New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 120947)

Educating a newbie: Drop Target Replacement


By goldenboy232

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 37 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Playdium
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

2015-03-07 16.30.42.jpg
pushpull.jpg

#1 5 years ago

Hi everyone,

I may be picking up a Gottlieb Fast Draw on Saturday and I know that the 10 drop targets are mismatched with a variety of targets from other games. Because I'm going to want to restore those to the way they were intended (4 Cowboys on each side with a horseshoe in the center of each bank), I'll be ordering some new targets from Pinball Resource and would like some help with the step-by-step on replacing these.

If there's already a thread on this for EM's specifically, please point me that way.

Thanks, guys!

#2 5 years ago

Without looking (so forgive any errors) - it is rather simple once you've freed the unit.
Carefully loosen the spring, then gently remove the target from the reset finger. Pull down and out.

Do the reverse to install.

Your drop bank may be constructed in such a way that it is very difficult to remove the further in you go. My advice would be to remove each target and spring, then replace from the center inwards.

Be careful not to lose any springs! They like to fly sometimes.

I haven't rebuilt Gottlieb drops for a while, so I'm sure someone else will chime in and say I've said the wrong thing.

I will say it is fairly simple once you get started.

Good luck!

#4 5 years ago

^^yes, great info. There for ya' goldenboy232.

To add:
Another great 'trick' Steve Young showed me is to take a length of coat hangar a little longer than the bank. As you pull the rod out that runs thru the targets, follow right behind w/the coat hangar wire. That way all stays in place and then you can do one at a time w/out parts flying all over! : ) as you pull coat hangar out, follow thru w/the rod that you took out.

Great time to clean all switches also.

Patience is key. The first time is usually a bit tedious. My first time changing drop targets was on a Dimension. 20 drop targets...great way to learn. ; ) The more you do the Easier/faster you will be.

Enjoy!

#5 5 years ago

The best and simplest method for replacing targets.

http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/jjpf.htm

Just scroll down to the part about the drop targets. I've used this on several drop target games. I use an angle grinder rather than a Dremel. If you're good with an angle grinder and careful, it's a simple job to cut out the metal.

Gottlieb changed their design on System 1 games to this type of design so cutting on the metal only is necessary on EM games.

#6 5 years ago

If you're going to replace all the targets at once, there's no need to butcher the metal frame. (Not really needed for replacing one either.) Ugh.

#7 5 years ago

Thanks, guys. Yes, I plan to just buy 10 new targets of the correct design(s) and reinstall all at one time.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

If you're going to replace all the targets at once, there's no need to butcher the metal frame. (Not really needed for replacing one either.) Ugh.

I don't see it as butchering it at all. It's a simple process and makes any subsequent replacements extremely simple. And as I said, Gottlieb changed their design to what Clay's mod is.

Cutting out a few pieces of unneeded metal certainly doesn't equal butchering the frame to me. And once the back plate is reinstalled you never see the cut anyway.

#9 5 years ago

I'm not a fan of this mod either, but to each their own. Removing the bottom plate isn't that irritating to me.

#10 5 years ago

take back plate off un hook the two springs pull out target use a coat hanger and long nose pliers
then the same way you take it out put it back easy

#11 5 years ago

Given the age, I would strip them down totally, clean & re-assemble with new springs & targets.
Old dried grease needs to be removed & only once they are all apart you can easily see what is worn.
As a total newbie on these, I did all four sets on my High hand & it was no big deal.

#12 5 years ago

I just tore apart my FD drop target assemblies and here are a few tips that may or may not be mentioned.

1. For ease, remove the drop target assembly from the game. This is going to entail desoldering wires to two coils (4 wires), the series switches (3 wires), the 10 point switch behind the bank (2 wires) and series scoring switches (2 wires). Mark the wires before desoldering. The switch that senses the horseshoe is attached with two screws so that comes right off. Be careful as there is a spring steel flap behind.

2. For the 4 yellow cowboy targets, there are 4 wire U-shaped pieces attached to the top of the bank. These are connected to one of the coils on the drop bank that will knock the 4 yellow targets down when you complete both banks and it resets so you can just shoot the black horseshoe targets. If you remove these to clean they are a PITA to get back just right. Too far forward and the yellow drops won't reset properly. Too far back and they won't knock the targets down after you've completed both banks and they reset. Just an FYI as I have to remove one of my banks and adjust 3 of them.

I would highly recommend removing the banks from the game. These GTB drops are very hard to replace in the game with the two springs. I made a spring installation tool from a paperclip and with needle nosed pliers made a small hook on one end. You won't get the springs back on with your fingers.

