(Topic ID: 66114)

Eight Ball Deluxe Owner Club & Restorations Guests Welcome As Well

By Hellfire

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by radial_head
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#5401 4 months ago

That's the first thing you should have done when you bought the machine. Replace ALL the connectors with brand-new. Every single one of them!

Otherwise you'll be fighting a similar issue later. Replace them all up front and you'll get another 30 years out of them before having to worry again.

#5402 4 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

That's the first thing you should have done when you bought the machine. Replace ALL the connectors with brand-new. Every single one of them!

The connector was wired wrong. Simply replacing it would not have fixed the issue.

1 week later
#5403 4 months ago

Most common EASY FIX on a previously working EBD. Just reseat all the connectors in the back box. I spent hours trying to troubleshoot why the ball would not eject into the shooter lane sometimes/then all the time and this was the fix. I replaced the diode on the ball trough switch and my buddy was saying to change the switch as well but I did not have a spare and anyway, the sound was registering, just not ejecting. He said it may also be the driver transistor for the kicker or just a connector. Other problems like lights not working were also fixed by reseating the connectors on a previous date.

#5404 4 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

The connector was wired wrong. Simply replacing it would not have fixed the issue.

That was this time. It was something obvious. Some idiot hooked it up wrong but unless you replace all those crappy 40+ year crimp-on connectors now, you are virtually guaranteed to be revisiting a similar issue that is not as obvious and will have you scratching your head and pissing into the wind trying to diagnose it.

It's the 1st step of properly restoring a pinball machine and probably the #1 most-important if you want them to perform 100% reliably going forward. All of the machines I restore get all-new connectors right off the bat whether it is working properly or not. Then you won't have to fool with it again, at least for another few decades.

#5405 4 months ago

This was not “obvious”. Obvious is something you glance at and go “ah I see it”. This one took diagnosing a problem (thanks again @quench), deeper review of the schematic, checking photos of other connectors to make sure I was reading the schematic correctly (not my forte), counting pin numbers, and THEN I got to say “ah I see it”.

I have repinned thousands of connections at this point. I agree it’s a worthwhile endeavor most of the time and I DO repin most games that pass through my hands. To Quench’s point, I don’t necessarily sit there and double check the schematics for the pin locations when I repin (unless the connector is damaged or looks tampered with). Especially on Bally’s where it’s pretty obvious if it’s an original connector or not. I snip the wire, crimp the connector, and insert into the new housing in the same location.

On this one, the pins were holding very firm, visually very clean, good continuity from pin to wire end via multimeter check, and on a board that is rarely unplugged. It’s the unplugging and plugging that raises the need to repin… or general corrosion, filth, etc, which wasn’t present on this game. I’m confident it would not have been necessary to repin this specific connector if someone hadn’t shown up drunk in 1982.

#5406 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

This was not “obvious”. Obvious is something you glance at and go “ah I see it”. This one took diagnosing a problem (thanks again Quench), deeper review of the schematic, checking photos of other connectors to make sure I was reading the schematic correctly (not my forte), counting pin numbers, and THEN I got to say “ah I see it”.
I have repinned thousands of connections at this point. I agree it’s a worthwhile endeavor most of the time and I DO repin most games that pass through my hands. To Quench’s point, I don’t necessarily sit there and double check the schematics for the pin locations when I repin (unless the connector is damaged or looks tampered with). Especially on Bally’s where it’s pretty obvious if it’s an original connector or not. I snip the wire, crimp the connector, and insert into the new housing in the same location.
On this one, the pins were holding very firm, visually very clean, good continuity from pin to wire end via multimeter check, and on a board that is rarely unplugged. It’s the unplugging and plugging that raises the need to repin… or general corrosion, filth, etc, which wasn’t present on this game. I’m confident it would not have been necessary to repin this specific connector if someone hadn’t shown up drunk in 1982.

