(Topic ID: 107213)

Eight ball deluxe issues


By beauimpala

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 36 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by policano
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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Screen Shot 2014-12-02 at 11.14.37 pm.png
EBDLE A3-J2 (third).jpg
EBDLE A3-J2 (second).jpg
EBDLE A3-J2 (first).jpg
Bally Codes.PNG
Test-597.PNG

#1 5 years ago

Couple of issues that need some help with. First one is when a game is started the 2 ball drop target falls, and the ball trough kicker clicks, but is not strong enough to fire the ball over to the shooter lane. It is as free as a bird. No binding whatsoever. Also the coil that kicks out the ball in the saucer shot is extremely weak too. No binding. Free movement. It's gets a pulse to move and it will, but not enough to kick the ball out.
Problem 2: I'm only getting some voice call outs. It's like it is missing a bunch of sound. Any ideas on where to get started would be greatly appreciated.

#2 5 years ago

You probably have incorrect coil(s) in your machine. Check the #1 and 2 drop target coils, 7 bank reset, inline drop reset, saucer and outhole. They should all be 3-lug coils with 2 diodes each. If that's correct, then you may have shorted diode(s). Test the diodes on all of those coils and make sure none are shorted. You don't have to remove them from the circuit to test them.

#3 5 years ago

All the coils are all correct. How do you test the diodes when they are still attached to the lugs?

#4 5 years ago

Do you have the helper bulb installed on the solenoid expander board under the playfield?

The missing speech is usually fixed by replacing all the caps on the Squawk and Talk board. You can usually buy the caps as a kit.

#5 5 years ago

Try moving the trimmer pot on the sound bound. There are 2 one for voice and the other for game sounds. If it gets better or worse replace them. That's all I needed to do on mine. Big Daddy carries these.

http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

#6 5 years ago

This is driven from the Solenoid Expander Board. Make sure the bulb is lit. If not ,my guess is that you need to replace BR1 on the power supply rectifier board.

Quoted from beauimpala:

Also the coil that kicks out the ball in the saucer shot is extremely weak too. No binding. Free movement. It's gets a pulse to move and it will, but not enough to kick the ball out.
.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from beauimpala:

All the coils are all correct. How do you test the diodes when they are still attached to the lugs?

Just put your meter on ohms and measure across the diodes. They should all read at least 10 ohms. Any that read 0 ohms are obviously bad.

If those are all good then you should replace the driver transistor AND diode on the SDB for those SEB driven coils. They are Q8, Q13, Q14 and their associated diodes.

#9 5 years ago

In addition to the above mentioned suggestions, check your connector at the Solenoid Expander board. Repin the connector and reflow the solder on the header pins.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

In addition to the above mentioned suggestions, check your connector at the Solenoid Expander board. Repin the connector and reflow the solder on the header pins.

Yes. This should be done before anything else.

#11 5 years ago

Just had the same issue...the connector on the rectifier going to the playfield was bad. The solenoid expander wasn't getting any power. So it might be that, but you might want to also reflow the solder for the bridge rectifiers and everything else on that board. The connector would be the easiest thing to check though.

The 2, kickout, saucer, and I think the bonus multiplier reset were my issues.

For the sound, like someone mentioned, the volume pots on the board, or I think there is even a dipswitch setting for turning some sounds off and some on.

Good luck

#12 5 years ago

Now that the thread is started, I have a couple issues on my newly obtained EBDLE.

1. I know how to adjust the settings on self-test 16-22, but they don't stay set. I don't like to have my machine powered "on" all the time, so I turn it off when I am finished playing using the switch on the underside of the cabinet - but I do keep the machine plugged in to an unswitched outlet that stays powered. Is there a way to keep the settings? I also lose the accumulated D-E-L-U-X-E lights on the backglass, so the progressive bonus has to restart from nothing at power up.

2. After the machine has been powered down, and loses all the settings that I made in self-test mode, sometimes the "saved" high score resets to 50,000 and sometimes to 50,800.

3. When resetting the score bonus settings, there is a residual 4,820 points that I cannot reset to zero. So a replay can be awarded at 604,820 and 1,104,820 and 2,004,820 but I cannot figure out how to set it at exactly 600,000 and 1,100,000 and 2,000,000.

