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(Topic ID: 90627)

Eight Ball Deluxe. Differences and prices


By newtoit

6 years ago



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  • 61 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 68 days ago by Freeplay40
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 61 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

Are some eight ball deluxe considered better or more valuable than others? On ipdb.org there is a bally and a bally midway version is one considered better or more valuable?

#2 6 years ago

There's actually 3 of them if you count the LE with the shorter back glass. I think the original Bally is the most desirable. It has the typical lift our back glass. As far as value, the LE would be the lowest.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from newtoit:

Are some eight ball deluxe considered better or more valuable than others? On ipdb.org there is a bally and a bally midway version is one considered better or more valuable?

It goes like this.

Prod round 1 - 1981 - White cab full / size - the most valuable.
Prod round 2 - 1982 - Special Edition cab - worth about 60% of the original in $$$.
Prod round 3 - 1984 - Bally/Midway full / size - green cab - worth about 70% of the original in $$$.

This pin is famous for wear near the drop target area. Beware.
Probably the largest range of cost, for any classic pin ever.

SE cabs can be had for as little as $800 with some imperfections.
The original white cab in mint cond. and with a clear coated playfield can fetch up to $3,000 or more.

If you like the pin and find any copy in good condition, $1,400 is average for SE, $1,800-$2,200 common for the original white cab.

#4 6 years ago

I prefer the LE version and like the overall vibe it brings to the game room.
It has some interesting history behind the cabinet and there were fewer of them made, about 2K vs. 8K.

#5 6 years ago

Because so many of this game were beat to death on location, but some have been fully restored, prices will vary wildly based on condition.

LEs are the least-expensive, followed by the final version, and the original is most expensive.
A player's LE may be a $600 game in really rough but mostly functional shape. A nice LE could be just shy of $2k. I don't see many rough originals, but I'd guess they go for somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000, and restored ones may go for a few grand.

I have an LE, so I may be biased, but I think that's the best value-for-money. Same game, just an oddball cabinet.

#6 6 years ago

The LE cabinet looks goofy and stands out in a bad way in a line up. I put mine next to a Centaur II and it now looks just fine, not nearly as noticeable.

Take advantage of the LE's great price for a pin that is every bit as enjoyable to play. Some even seem to prefer the LE due to the score being easier to see when you are playing. Also the cabinet art is very different. I am not a huge fan of gold color and the LE cabinet has that as a predominate color, but I can live with it.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from JC_Pins:

I prefer the LE version and like the overall vibe it brings to the game room.
It has some interesting history behind the cabinet and there were fewer of them made, about 2K vs. 8K.

I own an LE with a brand new playfield in it. I'd prefer that standard cab because it is in a line with 3 other classic Bally games (HG, MH, EB). But no matter what the version, it is a wonderful game. I love it, but I always walk away swearing at it out of frustration. I think it has the shortest ball time of any game I own and can just be brutal.

#8 6 years ago

I like the LE cab the most.

It stands out in a line up of games - people gravitate right to it.

#9 6 years ago

I want one, and I'd prefer the original. I don't know why.

... and I probably wouldn't pass on any of them given a fair price!

#10 6 years ago

I've got a pretty decent EBD-LE for 1400. I've rebuilt the PS completely, replaced the transistors on the sol board and recapped the S&T, new drops, etc. Playfield is decent as it is mostly factory mylar (or appears to be). The only real wear area is on the way to the 8 ball shot, at the top, and a little in the return lanes. I think saying 60-70% of price is curious. Some people actually prefer the LE cabinet. I have no issues with the cabinet, easier to see scores while playing, if you want to drain of course, and the narrower head gives a couple inches more room. I think the price I'm asking is pretty decent for the game and condition but it's not moving. Maybe it'll just end up staying, they made it 3 times for a reason.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from mot:

I want one, and I'd prefer the original. I don't know why.
... and I probably wouldn't pass on any of them given a fair price!

I prefer the original cabinet with the framed backglass too. In fact I have one. I think it just fits the era of the machine much better than the midway version or the smaller Rapid Fire style backglass. Mine is a very early one which was made with RED posts and of course, the white Pop Bumper Caps. I just don't like seeing the Blue posts on all the others. But then, for many, its what they are used to seeing or saw when they played it back in the day.

