(Topic ID: 305270)

Eight ball deluxe

By Kovac

2 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Kovac
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    #1 2 years ago

    Hi my name is Marco I'm new here and believe it or not I already have a question
    After couple of months of sitting I finally started up my pinball machine.
    As soon as you start the game, as you can see it in the video, even before you shoot the ball, it starts counting score like I have a stuck switch somewhere.
    I cleaned every connector on every board upstairs and downstairs with the contact cleaner.
    Also I did clean every leaf switch on the playfield.
    You can see on video how it starts counting right away.
    Upper display flickering it's just a side effect of my camera, actually it's not flickering.
    What is flickering it's a SPECIAL light bulb and the one in the left bottom corner.
    Does anyone know what this could be, or can I use any self diagnostics on it to figure out what is it?
    Thank you so much in advance.

    Marco

    #2 2 years ago

    put the game in switch test. read the manual to see which switch is closed. remove the ball first.

    #3 2 years ago

    read manual about diagnostic tests. hint: push red button behind the front door.

    #4 2 years ago

    Bally machines of this era used capacitors across many switches. When they go bad it’s like a short across the switch.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    Bally machines of this era used capacitors across many switches. When they go bad it’s like a short across the switch.

    I bet you a nice warm cup of coffee this is the issue

    #6 2 years ago

    I ran self diagnostic and in the stuck switch section it gave me number 17.
    17. 1, 9 DROP TARGET
    I checked them visually and they look okay, nothing is stuck. One more time I give him good clean up with the contact cleaner.
    I will get my buddy tomorrow to check capacitors for me.
    But what I didn't notice first time, as soon as you start the game first Target on the top right drops right away and it starts counting. I don't know why it drops, it could be mechanical reason?

    #7 2 years ago

    This problem involves the solenoid expander board. This board should have a light socket mounted close by. For the board to work correctly a working 555 bulb needs to be installed. Proper operation of the board will switch power return lines from the outhole kicker to the 1,9 drop target coil. Similar to the A/B relay used by Williams.

    #8 2 years ago

    Oops might be the A/C relay instead.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinballdaveh:

    Oops might be the A/C relay instead.

    Thanks,I cleaned expander board relay and connector with the contact cleaner, and that fixed dropping Target.
    I couldn't find any 555 light bulb nearby that doesn't work. But nevertheless it fixed that problem.
    But I'm still puzzled with closed switch error
    17. 1, 9 DROP TARGET .. does this mean 1 and 9 or both targets have stuck switch?

    #10 2 years ago

    The drop target it's referencing is for both 1 + 9 (counts as a the "one ball" for player 1+3, and as the "nine ball" for players 2+4). I'd focus on the switch for that drop target, it may be stuck closed regardless of the position of the target. Hopefully just needs an adjustment.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from frunch:

    The drop target it's referencing is for both 1 + 9 (counts as a the "one ball" for player 1+3, and as the "nine ball" for players 2+4). I'd focus on the switch for that drop target, it may be stuck closed regardless of the position of the target. Hopefully just needs an adjustment.

    O boy, I think I finally got it it's the first Target on the right top, ball 1 and 9 !?
    I checked those visually, they look identical to the rest of the targets.
    Hopefully my buddy can stop by tonight so he can check capacitors on that Target.

    2021-12-04_15-38-16 (resized).jpg2021-12-04_15-38-16 (resized).jpg
    #12 2 years ago

    Thank you everyone for helping me out.
    It is capacitor on the second switch. I couldn't wait for a friend of mine to come over so I just cut one leg off from capacitor just to see if capacitor is the problem.
    Sure enough it's back to normal now.
    I won't play till I replace it so I don't burn off points.

    Anyway, one more time thank you guys so much...

    #13 2 years ago

    You don't burn points on electronic games. Just the flippers are high power. Switch caps are not needed on drop targets.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    You don't burn points on electronic games. Just the flippers are high power. Switch caps are not needed on drop targets.

    I thought they were there to prevent arcing

    #15 2 years ago

    No, switch caps are used on computer switches (the voltage is nominally 5 volts... not enough to arc) to lengthen short hits (on pops, slings, standup targets) - there are diodes on all switches as it's a switch matrix so they are needed there to prevent one switch from affecting another switch.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    No, switch caps are used on computer switches (the voltage is nominally 5 volts... not enough to arc) to lengthen short hits (on pops, slings, standup targets) - there are diodes on all switches as it's a switch matrix so they are needed there to prevent one switch from affecting another switch.

    They used 12V 50pf cap. The closest I can find locally is FILRDL POLPRP 120PF 50V 5LS . Will this one work?

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Kovac:

    They used 12V 50pf cap. The closest I can find locally is FILRDL POLPRP 120PF 50V 5LS . Will this one work?

    It works...

    #18 2 years ago

    I wouldn’t even put disc caps back on drop target switches. No point.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    I wouldn’t even put disc caps back on drop target switches. No point.

    Correct, the drop target switches don't need capacitors. I suspect Kovac may have confused the drop target switches on the mech with the "D-E-L-U-X-E" standup switches that should have capacitors.

    Quoted from Kovac:

    The closest I can find locally is FILRDL POLPRP 120PF 50V 5LS

    120pF capacitors are way too low in capacitance, they will not do the job required to help sense fast ball hits on the standup targets.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Correct, the drop target switches don't need capacitors. I suspect Kovac may have confused the drop target switches on the mech with the "D-E-L-U-X-E" standup switches that should have capacitors.

    120pF capacitors are way too low in capacitance, they will not do the job required to help sense fast ball hits on the standup targets.

    You are right, my bad, there are stand-up switches...

    Original capacitors are 50pf 12V, and I used 120pf 50V

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from Kovac:

    Original capacitors are 50pf 12V, and I used 120pf 50V

    The original capacitors are 0.05uF aka 50nF aka 50,000pF (micro/nano/pico Farads respectively). The switch capacitor value is listed on the playfield schematics.
    If your game had a 50pF capacitor, someone put the wrong one there.
    You're going to notice very fast hits on the standup target with the wrong 120pF capacitor won't be detected.

    #22 2 years ago

    You'll get better replies on one of the Solid State forums. This is Electro Mechanical.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-efficiently-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-em

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The original capacitors are 0.05uF aka 50nF aka 50,000pF (micro/nano/pico Farads respectively). The switch capacitor value is listed on the playfield schematics.
    If your game had a 50pF capacitor, someone put the wrong one there.
    You're going to notice very fast hits on the standup target with the wrong 120pF capacitor won't be detected.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are 0.05MDF....or 50pf ?
    20211204_192334 (resized).jpg20211204_192334 (resized).jpg

    #24 2 years ago

    50 MFD is microfarad.... So 50,000 Pico farad

    #26 2 years ago

    Ok..

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    50 MFD is microfarad.... So 50,000 Pico farad

    My bad... Mixed up NF and MF

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