4. I noticed that near each of the bottom flippers, there are some wires protruding through the playfield, but still below the mylar - directly in the path of the ball. What are these wires for?

5. And last, the bottom left flipper is chattering and I can see that a screw has penetrated the outer part of the flipper coil below and there is visible arcing. If I replace/rebuild one flipper, should I do all three?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from HeavyKevvy:

Now that the thread is started, I have a couple issues on my newly obtained EBDLE.
1. I know how to adjust the settings on self-test 16-22, but they don't stay set. I don't like to have my machine powered "on" all the time, so I turn it off when I am finished playing using the switch on the underside of the cabinet - but I do keep the machine plugged in to an unswitched outlet that stays powered. Is there a way to keep the settings? I also lose the accumulated D-E-L-U-X-E lights on the backglass, so the progressive bonus has to restart from nothing at power up.
2. After the machine has been powered down, and loses all the settings that I made in self-test mode, sometimes the "saved" high score resets to 50,000 and sometimes to 50,800.
3. When resetting the score bonus settings, there is a residual 4,820 points that I cannot reset to zero. So a replay can be awarded at 604,820 and 1,104,820 and 2,004,820 but I cannot figure out how to set it at exactly 600,000 and 1,100,000 and 2,000,000.
4. I noticed that near each of the bottom flippers, there are some wires protruding through the playfield, but still below the mylar - directly in the path of the ball. What are these wires for?
5. And last, the bottom left flipper is chattering and I can see that a screw has penetrated the outer part of the flipper coil below and there is visible arcing. If I replace/rebuild one flipper, should I do all three?

1. Change the Batteries - chance that the holder might be bad if the batteries are good
2. Same - Batteries - as far as the bonus progression you will lose that when you turn it off, just the way it is.
3. Not sure, but do the batteries first
4. That is to stop a 'Slap Save' - just google it if you don't know what it is
5. Fix that flipper - you should do all, of course, do you have to? - No. But you will probably have one strong flipper and 2 weak ones.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from HeavyKevvy:

3. When resetting the score bonus settings, there is a residual 4,820 points that I cannot reset to zero. So a replay can be awarded at 604,820 and 1,104,820 and 2,004,820 but I cannot figure out how to set it at exactly 600,000 and 1,100,000 and 2,000,000.

When you want to establish the scoring levels for replay, go into the test mode until you reach the replay level setting. In prep for this, remove back glass and have back box door open. Once you are at the replay level setting, if you have a residual number or just want to reset it to zero, there is a reset button on the MPU. Press it once while you are at each level and it will zero out. You can then set to any level you want. As far as your game not remembering what you set, that is a battery issue. Either the batteries are drained or you do not have a good connection between the batteries and the MPU.

#15 5 years ago

I'm glad this thread was started too. I am having intermittent, but very similar issues with my EBD LE. The issue will sometimes arise when I first turn on the game. Right after I hit start, the 1 ball or 2 ball will go down and the TILT lights up and special light in the middle comes on. The ball will not feed. Sometimes the issue happens though while a ball is in play (seems to be at random times, I have not detected a pattern yet) - the special light and TILT light come on (without any nudging at all - the plumb bob is motionless). I can still play the ball and scoring works fine but then when ball drains it will not feed.

When I go into the test mode, the light by the expander board lights up fine. When I go to solenoid test the solenoids sometimes will fire correctly (including ball feed) but other times the 2 target will drop instead of the ball feed.

If I turn the game off sometimes it clears it up but sometime I have to try a few times or wait a while.

I'm still a rookie at pin maintenance, so I greatly appreciate any advice. How can I narrow in on the issue?

Thanks!

#16 5 years ago

Reflow the header pins on the SEB.

#17 5 years ago

I picked up an EBD last year and here's the plan:

Step 1 - Replace ALL capacitors and trimmer pots. Big Daddy sells kits for all of these and can include the volume(2 of them) ones for the sound board and the high voltage one for the solenoid board.

Step 2 - Repin/replug damn near everything. I've seen burned pins on the solenoid board as well as the MPU. The cost of parts for this is low compared to the benefit received.

Step 3 - Add a remote battery system. Get the old batt holder off of the MPU.