BTW, full blown chromed restorations go for way more than just $3K.

#12 6 years ago

Why would the original be worth more than the 3rd version? What did the 3rd version lose over version #1? Framed backglass???? The 3rd version has improvements over the first version.... like easier swapped lights in the playfield. I'm also not as fond of the white cab on the original.

To each his own though... I'm not knocking v1 or v2, but I'd buy another v3 over the others.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from mnpin:

I'm not knocking v1 or v2, but I'd buy another v3 over the others.

I'd take a 3rd, too. I'm just not too big on the LE.

#14 6 years ago

Stole a 3rd edition at TPF this year for a mere $300. The condition reflects it, but then I don't collect machines. I resuscitate and play them. This is the only way I could ever afford one. Given the choice, I would take the original in white. I believe it looks the best. I think the LEs are butt ugly. All personal choice and very subjective.

#15 6 years ago

I prefer the original cabinet with the framed backglass too. In fact I have one. I think it just fits the era of the machine much better than the midway version or the smaller Rapid Fire style backglass. Mine is a very early one which was made with RED posts and of course, the white Pop Bumper Caps. I just don't like seeing the Blue posts on all the others. But then, for many, its what they are used to seeing or saw when they played it back in the day.
BTW, full blown chromed restorations go for way more than just $3K.

Cactus Jack is right. I sold my fully restored EBD about five months ago. New playfield, new back Glass new plastics. repainted cabinet for $4700. I thought I let it go cheap.

#16 6 years ago

I recently looked at a EBD LE for $1400, and the guy advertised it as very nice, and it had wear all over the playfield and the game was not even close to being worth his asking price (prob $800 max). Don't overpay for one, the price is all over. Ebay can be a good indicator of market price.

Here's an EBD LE that didn't sell for $1K on ebay:

Screen Shot 2014-05-12 at 8.56.02 PM.png

Also a nice EBD with decent playfield :

Screen Shot 2014-05-12 at 8.56.38 PM.png

And a very nice EBD project:

Screen Shot 2014-05-12 at 8.57.27 PM.png

#17 6 years ago

The three releases were as follows:

1981 "Original Edition" 8,250 produced
1982 "Limited Edition" 2,388 produced
1984 "Classic Edition" 1,500 +/- produced

The original edition was very successful commercially and is by-far the most sought-after version of the machine for collectors. People used to stand in line and fight over playing EBD back in the days. It was the busiest pin in our arcade back in 1981. Fathom and Harlem Globetrotters sat next to EBD with cobwebs on them.

As Bally was disintegrating in the early 80s, they rushed out a second version of EBD using some left over cabinets and other odds and ends. This was the "Limited Edition".

The Limited Edition playfield is identical to the original except the apron is black instead of yellow. The score cards say "Limited Edition" on them. The goofy cabinet uses a smaller backglass and it has red LED (early Texas Instruments-like readouts). The gameplay is identical to the original.

In 1984-1985 Bally-Midway decided to produce another release of EBD. This third release is often referred to as the "Classic Edition". It used a Midway cabinet with a slightly smaller swing-out backglass than the original.

The "Classic Edition" playfield is the same except it has printed circuit boards with twist-in lamp sockets in the heavily-populated areas instead of having all individual sockets. The apron was black like the Limited Edition and the score cards still said "Limited Edition" on them.

Back in the days, we used to call the original EBD the "bad guy" machine because it had a ghoulish-looking dude on the cabinet. We called the 1984 "Classic Edition" the "good guy" machine because it had a normal-looking dude on the cabinet with a wedding band on his hand.

We didn't have a nickname for the "Limited Edition".

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from mnpin:

Why would the original be worth more than the 3rd version? What did the 3rd version lose over version #1? Framed backglass???? The 3rd version has improvements over the first version.... like easier swapped lights in the playfield. I'm also not as fond of the white cab on the original.
To each his own though... I'm not knocking v1 or v2, but I'd buy another v3 over the others.

The 3rd version, I believe, has decals on the sides instead of the painted cabinet.
That's a big cheapo way out, and many classics enthusiasts do not like it.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

The goofy cabinet uses a smaller backglass and it has red LED (early Texas Instruments-like readouts).