I've done some repinning on three of my games, but how many connector pins I did on each partly depended on the condition of the original connectors/pins. If one has clean pins that still hold nice and tight (because it hasn't been removed 100 times) I just let it be. Or looking down into the connector you might see one or more pins have obviously lost a lot of their springiness and are laying down, then I just did the whole connector. All depends on what kind of life the game had.

#5407 4 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

It was something obvious. Some idiot hooked it up wrong

Obvious? We look forward to you stepping up during the diagnosis / fault finding phase in future. We could always use more tech help.

Quoted from Gatecrasher:

It's the 1st step of properly restoring a pinball machine and probably the #1 most-important if you want them to perform 100% reliably going forward. All of the machines I restore get all-new connectors right off the bat whether it is working properly or not. Then you won't have to fool with it again, at least for another few decades.

Some of my games have never had connectors redone other than burnt ones at rectifier boards. I use a few of these games as test beds for boards I repair and these have gone through a high level of connector insertions and still don't show any problems..

I treat re-terminating connectors on a game by game basis.

#5408 4 months ago

Occasionally on my Eight Ball Deluxe when the ball is sent back up to the very top area it will bounce off the upper wire gate and go past the gate into the 'collect bonus' saucer. The wire gate is not parallel with the playfield as hopefully shown in the picture. Is this normal? It seems like something might be assembled wrong. Any help figuring this out is appreciated! Thanks.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

1 week later
#5409 4 months ago

That should not happen. Someone may have replaced the gate with a wireform that is too thin or not properly bent.

#5410 4 months ago
Quoted from Johnnybee:

Occasionally on my Eight Ball Deluxe when the ball is sent back up to the very top area it will bounce off the upper wire gate and go past the gate into the 'collect bonus' saucer. The wire gate is not parallel with the playfield as hopefully shown in the picture. Is this normal? It seems like something might be assembled wrong. Any help figuring this out is appreciated! Thanks.
[quoted image]

I think that I’ve seen the same thing happen (rarely) on our game.

Your gate looks to be set up the same way as ours, with the bracket over the plastic. I wonder if it’s supposed to be below the plastic.

Dave

#5411 4 months ago

I thought I’d buttoned this one up and then the 1/9 auto-drop coil started locking on. Didn’t have my multimeter handy but the transistor on board doesn’t look fried. Preemptively pulled the drop bank to test the diode before I go get my DMM and noticed it also has a zenner diode because of the solenoid aux board. I don’t have any of those on hand and it looks like a tight fit for me to cut and test. What is my most likely culprit in that coil locking on? Diode or transistor?

IMG_3254 (resized).jpegIMG_3254 (resized).jpeg
#5412 4 months ago

It is not a Zener diode it's just a glass envelope package. You can use a 4004 here.

#5413 4 months ago

Ah, one day I'll maybe understand all this stuff. Thanks!

#5414 4 months ago

Glass diodes were sometimes cheaper than plastic ones. Bally bought them a million at a time. Vendors often had too many of one variety and would give a discount to get rid of them.

#5415 4 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Ah, one day I'll maybe understand all this stuff.

You'll sometimes come across solenoid driver boards that have all glass 1N4004 diodes instead of plastic type.

Quoted from play_pinball:

What is my most likely culprit in that coil locking on? Diode or transistor?

When you say started locking on, do you mean sometimes at power on or during a game, or do you mean suddenly happened once then always locks on since and blows the playfield fuse?

#5416 4 months ago

Are those the right coils. Should they be 3 lugs?

#5417 4 months ago
Quoted from BobLangelius:

Are those the right coils. Should they be 3 lugs?

Those 2 yep. Solenoid expanded.

#5418 4 months ago

It is locking on as soon as I power up the game. I tested the diodes this morning (both good) but got pulled away for my rEaL jOb before I could test the transistor. The board looks nice and clean, and it’s been updated with Vid’s recommendations.

#5419 3 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Obvious? We look forward to you stepping up during the diagnosis / fault finding phase in future. We could always use more tech help.

