(Topic ID: 244425)

EBDLE Lamp problem

By PinWiz1969

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 35 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Lamp_Socket_Controlled.jpg
A3668F75-13E6-46E3-BDA2-6E76D108F2D3 (resized).jpeg
1A0B5999-3C5D-4F68-B5D1-9C9B7DC71764 (resized).jpeg
17D6ECA9-D167-4DA8-AF1B-DB4E45C15DAF (resized).jpeg
EA44A6B5-CD7D-4B54-BD48-4DC69888FEA5 (resized).jpeg
PinSide_Delete_Picture.jpg
2551719B-6B7E-4488-84D4-5D4D49CBDFD0 (resized).jpeg
BE71521D-A83D-448C-8868-084CD3C38397 (resized).jpeg
#1 4 years ago

Hey guys. I’m stumped. I have an EBDLE that none of the lamps that run off of the auxiliary lamp driver board are working. It’s not the board as I took a board out of a working game, and I have the same issue. Voltages are all good on the ALB.
I checked for broken wires, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Is it possible it could be a solenoid expander issue?

#2 4 years ago

Common problem is the ground connection at the Aux Lamp Driver Board (ALDB).
When you measure power on that board be sure to connect your black multi-meter lead on TP2 of the ALDB. If you don't measure 5V at TP1 of the ALDB then check the ground crimp at pin 15 of the J1 connector on that board.

If it's ok, then the next likely issue is you have a bad connection on the lamp strobe #2 signal. It comes from the MPU board at J1 pin 8 and goes to the ALDB at J1 pin 3.

Quoted from PinWiz1969:

Is it possible it could be a solenoid expander issue?

Nope, that would affect solenoids only, not lamps.

#3 4 years ago

Thanks for the reply Quench!

The 5V did come from leads on TP1 and TP2. The ground wire however is attached at pin 14 as pin 15 had previously burnt. Schematics show 13, 14, and 15 as ground.

I will check the MPU J1 pin 8.

#4 4 years ago

Also the one ground pin (14) is not enough, you should add at least one more ground wire to the other two pins, or if your board definitely grounds to its bracket like my ‘81 EBD, add one there. That single ground pin from the factory is always cooked to heck.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Also the one ground pin (14) is not enough, you should add at least one more ground wire to the other two pins, or if your board definitely grounds to its bracket like my ‘81 EBD, add one there. That single ground pin from the factory is always cooked to heck.

I 100% agree with this and I do the same thing by also wiring the ground wire to one of the other ground pins to share the load.

1 month later
#6 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

If it's ok, then the next likely issue is you have a bad connection on the lamp strobe #2 signal. It comes from the MPU board at J1 pin 8 and goes to the ALDB at J1 pin 3.
Nope, that would affect solenoids only, not lamps.

Ok Quench, I finally got to check this (my game is at a friends place.) I do not have continuity between J1 pin 8 of the MPU to J1 Pin 3 of the ALDB. I’m guessing this is not a direct connection as the wire colours are different?

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

Ok Quench, I finally got to check this (my game is at a friends place.) I do not have continuity between J1 pin 8 of the MPU to J1 Pin 3 of the ALDB. I’m guessing this is not a direct connection as the wire colours are different?

I don't have the LE schematic, but the first release EBD schematic lists it as a solid grey wire from MPU board to Aux lamp driver board.

Note, pin 1 is at the top of the connectors of the MPU board, meanwhile pin 1 is on the bottom of the connectors of the aux lamp driver board just to make things confusing..

#8 4 years ago

Yes lol, I see that now. Ok continuity is good between the two. What else should I check for?

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

What else should I check for?

Have you got a logic probe? Need to next check if you're getting active signals to the logic chips on the board and if they're responding accordingly.

BTW, can you post some clear high res pictures of the board in case there's something obvious we might notice?

#10 4 years ago

Just so we’re on the same page here. I tried a good known working ALDB from a Medusa, same issue. I also tried an Alltek MPU in it, same issue. My guess would be connectors or wiring.

#11 4 years ago

Ok, thanks for the reminder of what's been done.

Quoted from PinWiz1969:

Ok continuity is good between the two.

How are you checking continuity of that wire from J1 pin 8 of the MPU to J1 Pin 3 of the ALDB? If you're checking from wire connection to wire connection, it doesn't tell you if the terminals are making contact with the pin headers so you really need to test beyond them and check from board to board. i.e.
Resistor R1 on the ALDB to resistor R79 (Bally MPU board) or R40 (Alltek board). When you measure from the side of the resistors going to the pin headers at each board, you should read zero ohms to verify you have good connectivity of the signal from board to board.
Otherwise if you do happen to have a logic probe, check that you're getting activity at pin 9 of U1 on the ALDB.