Standard displays with a red filter over them. That whole panel is just a red filter.

#20 6 years ago

Never cared for the LE's. Miss the heck out of my original though. Great pin. Hope to get another one soon. Anyone got one for sale??

#21 6 years ago

The Bally/Midway version has the particle board cabinet. I don't like the plain black front or the t-molding. Dislike all this on my Strange Science too.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

The Bally/Midway version has the particle board cabinet. I don't like the plain black front or the t-molding.

+1

4 months later
#23 6 years ago

I have an original. The cabinet has definitely seen better days but the playfield is in good condition. The playfield has a protective cover on it (might be mylar) and I don't know if the cover is actually one of the mylar playfields that I have heard about or just a clear protector. One of the things that I like best is that the posts are red. For some reason whenever I see a machine with the blue posts they really stand out and change the whole look of the game for me. A few unique things about this game are the volume is on the right side of the cabinet not on the coin door and there is a tiny button that is used to cycle through the settings which is different from what I have seen in the manual. BTW the pop bumpers are not the white ones they are the normal orange ones. Any information or ways to learn more about this machine are greatly appreciated.

1 year later
#24 4 years ago

There are other differences between all three machines than the ones noted.

The EBD "Classic" has the most differences than the other two versions.
Fortunately, most were not "corner cutting" by Bally-Midway.

List of differences from the original 1980 game and LE edition (complete):

1) Partial particle board cabinet with T-molding (backs and bottoms are plywood, sides are particle board)
2) Significantly smaller backglass in comparison to the original
3) Hinged backbox with rounded flared shape and T-molding
4) Swinging backglass frame which mounts both the displays and backbox lighting with a single quick disconnect MOLEX connector
5) PCB light boards for playfield insert lighting
6) Black playfield LE apron (reused) with Bally-Midway logo
7) Decaled cabinet (that used deep yellow colors instead of gold for lettering)
8 ) Improved "realistic" cowboy "chalker" backbox sideart
9) Playfield wire harness game differences to playfield controlled lighting AND coils
10) Non-boarded playfield lights used "green LE" #555 sockets
11) Slight differences in some of the early Bally-Midway game insert colors (primary production was the same as the original, I think there may have been a factory $#%@ up)
12) Brass plaques on backboxes for most of the full production run (many were removed, or not installed at the factory and thrown in the cashbox by operators)
13) Some small assembly wiring differences in the cabinet (minor)
14) Some small coil assembly differences on the underside (minor)
15) Grounding location wire strap differences on the cabinet and backbox (the backbox used a foil mounting system, instead of regular metal)
16) Front of the cabinet is PURE BLACK, no artwork
17) "Bally-Midway" is the proper coin door decal
18) Legs were not chrome, many used a "dulled" grey hammer coat single rib design
19) "Limited Edition" scorecards (leftovers)
20) In lanes were "fixed" from the original design, with higher standoffs to prevent the ball from "jumping" into the outhole (Most of the middle to final range original games had this same fix).

If I think of anything else, I will add it to the list.
Game rom code used is identical to the original.
That is what I can remember off the top of my head, as there are probably a bunch of other minor construction differences.
No machines used the EBD "white pop bumper cap" design.

I only know this because I built a "Classic" machine from spare parts, coupled with work I did servicing all versions over the years.

The only thing that really can bring the value down from the original machine is the particle board cabinet, which is highly susceptible to damage to both its construction and sideart. You have to be careful when moving this machine around as dents "stick".
Fading is notorious on this version to the point of "nuclear blast zone".
If the the game truly "cherry" (PF, cabinet, and BG) the price will be roughly the same as the original, as the cabinet looks great in its prime.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

No machines used the EBD "white pop bumper cap" design.

I believe you are wrong on that point. We operated an original build of the game. It came with the white bumper caps. When one broke, the distributor only had the Amber replacements.

Our game came with Red posts which I have always preferred over the blue ones.

When I went to replace the worn out playfield, I noticed that the original has the milky red Special inserts while the new playfield came with translucent red.

I still have the game in my collection. Serial number 1490. And I still have the white caps it came with.

