Lol I think there's a little more to the story of Bally's demise than that. The writing was on the wall for commercial pinball as a growth industry after 1982 and Bally wanted out. The flipper design wasn't a factor as far as the demise of pinball goes. Bally would have been gone no matter what flipper design they used.

As far as I'm concerned, EBD was everyone's last big pinball "hit". There were later pins that had more units produced but none that ever rose to the level of outright fanatical popularity of EBD. At least not in my book.

I would never change the linear flippers because they work fantastic for me (and I don't mind the noise). It's part of the game. It is loud with the playfield up though. So I guess you change out the flippers in your old EM pins too? I wouldn't do that either even though the newer style you prefer would definitely be stronger.

#72 5 years ago

OOoooo 8bd club! I'm a member but, just barely and I need some help. Mine is the original cab. Near perfect backglass. Cabinet is in decent shape. Got some CPR plastics from Gene at a show. The problem is the PF is in terrible shape. It has mylar and the majority of the PF was saved but, the paint is really flaky so there's no chance of taking that mylar off without taking a bunch of paint with it. I was just going to clean it up and play on it but the PF is in really bad shape. You can rub paint off with your finger! I've been trying to hunt down a overlay or a repro PF but, no luck. I want to do a full resto on this one but, until I can get a PF I'm stuck. Its such a great game and this one deserves to be revived from the dead. If anyone can help me find or has a PF/overlay they want to get rid of I'd appreciate it greatly!!

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

Anyone sanded an EBD playfield down, and used a full graphic overlay? I have a playfield that is beyond my abilities to retouch.
Did you have to do anything to the surface, after installing the overlay?
How does it play?
Were you happy with the results?

I dont have any experience with overlays but, I've heard its like playing a game with full mylar. There's a lot of negative review from people that have used overlays but, I think most of them didn't prepare their pf properly and just stuck the overlay on top of their wrecked PF. I would think that if you started with a fully sanded, level and clean surface you'd be ok. If I find one I think I'm going to sand first, clear and then apply the overlay to the roughed up clear. I cant seem to find anyone selling them or making them anymore so if you find them let me know

#74 5 years ago

Check out Chipmunk Chet...

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

Anyone sanded an EBD playfield down, and used a full graphic overlay? I have a playfield that is beyond my abilities to retouch.
Did you have to do anything to the surface, after installing the overlay?
How does it play?
Were you happy with the results?

Quoted from Winball_Pizard:

I dont have any experience with overlays but, I've heard its like playing a game with full mylar. There's a lot of negative review from people that have used overlays but, I think most of them didn't prepare their pf properly and just stuck the overlay on top of their wrecked PF. I would think that if you started with a fully sanded, level and clean surface you'd be ok. If I find one I think I'm going to sand first, clear and then apply the overlay to the roughed up clear. I cant seem to find anyone selling them or making them anymore so if you find them let me know

^^^^ This is the way to do it. I installed an Arcadegrafix overlay on mine (which is the least desirable overlay mainly because they printed the color of the inserts on the overlay instead of leaving them clear so they would often look dim when lit.) Sand the artwork off, apply a few layers of clear, doesn't matter what kind since you won't see it anyway, rough it up a little then apply the overlay with a generous amount of dishsoap and water spray.

I felt the game played really well and this brand of overlay had a very durable playing surface that didn't need additional protection. But I have played one where the overlay was installed over the old artwork and it really messes with ball physics because it creates air pockets where the overlay doesn't adhere to the playfield.

#76 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

So I guess you change out the flippers in your old EM pins too?

I rebuild all EM flipper mechs, of course.

I use nylon sleeves instead of the metal ones on the coils, and I use the superior Williams EOS switches with the little helper spring leaf (#03-7811) whenever possible.

Otherwise, it's a standard rebuild.

#77 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

I would never change the linear flippers because they work fantastic for me

Way back in the day, a company called WICO had mentioned that they were going to fix some of the flaws in the crappy Linear system.

They were going to produce a Linear plunger with a hollowed out guide tip to save weight (and thus restore some speed and power to the mech).

They were going to cleanly machine the notch in the plunger without tooling chatter marks that eat the Nylon so fast.

They were going to use 2 disks that spun on the pawl so that wear would be evenly distributed.

And a few other improvements that I can't remember 30 years latter.

IDK if they ever came out with the kit (I just checked the last catalog I have from them and it's not in there)j, or if Bally put a stop to them at some point.

Now that the patents have long run out, YOU could make an improved Linear rebuild kit. Maybe if the Linear flippers had some jisim in them, people would like them.

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I have all 3, only 2 in the picture the other is there. $30 US + postage ($25 - $40 I would think). I will include some spare bulb holders

Is this still available? Would like to buy it all. Shipping to PA, 15068 or to me in Australia, whichever is easier for you.

#79 5 years ago

Yes still available. I can box & check out the postage to PA on Tuesday.

#80 5 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

I've had a few of them over the years and have converted some 1981 EBD pins over to the twist lamp printed circuit boards. As you are aware, only the third and final 1983 "Classic Edition" Bally/Midway version used the PCB lamp sockets. I have even swapped complete 1983 wiring harnesses over to 1981 EBD pins.