#12 4 years ago

Continuity was checked on the bottom side of both boards. I do have a logic probe, but have to do some research on how to use it.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

I do have a logic probe, but have to do some research on how to use it.

Cool, ok hookup power to the logic probe - i.e. the black logic probe lead to TP2 (Gnd) and the red logic probe lead to TP1 (+5V) respectively on the ALDB.

Then touch the probe tip on pins 9, 4, 5 and 12 of U1 of the ALDB. Lets see if the control signals from the MPU board are reaching the board.
If you can tell us what the logic probe LEDs indicate at each pin and also provide a photo of your logic probe, we can determine what the probe is telling you.

2 months later
#14 4 years ago

I think I found the problem. I’m going to repin this first, and see what happens. This plug is J4 of the regular lamp driver. The burned wire is the ground feeding the ALDB. Fingers crossed!

BE71521D-A83D-448C-8868-084CD3C38397 (resized).jpegBE71521D-A83D-448C-8868-084CD3C38397 (resized).jpeg
#15 4 years ago

Don't forget to carry out @frenchmarky's suggestion in post#4 - i.e add a loop wire from the white-black wire at connector J1 pin 15 to pin 14 at the aux lamp driver board.

#16 4 years ago

Repinned that connector, and added the loop on J1 for the ground. Would you believe that didn’t fix it!

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Cool, ok hookup power to the logic probe - i.e. the black logic probe lead to TP2 (Gnd) and the red logic probe lead to TP1 (+5V) respectively on the ALDB.

What settings do I choose on the logic probe to test those pins?

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

What settings do I choose on the logic probe to test those pins?

If there's a "TTL/CMOS" switch, set it to TTL and if there's a "Pulse/Memory" switch, set it to Pulse.
Otherwise post a picture of it so we can see what settings it has.

#19 4 years ago

I tapped on a few other pics. I don’t even know how it happened, and it won’t let me delete them, but that’s my 90 year old grandmother on the right, and her 86 year old sister.
2551719B-6B7E-4488-84D4-5D4D49CBDFD0 (resized).jpeg2551719B-6B7E-4488-84D4-5D4D49CBDFD0 (resized).jpeg

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

I tapped on a few other pics. I don’t even know how it happened, and it won’t let me delete them, but that’s my 90 year old grandmother on the right, and her 86 year old sister.

Put both logic probe switches opposite to how they're pictured.

To delete pictures, edit your post, hover over the thumbnail attachment and click on the "X".

PinSide_Delete_Picture.jpgPinSide_Delete_Picture.jpg

#21 4 years ago

I took a picture for each pin. Probe set to cmos and pulse.

17D6ECA9-D167-4DA8-AF1B-DB4E45C15DAF (resized).jpeg17D6ECA9-D167-4DA8-AF1B-DB4E45C15DAF (resized).jpegEA44A6B5-CD7D-4B54-BD48-4DC69888FEA5 (resized).jpegEA44A6B5-CD7D-4B54-BD48-4DC69888FEA5 (resized).jpeg1A0B5999-3C5D-4F68-B5D1-9C9B7DC71764 (resized).jpeg1A0B5999-3C5D-4F68-B5D1-9C9B7DC71764 (resized).jpegA3668F75-13E6-46E3-BDA2-6E76D108F2D3 (resized).jpegA3668F75-13E6-46E3-BDA2-6E76D108F2D3 (resized).jpeg
#22 4 years ago

Set the logic probe to TTL. Do the indicator results change? You are getting activity to all the required pins though.

Do me a favor, at the aux lamp driver board, hook up a jumper lead to test point TP2 and touch the other end of the jumper on the metal tab side of any of the SCRs on the aux lamp driver board. Does doing this illuminate any playfield lamps?
For example if you ground the metal side of the Q1 SCR, the left lane 10k lamp should light, does it?
Grounding the metal tab of Q14 should light the 112k bonus lamp.

#23 4 years ago

Ok, this just gets more and more strange.
Logic probe shows same readings on TTL.
Grounding out SCR’s does nothing. This has to be wiring, but where?

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

Grounding out SCR’s does nothing. This has to be wiring, but where?

Just for your sanity, can you try the grounding SCR test on your main lamp driver board? i.e. if you ground the metal tab side of the Q8 SCR on the main lamp driver board, the #13 ball lamp in the rack should light.

