(Topic ID: 155659)

Eight Ball Deluxe - No sound !

By Eightys-EBD-Man

8 years ago


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#1 8 years ago

Have EBD LE but can't get sound. Had S&T recapped with a full kit from Big Daddy, and new sound pots, but still just get a hum... I can adjust it higher and lower with master vol control, but not with pots.
Help?
Never opened a pin before and no electronics experience... just fumbling through it... need guidance on where to look next.

#2 8 years ago

You'll save time and money if you'd just send it to one of the repair guys.
Me, Rob Anthony, Clive, JWJ can all fix this, just to name a few.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#3 8 years ago

That'sounds so true and I would love such an easy fix.... but I am in Newfoundland (eastern) Canada... there are no repair guys here, and sending it out is not an option.

#4 8 years ago

I just took a look at PiN-Wiki as per your link.....
Saw this;

..Basic maintenance actions
There are 5 actions you can take to ease the process of debugging the S&T board.
1.Ensure the correct jumpers are installed, matching the game and sound ROM type
2. Replace ALL electrolytic capacitors on the board
3. Replace both 1KOhm pots (one for speech, one for sound)
4. Replace ALL IC sockets (in use)
5. Replace .156 male headers at J1 and J2 (at a minimum, reflow the solder joints)

Completing each of the above items usually results in a working Squawk & Talk board.

I have completed first 4 steps... maybe step 5 will be the charm....

#5 8 years ago

Maybe your board is ok. Maybe the speaker isn't hooked up, or the volume on the board is turned down? Or the volume on the coin door is turned down?

#6 8 years ago

how many times is the led flashing? sometimes its as simple as no g.i . it needs that voltage. make sure your g.i. is on.

#7 8 years ago

Here's a Canadian guy who can repair your board or you can purchase a rebuilt one from him.

I've bought stuff from him before:

ebay.com link: linkpete

#8 8 years ago

Board is good, 5 flashes and speaker is good..

What's GI?

#9 8 years ago

General illumination. The board uses GI power to create the -5VDC power.
But if you have all the right voltages as specified in the PinWiki, that won't be the problem.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#10 8 years ago

Try wiggling j1 & j2 connectors around

#11 8 years ago

Thanks guys... all suggestions welcome... still no luck.

1 week later
#12 7 years ago

Thanks folks for the suggestions....

OK, so all I have is a hum in the speaker that gets louder if I try to adjust the sound POT on the door... no voice, no background. As I said, I'm a total rookie and don't have any previous experience, but I sure am learning a lot as I go. I have managed to get everything working on the game except sound..... I'm still looking and welcome any help...

Here's where I am on the sound:

- I did the simply obvious stuff like adjust the pots, check the flashes etc... I get the 5 flashes, and the game plays fine.
- I replaced all capacitors on S&T
- I replaced POTS on S&T board
- I checked the ground loops and have continuity
- I measured voltages on the S&T and all seem to be fine. I was able to test TP2 at +4.7V, TP3 at +14V, and TP4 at -4.7V.... Is TP3 High? does that matter? (I read it should be +11.5V).
- I replaced the screws holding the board to the frame.
- I removed and reinserted, jiggled, and twisted the J1 and J2 connectors.
- I connected an external stereo speaker and still got the same hum.

So I am assuming I have a good board? and a good speaker. the hum gets louder as I adjust the door POT.

People tell me I am overworking it and that it might be as simple as a ground problem, but other than checking for continuity, I don't know how to check it.

Help... the hum is driving me nuts!

#13 7 years ago

Update: I'm learni g as I go... I noticed today on the S&T that the 6 pin J2 is not fully occupied. 1&2 have a connector that renders the speaker silent when removed.... 3 is the key, but 4, 5, &6 don't have anything on them. The schematic shows that they should go to sound and Noise volume control... Does anybody know what should be connected if anything and can anybody show me a line drawing?
Thanks

#14 7 years ago

Screenshot_2016-04-09-13-56-34_(resized).pngScreenshot_2016-04-09-13-56-34_(resized).png

#15 7 years ago

Did you try swapping out the 6821 on the sound board?

#16 7 years ago

That in U7 slot right?
I guess thats next...
I did swap out U3 U4 U5....
Guess I gotta start sourcing parts....

#17 7 years ago

By the way... someone before me replaced the pin connector on J1 but I dont think its right... I understood this is typically a 15 pin connector... they had wiring on positions 15 16 and 17 of an 18 pin.