Step 4 - Give it a good once over with a strong flashlight. Even a well lit room can hide details. Suspect any wire with electrical tape and/or a poor soldering job or even a hint of crispyness. Check that the ground braid has been reconnected if the head can be removed. Look for jumpers that don't belong.

These four steps should eliminate 90% of any problems. While they can apply to really any pin of that era, machines like EBD, KISS and several others were routed and played literally to death. Operators and techs alike did whatever was necessary to keep the quarters dropping. With a little TLC, they should last another 30 years.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

I picked up an EBD last year and here's the plan:
Step 1 - Replace ALL capacitors and trimmer pots. Big Daddy sells kits for all of these and can include the volume(2 of them) ones for the sound board and the high voltage one for the solenoid board.
Step 2 - Repin/replug damn near everything. I've seen burned pins on the solenoid board as well as the MPU. The cost of parts for this is low compared to the benefit received.
Step 3 - Add a remote battery system. Get the old batt holder off of the MPU.
Step 4 - Give it a good once over with a strong flashlight. Even a well lit room can hide details. Suspect any wire with electrical tape and/or a poor soldering job or even a hint of crispyness. Check that the ground braid has been reconnected if the head can be removed. Look for jumpers that don't belong.
These four steps should eliminate 90% of any problems. While they can apply to really any pin of that era, machines like EBD, KISS and several others were routed and played literally to death. Operators and techs alike did whatever was necessary to keep the quarters dropping. With a little TLC, they should last another 30 years.

Very good advice. I do the same to all my early Bally's. I also routinely rebuild the power supplies. As far as re-pinning and rebuilding the plugs, I do them all as well with the exception of the light driver board...only do it if there is an apparent problem.

2 weeks later
-1
#19 5 years ago

OK, so I have some time this weekend to investigate the battery replacement, and I like the idea of using a capacitor instead of a battery. On the EBDLE, is there just the one battery location? I have the owner's manual, but I cannot find any specs on the battery. What are the battery specs, and what are the specs on a capacitor substitute? I think I read in Pinside somewhere that somebody used a 5.5V and 1 Farad capacitor (or is it a 1 microFarad capacitor).

And now I have one more problem. The reset button does not do anything at all. Is this also a battery problem?

#20 5 years ago

5.5V, 1 Farad is correct. Some places sell 1.5 Farad...even better. Only one battery and that's at the bottom of the MPU. The reset button only works for game audits and settings. Perfect example is if you go past your desired replay setting you can clear it and start over by pressing the button on the MPU.

#21 5 years ago

Thank you, I will look for that 5.5V, 1+ Farad capacitor. So, the larger Farad rating would mean a greater storage capacity allowing me to not play my game longer and still keep the settings? How long should a 1 Farad, or a 1.5 Farad hold a charge?

And that is the battery location I determined from reading the owner's manual.

I mis-typed about the reset button. I meant to say the "self-test" button (on the inside of the coin door, next to the volume control) no longer functions. In the past, I was able to use this button to adjust the settings, but now when I press it, nothing happens.

#22 5 years ago

Check for continuity from the switch to the backbox connectors. MPU (A4) connector J3, pin 1 and solenoid driver module (A3) J2 pin 7. The wire colors are Red (10) and Yellow/Red (31). There are 3 important things in this era of Bally and classic Stern pins to fix to have a stable game, connectors, connectors and connectors.

Test-597.PNG

Here are the codes that Bally used, A3 = SDM and A4 = MPU. The wire color codes are written above the line in a box. Understanding these codes will go a long way in navigating the schematics.
Bally Codes.PNG

#23 5 years ago

SuperChicken: I unplugged the two pin modules and verified zero resistance across the two pin modules with the test switch pressed, and also zero resistance at the switch across the two wires. Now that I have re-installed the pin modules, the self-test is working. Perhaps it was just a bit dusty, or one of the pins needed some patina removed. But thanks for the tips - was able to reset the bonus point levels at desired settings. (Freeplay40 - thanks for the tip on the reset button. I was able to zero out all the residual points on the bonus settings.)

Now, all of a sudden - mid-game - the left flippers stopped working. No response at all from pressing the flipper button. Playing four games, first ball was fine; second ball - no left flippers. Right flipper works just fine.