#26 4 years ago

Another difference between the original 1980 version and EBD classic version is the use of an adjustable drop target bank for the horseshoe targets, a big help to keep balls from getting stuck on top of dropped targets.

Regarding chrome legs, I thought all Bally games from this time period used the charcoal grey legs? Chrome looks nice on an EBD, but I don't think it is original.

Also, on a related note, PCB lamp boards were used at some point in the run on the EBD LE, too. I have owned two different EBD LE that had these lamp boards, and two EBD LE that didn't. Not sure how many of these are out there.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Regarding chrome legs, I thought all Bally games from this time period used the charcoal grey legs? Chrome looks nice on an EBD, but I don't think it is original.

Yep, they were all Gun Metal Gray. That's all I remember seeing on them. Mine had them too. I'm 90% sure they all came that way.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I believe you are wrong on that point. We operated an original build of the game. It came with the white bumper caps. When one broke, the distributor only had the Amber replacements.
Our game came with Red posts which I have always preferred over the blue ones.
When I went to replace the worn out playfield, I noticed that the original has the milky red Special inserts while the new playfield came with translucent red.
I still have the game in my collection. Serial number 1490. And I still have the white caps it came with.

image-7_(resized).jpg

#29 4 years ago

No matter which version you have, it is still a great game to play and one of the best games ever made !
I dont know if this has been mentioned, but i believe the playfield dimensions were a little smaller for the (rapid fire cabinet) SE version

#30 4 years ago

Same playfield size for the LE

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I believe you are wrong on that point. We operated an original build of the game. It came with the white bumper caps. When one broke, the distributor only had the Amber replacements.

I stand corrected.

I never have seen one with white caps, but I did not have the chance to NIB this machine. Your late run machine definately points that they all probably shipped with them from the factory.

I have seen a few with red star posts and forgot about the target bank though, good catches.

#527

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from out_of_order:

I dont know if this has been mentioned, but i believe the playfield dimensions were a little smaller for the (rapid fire cabinet) SE version

All PFs are the same size.
Physical playfield surface is the same. All are identical and could be used interchangably in theory.

#33 4 years ago

I remember in 1981 the first EBD I ever saw had the white pop caps. I think Bally switched to the amber after the first 500 units or so though because later on none of them had the white caps.

Here's a trim ring from one I restored several years ago. They were all beat-up and broken so I replaced them with amber.

IMG_8251_(resized).JPG

#34 4 years ago

Here is another difference I remember.

No type of of playfield REAR glass molding (metal or plastic) used on the "classic" machine. I had to add my own to keep dust out of the backside. It required cutting down a WPC rear channel mounting height 1/4" and mounting it in the lower backbox area.

Looks stock with all the T-molding. Keeps the glass tight as well. $5.

#35 4 years ago

The "Classic" machine had a black plastic rear glass molding. It was stapled on if I remember correctly.

It might have been missing on your machine.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

There are other differences between all three machines than the ones noted.
The EBD "Classic" has the most differences than the other two versions.
Fortunately, most were not "corner cutting" by Bally-Midway.

I agree with most of what you have listed about the 1984-85 Bally/Midway release except for maybe two points:

1) "Improved "realistic" cowboy "chalker" backbox sideart" - I definitely have to disagree on this. The original Bally edition had a goulish-looking pool player that was much cooler than the Midway man. Back in the days when these machines were new us kids used to call the original version the "bad guy machine" and the Midway version the "nice guy machine". I always preferred the bad guy. Changing to the nicer guy artwork wasn't necessarily an improvement IMO.

2) "If the the game truly "cherry" (PF, cabinet, and BG) the price will be roughly the same as the original, as the cabinet looks great in its prime" - This may or may not be true depending on the buyer. Most would still prefer the original version but a harder core collector might jump on a mint 1985 version just because they are so rare. I know I would love to find a mint HUO 1985 version but never have. If I had the choice between a mint HUO original and a mint HUO classic though I'd still have to pick the original every time. The classic was still an afterthought version that Midway basically cranked-out with whatever they had laying around. Still there were a few worthy improvements made.

The next machine I restore will have a 1981 cabinet with the 1985 internals. I have a complete wiring harness and all the mechanicals from a 1985 classic all refurbished and ready to go to make the ultimate EBD with all the enhancements.