Can you post a picture of the back of the ALDB? It doesn't have any burnt ground traces does it?

The bare braid wire running to all the feature lamp sockets on the playfield is 6.5V power. The tip if the lamp sockets is grounded by the lamp driver board to illuminate the lamp. So try grounding the tip of one of those ALDB driven lamps such as the left lane 10k, 30k and 50k lamps. Do they light?

Lamp_Socket_Controlled.jpgLamp_Socket_Controlled.jpg

#25 4 years ago

There is definitely nothing wrong with any board. Remember I’ve replaced the MPU and main lamp driver with allteks, and put in a known working ALDB. Now J1 pin 15 on the ALDB was burned, and the wire was switched to pin 14. I’ve repinned the connector and looped pin 14 and 15 together.

My thinking here is I have to trace that white with black trace wire all over the game because somewhere it’s burned there too. I think that’s my next step. I will ground out a few sockets though and report back.

I thank you very much Quench for all your help. This one has definitely stumped me.

#26 4 years ago

Ok grounding the tip lug makes the lamp light up. I tried multiple lamps, and they all worked.

#27 4 years ago

Ok, using the same ground point location you just tested with, touch the other end of your wire on the metal tab on some ALDB SCRs.

#29 4 years ago

What about grounding a SCR on the main lamp board? Eg Q8 for the #13 ball lamp in the rack.

It almost sounds like the playfield block connector to the backbox that ends up at the ALDB is disconnected.

#30 4 years ago

I have grounded one of the regular lamp driver scr’s, and actually from the ground tp of the ALDB!

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

I have grounded one of the regular lamp driver scr’s, and actually from the ground tp of the ALDB!

And the lamp worked?

The SCRs on both lamp driver boards basically complete the ground circuit to the lamps.
You've grounded the lamp sockets and the lamps illuminate.
You've grounded the metal tabs of the SCRs which connect directly to the lamp sockets and they didn't illuminate.

So it sounds like an intermediate block connector that goes to the ALDB is disconnected between the playfield and the backbox.

1 month later
#32 4 years ago

There are no connectors in between the backbox and the playfield. It seems like there is a connector, which has this wire that burned on a few connectors in the head that directly plugs into the power supply, which is a new board, but I got the game with this problem. So I'm not even sure if this new PS board might be the problem. I wouldn't think so, but you never know.

#33 4 years ago

have you check the 2 fuse holders under the playfield . i had a problem on the controlled lighting on an LE and it was bad fuse holder .

Denis

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from steamfitter:

have you check the 2 fuse holders under the playfield . i had a problem on the controlled lighting on an LE and it was bad fuse holder .
Denis

That was a fantastic suggestion Denis. I went ahead and changed the block of three fuse holders, and still nothing. I’m really getting frustrated with this problem. Later this week I am borrowing a working ALDB. I’m even going to bring mine to him so it can be tested the other way. This has to be a wiring issue, but I can’t find it!!

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

It seems like there is a connector, which has this wire that burned on a few connectors in the head that directly plugs into the power supply

Can you post some clear pictures of the burned wires on the connectors?

The two orange/red wire connectors on the ALDB (J2 and J3) running to the playfield lamps have black protectors covering the connector wiring ends. Slide those black covers up or down to expose the connector wire terminals. What happens when you ground some of those metal terminals? Do their respective lamps on the playfield illuminate? i.e. grounding the:
J2 pin 4 (Red-White wire) should illuminate the 70k left lane lamp
J2 pin 11 (Red-Black wire) should illuminate the Specials left lane lamp
J3 pin 3 (Blue wire) should illuminate the 50k Inlane drop target lane lamp
J2 pin 15 (Red-Green wire) should illuminate the Extra Ball left lane lamp

If the lamps illuminate then you need to find out why ground isn't reaching the common "cathode" leg to all the SCRs on the ALDB.
If the lamps don't light at those two connectors terminals, then ground the end tab of those particular lamps at the lamp sockets to make sure the lamps are working. Presuming lamps are good, then find out where you have a break in the wiring between the lamp sockets on the playfield and those two connectors on the ALDB.

Make sure where ever you connect to ground actually has good continuity to ground.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 119.95
Boards
Allteksystems
 
$ 10.00
$ 18.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 8.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 33.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 30.00
Lighting - Led
Pinballrom
 
$ 5.95
Playfield - Protection
The Pinball Scientist
 
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ebdle-lamp-problem and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.