Well the wires are color-coded and pretty-easy to tell if someone placed one in the wrong connector pin. All you need are your eyeballs to diagnose that problem.

Quoted from Quench:

Some of my games have never had connectors redone other than burnt ones at rectifier boards. I use a few of these games as test beds for boards I repair and these have gone through a high level of connector insertions and still don't show any problems.
I treat re-terminating connectors on a game by game basis.

Yeah I bet those 40+ year old mass-terminated connectors on your pins are awesome. I guess it's all in what you want for your pins. I replace all of mine as part of a normal restoration. Can you get by without doing it? Yeah but the chances are you will eventually be revisiting connector-related issues in the future if you plan to keep the game.

I have a '65 Chevy too and replaced the entire wiring harness with new as part of the total show "restoration". Call me foolish if you like but all my electrical gremlins are gone. I probably could have gotten by just replacing a few lamp sockets and a couple hacked wires but decided to replace everything with new. It cost me $400.

I'm "anal" like that. lol

All of my pins have brand-new connectors and are rock-solid in that aspect. Every 40+ year old pin I've ever owned was better-off for it, including my cherry HUO EBD which was probably as close to not needing them as any from the era I have seen.

On my older SS pins, I replace all of the bayonet lamp sockets with new too. They almost always need it.

IMG_2781 (resized).JPGIMG_2781 (resized).JPG
#5420 3 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Well the wires are color-coded and pretty-easy to tell if someone placed one in the wrong connector pin. All you need are your eyeballs to diagnose that problem.

Yeah I bet those 40+ year old mass-terminated connectors on your pins are awesome. I guess it's all in what you want for your pins. I replace all of mine as part of a normal restoration. Can you get by without doing it? Yeah but the chances are you will eventually be revisiting connector-related issues in the future if you plan to keep the game.
I have a '65 Chevy too and replaced the entire wiring harness with new as part of the total show "restoration". Call me foolish if you like but all my electrical gremlins are gone. I probably could have gotten by just replacing a few lamp sockets and a couple hacked wires but decided to replace everything with new. It cost me $400.
I'm "anal" like that. lol
All of my pins have brand-new connectors and are rock-solid in that aspect. Every 40+ year old pin I've ever owned was better-off for it, including my cherry HUO EBD which was probably as close to not needing them as any from the era I have seen.
On my older SS pins, I replace all of the bayonet lamp sockets with new too. They almost always need it.[quoted image]

What a beautiful picture!!

#5421 3 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

It is locking on as soon as I power up the game. I tested the diodes this morning (both good) but got pulled away for my rEaL jOb before I could test the transistor. The board looks nice and clean, and it’s been updated with Vid’s recommendations.

Short in the lower leg of the transistor on the board. Swapped out Q13 and it works!

#5422 3 months ago

.

#5423 3 months ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Well the wires are color-coded and pretty-easy to tell if someone placed one in the wrong connector pin.

Only if you know what you're looking for though. Maybe someone did re-terminate that connector at some point and accidentally caused the problem - I've seen enough new issues created by people "bulletproofing" their working games only to create new faults from poor work. Not everyone has the skill or patience to do it properly.

Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Yeah but the chances are you will eventually be revisiting connector-related issues in the future if you plan to keep the game.

Connector related issues take me only a few minutes to diagnose and repair. I'm still way ahead by not having spent a day re-terminating every connector that didn't need it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying connectors should never be replaced. I just redid them all in a Supersonic I worked on a few weeks ago and it was clear that they were all in really bad shape. A Stern Ali I did at the beginning of the year had half the hook ends on the 0.1" crimp terminals broken - I've never seen so many bad crimp terminals in one game. But these were both extreme cases of games that were poorly stored for decades while not necessarily showing it cosmetically. Then just as important are the pin headers which a lot of people skip because of not having the soldering skills. I must admit though that I always replace the 0.1" pin headers on all boards because I'm a board guy and it's rare that I find them in acceptable condition. The 0.1" crimp terminals in a decently stored game fare much better.

