(Topic ID: 319445)

Eight Ball Deluxe LE- I'll start with my display problems I guess...

By DandyLion

1 year ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by DandyLion
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#1 1 year ago

Hi Everyone- picked up a EBD LE which looks to be a lot more of a project than I'd been hankering for, but I'm sure it will build my character real good.

And I'm pretty new at this, I am highly likely to annoy...

First effort was to find the reason for having no background sound- but to do this I need to have a working display to see the test audit info. So this is really about the display problems I'm having.

The display is semi functional- as it scrolls through the self-test though the segments are all wiggly-like, mis-displaying certain digits, apparently in the wrong order? The third digit (the hundreds digit) is missing. And at '8' and '9' the segments pretty much all disappear. Pics below to sort of indicate this.

The ball in play segment is the one I need to see the test audit number '18'. But after scrolling through the self-tests the displays all disappear though anyway so I can't tell if/when it gets to '18' which is what I need to reset the background sound.

I also hear the solenoid expander clicking intermittently (not consistently) as it progresses through the display test.
I reconnected the pins for the displays with some changes, but no real improvement.

Generally the game works: game boot-up seems fine with 7 LED flashes on MPU. S&T sound test seems fine for speech. Speech is fine during gameplay. I even hear that background sound at boot-up. But there is no background sound during gameplay, or other proper sounds. The display is jiggly though during gameplay, as the self-test might predict.

I have video showing this from '11111111' upward. Note '6's and '7's in the '2' and '3' spots respectively. Also, there is no '9' to show.

Thanks! For anything!

#2 1 year ago

At the MPU board, wiggle the J1 connector during display test and see if the numbers come up properly.
There are four signals from the MPU board to the displays that are used to select numbers at the displays.
The signal that's causing issues is a binary one that adds 4 to the numbers - you will notice the bad numbers are off by 4. This is pin 27 of MPU connector J1 (yellow-black wire).

The missing 100's digit is controlled by the MPU connector J1 pin 3 signal (yellow wire).

You have two potential issues with that J1 connector so it probably needs to be reterminated.

#3 1 year ago

Thanks Quench, interesting and specific info.

Wiggling J1 didn't really produce any difference in performance. A quick look at both header and connectors for J1 didn't reveal anything obvious.
I will have a closer look at Pins 3 and 27 though, thanks.

#4 1 year ago

This game is notorious for the rats nest of wires and connectors behind the display panel. You may have to unplug all of that and the displays and work with one known good display.

#5 1 year ago

For the displays, I would start with the wiring as people have mentioned. If you have a spare altec mpu board I would throw it in just to rule out the MPU.

The sound issue may be simply an operator selection issue. Go into the manual. Under the self test / operator selectable sections there is an operator selection for sounds. I think it is operator selection number 18. The operator selects 01,02 or 03 for the sounds. depending on what number you insert will determine how much sound is used during gameplay. The manual explains better.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from sulli10:

For the displays, I would start with the wiring as people have mentioned. If you have a spare altec mpu board I would throw it in just to rule out the MPU.
The sound issue may be simply an operator selection issue. Go into the manual. Under the self test / operator selectable sections there is an operator selection for sounds. I think it is operator selection number 18. The operator selects 01,02 or 03 for the sounds. depending on what number you insert will determine how much sound is used during gameplay. The manual explains better.

Yes, there are 4 different sound settings ("sounds", "chimes", "sounds with background", and "chimes with background").
You may have one of the "no background" types enabled.

#7 1 year ago

Thanks for these guys- it's a catch-22 though with the Sound troubleshooting, in that my displays don't show properly. The '18' doesn't come up as a selection in the self-test. In fact, after the 'stuck switch' self-test (which I think comes with 5 hits on the red self-test switch), nothing displays at all. I've hit the red button a few dozen times to see if something comes further along, but no.

I have some Deoxit on order, when it comes I think I'll give some careful treatment to the related pins and see if things change, before I move on to other ideas. Unless someone has one for me now lol.

#8 1 year ago

Actually noticing now that the lamp adjacent to the Solenoid Expander Board isn't lighting during any of the tests. I checked the lamp itself and it is still functional. I'm still not sure what the SEBs role is, but I wonder if this has anything to do with these problems.

I love that I have zero deadlines on any repair in this project. It's fun that way, not like real life lol.

#9 1 year ago

The solenoid expander enables the game to have more solenoids than drivers for them. So less frequently used solenoids like the 8 ball reset, the 1/2 auto drop, the saucer, the outhole, can all be on the 'expanded' side. So the relay on the SEB clicks over to the other path for those solenoids when they need to be fired; it's controlled by a lamp. Since the opto isolator chip on the SEB doesn't provide enough of a load for the SCR on the lamp board to reliably turn on, the bulb is wired in parallel with it, so it will always turn on when needed. This is why leaving the bulb out or putting a very low current draw LED in there instead will either make the SEB not work at all, or work intermittently.

Acquiring a project-y bally/stern game? Do it in the order pinwiki recommends. Rectifier board, get solid. Solenoid driver board, get solid. MPU board, get solid. Then worry about ancillary stuff like sound and displays. Knowing that your background sound works/doesn't work at this point isn't really helpful in getting anything else going.

Also check all the solenoid expanded coils and make sure they all have 2 diodes on them. If one is missing sometimes many solenoids try to fire at once.

#10 1 year ago

Q55 on your lamp driver board (J3-11 blue wire) is responsible for lighting the bulb needed to work the expander board.

you mention the bulb not lighting during test, what lamp driver board do you have? original or after market for running LED's?

do you have a standard bulb in the socket or a LED?

#11 1 year ago

Slochar- thanks for the suggestion in logical-order troubleshooting. I will follow this and start my analysis with a look at the rectifier board.

Rikoshay- yes, the SEB lamp is a standard 555 bulb incandescent. The boards all look original, including the lamp driver board. No LEDs in this game as it is still in its original (rough) condition.

#12 1 year ago

are you familiar with your lamp driver board?

do you have a multi meter and able to test Q55 with the meter on diode test?

Q55 is a SCR, larger in size, like a rectangle as opposed to the smaller components being transistors.

#13 1 year ago

Rikoshay- yes, thanks for that, I'll check that in the morning.

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