Can someone post a clear photo of the connector and coloring (close-up) so I can verify please?

#18 7 years ago

Has the sound ever worked?. What happens when you press the test button on the board? You should get a sound or two. Can you post a pic of the board? I'd like to see the jumper settings.

Try ohm-ing out all the wiring to the board. Check from one board to another. I'll post photos of my connectors tonight. I have different machines, but the wiring should be similar.

A few of the last pins on J1 connector aren't used as they are duplicates. I only have the first two pins of the J2 connector used as well. Have you tried flipping your J2 connector - Pin 1 is suppose to go to speaker ground, Pin2 gets reduced by your coin door volume then goes onto speaker positive. Mine works either way, but maybe you have a ground connection at your speaker.

#19 7 years ago

Thanks very much for the reply...
I only bought the machine about a month ago and the sound never worked since I got it...
The test button maybe only gives one quick flicker of static... nothing else.
I ordered a cap and pots kit from Big Daddy and had installed at an electronics shop.
I'm new to pin repair and electronics (I learned everything I know on Google!).
I think I understand ohm-ing... basically test for continuity in wiring between boards? I'm not even sure where all the wiring goes or how to trace it... the wiring diagram isnt clear.
My J2 is same... just using 1&2 and swapping produces same result. I even tried another speaker connected directly to the P2 - 1&2 with same result.

#20 7 years ago

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20160412_071718_(resized).jpg20160412_071718_(resized).jpg

#21 7 years ago

Just posted 2 pics of my board and connections above...

#22 7 years ago

What do you hear if you connect an earphone to the S&T?
One lead to ground, the other to C43, TP7 and TP9.

Then use the testbutton or start a game. You should hear weak voices on TP9, and weak "explosions" on TP7.
Normal hums and tones can be heard (also very weak) on C43 (output of U10).

#23 7 years ago

Here is a shot of the S&T board and J1 connector in my Mr Ms Pacman. It took me quite some time to figure out the jumpers. The jumpers for remote/computer volume controlled speech (DD/CC) is different on mine. I went with the computer controlled as my pot didn't work and I haven't replaced them yet. Remote volume option is really just uses the pots on the board. The volume on your coin door is wired between the output of the board and your speaker - so it's always there. My board is different version (the last version with the unused reverb), but the connection points and useful jumpers are the same.

ST_pcb_pacman_(resized).jpgST_pcb_pacman_(resized).jpg

ST_J1_pacman_(resized).jpgST_J1_pacman_(resized).jpg

#24 7 years ago

Looking at your photos. I see two issues.

1) You should have a jumper wire at W and not have one at X. These are next to the U4 EPROM. Your X jumper might be cut - which is okay as you don't want a connection there. The W one should have a jumper wire installed. Do you have a solder iron? If not, this would be a good time to get one (we can recommend which one). You'll need it to fix wires that will eventually pop off solenoids, lamps, and switches over time.

2) Your wiring at the J1 connector is a bit messed up. Most of the wires come from the (A4) MPU processor board and travel through J1 and continue on to the (A3) solenoid board. If the rest of your machine works, then the signals are at least getting to your S&T board - but there might be a loose connection or connected to wrong pins. Wire 70 (orange wire according to schematic, color 7=orange, color 0 = none) is suppose to go to pin 10 then 17. Yours goes from 10 to 15. I'd move the wire from 15 and move it down to 17. Wire 13 (red and yellow wire according to the schematic, color 1=red, color 3=yellow) is suppose to go to pin 15 then 16. Yours goes from 13 to 14. I'd move both of those down as well. See this all in the photo below.

I've noticed that the wire colors on the schematics don't always match those on the game. The numbers on the other side of the connector on the schematic show where the wire is connected. A3J3-12 for pin 10 means that it goes to the A3 solenoid board, connector J3 pin 12. Some have two destinations. These go to two different boards (usually the MPU and solenoid boards). You'll also notice that my J1 connector stops at pin 15 (above photo). That's because the S&T board (at least mine) has traces to connect pins 15 and 16 and another set to connect pin 10 to 17. So, my harness looks different.

EBD_ST_J1_(resized).jpgEBD_ST_J1_(resized).jpg

#25 7 years ago

I'm actually the culprit on the wiring... it was on 15, 16, and 17... I actually moved them up to 13, 14, 15 based on some pics I saw online.. I will move them back but I had the same result on either placement.
Thanks also for the explanation on the coding.... I worked in telco for 20 years and always understood color coding, just couldnt figure it out on pins.... really appreciate it.