Again, case by case basis.

1 week later
#5424 3 months ago

Edit: nevermind I’m a dummy

#5425 3 months ago

I could use some help regarding the anti-flicker LED kits from Comet/Siegecraft electronics. I cannot figure out where this terminal goes for the auxiliary boards. In the instructions it says there should be an open spot in the wiring harness on the MA-07 set on the main adapters, but there isn’t one on my set.

IMG_3477 (resized).jpegIMG_3477 (resized).jpeg
#5426 3 months ago
Quoted from mrossman5:

I could use some help regarding the anti-flicker LED kits from Comet/Siegecraft electronics. I cannot figure out where this terminal goes for the auxiliary boards. In the instructions it says there should be an open spot in the wiring harness on the MA-07 set on the main adapters, but there isn’t one on my set.
[quoted image]

From LED lamp boards I have worked on, the AUX. buss wire needs to be attached to the
+6volt lamp buss [blue 18awg. wire].

#5427 3 months ago
Quoted from mrossman5:

I cannot figure out where this terminal goes for the auxiliary boards.

These are instruction for another board, but its the same with your board:

https://allteksystems.com/apps/help-center#hc-how-do-i-attach-the-jumper-wire-for-the-ledlamp-driver-or-aux-lamp-driver-boards-and-why-do-i-need-this-wire-connected

1 week later
#5428 3 months ago

This is my used and worn original EBD playfield from my 1984 EBD. This was replaced with an IPB by DMacy (Thanks DMacy!) in my serial #650 1984 EBD.

Thanks for reading, mk

20231126_211102 (resized).jpg20231126_211102 (resized).jpg
#5429 3 months ago
Quoted from Johnnybee:

Occasionally on my Eight Ball Deluxe when the ball is sent back up to the very top area it will bounce off the upper wire gate and go past the gate into the 'collect bonus' saucer. The wire gate is not parallel with the playfield as hopefully shown in the picture. Is this normal? It seems like something might be assembled wrong. Any help figuring this out is appreciated! Thanks.
[quoted image]

Place the gate under the plastic. It is setting too high. You could also take 1/8” off the top of the post with a sander or grinder to make it set lower. You can see the wire part of the gate is almost as high as the rubber on the post.

#5430 3 months ago

Question … Lower left flipper works fine but upper left flipper coil not pulling in , all wiring looks fine and I reflowed the connection. Any suggestions Thanks

#5431 3 months ago
Quoted from Jimmyd044:

Question … Lower left flipper works fine but upper left flipper coil not pulling in , all wiring looks fine and I reflowed the connection. Any suggestions Thanks

Lower left flipper has a secondary switch on the end of stroke switch stack.
a) This secondary switch activates the upper flipper so make sure it's making good contact when the lower flipper activates.
b) Make sure the end of stroke switch on the upper flipper is making good contact when the flipper is down.

#5432 88 days ago

mrossman5

Checking here too, glad I found this thread.

Did you receive my emails about the wiring connection on the LED boards? I did reply to both of your attempts to reach me, and also had Comet email you my response as well.

-Hans

#5433 84 days ago

Can anyone with the LE cabinet version tell me what the height of the cabinet is with the backbox removed? I'm looking at picking one up and wanna be sure that it'll fit inside my car.

#5434 83 days ago
Quoted from Atari1977:

Can anyone with the LE cabinet version tell me what the height of the cabinet is with the backbox removed? I'm looking at picking one up and wanna be sure that it'll fit inside my car.

29 inches

#5435 82 days ago

The scratch build is coming along nicely...

Mechs have been cleaned and rebuilt, T-nuts installed, rails tomorrow. Just waiting on a few coils from PBR to complete the mechs.

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#5436 78 days ago

Rails and left lane guide installed. Time to light and populate! Big thanks to ibis for taking up the helm on rails. They fit well and look terrific! I will be back for more.