#13 5 years ago

i'd take it out of the game too... although when i did the one on my jacks open, i unscrewed all the switches from the frame (rather than desoldering them).... dunno if thats an option on fd or not...

Quoted from dasvis:

Given the age, I would strip them down totally, clean & re-assemble with new springs & targets.
Old dried grease needs to be removed & only once they are all apart you can easily see what is worn.
As a total newbie on these, I did all four sets on my High hand & it was no big deal.

yea i'd do the same thing... do it right once, and never worry about it again (other than if you break a target)... i'd also replace any worn triggers as long as it is apart...

although i'll admit it took me a long time to do it... if i had done a better job of following my pictures, it wouldn't have taken as long, because i wouldn't have had to backtrack a few times along the way...

#14 5 years ago

Yes. no need to desolder, just unscrew the switches. I got some proper sized nuts & used them on the switch stacks to keep them together once apart.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-you-dont-use-wd40-on-drop-targets

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

I made a spring installation tool from a paperclip and with needle nosed pliers made a small hook on one end.

I use something similar to this:
http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/jonard-m-130-sx-8-push-pull-spring-tool/p/419-611

pushpull.jpg

#16 5 years ago

Yeah that would work too, but I'm a cheap ass bastard.

#17 5 years ago

Yes, a spring hook tool is marvelous when working on the drop target assemblies. Makes it quick work too.

No need to unsolder any wires; just remove the mounting screws. Note that there are typically 2, sometimes 3 different lengths, but they're easy to remember. The taller 'series' switch stack uses the longer screws; the shorter switch behind the rings uses the shorter screws, and the target switches use the medium length. I just take them all out and place in a pile.

Also check the 'triggers' for wear. This is the metal arm that lifts the drop targets for reset. After a lot of use, they can develop notches where the reset bar hits them. If worn down too much, then the targets don't like to reset as reliably. PBR sells new ones, and the time to replace them is when replacing the targets.

And as noted above, also a good time to degrease and clean up the brackets.

Also clean the target switch blades and add a touch of SuperLube. They'll have a dried gunk skid mark on them where the trigger tips slide up and down. Good to get those done while the assembly is out of the game being rebuilt.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Yes, a spring hook tool is marvelous when working on the drop target assemblies. Makes it quick work too.
No need to unsolder any wires; just remove the mounting screws. Note that there are typically 2, sometimes 3 different lengths, but they're easy to remember. The taller 'series' switch stack uses the longer screws; the shorter switch behind the rings uses the shorter screws, and the target switches use the medium length. I just take them all out and place in a pile.
Also check the 'triggers' for wear. This is the metal arm that lifts the drop targets for reset. After a lot of use, they can develop notches where the reset bar hits them. If worn down too much, then the targets don't like to reset as reliably. PBR sells new ones, and the time to replace them is when replacing the targets.
And as noted above, also a good time to degrease and clean up the brackets.
Also clean the target switch blades and add a touch of SuperLube. They'll have a dried gunk skid mark on them where the trigger tips slide up and down. Good to get those down while the assembly is out of the game being rebuilt.

Man, it's no wonder we confuse new people on here. For instance, Jim Palson's guide linked above recommends no lube on the assembly at all. I've never really encountered much if any gunked up lube on target banks. Dirt, yes, but not gunked up grease like a stepper unit can have.

All of us have different ways of doing it and we all chime in and then the poor noob ends up confused as hell.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I've never really encountered much if any gunked up lube on target banks.

Not on the bank itself, on the underside of the switch blades where the trigger rides. There will be a black skid mark there.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Not on the bank itself, on the underside of the switch blades where the trigger rides. There will be a black skid mark there.

Yeah, I understand that.

I'm just kind of hesitant to use much lube in a game in any place. Not because of it gunking up, the new lubes won't do that, but because it attracts all the switch dust and other grime that occurs in an EM. Some people like to lube spoon switches. When you see the collection of grime in a spoon switch it kind of dissuades you from doing that.

I've done it on steppers on the rivets, but for the most part I don't use much grease on a game if I can avoid it.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Not on the bank itself, on the underside of the switch blades where the trigger rides. There will be a black skid mark there.

yea, i use just a tiny amount there... TINY...

i futzed with switch gaps forever trying to get them to drop reliably... a TAD of superlube in that spot did the trick...

#22 5 years ago

also it should be noted there is no need to desolder the coil either, just release it from it's mount...

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

also it should be noted there is no need to desolder the coil either, just release it from it's mount...

Yeah I guess I should have mentioned that I was doing a playfield swap and didn't want to drag two 3lb drop banks over to the new pf. I desoldered mine so I could work on the bench, adjust and clean the switches there with the switches on the banks. You can definitely remove the switches and coils from the bank.