#37 4 years ago

the one thing I like about the LE, is that captures the transition from the previous generation of scores in the backglass to the late 80s and beyond of putting the scoring (and later DMD) below the backglass and closer to the playfield. It is also a conversation piece given the different look and history behind it (especially since I have it next to an original style Centaur, which is part of the story). Having said that, I would certainly trade my LE for an original.

#38 4 years ago

I think an LE would look awesome sitting next to a Centaur II.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

I think an LE would look awesome sitting next to a Centaur II.

Don't forget Mr. & Mrs. Pac Man and Rapid Fire to complete the set.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Don't forget Mr. & Mrs. Pac Man and Rapid Fire to complete the set.

Yes that would definitely be a worthy set of machines for a serious Bally SS collector.

#41 4 years ago

according to the original EBD flyer from 1981, they had white bumper caps and red posts. I'm getting ready to do another EBD restore and want to make my game look like that. The red posts are no problem. I have 3 NOS white rings but still hunting for the white caps. Will pay good money for them. Within reason of course. I had a chance to buy 3 for $300, but just couldn't see paying that much.

I also have a rare white ring with red roping as opposed to the black. I bought it from an ex Bally employee that collected bumper caps, I believe it's from a prototype.

#42 4 years ago

Bare minimum, your could make clear decals for putting on plain blank caps if Steve Young has them to sell you. But if he did, and he is stamping Amber ones, perhaps he could run some in white?

I definitely prefer the red posts and red translucent lane guides. I also use red rings with the Amber caps. I think it looks really nice this way albeit not original.

#43 4 years ago

Actually there were some EBD bumper cap deals on ebay recently, not right now though. I thought of going that route but figured nobody made the white caps. I'll email Steve and ask.

#44 4 years ago

decals, not deals

#45 4 years ago

I gotta stop vaping so much

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

Ebay can be a good indicator of market price.

I've never found this to be true in any circumstance when it comes to pins. I've bought and sold for years on eBay, but it's generally pretty ridiculous. People who aren't pinball people think they're worth their weight in gold.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

I've never found this to be true in any circumstance when it comes to pins. I've bought and sold for years on eBay, but it's generally pretty ridiculous. People who aren't pinball people think they're worth their weight in gold.

I blame some of that on Pawn Stars and American Pickers

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

I've never found this to be true in any circumstance when it comes to pins. I've bought and sold for years on eBay, but it's generally pretty ridiculous. People who aren't pinball people think they're worth their weight in gold.

Yeah but then the opposite is true here on Pinside. Whenever someone asks how much a game is worth you always hear some real lowball answers. I've sold fully-restored EBD machines for over $4,000 on eBay before. If I put those same machines on here and asked for an estimate of their worth I guarantee you some jokers would come back with quotes of $500-$600 or some other ridiculous BS.

lol

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

All PFs are the same size.
Physical playfield surface is the same. All are identical and could be used interchangably in theory.

I would disagree with this at least as far as the wiring harnesses are concerned.

I got a dead EBD-LE that was in peices. When I tried to plug the playfield into the rest of the harness (the plug that has the controlled lamps as I recall) the plug was not right. It was clear that the playfield had been pulled from anther EBD, probably a different generation.

I can't remember if the plugs were different, if I had two female plugs or the wires were in different spots on the plug.

But I do know that I had to cut off both plugs, trace all of the wires, and solder them together to get the pin to work.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from mg81:

I would disagree with this at least as far as the wiring harnesses are concerned.
I got a dead EBD-LE that was in peices. When I tried to plug the playfield into the rest of the harness (the plug that has the controlled lamps as I recall) the plug was not right. It was clear that the playfield had been pulled from anther EBD, probably a different generation.
I can't remember if the plugs were different, if I had two female plugs or the wires were in different spots on the plug.
But I do know that I had to cut off both plugs, trace all of the wires, and solder them together to get the pin to work.

As far as I know, the LE is the only one that has a different wiring harness. It uses 2 15-pin plugs. Most of that wiring is going to the aux lamp driver board, w/ 1 wire from each 15-pin plug going to the main lamp driver board.

Other than that, the playfields are the same.

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