Shawn

PFwRails (resized).jpegPFwRails (resized).jpeg
#5437 75 days ago

They look awesome Shawn! Im glad you like them! Im actually making another set for someone Monday! Your restore is coming along, looking forward to seeing the finished product!

#5438 75 days ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Rails and left lane guide installed. Time to light and populate! Big thanks to ibis for taking up the helm on rails. They fit well and look terrific! I will be back for more.
Shawn
[quoted image]

That's a lot of "stuff" hanging over that beautiful playfield. I'd hate to see one of those crimpers, that big wrench, or anything else accidentally fall on it!

#5439 74 days ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

I'd hate to see one of those crimpers, that big wrench, or anything else accidentally fall on it!

Me too! LOL Just a quick photo op after installing the rails. It normally sits in the rotisserie...

Pinside_forum_7921326_0 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_7921326_0 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_7921326_1 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_7921326_1 (resized).jpg
#5440 74 days ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Me too! LOL Just a quick photo op after installing the rails. It normally sits in the rotisserie...[quoted image][quoted image]

Looks so good. Is this for your personal collection?

#5441 74 days ago

It looks like it could use two of my reproduction parts...

Packaging (resized).JPGPackaging (resized).JPG
#5442 74 days ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

It looks like it could use two of my reproduction parts...[quoted image]

I bought a half dozen from you a few years ago. Still hoarding them for projects like this!

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5443 74 days ago
Quoted from friscopinball:

Looks so good. Is this for your personal collection?

Oh yes. Not selling this one. Also got this to add…

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#5444 74 days ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Oh yes. Not selling this one. Also got this to add…
[quoted image]

Where did you get the apron if I may ask?

#5445 73 days ago

The apron was purchased from a pair of Pinsiders that was reproducing them under license. They are no longer in business and any attempts to resurrect it have failed. Sucks for us.

Shawn

#5446 73 days ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

The apron was purchased from a pair of Pinsiders that was reproducing them under license. They are no longer in business and any attempts to resurrect it have failed. Sucks for us.
Shawn

I knew that would be the case and said so back then in a couple threads on Pinside. I had plans to make them too. Even had the CAD drawing and quoted all the tooling to make them exactly as the originals. Also approached the artwork license holders and was ready to make the deal when the other dudes announced they were going to make them. I had no idea they were working on them. So I scrapped the project on my end because there was no sense competing with something like that. It was also disappointing the the owners of the copyrighted artwork never said a thing to me about another party approaching them for the same thing as I was.

I've been making pinball parts for over 20 years now and would still been making the aprons too, but not now. It's not because of the actual stamped part. It's because of the artwork copyright holder. They don't act like they want to do business and I'm not going to kiss their ass for them to make money on their investment. So that's a part you may never see reproduced again unless someone else does it.

The actual apron is not under patent protection or anything. You can make them all you want. It's the artwork that is still under copyright protection.

End of story.

#5447 73 days ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

the owners of the copyrighted artwork

Isn't the Bally logo the only item on the apron that is under trademark protection?

Leave that area blank and I'm sure clever pinsiders could create waterside decals of the logo.

#5448 73 days ago

You can do that now with OEM pieces. Strip them and glue the decals on them. Making blanks to sell to the public is a lot less lucrative and marketable than selling complely finished aprons. Not worth the time or investment to me.

#5449 73 days ago

It’s a shame they stopped making them. Color was different from the original but it’s a really nice item. For a while I was disappointed that the color was off but I actually prefer it now. The gold stripes are really nice. Heavier gauge metal than the original and threads for the screws. I’m not sure if the original had that.

IMG_3720 (resized).jpegIMG_3720 (resized).jpeg

#5450 73 days ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Heavier gauge metal than the original and threads for the screws. I’m not sure if the original had that.

The threads were the icing on the cake. Originals either had a hole for a sheet metal screw or one of those automotive style metal clips like you find on cars.

image0 (resized).jpegimage0 (resized).jpegimage1 (resized).jpegimage1 (resized).jpeg
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