Actually, the 1982 EBD LE has PCB lamp sockets in a portion of the production, too. Not sure at what point they changed from sockets to PCBs, but I have run across a number of them.

#81 5 years ago

I want to be a member of this club in the worst way.

#82 5 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Actually, the 1982 EBD LE has PCB lamp sockets in a portion of the production, too. Not sure at what point they changed from sockets to PCBs, but I have run across a number of them.

Yes you are correct. I have seen a few of the LEs with the lamp PCBs too. Not too many though.

It must have happened towards the end of the production run. It would be interesting to know at what serial number they started putting them in?

#83 5 years ago

Anyone know where I can get a replacement plastic for the upper right above the 8 ball? Marco, Bay Area and Planetary are all out. I greatly appreciate any leads.

#84 5 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes still available. I can box & check out the postage to PA on Tuesday.

Thanks John. Would prefer shipping to Australia if possible. Is this wiring loom and parts from the last of the EBD versions, the 1983 "Classic Edition" Bally/Midway?

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from Winball_Pizard:

I dont have any experience with overlays but, I've heard its like playing a game with full mylar. There's a lot of negative review from people that have used overlays but, I think most of them didn't prepare their pf properly and just stuck the overlay on top of their wrecked PF. I would think that if you started with a fully sanded, level and clean surface you'd be ok. If I find one I think I'm going to sand first, clear and then apply the overlay to the roughed up clear. I cant seem to find anyone selling them or making them anymore so if you find them let me know

Herb at fabfan.com says he has EBD overlays. He quoted me $250, shipping included.

I was unsure about the quality of the finished product.

#87 5 years ago

How did you go with the shipping quote John?

#88 5 years ago

Post Office $20 air to PA, USA. I need Australia info for a quote.

#89 5 years ago

Count me in! Here's a pic of my '81 garage find. She's an ugly project.... but someday.....
~Steveo

photo-1.jpg
#90 5 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Post Office $20 air to PA, USA. I need Australia info for a quote.

Thanks. PM sent.

#91 5 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

Herb at fabfan.com says he has EBD overlays. He quoted me $250, shipping included.
I was unsure about the quality of the finished product.

Got in touch with Herb and I'm going to give this a shot. We'll see if it turns out but, its going to be better than my planked flaked mess of a PF I have now

#92 5 years ago
Quoted from Winball_Pizard:

Got in touch with Herb and I'm going to give this a shot. We'll see if it turns out but, its going to be better than my planked flaked mess of a PF I have now

Are you going to do it yourself? If so, please document what you do with photos.

I am really interested in how it turns out.

#93 5 years ago

My parts are on route to Australia.

#94 5 years ago

Anyone have a parts list or diagram for the pop bumpers and all the non-flipper coil plungers and sleeves?

I need to totally rebuild my pops and replace every coil plunger and sleeve.

#96 5 years ago

Hey Vid any advice on applying a overlay? I know you've covered nearly ever other subject known to man!

#97 5 years ago
Quoted from Winball_Pizard:

Hey Vid any advice on applying a overlay? I know you've covered nearly ever other subject known to man!

Sorry, I've never used one on a game.

#98 5 years ago
Quoted from Winball_Pizard:

Hey Vid any advice on applying a overlay? I know you've covered nearly ever other subject known to man!

It's ALL in the prep. Sand all the artwork off, I think I used 80, then 120, then 220 grit. Make sure inserts are flush, so either reseat, sand off if high, or level with clear if low. Fix any problems with the wood if they will be under the overlay, like screws run through the wood from the underside in the playing area. Then put down two or three coats of clear, doesn't matter what kind, you just want to seal the wood. Go over it once more with 600 grit and clean it with naptha. If you don't do these steps your overlay surface will be uneven, have air pockets underneath where it didn't adhere to the playfield, and cause all kinds of weird and undesirable ball physics.

When you apply the overlay, spray the playfield with a liberal amount of water/dish soap solution. I'm talking a lot here...like a lake. If you've ever put a screen protector on a tablet you know what I'm talking about. Much more difficult than a little 4" phone screen. The clear will protect the wood and you're going to squeegee it out anyway so spray away. Lay down the overlay and slide it around to align it, then squeegee from the center out to each edge.

Clearcoating afterwards is personal preference I think. I used an Arcade Grafix overlay which had a very durable surface and didn't need any sort of protection, but I can't speak for Fab Fantasies so maybe someone else can chime in here.

#99 5 years ago

OK, since this is also a restorations thread, I'll hit you all up for my question.

Here is a close up of my playfield. It has these little cracks all over the playfield. The paint is about 95% there, but the wear areas are not from the cracking. In other words, the cracks in the paint are solid, and not coming off the playfield.

What can be done about this? I assume the cracks will always be there, so it there a way to seal everything as is? If so, should retouching be done before any sealing?

cracking.jpg
#100 5 years ago

Magic eraser to clean the ball swirls and cracks, then retouch and clear. Good enough for a solid player.

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