I have already have checked A3-J2-2 (Left Flipper) and against A2-J2-2, and compared it to A3-J2-1 (Right Flipper) and A2-J2-2. Both flipper switches read zero resistance when activated, so no continuity problems detected. All connector pins look ok. Any ideas? Took a peak underneath when powered up - no obvious arcing or smoked connections.

Is it just a coincidence that both the self-test button and the left flipper are connected to module A3-J2?

#24 5 years ago

Pull the solenoid driver board and check the back for burned traces and cracked solder joints on all header pins.

#25 5 years ago

My guess is you need to rebuild/replace connector J2 on the SDU. Both problems you are having run through this connector. Use Trifurcon crimp contacts and a new housing. Here is a post that goes over the basics:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/molex-connectors-1

Quoted from HeavyKevvy:

SuperChicken: I unplugged the two pin modules and verified zero resistance across the two pin modules with the test switch pressed, and also zero resistance at the switch across the two wires. Now that I have re-installed the pin modules, the self-test is working. Perhaps it was just a bit dusty, or one of the pins needed some patina removed. But thanks for the tips - was able to reset the bonus point levels at desired settings. (Freeplay40 - thanks for the tip on the reset button. I was able to zero out all the residual points on the bonus settings.)
Now, all of a sudden - mid-game - the left flippers stopped working. No response at all from pressing the flipper button. Playing four games, first ball was fine; second ball - no left flippers. Right flipper works just fine.
I have already have checked A3-J2-2 (Left Flipper) and against A2-J2-2, and compared it to A3-J2-1 (Right Flipper) and A2-J2-2. Both flipper switches read zero resistance when activated, so no continuity problems detected. All connector pins look ok. Any ideas? Took a peak underneath when powered up - no obvious arcing or smoked connections.
Is it just a coincidence that both the self-test button and the left flipper are connected to module A3-J2?

#26 5 years ago

I removed the A3 board, and the back does not look distressed to me. Below are three close-up photos of A3-J2 focusing on pins 1 & 2. The third photo is inverted and magnified to give a different perspective on the solder joints (1 is on the bottom; 2 is second from bottom). The contacts look intact, but perhaps a bit of extra flux. Does it appear that I need to re-do these solder points?

I understand that A3-J2-1 is for the right flipper (which is working) and A3-J2-2 is for the left flippers (which are not working). I really don't see a difference between these two solder joints.

EBDLE A3-J2 (first).jpgEBDLE A3-J2 (second).jpgEBDLE A3-J2 (third).jpg

#27 5 years ago

You may have a cold solder joint. I would reflow the solder on all of them and try again.

#28 5 years ago

Well, with the help of my brother, we were able to trace all the circuitry on both right and left flippers all the way through the circuit boards and the relays back to the solenoids. And there we found a single loose wire on the lower left flipper coil; unconnected wire was obscured by a loosened piece of shrink tubing. Once it was reconnected . . . all was good. No need to tinker with any of the solder joints on the circuit board. But thanks to all for the suggestions; they certainly helped me to eliminate a lot of potential problems.

#29 5 years ago

Glad it was a simple fix. Play on...

1 week later
#30 5 years ago

All going well, the checklist is getting shorter. Biggest problem now is the saucer kicker above the eight ball D/T. There is only one spring and I believe there should be two? I sold my 6M$M so I do not have it for reference anymore. I need a pic of how the saucer should be properly sprung and maybe reference numbers for the springs used. Thanks!!

#32 5 years ago

its on page 76 of the 1981 parts book. your challenge now is to find the 1981 parts book

given you probably wont be able to .. heres one we prepared earlier

Screen Shot 2014-12-02 at 11.14.37 pm.png

#33 5 years ago

Oh awesome. This is egg-xactly what I needed. Thanks guys!

2 years later
#34 2 years ago

So I have a problem with my EBD on location. Power up and start a game and everything looks good. Flippers work and when a ball gets into the pops everything goes dark except the GI. Power off and back on restores everything. No idea what to look at. I'm running altek boards, replaced the bridge rectifiers.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from policano:

No idea what to look at.

Does it happen if you run the solenoid test?

#36 2 years ago

I couldn't get it to do it in test. I'll try it again. It's annoying ha

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