#26 7 years ago

Thanks also for the other suggestions... I have a solder iron but prob need to upgrade for this fine work...

Also thanks to Richard for the testing suggestions... I'll work on it some more in the coming days... and will keep you posted.

Thanks for all the help!

#27 7 years ago

There is in fact a jumper on W and none on X as suggested....

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#28 7 years ago

You accidentally looked at the photo of my board.

#29 7 years ago

Right you are.... good catch... thanks.... here's mine...
Picking up a soldering iron tonight!

Screenshot_2016-04-13-14-00-15_(resized).pngScreenshot_2016-04-13-14-00-15_(resized).png

#30 7 years ago

Wait. Hold off on making a change.
You have a 2716 at U4. Jumpers U and X should be in for a 2716 there.
Your jumpers are correct.
See: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Squawk_.26_Talk_Jumper_Settings
for the jumper settings.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#31 7 years ago

You have an AMI brand 6821 on the board.
Those things are always suspect.
I'd swap that 6821 into U11 on the MPU board and see if the game still boots.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#32 7 years ago

I assume the 6821 is currently in U7 on the S&T?
New issue: previous owner replaced the MPU... I can't locate U11. See pic.

20160414_063353_(resized).jpg20160414_063353_(resized).jpg

#33 7 years ago

Ok. Either IC labeled 6821 on that board will work for this test.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#34 7 years ago

My bad on the jumper X vs W. I didn't see that U4 was a different type of memory IC from the others.

#35 7 years ago

Hey guys
No complaints... thanks for all the help....

#36 7 years ago

I managed to swap the 6921 in u7 with u11 both on the S&T board, to no avail. But the MPU seems to have different components and/or numbering. Attached are photos showing the only similar sized IC on the MPU...

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Screenshot_20160415-065952_(resized).pngScreenshot_20160415-065952_(resized).png

Screenshot_20160415-065940_(resized).pngScreenshot_20160415-065940_(resized).png

Screenshot_20160415-065947_(resized).pngScreenshot_20160415-065947_(resized).png

#37 7 years ago

My MPU board is the Alltek Ultimate MPU. By the way.

#38 7 years ago

I believe I found my own answer on the Alltek website....
From the schematic it looks like U2 and U6 are both 6821s....
Before I mess something up... does this seem right?

Screenshot_20160415-073422_(resized).pngScreenshot_20160415-073422_(resized).png

#39 7 years ago

The W65C21 chip in your Alltek MPU is pin compatible with the old 6821.

I think Chris was concerned that your AMI 6821 chip located in U7 on your S&T board may not be working 100%. To verify it's operating correctly, he suggested to swap it with a 6821 in your MPU board (in your case - a W65C21 in your Alltek MPU). If your machine still runs fine with the 6821 frome the S&T, that AMI 6821 is functional.

I was missing a 6821 on my S&T when I got the board. I purchased a new one (and a spare). The flashing diagnostic LED on my S&T didn't get past the 6821 check. I replaced the new 6821 with the spare - and it worked. So.... In my case, the S&T was able to diagnose my 6821 issues itself. Not sure why my first new 6821 didn't work. Might have been a connection issue. I didn' t want to mess with pulling it out again to test - so I left it alone. Reason, I'm saying this - is that - since you have all the flashes on your S&T diagnostic LED, you might have all the logic items working. (Chris probably has much more expertise here) I'd be looking toward the sound amplifiers and components. Richard suggested attaching an earphone to test points along the way, this is a good way to tell if there is a sound signal there. In my case, after I got the flashes, my volume level was so low I couldn't hear it out the speaker. I did finally hear a faint sound when all was real quite - which lead me to figure out what was causing it.

#40 7 years ago

Loving this thread. I have no skin in the game, but I am learning a few things!

#41 7 years ago

Thanks guys... I am out of town for a few days... can't wait to get home Sunday and try Chris' and Richard's tests.... ( I moved the jumper and then moved it back) good practice if nothing else!
Yes thos is a great summary of the S&T tests and the route we went ... maybe someone else will benefit too!
Good weekend all....

#42 7 years ago

Dang it! Now my Elektra S&T has similar issues. I get the LED flashes but no sound. No sound with the S&T on-board test button either. Machine works fine otherwise. I'll figure it out. I'll let you know what I find.

Update: No big issue. Wire popped off my speaker.

#43 7 years ago

Wish my fix was that simple!
Havent had time to do tests yet....

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