2015-03-07 16.30.42.jpg

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Yeah I guess I should have mentioned that I was doing a playfield swap and didn't want to drag two 3lb drop banks over to the new pf. I desoldered mine so I could work on the bench, adjust and clean the switches there with the switches on the banks. You can definitely remove the switches and coils from the bank.
2015-03-07 16.30.42.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

that's understandable... i wouldn't want to do that either...

REAL nice looking pf there...

#25 5 years ago

Yes, per what EMsInKC said, consider me somewhat confused.

#26 5 years ago

That playfield is sweet! If I designed a pin I'd love to leave some empty wood like the EMs did, it's such a beautiful look.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Yeah I guess I should have mentioned that I was doing a playfield swap and didn't want to drag two 3lb drop banks over to the new pf. I desoldered mine so I could work on the bench, adjust and clean the switches there with the switches on the banks. You can definitely remove the switches and coils from the bank.
2015-03-07 16.30.42.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Is this an HSA restoration? Looks like it.

#28 5 years ago

It's a Wade Krause playfield that I just finished swapping in last weekend. Had the playfield almost 2 years and finally got around to it.

https://pinballplayfields.wordpress.com/

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Yeah that would work too, but I'm a cheap ass bastard.

Me too, but my laziness always trumps my cheapness.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I'm just kind of hesitant to use much lube in a game in any place.

I'm with you there! The exception being steppers, as you say.

Cleaned too much gunk to sacrifice my sanity.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

It's a Wade Krause playfield that I just finished swapping in last weekend. Had the playfield almost 2 years and finally got around to it.
https://pinballplayfields.wordpress.com/

Great looking playfield. Unfortunately Wade is pretty unlikely to ever do a playfield for any game I own. Really, only my Top Card needs one and that's probably going to be an HSA restore for me. Top Card playfields just didn't wear well for some reason.

How long did the swap take you? That's one thing I've never done. But if I get this playfield restored I'll be doing one.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

How long did the swap take you? That's one thing I've never done. But if I get this playfield restored I'll be doing one.

I'm going to guess 40 hours. 3 weekends and a few hours each night. Top side tear down was 1/2 hour. Removing staples, screws, assemblies (drop target banks) and cleaning everything is the longest. Moving the wiring harness and reattaching everything just took a weekend. Topside reinstall was a few hours...play testing is still on-going.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

I'm going to guess 40 hours. 3 weekends and a few hours each night. Top side tear down was 1/2 hour. Removing staples, screws, assemblies (drop target banks) and cleaning everything is the longest. Moving the wiring harness and reattaching everything just took a weekend. Topside reinstall was a few hours...play testing is still on-going.

LOL, well, this would be third in my restoration queue so I've got time, hell, by the time I get to it I'll probably be retired and have the time to do it.

I've already got some of the components off the current playfield so I guess I have a start on it.

#34 5 years ago

take a gazillion pictures first

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Yes, per what EMsInKC said, consider me somewhat confused.

understandable... here is what i would do if i was you....

important edit: take pictures from every angle every step of the way...

- remove the pf from the game...

- unscrew the switches from the frame... i just wrapped a piece of painters tape around them to keep them together, or you can use nuts, or if you are like dirtflipper and can put together an entire pinball machine blindfolded, just toss them aside...

- release the coil from the frame...

- unscrew the bank from the game, and lift off....

- follow these instructions on how to disassemble and reassemble... replace any triggers that even look like they are worn, they are cheap, and you don't want to do this twice to save a buck... i'd also replace the springs, others will feel differently about this...

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Drop_Targets

do the complete disassembly and clean everything...

- i (and others) apply a tiny amount of superlube to the trigger switch to allow it to glide easier... others feel differently...

- put it back in the machine, re-attach everything, test... adjust switches if needed...

3 years later
#36 1 year ago

I stumbled across this thread when trying to replace a drop target on my El Dorado pin. Here's the write-up that I did if it helps anyone else:

Replacing a drop target

#37 1 year ago

Here's Todd's video.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
From: € 15.00
Lighting - Interactive
TheDudeMods
$ 4.49
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 60.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RobTune
From: $ 3.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 15.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 79.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 6,299.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 275.00
$ 12.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 86.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
COINTAKER.COM
$ 79.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 29.50
Playfield - Plastics
Pinball Haus
$ 25.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Game Room Info Shop
$ 249.00
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 239.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 85.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 58.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
From: $ 50.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Art Prints
From: $ 15.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Meph's Mods
$ 25.00
Cabinet Parts
Habos Arcade
$ 239.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 34.99
Cleaner
Pinball Pro
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 9.99
Cabinet - Other
Bent Mods
$ 18.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside